The West should carry a 'Bad for Jeevan Health Warning'

When our Grandparents came over to Canada, the UK and USA in the 1950s and later it was primarily for a better future. A more comfortable life for their offspring and better worldly opportunities. These reasons and other materialistic hopes and desires were attributes pretty much foreign to the real simple living Gurmukhs who had no desire for the entrapments offered in the West. Our forefathers were primarily simple farming folk who although kesdhari had a limited view on Gursikhi. One cannot blame them therefore for making the journey to better their standard of living and provide a better maternalistic future for their children.

Those real Gursikh like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh were asked many a time to travel to Canada and other places abroad and one Singh who was there when he was asked told me the answer was always the same ‘ Meh utte jah ke ki karna?’. And quite correct too! What was there for Bhai Sahib in Toronto, London or the ‘Sunny’ Los Angeles?

Despite the many misgivings of India, no one can doubt there is a certain magic about the place. That land has been set foot on , not only by our Guru Sahiba and many a Brahm Giani such as Banda Singh Bahadur but also many a Hindu God, Devtia, Rishia and other great souls.
Infact, its no coincidence that every major religion of the world started off in the East. Islam, Christianity (Middle East), Buddhism (Far East), Hinduism and Sikhism. That spiritual reverberation is most tangibly felt in Amritsar, Harmander Sahib where even the most non-religious of foreign tourist remark about the special atmosphere of that sacred place.

In contrast, I am afraid to say we here in the West live in a soulless , tasteless and spiritually devoid place. There are some good Sikhs here, no doubt but I am of the opinion one can only attain a certain level of Jeevan here which falls way short of the bar. To compensate, new terms are being coined..’bibeki pizza’ ,‘bibeki fries’ with a ‘bibeki soya chicken burger.’ Come on. Please. 
The West has resulted in a dilution of the Sikh faith and no matter how much we kid ourselves we are here for the materialistic trappings. Materialism and Gursikhi and mutually exclusive terms. So take your pick.

Very well said JS jeeo. Not only Western living but overall comfortable and affluent lifestyle has resulted in dilution of Sikhi.

Kulbir Singh

Sikhi is definitely diluted compared the lifestyles and devotion of Puratan Gursikhs. With that being said, I don't think it's a matter of the East being spiritually better than the West because Guru Sahib says:

ਜਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਬਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੋ ਥਾਨੁ ਸੁਹਾਵਾ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥

and Guru Granth Sahib Ji is with us here in the West as well. It's just a matter of who wants to eat the fruits of Amrit and who wants to eat poison. Living in the West, it's our responsibility to work even harder towards building a strong Jeevan because of the fact that we have so many distractions around us. But once again, Guru Sahib tells us the way to do it:

ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥

and this can only happen by putting our full faith in Guru Sahib. People like myself who have a weak Jeevan just need to give so much love to Sikhi that we don't have any love left to give to any materialism.

Bhul Chuk Maafi Ji

ਮੈਂ ਤੁਹਾਡੀ ਗੱਲ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਪਰ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਭੁਲੇਖੇ ਵਿਚ ਹੋਂ | ਵੈਸਟ ਨੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਸਾਂਭੀ ਹੋਈ ਐ | ਥੋਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿਚ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾ ਕਿੰਨਾ ਨਿਘਾਰ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕਿਆ ਹੈ | ਓਥੇ ਸਮਾਜਿਕ ਮਾਹੌਲ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ ਚੰਗੇ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖ ਜੀਵਨ ਜਿਊਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ | ਅੱਜ ਦੀ ਤਰੀਕ ਵਿਚ ਓਥੇ ਪੈਸਾ , ਬਦਮਾਸ਼ੀ , ਅਯਾਸ਼ੀ , ਨਸ਼ਾ ਇੰਨਾ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਦੇਖਕੇ ਦੰਦਾ ਵਿਚ ਉਂਗਲਾ ਪਾ ਲਵੋਂਗੇ | ਤੇ ਹੈਰਾਨੀ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਤਾਂ ਹਾਲੇ ਠੀਕ ਨੇ , ਪਿੰਡ ਵਿਗੜ ਗਏ ਨੇ | ਮੁੰਡੇ ਤਾਂ ਮੁੰਡੇ ਕੁੜੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਅੱਤ ਕੀਤੀ ਪਈ ਐ |

ਇਹ ਵੈਸਟ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਹਨੇ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਨੂੰ ਮਰਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਦਿੱਤਾ | ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦਾ ਰੱਬ ਰਾਖਾ ਐ ਹੁਣ ਤਾਂ |

ਮੇਰੇ ਲਫਜ਼ ਸਖਤ ਹੋਣਗੇ ਪਰ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਕਰਕੇ ਦਿਲ ਰੋਂਦਾ ਹੈ

JS jeo,

when you mention:

Quote
JS
There are some good Sikhs here, no doubt but I am of the opinion one can only attain a certain level of Jeevan here which falls way short of the bar.

presuming that the core of your message lies here, could you define exactly what you intended to verbalize ?

note: Buddhism didnt start in far east, it started in modern day Bihar & Nepal region. East Asia is as soulless & devoid of faith in Akal Purakh as the West is.

Chota veer

On a forum like this its nice just to air ones view. It may be right or wrong (ive been proved wrong a number of times) , but its just ones view. I am not sure of the necessity on a personal viewpoint like this to have to then clinically dissect words or sentences or analyse in detail. Seems a bit of an overkill and waste of valuable energy to me. All good points and all noted. Thanks.

Nevertheless, it seems like a bit of clarification is required… so here goes. Briefly, in bullet point fashion.

(i) Those leaving Punjab (and India in general) for permanent stay in the West do so for materialistic advantages, worldly comforts and a better worldly future. Make no mistake on that. Although one cannot blame them as Maya has a firm hold on us all, the fact remains that those reasons are not in line with real Gurmat. (period). Hence Bhai Sahibs comment when asked to go.
(ii) The quote on Jeevan. If hypothetically someone told me there was a real Rangle Sajjan / Brahm Giani somewhere on this wondrous little planet.. I would book a ticket to find him/her straight away. Furthermore, that ticket would not be to London Heathrow, Toronto Pearson or Chicago im afraid. No. You are not likely to find him cutting his lawn infront his nice house in downtown Toronto or shopping with his trolley in a supermarket looking at ingredients on cookies in suburban London. More likely, in some simple small Punjab village , living on simple daal , milking his own cow and keeping his mind fixed on one thing. Let alone moving to the West, he would probably not be prepared to remove his kirpan to take a flight. It just would not compute.
(iii) Having said that. One has to give credit and respect to those born here or bought over very young and who try to maintain a strict rehat despite the stronger pull of maya. They are real jewels I must say.

Guru Fateh jio.

To play devil's advocate, how is Sikhi supposed to spread if there are no Sikhs in the west? This universal message must be spread for upliftment of all mankind.

Quote
js
Those leaving Punjab (and India in general) for permanent stay in the West do so for materialistic advantages, worldly comforts and a better worldly future.

Not true. May be you have put forward your views after seeing the migration of Mone-Ghone in last 5 or 10 years.

Many families left for asylum after '78 n '84 genocide. They got Hukamnama from Guru Sahib and then only they left. Historically, when times were not favorable during Abdali's time, the Singhs were forced to move to forest. Similarly in present time they have moved to different countries. But, come back was made in Abdali's time and it will be made in coming future when time is appropriate.

During the time when social, political & economical pillars of the land have been ruined, at that time it is sensible to move out to peaceful place and focus more on Naam-Bani. At the moment the situation in Punjab is nothing less than Syria. Only the old trees can stand there and no new plant can be sown. The seeds which has been spread across Australia, UK, US, Canada and other places, should nourish themselves with Naam Ras which will surely become Bir Ras in coming times and roots will follow it's homeland. Come back will be made and boundaries will be redrawn because time does not remain same always !

Whether Brahmgiani is doing gardening in Mehta Chowk or doing farming in Nanded or cutting lawn in Toronto, you need to be in Awastha to see that light.

More bhagti in west urgently needed, because evil preaching jesu referring to Guru Sahib as satan jio!

Duty of every Sikh who are das of Guru Sahib Jio in true sense..


This Shabad is by Guru Gobind Singh in Dasam Granth on Pannaa 133

cOpeI ]
chaapee ||
Chaupai

ijn ijn nwm iqhwro iDAwieAw ] dUK pwp iqh inkt n AwieAw ]
jin jin naam thihaaro dhhiaaeiaa || dhookh paap thih nikatt n aaeiaa ||
Whosoever, have meditated on Your Name, Sufferings and vices do not hover over them.

jy jy Aaur iDAwn ko DrhIN ] bihs bihs bwdn qy mrhIN ] 41]
jae jae aour dhhiaan ko dhharehee(n) || behis behis baadhan thae marehee(n) || 41||
Forsaking You, those persons, who contemplate on another's worship, They die amidst wrangling over conflicting affairs.(41)

hm ieh kwj jgq mo Awey ] Drm hyq gurdyv pTwey ]
ham eih kaaj jagath mo aaeae || dhharam haeth guradhaev pat(h)aaeae ||
For this role, I have come to this world. The Preceptor Lord (Vaheguru) has sent me for the promotion of the Dharma.

jhW qhW qum Drm ibQwro ] dust doKIAin pkir pCwro ] 42]
jehaa(n) thehaa(n) thum dhharam bithhaaro || dhusatt dhokheean pakar pashhaaro || 42||
(The Lord said), "Spread the Dharma (Highway of righteousness) everywhere. "Seize, defeat and knock the tyrants and evil-doers down."( 42)

XwhI kwj Drw hm jnmM ] smJ lyhu swDU sB mn mM ]
yaahee kaaj dhharaa ham janama(n) || samajh laehu saadhhoo sabh man ma(n) ||
For this purpose, I have taken birth. Let all the saints know it in their inner selves.

prm clwvn sMq aubwrn ] dust sBn ko mUl aupwrn ] 43]
param chalaavan sa(n)th oubaaran || dhusatt sabhan ko mool oupaaran || 43||
(That my aim is) to spread the Dharma (Truth) and to save the holy men. And to weed out the wicked enmasse.(43)

jy jy Bey pihl Avqwrw ] Awpu Awpu iqn jwpu aucwrw ]
jae jae bheae pehil avathaaraa || aap aap thin jaap ouchaaraa ||
Those earlier incarnations who appeared before (Guru Nanak), They urged the people to worship their names.

pRB dooKI koeI n ibdwrw ] Drm krn ko rwhu n fwrw ] 44]
prabh dhookhee koee n bidhaaraa || dhharam karan ko raahu n ddaaraa || 44||
They (the incarnations) did not destroy any foe of the Lord. They did not make the people to follow the path of the Dharma.(44)

jy jy gaus AMbIAw Bey ] mY mY krq jgq qy gey ]
jae jae gous a(n)beeaa bheae || mai mai karath jagath thae geae ||
The Muslim Saints and Prophets who came to the world, Full of ego, they, too, left this world.

mhwprK kwhU n pCwnw ] krm Drm ko kCU n jwnw ] 45]
mehaaparakh kaahoo n pashhaanaa || karam dhharam ko kashhoo n jaanaa || 45||
None of them recognized the Supreme Lord. Neither did they consider the Dharma activities as essential.( 45)

Avrn kI Awsw ikCu nwhI ] eykY Aws Dro mn mwhI ]
avaran kee aasaa kishh naahee || eaekai aas dhharo man maahee ||
Reliance on others is futile. Place your trust only in One Formless Lord.

Awn Aws aupjq ikCu nwhI ] vw kI Aws DroN mn mwhI ] 46]
aan aas oupajath kishh naahee || vaa kee aas dhharo(n) man maahee || 46||
To rely on anyone else is useless. Put all your hopes only on Him (The Supreme Soul). (46)

What great closure on this topic ks jio.

not closure js jio,
beginning to serious thought and action, because jesus preachers stating, the one jot concept in Sikhi is also devil power! only jesus is god!?
so why are they so very open to anything goes in life..

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Punjab has a 80+% drug addiction rate, a standing policy against Sikhs with the goal towards assimilation or extermination, riddled with poison due to pesticide poisoning, a ballooning cancer rate, a society that cares more for cows than human life, stuck in antiquated Manu simriti caste system (and a sub caste system to which the Sikhs are perpetuating), day by day worsening influence of maya and consumerism - this is somehow superior to the West?

It may be more productive to do some self analysis as a Panth and get back to its ideals rather than turn into akirtghans to the countries that provide us a safe haven to practice our Sikhi without being bombarded by the above (you will probably get more harassment in India than Canada for wearing banaa and maintaining a Sikhi jeevan). It appears the problem is more for the Sikh Panth to analyze the current pressure of the 5 vikaars and the downward trend of much of the Sikh future generations rather than blaming the availability of resources as the cause of our lessening Chardi-Kalaa (though there are certainly Sikhs who are doing bhagti in the West just fine) and how to address it.

Also, the holier than thou stuff has to stop. There are prescribed dietary restrictions - a Sikh who lives within the Rehat should not be chastised because others believe that eating a "bibeki pizza" or other bibeki foods is somehow a sin. Gurbani and Simran will produce an avastha where all of the worldly tastes will become bland and Naam Ras will be superior - the person will give up those tastes - per Gurbani. Please don't go down this road - soon, there will be comments about how this or that person is not a bibeki because he/she put salt in his/her daal and that is jeeb ras. or that that person's baata is too large and he/she should have a smaller baata.

Self improvement please - stop the blame game. Sikhi is not going down because of what others are doing - Apni Sikhi kamao - become a role model for others to emulate and stop the negativity. Others should see the Kamai and Naam Ras in you and want to emulate - insulting or negativity towards the external world will not somehow sanctify the your internal Sikhi or that of others.

Very true too ms514 jio..

Bhul chuk muaf Vahiguroo Jio

Sikhi in West at its best...

[youtu.be]

Js Singh ji,

You are correct if you are saying Punjab is the most conducive place for anyone with aspirations for being a genuine naam abhiyasi
Gursikh, since many western gursikhs seem to be overly materialistic. The presence of serious naam abhiyasi gumukhs is most prevalent in Punjab. Sikhi originated in Punjab and the fragrance still exists in the air. Amrit vela in Punjab is like no other place in the world. Why wouldn't it be there are countless shaheeds roaming Punjab during this time. The blood of these singhs have made sikhi bloom and its fragrance is like no other place in the world. When one leaves punjab they feel a deep sense of melancholy. Also, there is less harrasament amongst the general public. For example, a couple of days ago I went to a mall in Punjab. The mall had a metal detector and the security guard who was a sardar was thoroughly patting down all the monay. When I came he let me through without checking me. Last month I was at the American Embassy in Delhi, the Hindu security guard let me through with my kirpan despite it being against the offices policy. In India I can take any domestic flight without removing my kirpan. Now, when I was coming to India from America the experience was very different. I was overly harrassed by security and checked multiple times. I was then taken to a private room and checked again. Because of these multiple checkings I almost missed my flight. When I roam through Punjab I don't get the same cold stares that I do in the U.S. . But i think this racial discrimation has made me a better and stronger Sikh. puratan gursikhs are my role models because they teach me how to live in the face of adversity. I feel fortunate that I get to remember them everyday in our daily ardas Many gursikhs in India are not tested and as a result the taksal of naam is not molded. Many of them are comfortable with their sikhi and only relate to sikhi culturally and not spiritually.

No doubt there are more elderly Gurmukhs in India. However , its not the Sikhi utopia you are making it out to be. The condition of Sikh youth in India is alarming . Go to smagams and you will hardly see any youth in comparison to smagams in the West were the majority in attendance are youth dressed in Bana. Punjab youth are trapped in materialism. Because of the western youth I am more optimistic about the future of sikhi in the West more so then India.

Whether you live in Antartica or America , Sikhi can be practiced by any genuine seeker of naam. Bhai gurdas ji says gursikhs are lotuses in the midst of mud. He said we should be detached from our external surroundings and focus internally. Bhai sahib bhai randhir Singh ji spent years in jail which were unfavorable conditions for a sikhi jeevan yet he reached great heights of Gurmat spirituality.

Nice reply Bhai Sukhdeep Sahib jio.

I was beginning to become as popular on this board as Mr Trump is with the Muslim community.
If I was to be brutally honest with myself, this thread was a result of overhearing a middle aged Gusikh couple who had
settled here for about the last 7 years. The disdain in which they described Punjab and the arrogant language used to
depict their current situation (in U.S) riled me somewhat. To a point where they said they have no desire to go back.
Apologies to all - as I suppose krod got the better of me.... If someone has read these posts and come to the conclusion
Punjab is actually a great place for Sikhi... and we must not get too comfortable in the trappings here in the West .... I'm happy.

Apologies again. Guru Fateh ji

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]