gurmat kamai in grisht jeevan

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I only talk down on titles like " Babe" which are more suitable for couples of Kaam then suitable for respectful Gursikh couples.

Thats funny. I agree that naam abhiyaasi gursikhs wont use words like "baby" etc. In delhi, many urban sikhs call their wife " jaanu", hahahaha and then take her out to eat gol gappas and a movie show.

Bhain jee 1kaur does have a valid point when she says that in order to fully understand the problems of the Gristhees (householders), one should be a Gristhee (married). This has reminded me of the great debate that took place about 1200-1300 years ago between Shankracharya and Mandan Mishra. Mandan Mishra was a Vedic ritualistic whereas Shankracharya believed that Gyaan was the source of salvation. Shankracharya was an Advaitin (like our modern day Sikh sants, Alas!). He challenged Mishra for a debate. The debate itself is highly interesting and nothing short of the famous debate that took place thousands of years ago between Nagarjana and King Milinda. Great concepts of philosophies are discussed in this debate.

Anyway, in the debate that went on for many days, the vetaran debater Mishra who was about 70 years old was defeated by the genius philosopher Shankracharya who was only about 30 years old at that time. Mishra's wife was acting as a judge of the debate. Before Shankracharya could declare himself to be the winner, Bharati (Mishra's wife) challenged Shankracharya for a debate arguing that she was the second half of her husband and until she was defeated, Shankracharya could not claim victory over Mishra.

She was much sharper than her husband and Shankracharya was having hard time refuting her claims but he was still winning the debate. Towards the end, she started the topic of Kaam and asked him a philosophical question about it. Shankracharya was a born celibate and when he attempted to answer the question on Kaam, he based it on philosophy he had learned. Bharati shot back saying that since he was a celibate and had no personal experience on Kaam, his response was not valid. Shankracharya insisted that since he was a celibate, though he did not have experience, he did have the right answers he had learned through reading. Bharati asked him to either accept defeat or give answers based on his experience. She said that how could a person who had no experience about Kaam, give deep philosophical answers on Kaam. Her point was valid and at this, Shankracharya requested for a break. He went into Samadhi and found out that a certain king was about to die. As the king died, he got out of his physical body and entered the body of the dying king. The king woke up free of disease because now it was Shankracharya who was occupying his body. There Shankracharya experienced Kaam through the body of the king and wrote a detailed commentary on Kaam which he had it sent to Bharati. Few days later, he came back to his original body (the king's body died) and when he came in front of Bharati, she conceded defeat.

So Bhain jee's point does seem valid that only a person who is married can really understand what Grishthee jeevan is and how to solve problems related to it. So the message of this post is - Veer Sukhdeep Singh jeeo, get married soon.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Waheguru ka Khalsa, Waheguru kee fateh ji..


Sangat jio,

I think that we are loosing the theme of the problem here... please do ardaas for us ...finally, we will ask Guru Sahib for guidance but will surely keep the advice from the sangat to make sure that every jeev in the family live comfortably..


jaNih ibrTa sBa mn kI h]ru iksu pih AaiK suNaeIA{ .

You know completely the condition of my mind; who else could I go to tell of it?


maufi jio...

Daas

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
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So the message of this post is -
> Veer Sukhdeep Singh jeeo, get married soon.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Haha Veer Ji you are right marriage is important- If we find someone with similar spiritual beliefs then marriage life will be a blessing because it would be an opportunity to do Bhagti with another atma, but at the same time everyone has different experiences and its not in everyones karma to get married.

Perhaps Im not the most qualified person on giving advice on marriage. My understanding of how marriage life should be conducted is through the teachings of Gurbani, writings of Bhai Gurdas Ji and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji. All mention Grishti Jeevan is to live a life as householder but remain detached. The belief that Husband and Wife are eternal soul mates is not something I agree with. In fact, the concept of eternal soul mates is as ludicrous as the Vedantic concept of the soul being annihilated during " mukhti".

My advice to the original poster was to not be attached to either wife or mother when making decisions; instead he should base his decisions within the light of Gurmat and Gurmat Rehat Marayada . Bhai Gurdas Ji who was not married has given us the advice on marriage life according to Gurmat. Bhai Sahib says

Kul Dharam Gursikh Sabh Maya Vich Udaas Rahayaaa

For this reason this why I believe a Gurmukh would live a householders life without being attached to a specific individual when making decisions.

I have to agree with Sukhdeep Singh Jee. I do not believe that spouse is soul mate. This concept looks all nice in poetry and all, but I do not agree with it. We have had numerous births in which we have had countless partners, so this whole thing about husband and wives being soul mate does not seem right. For a Sikh his soul mate is Vaheguru. As Gursikhs we are supposed to live a life of Gristhi Jeevan and should do our farz/duty to our relations, but at the same point in time we should be detached from worldly relations.

harinder_singh Wrote:
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>
> Thats funny. I agree that naam abhiyaasi gursikhs
> wont use words like "baby" etc. In delhi, many
> urban sikhs call their wife " jaanu", hahahaha and
> then take her out to eat gol gappas and a movie
> show.


Thats hilarious I did not know that Delhi Sikhs have become so Westernized . Its obvious they dont keep Bibek, but do these Singhs still bare a Sri Sahib?

HJ Singh Veer Ji- I agree for a Bibekee Singh/Singhni their soul mate is first and foremost Guru Sahib. Do not get me wrong there is nothing wrong with loving ones spouse. Guru Sahib has mentioned in GUrbani/Gurmat Rehat Maryada that a True Rehatvan Singh constantly loves his wife. If I was married I would treat my wife as my second best friend my first best friend would obviously be Guru Sahib. In addition, I would trust, never keep a secret, and give love ( not lust) to my life partner because without this type of relationship each spouse looks for love elsewhere and is more tended to look at other peoples spouses with an evil eye. But sometimes I feel people get love and attachment mixed up. Its possible to love someone, and to honor our martial duties without manmat attachments. Through attachment we too have a tendency to be controlled by other doots like lust . We cannot pick and follow some Hukums and then decide to neglect other Hukums this is only a sign of pure Haumi.

chota veer sukhdeep singh jee, you have caught me in quite a mood today, i apologize in advance if i am harsh. your repeated remarks about things you do not understand are making it difficult to keep my words to myself. and trust me, i try, with every post of yours, with every veiled insult you throw at me, i try, i do try.

but come on! you think delhi sikhs saying "jaanu" is western corruption? are you joking? delhi sikhs have just now become westernized? jaanu is a very old term of endearment, hundreds, maybe thousands of years old. certainly before the west found india. now you blame the west for this? why on earth do you live here if you think western culture t's such a bad influence on sikhi? surely indian culture, punjabi culture, is no better!
do you know nihangs call their horses "jaan bhai". now you'll say this is anti-gurmat westernization too?
when an elder gurmukh calls his singhnee mata jee, is this not a term of endearment? is this acceptable because it's not english? are only english endearments wrong? or is this also wrong?

it's essential to understand the difference between love/respect and attachment. clearly this is a confusing concept for unmarried singhs. what married gursikhs call their spouses is of no concern to kids. keep your own marriage as you like it, but please stop pointing fingers at things you know nothing about. this is a common theme in your posts, and it's annoying!

guru sahib's concept of ik jot doe murti (GURBANI, not poetry), is not the same as the hindu or western concept of "soul mate". it literally means ONE SOUL. not two souls destined to be together in the future. ONE soul. IK. just as everything is IK. one soul seeking waheguru together, through joined simran, joined paath, joined gursikhi jeevan. you have to get this hindu "soul mate" nonsense out of your head if you want to understand gurbani. ask a respected gurmukh what it means. i know you'll never believe a singhnee, especially not a white singhnee. so ask someone you DO respect. perhaps they can make you understand what a blessing guru sahib has given to the married couple.

i apologize to the sangat. i know i should not respond directly to one poster in this way. this is my weakness, my ego, my sin. please do ardaas that i am able to hold my tongue at his veiled insults and pointed comments in the future. because i can't seem to do it on my own.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

Penji please don't let your anger get the better of you. What daas has learnt is tolerance, you got to tolerate others views and you don't have to try and prove someone wrong etc all the time. Penji I assure you in life you will meet a lot of people that are against your views and you will also be against others people's views as well etc. Let it be.. The way I see it if I argue back I am wasting my breath and I could be using those swas to do simran.

Also I believe that sukhdeep veer is right about the jyot issue. But I will hopefully ask a brahgiani on this issue to confirm this for your. So hold on jee.