Aashqiaan

There is something that I have seen been happening in today's youth these days, so I wanted to bring to everyone's attention. It has become prevalent in this day and age for Sikh youth to openly mingle, chat and flirt with members of the opposite sex. So much so, that those that are doing it, are in fact the ones playing some type of role in the Sikh community and Jatha. These Aashqiaan are openly happening, and adults and elders have chosen to back off and letting the youth get away with such stuff, in the fear that if they do say something to the youth, the youth will be offended or that his or her offence will come forward. It is openly seen while even in Sangat in Guru Sahib Ji's Darbaar that younh Sikh guys and girls stare at one another while Keertan is going on. The adults ignore because if the youth is playing a leading role, they don't want to lose him or her and let these Aashqs get away. The elders know that the youth openly talk to one another, chat with each other on the Internet, openly converse, yet they let them get away and make them feel as if it is okay to do so. The youth even openly talk about their conversations with the opposite sex to the elders, and the elder Gursikhs just laugh it away and pat them on the back for doing so. The elder Gursikhs openly let the youth choose their life partner on their own, an ld even encourage them to do so. If a Sikh youth has a "crush" on the member of the opposite sex and the elders find out, the elder Singhs encourage such an act and often tell the youth to approach the person they "like". But the elder Singhs keep all of this hidden from the regular Sangat, or those "outside" of "their jatha or group". One elder Jatha Singh, who is well respected, is quoted saying several times that "it is okay for young boys and girls to openly talk with one anotger, as long as it is something they really need to talk about to each other" WOW! And he also gets away for saying such a thing! Vaheguroo Ji! What is so important that we need to approach a member of the opposite sex and talk to them about it??? that is a really shameful thing to say! Vaheguru Jee! Or did he mean that if you need to approach him or her for a date? Maybe that is what ge meant by "important"! Going out and dating aren't allowed to begin with. Maybe this is what the elder Gursikhs of Jatha these days did when they were in their youth years! That is why they do not condemn such an act, ie dating, flirting, going, openly talking to members of the opposite sex! Who knows what the youth do behindclosed doors and curtains, and these elder Singhs of today are lettibg Kurehtis get away, all because they need them to play "leading roles"! Yup, we know what Jatha will become, a group led by Bujjer Kurehtis who also teach others to be the same as them. Are these the type of roles the elderdly Singhs of today want the youth to play??? Very, very and extremely shameful!!! The youth has become so shameless, and there is hardly any
modesty!!! Vaheguroo Ji!!!! Is this at will become of Jatha? Or what has become of Akhand Kirtani Jatha??!!!??? Vaheguroo Ji! Misusing Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Jee's name, they spew venom and are committing Kurehtaan and getting away, while trying to display that they are "the A.K.J."???!!! No! NO! I do not call this Jatha anymore! Aashqiaan happenibg on large scale! Now I know that those do Aashqiaan themself, will try to defend it on here, or they would just refrain from posting here!

ਬਾਸਕ ਜੀ ਬਾਅਦ ਵਿਚ ਇਹ ਆਸ਼ਿਕ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਸਹੀ ਸਾਬਿਤ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਇਹ ਜਵਾਬ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੰਚਾਂ ਕੋਲੋਂ ਆਪਣੀ ਭੁਲ ਬਖਸ਼ਾ ਲਈ ਹੈ |

Very well said Baask jeeo. It's pretty bad to see Ashiques within Gursikhs. How can one attain Vaheguru by indulging in Ashiques?

The White chador of a Gursikh's character should always remain stainless. Free communication before Anand Karaj should not be going on as it can make the relationship dirty. Intimacy between couples is reserved only for post-Anand-Karaj period. Those who follow this Hukam always would stay in Chardi Kala.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib Kulbir Singh Jeeo,

The only justice there is either beheading or stoning them to death, not only the "Aashqs", but also the elder Gursikhs who don't do anything to help stop these Aashqees, but rather let it slide away and ignore. Maybe then these hypocrites will stop and would refrain from committing Kurehtaan, when true justice is served to them, ie beheading and stoning them to death.

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The only justice there is either beheading or stoning them to death, not only the "Aashqs", but also the elder Gursikhs who don't do anything to help stop these Aashqees, but rather let it slide away and ignore. Maybe then these hypocrites will stop and would refrain from committing Kurehtaan, when true justice is served to them, ie beheading and stoning them to death.

bro, we are not muslims thats what they do.

What you just said is totally against Gurmat.

Are you a muslim on sikh forum?

Baask, AKJ here in the UK are wrong in a lot of ways but why would you want to resort to hateful actions? Just keep your distance from them if you do not like what they are doing. Humility, Sweet Speech, Compassion and Tolerance are important in Sikhi/Gurmat, without it we are animals. The whole point in Gurmat is to elevate the mind to an angelic level while remaining as the dust of all (humble). Without Compassion, Naam will not be effective.

ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਭਜਨੁ ਦਇਆ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਉ ਮੁਖਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਹਿਗਾ ॥੨॥
You do not remember the Lord, or vibrate upon Him in meditation, and you do not practice compassion; you shall be beaten on your face. ||2||

"bhai",
I am not a Muslim. I am only trying to live by the example of Sant Maghar Singh jee. Please read the following:

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Hukam to Maintain High Moral
Character

In the absence of barracks and camps, the
Sikh soldiers were staying at the houses of
French civilians. For this reason, Sant
Maghar Singh jee had given strict
instructions to all Sikh soldiers to maintain
a high moral character and not give bad
name to Sikhi by indulging in Kaamic
activities. Sant jee said it very clearly, “If we
see any Sikh soldier committing an anti-
Gurmat Kaamic action, we will right away
shoot such person and if any of you see us
doing anything wrong, you must shoot us
and if you don’t shoot us for our anti-
Gurmat Kaamic action, then we will
certainly shoot you.”
This was a very strict Hukam but it was very
much required because such mistakes were
common for soldiers in those days. It was
considered to be important to fulfill the
carnal needs of the soldiers engaged in
fighting the enemy. There are many stories
of Japanese soldiers sexually exploiting
Korean and Chinese women during the 2nd
world war. Same way, such atrocities used
to get committed by most soldiers of those
times.
Another factor was that most young men of
Europe had been recruited to join army
and fight the enemy. The cities were empty
of young men in those times and for this
reason, young women were driven to
transgression by their carnal desires. But
such sinful activity is unthinkable for a Sikh
and in order to save them from
transgressing, Sant jee issued such strict
Hukam of shooting any Sikh soldier
indulged in Kaamic activity.

Soldier Mansha Singh Faces Temptation

This story was narrated by one of the
companion of Sant jee whose name was
Bhai Mansha Singh. One day, Sant jee
before going to the war front, asked
Mansha Singh to stay behind and do
cooking. After Sant jee had left, the girl who
lived in the neighbouring house came over
and asked Mansha Singh if he needed any
help. Her intentions were not pure but
Mansha Singh was able to resist her
advances. He dryly replied in negative and
the girl left.
A little while later she came back again and
asked Mansha Singh if he needed anything.
Mansha Singh could sense what need she
was referring to but he had been doing
Sangat of a Gurmukh and for this reason,
he was not led astray. This time he
addressed her as sister and said that he
did not need anything. The girl left but
someone complained to Sant jee when he
came back that a girl had been visiting
Mansha Singh during the day.
Sant jee came home and took hold of his
gun and ordered Mansha Singh to stand by
the wall. He further ordered him to start
doing Vaheguru Simran and informed him
that he was going to shoot him.
Mansha Singh humbly replied that it would
be a pleasure to die at the hands of Sant
jee but he wished to explain about the
girl’s visits to their house. When Mansha
Singh narrated the whole story of how she
tried to seduce him and how he refused
her advances, Sant jee was extremely
pleased. He got up and embraced Mansha
Singh and gave him many blessings.
It was because of presence of such
Gurmukhs like Sant Maghar Singh jee and
Bau Mal Singh jee that ordinary Sikh
soldiers maintained high moral character
during such trying times.

www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=428

Sant jee had given a strict Hukam to maintain a high moral character. He openly said that those engaged in any Kaamic activity would be shot point blank. This almost happened to Mansha Singh jee. We should not be so lax and let our youth run wild, flirt, kiss, have relationships, and think it is okay, and we just stand there and watch and not do or say anything. The youth know that it is wrong to do so, yet doesn't care! THEY ARE NOT NAIVE, AS WE MAY ASSUME!

Baask, why don't you jap Naam and ask Guru Sahib the perfect way of resolving a problem? If your heart is there then Guru Sahib will answer you. Otherwise, there are better ways of resolving such problems when a Sikh has committed paaps, which is by boycotting them or excluding them from the Jatha until they ask for forgiveness and to be accepted (ardas/amrit). Violence is only to be used to Protect Others (Parupkaari) or in a Dharam Yudh. In any other case, Sweet Speech, Humility and Compassion are powerful weapons which can shake the foundation of any mind to humble them.

ਗਰੀਬੀ ਗਦਾ ਹਮਾਰੀ ॥
Humility is my spiked club.
ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨੁ ਛਾਰੀ ॥
My dagger is to be the dust of all men's feet.
ਇਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੋ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਵੇਕਾਰੀ ॥
No evil-doer can withstand these weapons.
ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਏਹ ਗਲ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧॥
The Perfect Guru has given me this understanding. ||1||

and -

ਸਹਣ ਸੀਲ ਸੰਤੰ ਸਮ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਦੁਰਜਨਹ ॥
The Saints are tolerant and good-natured; friends and enemies are the same to them.
ਨਾਨਕ ਭੋਜਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੇਣ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਆਵਧ ਹੋਇ ਉਪਤਿਸਟਤੇ ॥੨੭॥
O Nanak, it is all the same to them, whether someone offers them all sorts of foods, or slanders them, or draws weapons to kill them. ||27||

B.Singh jeeo,

it is not compassion to just ignore something you see happening in front of your eyes, nor is this humility. Would Guru Sahib just push sucj a case away? Would Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj just "ignore" it? By doing so, you arr giving the corrupt and spoiled young ones and encouragement and letting them continue wuth their wrongdoings! No Sharam whatsoever! Abd you are saying juay ignore, let it slide by and let them do what they want? This is not Nimartaa or Dyaa, my friend. This is ignorance and hypocrisy. Don't run away from the problem, FACE IT!!! Why are the Sikhs today so reluctant and hesitant to take any action? You are making them feel as if it is okay to go out, get into relationships, converse with another, date, "like" each other, etc. What are the current leaders of A.K.J. doing to stop it, other than being bystanders and just caring about ranks and reputation and always being on top in Jatha? Why have they become gidhars? You're saying it is compassion to just let it slide by, ignore and treat them as if they are normal himan beings? This is a major paap they committ, abd you are saying it is okay for them to continue and we should be "humble" meaning let them do Kurehtaan? Is this "humble" to you? This is stupidity! Where is the modesty? Where is the Sharam?

When I said this part from my post - ' In any other case, Sweet Speech, Humility and Compassion are powerful weapons which can shake the foundation of any mind to humble them.' By that I meant take action in a non-violent manner, not sit back and look humble.

You can raise this issue up with elder Gursikhs in the Jatha such as Jarnail Singh, Raghbir Singh, Jagjit Singh, Tarsem Singh etc. There are a number of Gursikhs in midlands and up north that you can discuss this with to resolve. They also have group emails, so you can write up an article on the issue and send it to the group email to make the youth aware of their wrong actions. This is better than beheading them or stoning them to death. At least this way they might learn and change, the other way its too late as they are dead lol

Bask,

You are comparing having sexual relations with the opposite gender with simple chatting, and giving the same punishment of shooting/beheading them. You have misused Sant Magar Singh's story. That story is for a specific time and period, where the Singhs were staying at someones house.We are not Muslims where we behead someone for talking to the opposite gender, if that was true, Bhai Mansha Singh should have been slaughtered for even saying No to the women, because in saying No and stopping her advances he still talked to her. You are too extreme in your judgement, this is not good.

Obviously those that commit a Bujjer Kureit should be dealt with severely, i.e beaten up, face blackened, but no Sikh should be capital punishment for making a mistake. Satguru is all forgiving, we are not worthy of calling ourselves his Sikhs, he forgives millions of our sins.

I am not going to run away from my sister if she makes conversation, especially if I know she is strict in her rehat and has good morals. This type of extremist thinking is not good. Of course it is never known when our mind will waver, but if we are Pakai Rehat Vale "Sarblohi" Gursikhs ourselves how dare we look at our sisters with lust?

Please do not pollute this Gurmat Forum with such hateful, anti-Gurmat, extremist views.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh
Baask jeo tusi bahut wadia gal kiti, The youth these days, also in the Jatha call them self True gursikhs yet having kaam, krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankaar. There is only one way to take the new generation close to sikhi, that is to have strict, Hardcore rehat in the jatha no matter what people say to you like extremists,pakhandis etc. First of all only the most kamai wale gursikhs alive today should be given the sewa of participating in amrit sanchaars as punj pyare. Only such 5 gursikhs should be given the sewa of the 5 in amrit sanchaars all over the world, after that the punj pyare should choose only the worthy candidates for amrit. Remember it is always better when you have good quality not quantity. These days amrit is given to many people without testing the candidate if he is ready to achieve the gift of amrit, i feel like that the jatha wants more amrit dharis rather than to have more Rang ratre gursikhs. Most of the amrit dharis are either not keeping all the kakaars or are not reciting the nitnem banis, or are engaged in kaam ful activities. A another factor for the youth being like this is that the schools, universities, academies that the youth attend are epitome of Kaam. The Gore and the other staff of the school as well as other students inspire the younger generation of sikhs to become lustful by showing kids lustful movies and making them feel like it is okay to become active in lust.The biggest dis advantage of going to countries like Canada,USA, Uk,Australia etc. is that most of the foreign people are attracting the younger generation to be like them. These foreign people are assimilating the sikhs to their Manmukhi Practices. I think the only way to bring Khalsa panth back to track is to practise simran, recite bani, keep rehat while encouraging others to do so and to help palnt the seed of sikhi in the coming generations. This will keep the sikhs become fearless saint soldiers and have others look upon you like role models!

Baask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now
> I know that those do Aashqiaan themself, will try
> to defend it on here, or they would just refrain
> from posting here!


That is a very wild accusation. I don't see 90% of the forum members posting here. Are you trying to suggest that...... ?

Bhai Saheb jee, as much as I agree and accept the shortcomings of us youth, I totally refuse to comply with you and admit to being slightly disgusted by the way you speak of "elder gursikhs".

As times change, new methods must be deployed to deal with problems and problem makers. But to accuse older gurmukhs of encouraging and agreeing with the situations you write of is absolutely pathetic. I doubt this happens anywhere, be it UK, USA, Vancouver. Definitely not in T-dot.

On one hand we have the whole panth united and advocating the fight against capital punishment for our shining star, Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana and capital punishment as a whole, and you are suggesting such harsh measures for others? Veer jee, I think you fail to understand, that sometimes, it is a mistake or mistakes that spark off a light at the end of the tunnel and show individuals the right path to gurmat.

The only scenario I can imagine, where khalsa hands out death parsaad, is beadbi of Guroo Saheb, or tyrants who try to suppress others.

-Upkaar Singh

"gsingh",

------Admin cut for personal attack-------- Very good high morals values you have learnt, B.C. boy!
Now I am not saying women are not people, of course we should see Vaaheguroo's Jot in ALL, but this does not mean you start approaching Bibian and asking for their phone numbers, email addresses, adding them on facebook, texting, etc. There is a distance you keep from kuriyaan, you ignore them, which far better than approaching and talking to them.

Though this topic has been touched. On a personal level have been observing these modernized youths , this is what I observed in their mentality:

1."Whats wrong with having a bf/gf as long as we are not committing kurehit?"
2."How can I spend the rest of my life with someone know nothing about?"


The above 2 things is what I have observed such people use to "justify" this manmat, which will definately lead to tendikala ones life. Whats will the elder gursikhs here will say to counter such thinking patern?

Chota veer

Stoning or beheading is not the answer. We should however refrain from talking to anyone of the opposite sex unless it is absolutely necessary. Kaam is extremely powerful and what starts of as innocent so called 'brotherly/sisterly' chats, ends up being much more. I am not just saying this, I know from personal experience during my university years and when I was not so much into Sikhi at the time.

Talking to relatives is fine and saying Fateh to the opposite gender.

In the mid 90's a jatha Singh answered a question about contact with bibian at a Sikhi talk, and said we should even try and cross the road or keep our head lowered when we see a bibi approaching in the other direction. Many people mocked this Singh and thought he was fanatical. But if you think it about it makes perfect sense.

I can't talk for Bibian, but men I'd say succumb to kaamic activities much more readily and we always need to be on guard.

I might get some stick for this, but I'd go as far as saying that men and women should sit separately in the gurdwara during kirtan smagams where possible. Over the last decade or so, a new trend has begun where both genders sit together on stage or in the sangat. This never used to happen in the past. When Bibian performed kirtan all the men used to get off the stage apart from the table player.

gsingh wrote:
Satguru is all forgiving, we are not worthy
of calling ourselves his Sikhs, he forgives
millions of our sins.

What a baseless argument! Satguru is all forgiving, yes no doubt, but this does not mean you go around talking to bibian, chattibg, flirting, having wrong thoughts, getting into relationships, staring them down, then say "Satguru is all forgiving".

Logan Raam Khilonaa Jaanaa!

Upkaar Singh, I am not wrong in saying that thpse who are not posting on this thread do not flirt, chat with bibian, texting them, are into relatioships.

Gurus Babiha, yes that is all that has become of Jatha. It has become a race or a competition to get as many people Amritchak as possible. Their minimum requirement is at least 30 Abheylaakhis, or they won't do the Amrit Sanchaar. How is this any different than those Deray Baabey who openly say that today we would get 25,000 praanis Amritchak? It has just become a race and a competition!

bhul chuk maaf,

Daas;
Baask