A consistent Amrit Vela

Bijla Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

My quote:

I beg to differ with your claim. It is not "Some people believe that any time you are engaged in serving Vaheguru through Naam or Gurbani, is Amritvela". It is the SGGS, our only Guru claims that.

You write:

Quote

When you disagree, it makes you liable to present evidence.

By liable you mean it is my duty. Of course it is my duty, as it is of every Sikh who is a learner, a seeker a student and that includes yourself. But, I fail to understand what is your claim I disagreed about. What I said above is that anytime can be the time to have this beautiful Amrit from SGGS, our only Guru.

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Are you implying that since Gurbani says one must engage in Naam Simran 24/7, it negates the concept of Amrit Vela or getting up early in the morning to do Simran?

Please read above. Any time means ANY TIME.:-)

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My question is simply to understand what you are trying to say. It is better to explain using Gurbani what you mean and why you disagree. A statement without any evidence lacks conclusion, rationality and is most likely fallacious.

To accuse some one of the above in bold is uncalled for and you are not only accusing me but the SGGS, our only Guru which is a shame.

I just searched the word AMRIT at Srigranth. org and found that it is mentioned 31 times. Now, it is up to you to read those Shabads and find out for yourself.

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So if you have grown tired of "Sikh Philosophy" forum and are looking for a new place to stir things up, might as well be honest and upfront about your viewpoint and then have a discussion.

It is funny to see how you love to jump to the conclusions. Shall I say that you are liable for that?

Your rationale is quite irrational by any standards. FYI, as a Sikh I participate in different forums in order to broaden my Sikhi horizons. It is my duty as a Sikh to do that. I joined this forum for the same reason. If I take your rationale that I am tired of "Sikh Philosophy" forum, then why would I mention it 2 times and indicate the threads regarding the discussion which are posted there? It makes no sense.

Are you insecure about yourself an in your Sikhi stance that you accuse me of stirring things up? It is hillarious to say the least.

It is a shame that you call yourself Sikh and accuse others of being dishonest without any proof rather than having an educational discussion to enhance everyone's Gurmat knowledge. Sad to say it is not a Sikhi trait but so be it.

Let's make knowledge our best friend rather than our worst enemy and that can only happen by asking questions, not by falsely accusing others. It is a duty of every Sikh.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh jeeo,

Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not? It does not matter what name you give to this time, the main thing is that a Sikh must wake up during early morning hours and engage in Sifat-Salaah of Vaheguru, through Naam-Gurmantr and Gurbani. You can call this time Amritvela, Prabhaat, Jhaalangay or Chauthah-Pehar etc. but you cannot deny the importance of this time in Gurmat.

Sure, any time when we are engaged in doing Sifat-Salaah of Vaheguru, that time is Amritmai but this does not negate the early morning hours of Bhagti.

Kulbir Singh

Tejwant singh ji you know how are interacting on this forum ? You say you want to learn and broaden your horizons and this and that and yet your tone and demeanor is that of arrogance! Maybe you think you need to follow gurbani only selectively ?
I shouldn't need to cite what gurbani says about about humility here.

YOu mentioned elsewhere that your child was 23 yrs old thus showing that you are not a young kid. You certainly know that when it comes to spirituality , humility is of utmost importance.
Guru Nanak Sahib nu parmeshwar di dargah ton Nau Nidh Naam Garibi bakhshish hoi si. Te garibi fa matlab nimaaney hon ton hai, ahankaar de abhaav ton hai.

And after saying certain things you even use smilies! And I say to myself wow! Seriously!!??

Why don't you clear your stand on getting up early? Do you believe in it or not ?
I personally do not keep the amrit vela, but I consider that as my personal shortcoming. I do not try to justify it.

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To accuse some one of the above in bold is uncalled for and you are not only accusing me but the SGGS, our only Guru which is a shame.

It wasn’t an accusation but a fact. A statement without any evidence cannot be taken as true. You presented no evidence from Gurbani to back up your claim. What’s most shameful is that you consider accusation on you as an accusation against Guru Sahib. A true Sikh shuns from such preposterous claims which are being made by modern day dehdharis.

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I just searched the word AMRIT at Srigranth. org and found that it is mentioned 31 times. Now, it is up to you to read those Shabads and find out for yourself.

Then it beats the whole point of discussion, doesn’t it? You did not have to come to this forum and start accusing others of being false when you could’ve studied these shabads on your own.

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Are you insecure about yourself an in your Sikhi stance that you accuse me of stirring things up?

The statement was conditional (If/Then). You need to study how these statements are used logically.

Where is your evidence that getting up early in the morning is not required? Doing Simran at any time doesn’t negate the requirement of doing it in the morning. I asked you because you made such a claim and perhaps you could enlighten us with your online searches.

Straight answers is a sign of intellect and humility. Going around in circles without giving clear answers is a sign of ego and one's pride about their knowledge. Second option is not what Gurmat gaadi raah is about.

when it is obvious someone is a hardcore missionary with perverted gurmat==>durmat ideology.....why was time in the first place?

engaging with such mentality is like expecting a stone to absorb water!

Kulrbir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote

Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not? It does not matter what name you give to this time, the main thing is that a Sikh must wake up during early morning hours and engage in Sifat-Salaah of Vaheguru, through Naam-Gurmantr and Gurbani.

Thanks to our visionary Guru Nanak and all the Nanaks who followed him, we have no Papacy, nor any clergy in Sikhi. As a result of that, the relationship becomes between the individual Sikh and Ik Ong Kaar through our only Guru, the SGGS. Hence, Sikhi is a journey of the individual and each of us carries our own Gurmat torch and only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at.

Sorry to disappoint you but the same goes for you and for everyone else. It is rather self serving, self-centered and egotistical on our part to even ask that to others. We should all stick to our individual relationships with The One. Many Sikhs work night shifts,grave yards etc etc. So, one should ask what is the time to immerse in Amrit (Amrit Vela) for them. I also personally know many Sikhs who get up at 2AM, parrot for sometime and then go off to sleep.

So, you will never find that out by asking me such a question. My relationship is between myself and Ik Ong Kaar as is yours. Having said that, I have been an early riser as far as I can remember and luckily, I never had to work night shifts nor grave yard shifts.

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You can call this time Amritvela, Prabhaat, Jhaalangay or Chauthah-Pehar etc. but you cannot deny the importance of this time in Gurmat.

You are not being honest here I am afraid which I am surprised about as it is coming from you. I never denied anything. Please show me a single post of mine where I denied that you accuse me of.

We all know that there are 8 pehars and we also know the day starts at 12AM. So, can you please tell me what duration of time Chauthah-pehar comes in based on that mathematically speaking? I would appreciate that.

But, all of us has the right to ask each other how we live Sikhi in our daily lives because Guru Nanak urged us to live a Truthful Living which is the duty of every Sikh.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

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Sorry to disappoint you but the same goes for you and for everyone else. It is rather self serving, self-centered and egotistical on our part to even ask that to others. We should all stick to our individual relationships with The One. Many Sikhs work night shifts,grave yards etc etc. So, one should ask what is the time to immerse in Amrit (Amrit Vela) for them. I also personally know many Sikhs who get up at 2AM, parrot for sometime and then go off to sleep.

So, you will never find that out by asking me such a question. My relationship is between myself and Ik Ong Kaar as is yours. Having said that, I have been an early riser as far as I can remember and luckily, I never had to work night shifts nor grave yard shifts.

I did not ask you if you get up at Amritvela or not. All I asked was if you believe that this is a principle of Gurmat to get up at early hours of the morning. I think this is a fair question because

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You are not being honest here I am afraid which I am surprised about as it is coming from you. I never denied anything. Please show me a single post of mine where I denied that you accuse me of.

Your original question was "Which Vela is NOT Amrit Vela based on SGGS, our only Guru?" From this question we can deduce that you may not be a believer in 4th Pehar of the night to be Amritvela. We asked you a simple question and this question can be answered in a simple yes or no. There is no need to get defensive over this.

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We all know that there are 8 pehars and we also know the day starts at 12AM. So, can you please tell me what duration of time Chauthah-pehar comes in based on that mathematically speaking? I would appreciate that.

The days starts at 12 am, as per Western way of calculating time. This is not how the day begins in our culture. The days begins when the sun rises. We should not mix Pehar system of calculating time with 24 hour system (the Western system). Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote

I did not ask you if you get up at Amritvela or not. All I asked was if you believe that this is a principle of Gurmat to get up at early hours of the morning. I think this is a fair question because

Yes you did, but now you are changing your tune as you did about Sakhis when challenged although you used the Sakhi in your initial response. Is mixing Sakhis with Gurbani the Hukam you talk about.?

Following is your original question which was directed to me.

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Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not?

Kulbir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote

I did not ask you if you get up at Amritvela or not. All I asked was if you believe that this is a principle of Gurmat to get up at early hours of the morning. I think this is a fair question because

Yes you did, but now you are changing your tune as you did about Sakhis used to justify Gurbani comprehension.

Following is your original question which was directed to me.

Quote

Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not?

Quote

Your original question was "Which Vela is NOT Amrit Vela based on SGGS, our only Guru?" From this question we can deduce that you may not be a believer in 4th Pehar of the night to be Amritvela. We asked you a simple question and this question can be answered in a simple yes or no. There is no need to get defensive over this.

My original question still stands. There is no time given for AmritVela in the SGGS, our only Guru. Any time is time for Amrit according to my understanding. You never responded to my original question which you posted above.

What time span is 4th Pehar?

According to Mehtab Singh ji post (I do not know if it is the same gentleman who participates in this forum or not) on:

[www.sikhsangat.com]

Quote

This is what I was told once

6 AM - 9 AM peher 1
9 AM - 12 PM peher 2
12 PM - 3 PM peher 3
3 PM - 6 PM peher 4 (probably Rehras time ??)

6 PM - 9 PM peher 5
9 PM - 12 AM peher 6
12 AM - 3 AM peher 7
3 AM - 6 AM peher 8 (I think this 1 is Amritvela)

Quote

The days starts at 12 am, as per Western way of calculating time. This is not how the day begins in our culture. The days begins when the sun rises. We should not mix Pehar system of calculating time with 24 hour system (the Western system). Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night.

OK, I will take your word for it. Then do you mean Mehatab Singh ji is wrong?

Secondly, we all know that DUPEHAR= 2nd Pehar is the 3 hour period starting from mid day to 3 PM. So, then how come "Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night" and what does typically mean in your post?

Does it mean that you are not sure?

Please clarify your stance.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh







:

Tejwant Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kulbir Singh ji,
>
> Guru Fateh.
>
> You write:
>
> I did not ask you if you get up at Amritvela or
> not. All I asked was if you believe that this is a
> principle of Gurmat to get up at early hours of
> the morning. I think this is a fair question
> because
>
> Yes you did, but now you are changing your tune as
> you did about Sakhis used to justify Gurbani
> comprehension.
>

Wow another burst of pompous utterance. Anyways did Kulbir Singh ji actually ask if Tejwant Singh ji gets up at Amrit Vela? hmm. Lets see. Well Kulbir Singh ji's actual words were:

Quote

Tejwant Singh jeeo,

Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not? It does not matter what name you give to this time, the main thing is that a Sikh must wake up during early morning hours and engage in Sifat-Salaah of Vaheguru, through Naam-Gurmantr and Gurbani. You can call this time Amritvela, Prabhaat, Jhaalangay or Chauthah-Pehar etc. but you cannot deny the importance of this time in Gurmat.

Sure, any time when we are engaged in doing Sifat-Salaah of Vaheguru, that time is Amritmai but this does not negate the early morning hours of Bhagti.

Kulbir Singh

Well, as anyone can read and see Kulbir Singh did not ask whether Tejwant Singh actually gets up at Amrit Vela. He asked a question about whether he believes in the concept. And Kulbir Singh ji did NOT change any tune. His TUNE has remained consistent since the beginning of the thread.


> Following is your original question which was
> directed to me.
>
> Please inform us if you believe in getting up at
> early morning hours or not?
>

Okay tell us, does this line sounds like he is asking whether you get up at amrit vela yourself or is it whether you believe in getting up?

ਤੇਜਵੰਤ ਅੰਕਲ ਜੀ !!!!!!! ਕੀ ਕਰੀ ਜਾਨੇ ਓਂ !!! ਥੋਨੂੰ ਹੋਇਆ ਕੀ ਐ ? ਕਿਉਂ ਐਵੇਂ ਲੜਣ ਨੂੰ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹੋਂ ?


> My original question still stands. There is no
> time given for AmritVela in the SGGS, our only
> Guru. Any time is time for Amrit according to my
> understanding. You never responded to my original
> question which you posted above.
>

ਹਾਂਜੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ respond. ਹਾਰ ਗਿਆ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਤੋਂ . ਚਲੋ ਗੱਲ ਮੁੱਕੀ . ਹੁਣ ਇਹ ਦੱਸੋ ਬੀ ਇਸ ਗੁਰਵਾਕ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਕੀ ਹੈ :

ਮਃ ੪ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥
ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥
ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥
ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

ਕੀ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਣ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਨਹੀਂ ? ਤੇ ਜੇ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਇਹਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਸਹਿਮਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ . Uncle ji please ਸਿਧਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਦਿਓ ਤੇ ਐਵੇਂ ਗੱਲ ਦੀ ਜਲੇਬੀ ਨਾ ਬਣਾਇਓ ਪਲੀਜ਼.

ਨਾਲੇ ਇੱਕ ਗੱਲ ਹੋਰ ਦੱਸਿਓ ਸਚੀ ਸਚੀ , ਕੀ ਤੁੱਸੀ ਇਥੇ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਲ ਲੜਣ ਆਏ ਹੋਂ ? ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਗੁੱਸਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਦੱਸੋ ਪਰ ਗੱਲ ਤਾਂ ਜ਼ਰਾ ਹਲੀਮੀ, ਗਰੀਬੀ , ਨਿਮਰਤਾ ਨਾਲ ਕਰੋ ਜੀ . ਆਖਿਰ ਆਪਾਂ ਗੁਰਮਤ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਾਂ !!!

> What time span is 4th Pehar?
>
> According to Mehtab Singh ji post (I do not know
> if it is the same gentleman who participates in
> this forum or not) on:
>
> [www.sikhsangat.com]
> -pehars-of-the-day-in-gurbani/
>
> This is what I was told once
>
> 6 AM - 9 AM peher 1
> 9 AM - 12 PM peher 2
> 12 PM - 3 PM peher 3
> 3 PM - 6 PM peher 4 (probably Rehras time ??)
>
> 6 PM - 9 PM peher 5
> 9 PM - 12 AM peher 6
> 12 AM - 3 AM peher 7
> 3 AM - 6 AM peher 8 (I think this 1 is Amritvela)
>
>
> The days starts at 12 am, as per Western way of
> calculating time. This is not how the day begins
> in our culture. The days begins when the sun
> rises. We should not mix Pehar system of
> calculating time with 24 hour system (the Western
> system). Chautha Pehar typically means the last
> quarter of the night.
>
> OK, I will take your word for it. Then do you mean
> Mehatab Singh ji is wrong?
>
> Secondly, we all know that DUPEHAR= 2nd Pehar is
> the 3 hour period starting from mid day to 3 PM.
> So, then how come "Chautha Pehar typically means
> the last quarter of the night" and what does
> typically mean in your post?
>
> Does it mean that you are not sure?
>
> Please clarify your stance.
>
> Thanks and regards
>
> Tejwant Singh

ਜੇ ਮੰਨ ਲਈਏ ਕੀ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਤਾ ਫੇਰ ਕੀ ਹੋਜੂ ? ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਣ ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਗਲਤ ਹੋ ਜੂ ? ਤੁਸੀਂ ਐਵੇਂ ਫਾਲਤੂ ਗੱਲਾ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੇ ਹੋਂ ਚਾਰੇ ਪਾਸੇ? ਗੱਲ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੋ ਰਾਹੀ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਣ ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਗੁਰਮੱਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਹੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ

ਇਕ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਉਪਰ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਦੱਸੋ ਤੇ ਦੂਜਾ ਇਸ ਸਲੋਕ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਦੱਸੋ :

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥

ਦੁਬਾਰਾ ਫੇਰ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹੈ ਕੇ ਗੱਲ ਸਿਧੀ ਦਸਣਾ , ਜਲੇਬੀ ਵਿਚ sugar ਜਾਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਸੇਹਤ ਲਈ ਚੰਗੀ ਨਹੀਂ

Quote

What time span is 4th Pehar?

According to Mehtab Singh ji post (I do not know if it is the same gentleman who participates in this forum or not) on:

[www.sikhsangat.com]

Quote

This is what I was told once

6 AM - 9 AM peher 1
9 AM - 12 PM peher 2
12 PM - 3 PM peher 3
3 PM - 6 PM peher 4 (probably Rehras time ??)

6 PM - 9 PM peher 5
9 PM - 12 AM peher 6
12 AM - 3 AM peher 7
3 AM - 6 AM peher 8 (I think this 1 is Amritvela)

Quote

The days starts at 12 am, as per Western way of calculating time. This is not how the day begins in our culture. The days begins when the sun rises. We should not mix Pehar system of calculating time with 24 hour system (the Western system). Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night.

OK, I will take your word for it. Then do you mean Mehatab Singh ji is wrong?

Secondly, we all know that DUPEHAR= 2nd Pehar is the 3 hour period starting from mid day to 3 PM. So, then how come "Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night" and what does typically mean in your post?

In Gurbani Pehars are used to explain time. The term Atthe pehar (8 pehar) does not mean that there are 8 pehars in a day. There are 4 pehars in the day and 4 pehars in the night. These put together equal the 24 hour "day" that we are familiar with in modern times. So when in Gurbani Guru Sahib says to wake up at the 4th pehar, it means to wake up at the 4th pehar of the night.

These are not hard measurements but are quite fluid. That is why the term typically is used. In puratan times there were no clocks and the measurement of time was a general measurement that was not the same every time. They would judge the starting of the day on the rise of the sun, and we know that the rise of the sun changes due to seasons.

It is also understood that the same term can have different meaning in different uses.

Preetam Singh

Quote

Secondly, we all know that DUPEHAR= 2nd Pehar is the 3 hour period starting from mid day to 3 PM. So, then how come "Chautha Pehar typically means the last quarter of the night" and what does typically mean in your post?

Dupehar is the time after 2 pehars of the day have passed.

ਸੂਰਜ ਉਦਯ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਦੋ ਪਹਿਰ ਵੀਤਣ ਦਾ ਸਮਾਂ

It is not the actual second pehar. But refers to the 3rd pehar of the day.

Preetam Singh

Tejwant Singh

You dont have to believe in what you dont want to accept. No one is forcing you to. Having a weakness is one thing, but totally denying a certain principle is another. I think we all should draw the line somewhere between right and wrong. You dont have to wake up at early hours if you dont want to, but stop arguing. Go and get a life, go do something worthwhile, rather wasting your time and making others spend their time in arguing with you. Do you know of a life outside of the computer screen, keyboard, mouse and internet.....I think there is one, go and explore and you will I am right!

Preetam Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote

In Gurbani Pehars are used to explain time. The term Atthe pehar (8 pehar) does not mean that there are 8 pehars in a day. There are 4 pehars in the day and 4 pehars in the night. These put together equal the 24 hour "day" that we are familiar with in modern times. So when in Gurbani Guru Sahib says to wake up at the 4th pehar, it means to wake up at the 4th pehar of the night.

Could you please quote the Shabads from the SGGS with the panna numbers that clarifies there are night and day 4 pehars each rather than 8 pehars for 24 hours? I would appreciate it.

Quote

These are not hard measurements but are quite fluid. That is why the term typically is used. In puratan times there were no clocks and the measurement of time was a general measurement that was not the same every time. They would judge the starting of the day on the rise of the sun, and we know that the rise of the sun changes due to seasons.

It is also understood that the same term can have different meaning in different uses.

By your above explanation, it seems that the duration of Pehars being quite fluid, the Pehar in Patna Sahib in the East, the birth place of our 10th Nanak where the Sun rises earlier would be a bit different than the Pehar in Amritsar, the Sanctum Sanctorum of Sikhi where the Sun rises later because it being in the West although there is no time change.

Is that what you mean?

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Sevak Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote

Tejwant Singh

You dont have to believe in what you dont want to accept. No one is forcing you to. Having a weakness is one thing, but totally denying a certain principle is another. I think we all should draw the line somewhere between right and wrong. You dont have to wake up at early hours if you dont want to, but stop arguing. Go and get a life, go do something worthwhile, rather wasting your time and making others spend their time in arguing with you. Do you know of a life outside of the computer screen, keyboard, mouse and internet.....I think there is one, go and explore and you will I am right!

I fail to understand why so much anger and ire from a beautiful name like yours. I never said I did not accept getting up in the early morning, in fact I do. Please read my post regarding this. I do not accept that Amirt Vela is early in the morning. Anytime for me is the Time for Amrit as mentioned several time. I have no idea why you are against that.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Sat Sri Akal Tejwant Singh jio,
Once I did Satnam Waheguru without sleeping and fell asleep, then at 1.30 am Guru Gobind Singh Jio Himself came and woke me up, then disappeared in huge silver, and blue shimmer...
Next day, I did not do Simran, but Guru Gobind Singh Jio came again to wake me up at exact same time...and if u still doubt Amritvela hour as advised by His Gem Saints above, then I suggest u do Naam Simram as I did, and who knows the Great King will visit u too??
bhul chuk muaf
Gurfateh

Ps..i was blessed with Guru Gobind Singh jio visit after going to His Gems Saints' Gurdwara in Canada, Dixie, with a heavy heart while they were having smagam Jio...

Quote

I fail to understand why so much anger and ire from a beautiful name like yours. I never said I did not accept getting up in the early morning, in fact I do. Please read my post regarding this. I do not accept that Amirt Vela is early in the morning. Anytime for me is the Time for Amrit as mentioned several time. I have no idea why you are against that.

Tejwant Singh jeeo,

First you had declared that you would never let anyone know if you get up in the early morning hours or not because this is between you and "Ik Onkar" but now few posts later you have informed us that you do get up early morning. Thanks!

And Veer jeeo, I early on I only asked you if you believe in getting up at early hours of the morning and did not ask if you yourself get up early morning or not.

If you do get up early morning, then what's this debate about? If you don't want to call this time Amritvela but want to call it something else, that's fine with us. Our main concern is that we Sikhs should get up early morning to engage in Sifat Salaah of Vaheguru. There is no point in picking the nitty-gritty stuff just for the sake of debating. You believe in Naam Simran and you believe in Amritvela also, although you don't like to call it Amritvela. We are fine with this and see no reason to debate since you and we are in agreement as far as basics are concerned.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh,

Guru fateh.

You write:

Quote

First you had declared that you would never let anyone know if you get up in the early morning hours or not because this is between you and "Ik Onkar" but now few posts later you have informed us that you do get up early morning. Thanks!

I have no idea why people in this forum who claim to get up early in the morning to jump start their lives with Ik Ong Kaar to relish the rest of the day with bliss," Gaviei Sunhiei Munn Rakhiei Bhao...." purposely try to mislead, misconstrue in a dishonest manner what other people have said and it is all recorded here for everyone to see.

I have seen this widely used thing in the two threads I have participated in so far. One can read all the posts with SEHAJ and check it out for oneself. These people who practice the above according to them seem angry, full of ire and show having a very thin skin and prejudge others which is sad to say. More insults have been thrown at me because of my posts for some reason. Is this what we get from "Sifat Salaah of Vaheguru."? If we do, then shame on us and our methodology which makes us use Gurbani as a weapon rather than a tool.

Kulibir Singh ji, with due respect, you are being dishonest for the reason known only to you.

Let's revise the whole thing in an honest way with the focus on "Sifat Salaah of Vaheguru.", your words.

Here is what you asked me the first time::


1.Please inform us if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not?

Inform you about whom and who are us?

if you believe in getting up at early morning hours or not?

Who is You?

Of course Me, no one else.

You want the information about my habit of getting up early. You are NOT asking me my opinion about the people in general.

To inform about something is NOT asking opinions about others but about the person himself from whom the information is being seeked

You may deny it as you much as you wish. It matters naught because the above is in front of you.

So, the above simply asks me that," I should inform you all if I believe in getting up in the morning".. It is not directed to anyone else but to me. It is nor directed to ask my opinion about others which was done when I challenged you with the following:

"Thanks to our visionary Guru Nanak and all the Nanaks who followed him, we have no Papacy, nor any clergy in Sikhi. As a result of that, the relationship becomes between the individual Sikh and Ik Ong Kaar through our only Guru, the SGGS. Hence, Sikhi is a journey of the individual and each of us carries our own Gurmat torch and only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at.

Sorry to disappoint you but the same goes for you and for everyone else. It is rather self serving, self-centered and egotistical on our part to even ask that to others. We should all stick to our individual relationships with The One. Many Sikhs work night shifts,grave yards etc etc. So, one should ask what is the time to immerse in Amrit (Amrit Vela) for them. I also personally know many Sikhs who get up at 2AM, parrot for sometime and then go off to sleep.

So, you will never find that out by asking me such a question. My relationship is between myself and Ik Ong Kaar as is yours. Having said that, I have been an early riser as far as I can remember and luckily, I never had to work night shifts nor grave yard shifts."

After my above post, your tune changed as it did in the other thread.

Quote

I did not ask you if you get up at Amritvela or not. All I asked was if you believe that this is a principle of Gurmat to get up at early hours of the morning. I think this is a fair question because

Of course you did. Read your very first post again.

Here you are not being honest. It is a totally different question than the original one and you know that very well. I have no idea why change of tone again. Is this what you call: "Sifat Salaah of Vaheguru"?

I have no idea why you did not answer my questions for those GurSikhs who work night shifts and grave yards? Arn't they GurSikhs for you? What is Amritvela would you designate for them?

Let's carry on:

In your last post you were blatantly false:

Quote

First you had declared that you would never let anyone know if you get up in the early morning hours or not because this is between you and "Ik Onkar" but now few posts later you have informed us that you do get up early morning. Thanks!

Kulbir Singh ji, I mentioned that I get up early in the morning in my very first post to you. I have no idea why you are being dishonest again for no reasons.

In fact on Sikhphilosophy.net, I used to write in details what I used to do and how I felt in the early hours of the morning. I stopped writing it after sometime because a thought came to my mind that these writings were more about Meism than about the ONE. Hence I stopped writing on that very subject. It is for all to read on the forum.

It is OK to make mistakes. This is part and parcel of all humankind but, we Sikhs have one advantage, we do not deny our mistakes or shove them under the rug. We accept them dust ourselves off and carry on. That is what the word Sikh means, to make mistakes and learn from them.

After having said that, I must admit I am enjoying this forum quite a bit. It has been a learning experience for me so far.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

ਤੇਜਵੰਤ uncle ji,

Please ਏਸ ਸਲੋਕ ਦੇ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਮੁਤਾਬਿਕ ਕੀ ਅਰਥ ਬਣਦੇ ਹਨ , ਦੱਸਿਓ ਜੀ :

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥


(ਬਿਨਾ ਜਲੇਬੀ ਤੋਂ, ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ)

Tejwant ji,
if u are in sehaj why so critical...just as you accuse Bhai Kulbir Singh Jio of being dishonest, what about your intentions ji??
this post was to address time for Amritvela, and how to achieve it if sleep is an obstacle ji.
bhul chuk muaf Waheguru

Tejwant

So you popped in here also. What is your query?

Tejwant ji wrote

parrot for sometime and then go off to sleep.
=======================================
Can you elaborate on word parrot? What are you referring to when
you write parrot?

ਤੇਜਵੰਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਚ # ਚੁੰਜ ਗਿਆਨੀ #ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ |ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਲੇ ਕੁਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਬਸ ਮੁਫਤ ਚ ਕਾਂ ਵਾਂਗ ਇਧਰ ਉਧਰ ਠੁੰਗੇ ਮਾਰਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ |

Bhai Tejwant Singh jee

Please keep to the topic and do not get side tracked with talk of dishonesty.

All Gursikhs have risen at Amritvela since the times of Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee there is no doubt on this. Many historical Sources can prove this and most of all GurbaNee and RehitNameh prove that rising for morning Bhagti is essential.

Please read through articles on the site and Arth Bodh from many Gursikhs who have explained the importance of Amritvela.

Why is he refraining to reply my question? Are you there?

Guru Fateh to all,

@eyeacadamic ji,

You write:

Quote

ਤੇਜਵੰਤ uncle ji,

Please ਏਸ ਸਲੋਕ ਦੇ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਮੁਤਾਬਿਕ ਕੀ ਅਰਥ ਬਣਦੇ ਹਨ , ਦੱਸਿਓ ਜੀ :

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਗਿਓਹਿ ਜੀਵਦੜੋ ਮੁਇਓਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਤੈ ਰਬੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਤ ਰਬਿ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਿਓਹਿ ॥੧੦੭॥

Please share your own understanding of the Shabad as I requested to all who post any Shabad here, then only I can pitch in. I am still waiting for your understanding of the other Shabad that you are supposed to share with us.

Will wait for both.


@KS ji,

You write:

Quote

Tejwant ji,
if u are in sehaj why so critical...just as you accuse Bhai Kulbir Singh Jio of being dishonest, what about your intentions ji??
this post was to address time for Amritvela, and how to achieve it if sleep is an obstacle ji.
bhul chuk muaf Waheguru

I am not accusing Kulbir Singh ji of anything. Everything is black and white written here. All can read it. Rather Kulbir Singh ji has accused me of several things in my posts which are not true and I never said those. I never mentioned what he claimed I mentioned. We, as Sikhs have the responsibility to be honest. If it is a mistake then it is our duty to admit it.

@ Vista ji,

You write:

Quote

Bhai Tejwant Singh jee

Please keep to the topic and do not get side tracked with talk of dishonesty.

All Gursikhs have risen at Amritvela since the times of Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee there is no doubt on this. Many historical Sources can prove this and most of all GurbaNee and RehitNameh prove that rising for morning Bhagti is essential.

Please read through articles on the site and Arth Bodh from many Gursikhs who have explained the importance of Amritvela.

I never disputed what you are saying. My only contention is that I understand Time of Amrit-Amritvela- is Any Time as mentioned many times in my post. It is not a fixed time. Even Kulbir Singh ji agreed with me on that.

SGGS, our only Guru tells us to have this Amrit anytime, anywhere 24-7, even while sleeping. Living in Amritsar within is the only way Gurmat can become our second nature, hence every action we take is based on it quite unknowingly.

How one attains the above is only by immersing in Gurbani in the SGGS, our only Guru, in "Gaviei Sunhei Munn Rakhiei Bahoh...".mode according to Guru Nanak, our visionary founder who paved the way for all of us so that we can proudly call ourselves Sikhs.

Thanks & regards to All.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

You are a city bred bloke. So may not be knowing many of rustic punjabi words which are known to ordinary Punjabis like me.

Do you know what is meant by "Bhalke". It is related to topic of this thread and also used by our Guru sahibans.

After sikhs resisted tyranny in 1984, there started a conspiracy to confuse them especially young minds about our age old
traditions. They brought in a discredited police constable kala afghana and used his name to dish out some ten books in
a period of 3 to 4 years.

The bunch of writers were never known but it was code named operation scripture distortion. Kala afghana was called to Fresno,cA
to a Gurudwara sahib.He was asked some questions.To utter amazement of sangat he knew nothing what he was supposed to write
in those books. He was like Alice in wonderland and completely confused person.

That is how i read some of his books and also Dasam Granth sahib as their main target at that time was Dasam Granth sahib as sikhs
gets inspiration to fight from there.

But books contained basically everything against sikhism. So missionary pronouncements that they are for SGGS ji is all lies as they propagate
more against it.

Denunciation of Amritvela is in those books. Denunciation of naam simran, the only method to elevate our consciousness, is in those books. So
such people get their feed from there.In essence those books are a pile of garbage criticizing sikh practices. It is a pity that such schemes are
crafted in a democracy against a minority.