Gurmukhi Dastaar

Is there some difference between the gurmukhi dastaara and the dumalla ? Can someone please post some pics of gurmukhi dastaar.

Gurmukhi Dastaara normally is a name give to Dastaar which is Sidhi Dastaar i.e. the one in the pictures below:


(Sant Bishan Singh Muralewale of Taksal (teacher of Sant Sundar Singh)


(Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee)

Some points to remember about Gurmukhi Dastaara are:

1) It should not be put in mouth when tying it.

2) There should be no laR in the back.

3) No pins to hold it and no use of Maava.

4) No Pooni and the Dastaar should not be sewn in the middle to make it double wide like Patiala-shahi puggs.

5) The Keski underneath must be visible on the forehead.


More, later on.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Many years ago when I used to tie a Sidhi dastar with a lar, I had the opportunity to carry Maharaj. I felt so bad afterwards and regretted that I had carried Maharaj on my head as I used to hold the lar in my mouth. Unfortunately it only dawned on me later the mistake I had made.

This caused me a great deal of anxiety, so I changed the way I tied my dastar so that saliva does not pollute my dastar. The very thought of it now makes me wince in embarrassment.

is gurmukhi dastaar preferred over dumalla?

baba bishan singh jee were the only taksal mahapurakh that tied this type of dastaar... every other mahapurkh tied gol dastars.. with the youth dumallai and gol dastars are more popular but the older generation usually wears the Patiala-shahi puggs.

gsingh jeeo,

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baba bishan singh jee were the only taksal mahapurakh that tied this type of dastaar... every other mahapurkh tied gol dastars.. with the youth dumallai and gol dastars are more popular but the older generation usually wears the Patiala-shahi puggs.

There is a picture of Sant Kartar Singh doing paath from Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and he is wearing the Gurmukhi Dastaara like Baba Bishan Singh jee. If someone can post the picture it would be great.

And Gurmukhi Dastaara is not same as Patiala shahi pugg. And all Gol Dastaars are not Dumaalas and Dumaalas are not always gol.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

All the pictures below belong to Pyare Bhai Rashpal SIngh ji:

Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh:


Baba Manochahal Ji:

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Bhai Kulbir Singh
There is a picture of Sant Kartar Singh doing paath from Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and he is wearing the Gurmukhi Dastaara like Baba Bishan Singh jee. If someone can post the picture it would be great.

Here are some of Baba ji though not the same one:
Baba Kartar Singh on the right in both.




Picture of Singh's taken after BHai Sahib Randhir Singh ji's bhog:


Chatrik would personally love to learn this dastar, but there is no one to teach. It would be great if someone can take up the seva! (personally get very annoyed when Chatrik see's a beak on nokh wali dastar...)

Chota veer

Here is the picture of Sant Kartar Singh jee wearing Gurmukhi Dastara:



Kulbir Singh

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piyasi chatrik Wrote:
> (personally get very annoyed when Chatrik see's a
> beak on nokh wali dastar...)

agreed! matha tek literally means forehead must touch the ground! how can someone with patiala wale pug touch his forehead to the floor???

Guru Piyare jio,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Quote
matha tek literally means forehead must touch the ground! how can someone with patiala wale pug touch his forehead to the floor???

The above instruction was even given during the Amrit Sanchars to have Gurmukhi Dastaar or Dumalla, that is why you will never see any GurMukh with Nok vaali Dastaar.

With Regards,
Daas,
Jasjit Singh

ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਜੀਉ,

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਿਹ।

ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਬੜੀਆ ਵਧੀਆ ਤਸਵੀਰਾਂ ਲਭ ਕੇ ਲਿਆਦੀਆਂ ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਸਿੰਘਾ ਦੀਆਂ ਪਹਿਲੋਂ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤੇ ਖ਼ਾਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਭਾਈ ਫੌਜਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਤਸਵੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਤਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਬੜੇ ਹੀ ਯੈਂਕੀ ਲਗਦੇ ਨੇ। ਖਿਮਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਦਾਸ ਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਕੋਈ ਫ਼ਤਵਾ ਨਾ ਲਾ ਦੇਣਾ ਜੀ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਤਸਵੀਰਾ ਨਾਲ ਜਸਜੀਤ ਸਿਉਂ ਮਸ਼ਖਰੀ ਕਰਦੈ। ਦੇਖੋ ਨਾ ਪੈਂਟ ਸ਼ਰਟ ਪਾ, ਘੜੀ ਸ਼ੜੀ ਲਾ ਕੇ ਸੀਸ ਤੇ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਦਸਤਾਰਾ ਸਜਾ ਤੇ ਮੋਢੇ ਕਹੀ ਰੱਖ ਕੇ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਫੋਟੋ ਖਿਚਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਨੇ ਵੀ ਕੀ ਤਸਵੀਰ ਖਿਚੀ ਹੈ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦੇ ਗੱਭਰੂ ਜਵਾਨ ਸ਼ੈਲ ਸ਼ਬੀਲੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਅਤੇ ਉਹ ਵੀ ਓਸ ਸੂਰਮੇ ਦੀ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਕਿਰਤ ਲਈ ਚਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਕਹੀ ‘ਤੇ ਅਤੇ ਧਰਮ ਲਈ ਚਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਤੇਗ ਤੇ ਰੱਜ ਰੱਜ ਕੇ ਮਾਣ ਹੋਵੇ। ਭੁੱਲ ਗਿਆ ਇਸ ਵਿਰਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਜ ਦਾ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੋਜੁਆਨ, ਛਡ ਗਿਆ ਏ ਸੀਸ ਤੇ ਸਜਾਏ ਹੋਏ ਵਡਮੁੱਲੇ ਤਾਜ਼ ਨੂੰ ਤੇ ਭੁੱਲ ਗਿਆ ਏ ਕਿ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਤਾਂ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਂ ‘ਤੇ…..

ਗੁਰੂ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਭੌਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਦਾਸ,
ਜਸਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ

Recently I was wondering why Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Jee tied sidhi dastaar instead of dumalla? Surely Bhai Sahib must have known that original dastaar was dumalla? Were these type of gurmukhi dastars worn in the days of Guru Jee in their human form?

"BaNa is alike for both Singhs and Singhneeaa. On the head there should be the round Dumaalaa (Not Nokhdhaar Pagh; I dont know when this fashion started, originally the Pagh was round. See Bhai Khan Singhs Mahan Kosh and the photo at the back of Ram Raj tract)" from this thread

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Bhai Kulbir Singh ji
> 1) It should not be put in mouth when tying it.
>
> 2) There should be no laR in the back.
>
> 3) No pins to hold it and no use of Maava.
>
> 4) No Pooni and the Dastaar should not be sewn in
> the middle to make it double wide like
> Patiala-shahi puggs.
>
> 5) The Keski underneath must be visible on the
> forehead.

Vaheguru!
Thats exactly what I do!

Quote

Jaskirat Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Recently I was wondering why Bhai Sahib Bhai
> Randheer Singh Jee tied sidhi dastaar instead of
> dumalla? Surely Bhai Sahib must have known that
> original dastaar was dumalla? Were these type of
> gurmukhi dastars worn in the days of Guru Jee in
> their human form?

ਹਉ ਗੋਸਾਈ ਦਾ ਪਹਿਲਵਾਨੜਾ ॥
I am a wrestler; I belong to the Lord of the World.

ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਉਚ ਦੁਮਾਲੜਾ ॥
I met with the Guru, and I have tied a tall, plumed turban.

ਸਭ ਹੋਈ ਛਿੰਝ ਇਕਠੀਆ ਦਯੁ ਬੈਠਾ ਵੇਖੈ ਆਪਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੭॥
All have gathered to watch the wrestling match, and the Merciful Lord Himself is seated to behold it. ||17||

for me, this shows we should wear dumalla when coming before maharaj.

Where did the name Gurmukhi Dastar come from?

hanjee kulbir singh i meant that once they had become jathedar sant kartar singh stopped tying gurmukhi dastar once they become jathedar.

Apologies for digging up an old topic, but I was curious about this:


Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some points to remember about Gurmukhi Dastaara
> are:
>
> 1) It should not be put in mouth when tying it.
>
> 2) There should be no laR in the back.
>
> 3) No pins to hold it and no use of Maava.
>
> 4) No Pooni and the Dastaar should not be sewn in
> the middle to make it double wide like
> Patiala-shahi puggs.
>
> 5) The Keski underneath must be visible on the
> forehead.
>
>
> More, later on.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Bhai Sahib Kulbir Singh Jeo, can you please let me know the source for this info? I mean, is it a practice followed (or should be followed) in the jatha, or is it mentioned in some rehatnama, etc? Please note that I'm mainly interested in points 2 & 3, as the rest of the points are totally obvious!

Bhul chuk maaf!

Dass,
-JP

Quote

Bhai Sahib Kulbir Singh Jeo, can you please let me know the source for this info? I mean, is it a practice followed (or should be followed) in the jatha, or is it mentioned in some rehatnama, etc? Please note that I'm mainly interested in points 2 & 3, as the rest of the points are totally obvious!

The above points are followed by Singhs in Jatha and outside as well. Just look at the Dastar of Singh Sahibaan (Siri Akal Takhat Sahib). They follow these rules. There is no lar in the back and no pins to hold the Dastar. I am not sure if this is mentioned in a Rehitnama because the practice of pins was not followed back then. As for not leaving the laR, this is a known Khalsa tradition. The Dastar whether gol or Sidhi, should not have a laR sticking out anywhere. It's like a circle, which has no Aad (beginning) or Antt (end).

Kulbir Singh

I think the first four points are long established tradition in the Panth and is well known in Panthic cirlces.
Last point (5) is a recent innovation by some of the Toronto singhs.

Bhai Manjit Singh Jio,

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Quote
Last point (5) is a recent innovation by some of the Toronto singhs.

Giani Dit Singh jee, Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, Prof. Sahib Singh Jee not to mention of above pictures Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Bhai Fauja Singh Jee and Baba Kartar Singh jee, do you think they were Toronto Residents?

With Regards,
Daas

Quote

Last point (5) is a recent innovation by some of the Toronto singhs.

Bhai Manjit Singh jeeo, if the last point (5) is a recent innovation, could you explain why every Singh in the past, who has worn a Gurmukhi Dastara, has always had a Keski visible underneath?

Just look at the pictures of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and other Gursikhs of his time and notice their Dastaars. Don't you see that their Keski is visible underneath their Dastaar? Then how is it a recent innovation?

Yes ones who wear Gol Dastaars don't always show their Keski and that's fine. The points listed above were only pertinent to Sidha Gurmukhi Dastaara.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Jasjit Singh and Kulbir Singh Jio,

I think you didn't understand the way I said it.
The first four points I have heard before too but fifth one was innovated in Toronto as far I know.

Lets talk about the Mahanpurkhs you have mentioned above, as we know many of these Gurmukh Piare Mahanpurkhs have written regarding Gurmat. Please tell/quote any of their writing where this point was mentioned, then definitely I will accept that it was not innovated in Toronto.

Some of these Gurmukh Piare Mahanpurkhs have been wearing ACHKEN most of the time, should we say that Gurmukhi Bana must include an ACHKEN too and so on ....

My intention here is not to invalidate any point and I am not saying this point is anti gurmat.
My intention here is that we should avoid making our personal beliefs as the only Gurmat.

Quote

Lets talk about the Mahanpurkhs you have mentioned above, as we know many of these Gurmukh Piare Mahanpurkhs have written regarding Gurmat. Please tell/quote any of their writing where this point was mentioned, then definitely I will accept that it was not innovated in Toronto.

Bhai Manjit Singh jeeo,

Thanks for the clarification but ਪਰਤਖ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਦੀ ਕੀ ਲੋੜ ਹੈ? ਹਾਥ ਕੰਗਨ ਕੋ ਆਰਸੀ ਕਿਆ?

When something is right in front of your eyes, what more proof is required? We have seen that all Gursikhs and Mahapurakhs who wore the Sidhi Dastaar always showed their Keski underneath. What more proof is required that this is was a standard practice. We know very well that a lot of our Rehit is not well-documented but that does not invalidate authentic traditions. It is clear that there is a solid tradition of showing Keski when wearing a Sidhi Gurmukhi Dastaar.

It would have been an innovation of Toronto Singhs if they had started the practice of showing the Keski underneath but it is clear that this practice of showing Keski under the Sidhi Dastaar was not started by Toronto Singhs. This has been the practice much longer and is even practiced today. Daas has personally heard from Late Giani Amolak Singh UK that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee used to show up to five laRs of his Keski.

Bhai Sahib has written that wearing Surmai Dastaara and Basanti Keski is the best combination. What's the point of stressing on wearing Basanti Keski, when you are not going to show it? From this we can derive that Bhai Sahib favoured showing the Keski underneath.

Quote

Some of these Gurmukh Piare Mahanpurkhs have been wearing ACHKEN most of the time, should we say that Gurmukhi Bana must include an ACHKEN too and so on ....

Daas would have derived this if Bhai Sahib and other Gurmukh Pyare, only used to wear Achken (and nothing else) but we know that they did not wear Achken all the time and many times dressed up without Achken. So we cannot say that only Achken is Baana. But on the other hand, he (and other Gursikhs) always showed his Keski under Dastaar (their Sidhi Dastaar). So we can derive that when wearing a Sidhi Dastaar, Keski must show underneath.

Having said that, I also want to mention that just because a person does not show Keski underneath, does not mean that such person would become a Tankhaia or anything like that. But the wise thing is to keep our traditions alive. A vast majority of Gursikhs in the past and today always showed Keski when wearing Sidhi Gurmukhi Dastaar and what's the need to change this tradtion now?

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

"It would have been an innovation of Toronto Singhs if they had started the practice of showing the Keski underneath but it is clear that this practice of showing Keski under the Sidhi Dastaar was not started by Toronto Singhs"


I didn't say that showing Keski is innovation of Toronto singhs, what I said was that calling a dastaar as Gurmukhi only if Keski is shown underneath is innovation of Toronto Singhs, if I still coundn't make it understandable for you then I think you should prepare a list of Moorakhs and put my name on the top.

"When something is right in front of your eyes, what more proof is required? We have seen that all Gursikhs and Mahapurakhs who wore the Sidhi Dastaar always showed their Keski underneath. What more proof is required that this is was a standard practice. We know very well that a lot of our Rehit is not well-documented but that does not invalidate authentic traditions. It is clear that there is a solid tradition of showing Keski when wearing a Sidhi Gurmukhi Dastaar."

If this is a part of rehit that a Sidhi dastar will be gurmukhi if and only if Keski is shown but Goal or dummalaa doesn't have this requirement, isn't a double standard. Bhi Sahib jee didn't say that Basanti Keski is only good with Sidhi dastar. I couldn't find any of the Mahanpurkhs shown above, wearing a Goal dastar showing the Keski. In Jatha there are puratan singhs og Bhai Sahib's time who wear goal/dumalla but don't show Keski. So please tell me the reason for this double standard.

"Daas would have derived this if Bhai Sahib and other Gurmukh Pyare, only used to wear Achken (and nothing else) but we know that they did not wear Achken all the time and many times dressed up without Achken. So we cannot say that only Achken is Baana. But on the other hand, he (and other Gursikhs) always showed his Keski under Dastaar (their Sidhi Dastaar). So we can derive that when wearing a Sidhi Dastaar, Keski must show underneath."

Bhai Sahib jee used to wear two Karhaa, can someone dare to derive that a singh is only singh if wears two Karhaa.

"Having said that, I also want to mention that just because a person does not show Keski underneath, does not mean that such person would become a Tankhaia or anything like that. But the wise thing is to keep our traditions alive. A vast majority of Gursikhs in the past and today always showed Keski when wearing Sidhi Gurmukhi Dastaar and what's the need to change this tradtion now?"

Talking about traditions and Rehit are two different things, Rehit in my understanding is something that if not kept properly make someone tankhaiia or patit but traditions don't. I never said that I don't believe in traditions, rather I think usually I am strictly in favour of our Sikhi traditions and I also believe that there are traditions that someone should not even think to break.

As you know I am not a good writer, if I have written any word considered to be not suitable here, maff karna jee.

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The above points are followed by Singhs in Jatha
> and outside as well. Just look at the Dastar of
> Singh Sahibaan (Siri Akal Takhat Sahib). They
> follow these rules. There is no lar in the back
> and no pins to hold the Dastar. I am not sure if
> this is mentioned in a Rehitnama because the
> practice of pins was not followed back then. As
> for not leaving the laR, this is a known Khalsa
> tradition. The Dastar whether gol or Sidhi, should
> not have a laR sticking out anywhere. It's like a
> circle, which has no Aad (beginning) or Antt
> (end).
>
> Kulbir Singh


Bhai Sahib Jeo & others,
First of all I would like to make it very clear that the reason for coming back to this topic is not argumentative or challenging our traiditions, etc., and my post is not related to the debate happening in the last 3-4 posts.
Its just that if I need to change my style of Dastaara, I would like to be very clear about the need to do so; hence my query!

Have I understood correctly that this way of tying Dastaara (no pooni, no pins, no larr in the end) is as per tradition, and NOT the requirement from Guru Sahib? I mean, there is no anti-Gurmat implications by following it?

I understand it's good to follow on the traditions of the puratan Sikhs, but if we don't, then at least we are not violating any code of conduct!

Again, to reiterate, I'm not intending to instigate any debate here or challenge any existing customBhul chuk maaf!

Dass,
-JP

Quote

Have I understood correctly that this way of tying Dastaara (no pooni, no pins, no larr in the end) is as per tradition, and NOT the requirement from Guru Sahib? I mean, there is no anti-Gurmat implications by following it?

As far as Daas knows, it is a requirement to have no laR sticking out in the back, no pins to hold laRs, not placing laR in the mouth, showing Keski underneath Sidhi Dastaar etc. This is what this Daas has learned in the Sangat of Gurmukhs over the last two decades. If it was not a requirement, why would Singhs do it? In my opinion most Khalsa traditions and Rehits are one and the same thing. A person who knowingly and purposely tries to deviate or change Khalsa traditions is not a friend of Khalsa and is doing no service to Khalsa.

The above is based on Daas' meagre understanding of Gurmat.

Kulbir Singh