VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji, This refers to your views as What's the significance of this analysis? It is already known that ਗੁਰੁ= ਗੁਰੂ because these are same words Well it is not so that is a point of significance . The word ਗੁਰੁ is SINGULAR with matra of Aukad under letter R .This word is reference for Single Number and is Proper /Common Noun The word ਗੁਰby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji, The analysis what Is presented is very useful in understanding the concept of GuR JOTi in Gurbanee. It is GuR JOTi which is either SINGULAR or PLURAL. Is it so that in Gurbanee there are all words as SINGULAR only and No PLURAL Words.? My understanding is that there are SINGULAR words(in Both genders) and Corresponding PLURAL words also in Gurbanee.which make theby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
For proper and correct understanding of Gurbanee one is required to have clear understanding about the grammar of the word ਗੁਰੂ The word ਗੁਰੂ is a SANSKRIT word and in the grammar of SANSKRIT this word is indicated as NOUN DWEE VACHAN that is Dual Number. We generally make reference of Mahan Kosh for meanings of Gurbanee words.One can see that in MAHANKOSH the meaningsby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
YEs ,It is true that Bhai Gurdas ji Di Vaaran provide information relevent to Gurbanee understanding. This is equally true that these are being overlooked and that is why there is all variations in correct interpretation of Gurbanee. There ae 40 Vaars Bhai Gurdas ji .The language of these vaars is almost similat to that in SGGS ji as far as grammar is concerned.So one should be well familiaby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBIR JEE, It would be interesting to understand that in Gurbanee the NOUN words are classified as SINGULAR or PLURAL as per Genders as MASCULINE or FEMININE. Therfore it would be important first to understand this in context of KARTA KARAK. For this KARAK the word ਗੁਰੁ is SINGULAR as MASCULINE GENDER. What should be the PLURAL as MASCULINE GENDER word for ਗੁਰੁby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji, You will remember about COLLECTIVE NOUN reference by me in some of my earlier post. Previously also I have clarified how a Plural Word can be Considered as SINGULAR.with exceptions. Can you pl give me the understanding of the grammar of the word ਗੁਰ as KARTA KARAK. This understanding is "A" for understanding of Gurbanee grammar. One should understand the diffby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
ਹਰਿ ਹਮਰਾ ਹਮ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਦਾਸੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਨਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੧੪॥੨੧॥ It is imprtant to understand the grammar of the word ਗੁਰੂ to understand the relationship between the words ਗੁਰੂ -ਗੁਰੁ-ਗੁਰ. The word ਗੁਰੂ is SINGULAR ,DUAL NUMBER and this word therefore represby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
PREMABHAKTI Ji, You are right for this consideration as nd Proff Ji has placed this "ਗੁਰ" in IK VACHAN coloumn in his book (at pp 63 But this is an exceptional situation where word ਗੁਰ being Plural is to be considered as SINGULAR as ਗੁਰੁ but Masculine Gender..This is an exception to the Rule of general consideration as applicable to KARTA KARAK. Burt the mosby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji, Here is Quote from Gurbanee as ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੇ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 490} I would request you give understanding ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਇਆ accordinby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji, One can see that as per Gurbanee grammar any NOUN word without matra of Aukad is always PLURAL .This is irrespective of consideration of Gender This Rule is for NOUN words as per matra of Aukad and Dulakad. The word ਗੁਰ as such is always PLURAL but it can be considered as .SINGULAR "ਗੁਰੁ only in context of being used with PROPOSITIONS. This is an excby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
PREMABHAKATI Ji, Well I agree with you about your knowledge of Noun words as per Genders. But these Gender NOUN words are basically classified as per NUMBER also as SINGULAR(EK VACHAN) SINGULAR (DWEE VACHAN) and PLURAL (BAHU VACHAN) You can also notice that Prof Sahib Singhs Viyakaran Book there is a chart of NOUN Words (Masculine Gender) as SINGULAR and PLURAL pp62 of the book Gby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER KULBEER SINGH Ji, If one understand s the grammar of the words with a matra of AUKAD under last letter like the word ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ any such word is to be considered as NOUN.(EK VACHAN) that is SINGULAR. In context of this grammar the same word without matra of Aukad like ਏਕੰਕਾਰ is essentially a NOUN WORD (BAHU VACHAN) that is PLURAL for its SINGULAR WORD. . Thisby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
ਏਕੰਕਾਰ One can see that the word ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ is SINGULAR SINGLE NUMBER and the word ਏਕੰਕਾਰ is PLURAL of ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ and refers to MANY NUMBERS. One can also observe in Gurbanee that ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ is refered as GuRu/Prabhu and therefore the word ਏਕੰਕਾਰ is accordingly GuR./Prabh So one can understand in above context whby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
One can give a thinking to a Quote from Gurbanee as ਥਿਤੀ ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਿਰਜਨਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ The message is very clear aboutby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
One can see the grammar of the words asਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ Here the word ਸਬਦੁ is SINGULAR Single Numbe The word ਗੁਰੂ is also SINGULAR although with matra of Dulaekad. Thus in Gurbanee one gets to know that there are two SINGULAR words one with the matra of AUkad and other with Matra of Dulaekad. The word matra of Aukad is SINGULAR for SINGLE Number The word matrby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
It can be observed that this word ਗੁਰੁ is very important in the whole of Gurbanee. My understanding is that this word ਗੁਰੁ should be considered as the " KEY WORD" for the understanding of the whole Gurbanee. This word ਗੁਰੁ is important from the point of view that it has some relation with the base Gurbanee word GuROO and other word GuR.. It has been observed thaby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
One can give a thought to a Sabad about controlling of 5 vices from Gurbanee as ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਚਉਪਦੇ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨ ਦੁਖ ਭੰਜਨ ਸ੍ਵਾਮੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੇ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਪਰਾਧ ਮਿਟੇ ਖਿਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਜਾਂ ਗੁਰby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
SINGHNI Ji, I find every post here very informative and very useful for understanding. I can only add a little to the subject under discussion. I refer to the content of your message as It depends on what our definition of manmukh is..... I dont understand how we can define anybody as manmukhs... What is your definition of manmukh.. I may contribute by telling that in Gurbanee MUNMUKH aby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
For SINGULAR WORD being common for both geders there is a Quote from Gurbanee as ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ One can see that the word ਗੁਰੁ is SINGULAR in Masculine Gender for the references ਈਸਰੁ, and ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ and The same word ਗੁਰੁ is SINGULAR in Feminineby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
VEER SUKHDEEP SINGH JI, Thanks for your message.I just mentioned what I felt as a Gursikh for another Gursikh. Here I find that sharing of views is always a pleasant experience. Sometimes there may be divergent differences in views these should also be viewed in a positive manner. I am an ordinary Gursikh connected with Gurbanee for the past 40 years and I feel sharing what I have understooby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
RSINGH Ji, Yes ,I think DEER here is a metaphor for action of attraction under the influence of some inherent WEAKNESS . The word MOREE again a metaphor for some specific WEAKNESS. Bhul Chuk Maaf Daas Prakash.s.baggaby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
ਗੁਰੁ ਜਹਾਜੁ ਖੇਵਟੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਤਰਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ Gurbanee words have very special pattern of grammar of Words.When one talks of grammar of words then there is always a mentiong of Gender of words. One can see that all the Noun words appear in a definite pattern.It is important to understand the significance of gender of Gurbanby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
RSINGH Ji, Really very interesting to understand this. Having gone thru the complete Sabad my understanding is that the meaning of the tuks is related to some WEAKNESS OF DEER. As I have understood the meaning in the following way. Just as DEER due to weakness (MOREE) is entangled silently(CHOREE) to a particular NAAD. GuRu has shown me similar way for getting entangled with ANHADby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
SUKHDEEP SINGH Ji, You have presented your prejudiced views without answering my question as If you can clarify me what is being refered as GOD in Gurbanee then I may be able to give a better answer to your question. You have not clarified what is GOD in Gurbanee? I am of the view that there is no such reference that can be refered as GOD in Gurbanee. I have used your words to explaiby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
SUKHDEEP SINGH Ji, If you can clarify me what is being refered as GOD in Gurbanee then I may be able to give a better answer to your question.. I mentioned about the gender of the words as per matra of Aukad as we generally understand the words in this fashion only. You can see I appreciate your views that CREATOR in Gurbanee is Masculine as well as Feminine Why? Because in Gurbanee sucby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
Life is a continueing flow of CREATORs will.One is not required to know or understand this as such an attempt would amount to deviate from a very strong message from Gurbanee as ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ Bhul Chuk Maaf Daasby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
SUKHDEEP SINGH Ji, While I appreciate your views I disagree on several points due to following considerations 1 One can see that the use of the word GOD in context of any reference in Gurbanee is own ASSUMPTION. And by making assumptions I think it is not possible to be true to the understanding of Gurbanee. So one should always consider the actual words from within Gurbanee for correctby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
There is general prevailing understanding that there is ONE CREATOR and is to be known as GOD in context of Western Concept or PARMATAMAA in context of Eastern concept. Surprisingly the message of Gurbanee for CREATOR are being understood thru words which are not the contents of Gurbanee at all. Therefore one should understand CREATOR considering the references from within Gurbanee only.by prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
One can give a thinking to the message from Gurbanee as ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਹਾ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਹਮਰੀ ਬੇਦਨਿ ਤੂ ਜਾਨਤਾ ਸਾਹਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਚੁ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਹਾ ਤੇਰby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum
MB SINGH Ji, Your point that ਹਦੂਰਿ is adjective of ਹਦੀਸਾ; seems to be very appropriate. I also went thru the History of Hadith and you are right . So in this context the word ਹਦੀਸਾ; can be NOUN and should be SINGULAR as my understanding goes. Bhul Chuk Maaf Daas Prakash.S.Baggaby prakash.s.bagga - Gurmat Discussion Forum