Evolution & Sikhi

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

During one of the lectures today, the topic of evolution came up in class. Many of the students agreed with the theory of evolution and that there not being any Supreme Power being involved in the process. I, however, knew that according to Gurmat, this can not be true. Waheguru Himself manifested and created the whole universe, and each and every being. The false general belief that humans evolved from apes seems to lack evidence. Where I live, there is generally not any sangat, and I am the only Sikh in the whole university. Therefore, I don't have anyone to ask for information regarding Sikhi & evolution. What is the Sikhi's view on how the universe came to be? How were all the beings and creatures born?

Thank you ji


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[www.sikhanswers.com]

Like many other scientific theories the " Theory of Evolution" is very secular ( non religious) in nature. For example, evolutionist believe mind is merely the brain which has evolved from living matter. They dont accept
Gurmat-truth which states mind has origins in pre existing matter.(light) .

ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥
O my mind, you are the embodiment of the Divine Light - recognize your own origin.

They also believe everything is predetermined while we believe in Hukum(NaaM).
Darwin who was the founder of "Theory of Evolution "believed in a racial hierarchy . Meaning he believed
some races were more superior then others and thus evolved more quicker. This is complete manmat and goes against Gurmat; Guru Sahib says the following about Race.

mans sabh eyk pei Aneyk ko Bhramoa heh
The whole human race is the self-same but due to illusion, they appear different.
- Guru Gobind Singh Ji

There may be some truth in Evolution but overall many of the principles/beliefs of Evolution go against SIkhi.
Does this mean we cannot study Evolution? Of course not. The Puratan Singhs did not believe in the Hindu and Islamic beliefs/fairy tales of mans origins, yet they still studied these beliefs. Its important for us to educate ourselves on these popular beliefs so we can give a valid answer whenever questioned, but before we study these other beliefs we need to study GUrmat first and foremost.

Could you tell me which part of the evolution theory goes against Sikhi? I've always thought that this evolution theory vs. God -issue is essentially a Christian/western dilemma, since it's stated in the Bible that God created the Earth and all the species in six days about four thousand years ago. Another reason why some Christians find evolution hard to accept is that "God created man in his own image". So, traditionally, the western evolutionary theorists have been faced with the choice of either the Biblical version of God or atheism, and I can't blame them for choosing atheism.

BUT we have no such stories in Sikhi. Vaheguroo is not an old guy with beard sitting on the edge of the cloud who goes to rest every seventh day. Vaheguroo is present in all the life forms and their interactions. There is nothing but Vaheguroo. Everything is One and there's nothing outside it. Our minds, our bodies, every single atom and particle in the Universe contain Vaheguru's jot.

In Sukhmani Sahib it says that the universe is generated and supported through Naam... if this applies to the physical laws like gravity, then why not also to the dynamics of evolution? Why can't the binding and rebinding processes of DNA-strains producing evolutionary changes also be supported through Naam? Why can't the electro-chemical reactions creating thought processes in our brains be supported through Naam?

Evolution is a law of nature and there are tons of evidence to back it up (the only ones who claim there's no evidence are american creationists who've somehow managed to spread their propaganda elsewhere too). I don't want to go into too much detail on it.. for further reading, check out the Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.

Anyway, if I'm ranting, it's because I'm hoping that if someone doesn't know the least about the theory of evolution, then they also wouldn't go out proclaiming it to be false and without evidence. Just like the law of gravity isn't a matter of personal opinion, the theory (law?) of evolution shouldn't be seen as such either (criticism is allowed, as long as it's based on facts.. of which there aren't any). And as someone who believes in both God and evolution ie. doesn't believe them to be in contradiction, I also don't approve of the God vs. evolution setting, which has originally been laid out on one side by a bunch of prejudiced materialist scientists and on the other side people who value old fairytales more than the truth and common sense.

Richard Dawkins is a well known atheist so I dont understand why you would recommend his literature on
a religious forum?

Theory of evolution goes against Sikhi for the reasons I have previously mentioned
evolutionist believe mind is merely the brain which has evolved from living matter. They dont accept
Gurmat-truth which states mind has origins in pre existing matter.(light) .
ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥
O my mind, you are the embodiment of the Divine Light - recognize your own origin.

In addition, evolutionist believe that man is just like any other animal in which there physical
and psychological development is already pre-wired/pre-conditioned. While its true that through previous
karma, animals already have their destiny layed out from them, and they cant do much to change this destiny
, but humans on the other hand have the ability to take amrit and change our condition through the recitation of
naam.

I am not interested in any secular debate so dont consider a response.

sukhdeep singh, we all no that evolution is true and it would kind of ignorant to not believe in it. but this is all under vaheguroo jees hukam it is all his doing.

I read the theory of evolution many years ago and one of the notion it preaches is that species can evolute to higher species e.g. humans have originated from apes. This theory does not seem to be according to Gurmat because all the 8.4 million life forms were formed at once and not through evolution. Some life forms may be active and some dormant, at a given time but no life forms converted to other life forms. It just can't. Dogs cannot give birth to cats and insects cannot give birth to lizards.

The human form has Dasam Duaar, Nabh Kamal, that no other life form has. If we believe in theory of evolution, we will then have to believe that Dasam Duaar and Nabh Kamal were products of evolution and formed itself. Furthermore, matter is not animate and as thus does not have intelligence, nor it can think or plan. The theory of evolution is totally contrary to Gurmat. In the evolution theory, matter is intelligent and in Gurmat theory, matter is dead.

Kulbir Singh

WJKK WJKF

Pretty closed and narrow view presented so far by Kulbir Singh and Sukhdeep Singh jeeo considering the amount of shabads that talk of evolution , matter,and Bhai Gurdas Jee's varran talk of nature and how one is to learn from those laws.

Pasri Ath Ghani jeeo if you want something close to a realy study then please check download this book and have a close read of it:

[www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz]

An abosulte indepth , must read for this topic.

Quote

Pretty closed and narrow view presented so far by Kulbir Singh and Sukhdeep Singh jeeo considering the amount of shabads that talk of evolution , matter,and Bhai Gurdas Jee's varran talk of nature and how one is to learn from those laws.

NS jeeo, kindly quote some Shabads that talk about evolution.

Kulbir Singh

I believe in Gurbani it is written:
Aval Allah Noor Upea Kudrat Ke Sabh Bande
Ek Noor Te Subh Jag Upjeya Kaun Bhale Ko Mande? (sorry don't know how to post in punjabi, if anyone can teach me, that would be nice)

If we were all created with the force of that One Light, in an instant, then where does the theory of evolution plays its role. Evolution basically states that humans were apes before, and overtime, they developed into humans, same goes with other animals, they too took other structures and shapes. Correct if I'm wrong, does this not go against "Eky Noor"? Why would God take so long, millions of years, to make humans? Why would this be even necessary?

ਆਸਣੁ ਲੋਇ ਲੋਇ ਭੰਡਾਰ ॥
ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥

Here are the words of Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee from Khalsa Camp 2006 Questions & Answers:

Quote
Kulbir Singh
Gurbani does not recognise any concept or importance of time.

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥
Jo kich paayaa so ika vaar.

God has put everything into creation all at once. Bhai Sahib says he personally does not believe in Evolution. We believe in 8.4 million life forms. All at the same, at once, God created all the 8.4million life forms, and the number of life forms are not increasing or decreasing at a given time. Some scholarly or scientific minded Gursikhs say that at the time of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Jee there was 8.4 million life forms but now we have discovered many more, but that cannot be the case. Out of 8.4 million life forms, 4.2 million are on Earth and 4.2 million are in Water. Those life forms never change in number,do not increase or decrease. What can happen, is that some life forms become dormant, they still exist on Earth, but they are dormant, and at the Will of God they can come back at any time. For example it is said that Dinosaurs existed on this Earth many millions of years ago but they do not exist now.What is actually the case is that those life forms (e.g. dinosaurs) are still existing but they are in dormant form. When the time comes, at when and if God wills, they may come back.

Here is a link to download the audio: [www.mediafire.com] - first 5-6 minutes are relevant to this topic.

In science class I'm learning that everything has always been present here but it changes into other stuff. like when a tree dies and decays away it is recycled and is created into something else. We cannot say that evolution is not real cause it is true and ithappens right infront of our eyes. Evolution occurs so that a species can survive better like salmon used have shorter back fins before but the ones with the shortest fins kept on didn't without reproduces because they could not swim up stream so overtime salmon kept on getting longer back fins

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read the theory of evolution many years ago and
> one of the notion it preaches is that species can
> evolute to higher species e.g. humans have
> originated from apes. This theory does not seem to
> be according to Gurmat because all the 8.4 million
> life forms were formed at once and not through
> evolution. Some life forms may be active and some
> dormant, at a given time but no life forms
> converted to other life forms. It just can't. Dogs
> cannot give birth to cats and insects cannot give
> birth to lizards.
>
> The human form has Dasam Duaar, Nabh Kamal, that
> no other life form has. If we believe in theory of
> evolution, we will then have to believe that Dasam
> Duaar and Nabh Kamal were products of evolution
> and formed itself. Furthermore, matter is not
> animate and as thus does not have intelligence,
> nor it can think or plan. The theory of evolution
> is totally contrary to Gurmat. In the evolution
> theory, matter is intelligent and in Gurmat
> theory, matter is dead.
>
> Kulbir Singh


I was always fascinated by the theory of evolution because it put me in awe of the complexity and perfection of Akaal Purakh's work. I never really considered that it could conflict with Gurmat, although I know that certain analysis' of this theory might. For example, many people believe that it demonstrates that there is no Creator because everything simply formed itself through fluke, or through process of elimination and adaptation, or because biological process functioned on their own to make evolution happen over time. But from a gurmat perspective, do we not believe that Sachey Patshah has already planned out everything? That the universe is already running according to Vaheguru's Hukam? One of the things which I thought was preached by gurbani was that Akal Purakh has set the world in motion and watches it play out. Also, that Vaheguru works inside of everything. When a seed is planted, there is already a set of DNA working inside of it which determines what kind of plant it will be, how it will form... do we necessarily have to deny the existence of DNA to believe that Vaheguru is the cause of everything, or can this not simply be part of his mysterious, deep, complex workings? So evolution, ultimately, could be considered another part of this game.

The only thing which seems to conflict with the idea that humans evolved over time from is, as Bhai Kulbir Singh's written, that only humans have dasam duar. Then it would be hard to say that there was one point when humans became distinct from animals and Guru Sahib planted in this form, Nabh Kamal. It is strange, though, that so many skeletons have found which seem to prove that even humans evolved from a previous species. Vaheguru's game is simply too vast.

all the 8.4 million life forms were formed at once and not through evolution. Some life forms may be active and some dormant, at a given time but no life forms converted to other life forms.


Bhai Sahib, could you possibly expand on this part of your post. I did not know that this was actually stated in gurbani or Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaaran.

WJKK WJKF

Kulbir Singh Jeeo and others reading this please please take time out and download /print or read this book it's a must for this topic:

[www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz]

reference which talk about evolution where Gurbani agrees and disagree are clearly set out, for example on agreement is on
page 75 -- on part of species having potential for evolution within their own species.

Chapter 9 discusses - how far ahead the Guru's were from evoloution theoriests - about 5 centuries!!!

Talk of Bhai Gurdas Jees; Varn and laws of nature and how man has ignored - on page 152 even a verse from Bhai Nand Lal confirms too page 153

Page 53 - process of evolution clearly explained as per SGGS panna 1034 - some 48 lines.

Modern science is accepting SGGS version slowly and surely and most probably will continue to do so.

Quote
Kulbir Singh
all the 8.4 million life forms were formed at once and not through evolution. Some life forms may be active and some dormant, at a given time but no life forms converted to other life forms

Nowadays, many breeders of different animals seem to be trying to "create" new species by crossing two different animals. So, according to what you've stated, this new "species" has already been created, and is already included in the 8.4 million life forms, and for the time being is dormant?

How can we explain that a totally new species, something that's never existed before, is part of the 8.4 million life forms?

For example, a "horse-donkey", otherwise known as a mule is an example of this. Other animals include: ligers (tiger + lion), tigons (lion + tiger), and many of the dog breeds that we know of today, like the Labrador retriever (golden retriever + Labrador).

So, have these "new" species already been included in the 8.4 million life forms, or are we creating more, so now there are more species, that previously weren't counted in the 8.4 lakh???

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

One thing is that evolution would go against the theory of four Jug's. Satjug is said to be over 100's of thousands of years ago where evolution states human beings came into being 30-40 thousand years ago. Also, evolution states that at the beginning of time, humans were most primitive, resorted to cannibalism, horrible individuals basically. But we know that Satjug was when there was most peace, and most truth, and definitely not "primitive" beings. It's really hard to trust scientific theories that change every 5-10 years. A few decades back scientists stated that the universe was thousands of years old. Then it became millions, then hundred million, then billion, then hundred billion. I'm pretty sure in another few years they'll change their hypothesis again, because there's no way to understand Akal Purakh's universe, they will keep on guessing and guessing with their different theories but will never be able to find the answer.

From the little I do know about Evolution (and Sikhi for that matter) I would say it does to some degree contradict Sikh philosophy.

Why?

- it would go against the idea of the 4 jugs. (as has been said by GurmanSingh)
- it also would not make sense to see where God fits into the theory of evolution. the theory of Evolution is very materialistic and reductionist which is why most scientists (that believe in evolution) are normally atheists.

- also how could amoebae (which presumably do not have minds/souls etc) give rise to humans that do have minds/souls?

I think one of the ways in which Sikhi could relate to the theory of evolution is if Waheguru along with his creation is still evolving - but obviously there are problems with that.

I don't really know how this topic could be tackled. I mean to deny the theory of evolution makes us look very silly. It is pretty much a PROVEN fact these days. It also makes us seem very contradictory in the sense we would nitpick scientific facts that don't go against Gurmat to the ones that do.

Didn't the theory of evolution came to be after Darwin 'discovered' the process of so-called 'natural selection', as opposed God placing his beings in different settings. How much of the below is true?



How is this possible? How does the monkey become a full able-bodied human? And if this is so, why are there still apes walking around? Why did they not develop? Or is because they did not adapt further than their already sophisticated lives? How does a monkey become a human? And why not other animals? Evolutionists believe certain animals have stayed in their same shape and form ever since dinosaurs, such as a turtle, why so? Why did such animals not develop into something else? Can they give an explanation? Also, how did all the creatures and beings came to be? How did it start? If they believe in the big bang theory, then how did the big bang even start? Who started it?

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji "Gurmat Naam Abhyiaas Kamaai" on page 33 states the following:

ਸਾਇੰਸ ਵਿਦਯਾ ਦੀ ਚੁੰਧਿਆਈ ਹੋਈ ਅਕਲ ਦੇ ਚੌੜ ਚਾਨਣੀ ਸਿਆਣੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਆਕ੍ਰਖਣੀ ਅਸਰ ਤੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਕੇ ਹੀ ਮੁਨਕਰ ਹਨ, ਪਰੰਤੂ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ ਦੇ ਰਚਤ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਇਕ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦੇ ਮਿਕਨਾਤੀਸੀ ਅਸਰ ਦੇ ਬੜੇ ਕਾਇਲ ਹਨ । ਜੈਸੇ ਕਿ ਅਸਾਡੇ ਆਮ ਜਨਤਾ ਅਪਣਾਏ ਜਰਣਲਿਸਟ ਜੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਲੇਖ ਵਿਖੇ ਇਸ ਬਿਧ ਇਲਾਈਆਂ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਨ:

'ਇਹ ਜਹਾਨ ਵਿਚ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਤਾਕਤਾਂ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਸਾਡੇ ਉਤੇ ਅਸਰ ਕਰ ਰਹੀਆਂ ਹਨ । ਜ਼ਮੀਨ, ਖਾਣਾ, ਪੀਣਾ, ਹਵਾ, ਚੰਦ, ਸੂਰਜ, ਤਾਰੇ, ਰੁਤ, ਬੇਅੰਤ ਜਾਨਵਰ, ਬੇਅੰਤ ਆਦਮੀ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਹਰ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਪੈਦਾਇਸ਼ ਸਭ ਸਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਅਸਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਸਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਦੀ ।'

ਇਹ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਕਸੀਰ ਅਸਰ ਮਾਯਾ ਨਾਲ ਮਨੂਰ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਬਿਰਤੀਆਂ ਤੇ ਬੁਧੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਪੋਂਹਦਾ ਹੋ ਨਹੀਂ । ਨੀਚੇ ਦਰਜੇ ਦੇ ਕਬ-ਪਿਚੀ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਸਰ ਝਟ ਪਟ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ । ਤ੍ਰੈਗੁਣੀ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਸਰ ਨੂੰ ਤ੍ਰੈਗੁਣੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਦੀ ਘਾੜਤ ਬੁਧੀ ਇਹ ਦਮ ਕਬੂਲ ਕਰ ਲੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ । ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਉਕਤ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਵਲ ਉਹ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਖਿਚੀਂਦੀ ਤੁਰੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ । ਪਰਬਲ ਰੁਚੀ ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਬਾਰੰਬਾਰ ਉਹ ਉੁਹਨਾਂ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਰਸਨ ਲਈ ਹੱਥ ਪਸਾਰਦੀ ਹੈ । ਪਰਸਨ ਦੀ ਦੇਰ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਤਾਬੜਤੋੜ ਅਸਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭਾਵੇਂ ਭੈੜਾ ਅਸਰ ਹੀ ਹੋਵੇ । ਪਰ ਹਨੇਰੇ ਤਾਂ ਇਗ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਬੁਰਾ ਅਸਰ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਭੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਦਾਰਥਾਂ ਵਲ ਜਾਣ ਬੁਝ ਕੇ ਦੌੜੀਦਾ ਹੈ । ਤੁਰੀਆ ਗੁਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਲ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਲ ਭੇਖਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਰੁਚੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦੀ, ਉਹ ਇਸ ਅਲੌਕਕ ਅਤੇ ਅਮੋਲਕ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਨੂੰ ਪਰਸਦੇ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਫੇਰ ਪਾਰਸ ਕਲਾ ਦਾ ਆਕਰਖਣੀ ਅਸਰ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਹੋਵੇ:
ਲੋਹਾ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਹਿਰਨ ਹੋਇ ਕੈਸੇ ਜਉ ਪਾਰਸਹਿ ਨ ਪਰਸੈ ॥
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਕੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੯੭੩

HS1NGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the little I do know about Evolution (and
> Sikhi for that matter) I would say it does to some
> degree contradict Sikh philosophy.

>
> Why?
>
> - it would go against the idea of the 4 jugs. (as
> has been said by GurmanSingh)

> - it also would not make sense to see where God
> fits into the theory of evolution. the theory of
> Evolution is very materialistic and reductionist
> which is why most scientists (that believe in
> evolution) are normally atheists.
>
> - also how could amoebae (which presumably do not
> have minds/souls etc) give rise to humans that do
> have minds/souls?
>
> I think one of the ways in which Sikhi could
> relate to the theory of evolution is if Waheguru
> along with his creation is still evolving - but
> obviously there are problems with that.
>
> I don't really know how this topic could be
> tackled. I mean to deny the theory of evolution
> makes us look very silly. It is pretty much a
> PROVEN fact these days. It also makes us seem very
> contradictory in the sense we would nitpick
> scientific facts that don't go against Gurmat to
> the ones that do.


I disagree ; Gurbani is way way advanced we yet to need some enlightend Gurmukhs to take us forward.
If we nitpick scientific facts that don't go against Gurmat then we're not so far from muslims cos they do that for a fact. Read the
book i enclose link of above and tell me if the author has nitpicked anyhwere.

ns, since everyone does not have time and cant read the book you suggested, it would be nice if you post the central idea of what it says about evolution. someone could turn around and ask you to read 40 books of bhai randhir singh or bhai vir singh and ask you to find proof against evolution from these books.

and pls post some gurbani in favour of evolution. it is easy to post a one liner rejecting other people's posts, without any logic or backup.

WJKK WJKF

Bhaguati Jeeo,

I already did so in response to Kulbir Singh jee's above - -secondly sangat jeeo it's isnt fair just to conclude the theme to the author who has put in such hard work. Similarly authors such as Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee- their works really need to be understood and i'm afraid in our busy lives we need time even -5 -15 mins regular reading per day will do the trick.

Quote

Pretty closed and narrow view presented so far by Kulbir Singh and Sukhdeep Singh jeeo considering the amount of shabads that talk of evolution , matter,and Bhai Gurdas Jee's varran talk of nature and how one is to learn from those laws.

NS jeeo,

You had written that many Shabads talk about evolution and that Sukhdeep Singh and I had written a narrow minded view about evolution. I asked you to provide some Shabads that talk about evolution. You in return gave us a link to a book but I could not find any Shabad in this book that talks about evolution or that one jooni can evolve to another jooni as per Darwin's evolution theory. Could you kindly provide some Shabads that support the Darwin's evolution theory.

Kulbir Singh

WJKK WJKF

Kulbir Singh Jeeo ,

I am not learned enough to provide with quotes you desire or perhaps looking for a challange as you may assume I have the opposite view.

You seem to be taking my comments out of context where I mentioned about you and Sukhdeep Jee's comments being narrow and closed on theory of evolution and this thread. Hence that is exactly why I presented you the works of this book which explains not just evoultion theories, but all others as well with comparitive teaching from SGGS Jee. Some one has presented 177 pages on this very topic and we seem to just brush it off on a web thread - not fair and it doesn't do justice dear Kulbir Jeeo.

Sometime we need to go out of our own thinking and interpetations to understand and learn from others too --or not?

WJKK WJKF

Here's a shabad from SGGS which I'm sure your aware of but my interpeatation relating to Darwin's theory as below:


ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲ ੧ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਮਾਟੀ ਭਇਆ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਨੂਰੁ ॥ ਅਉਗਣ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਾਗੂ ਭਏ ਕੂਰਿ ਵਜਾਵੈ ਤੂਰੁ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਭਰਮਾਈਐ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਡੋਬੇ ਪੂਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਰਹੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਸੂਚਾ ਸੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਭੈ ਸਚਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਆਉ ॥ ਸਚੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਾਉ ॥੨॥ ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਮੈਲਾ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਸਾਚਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਿਆ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਭੂਤ ਸਚਿ ਭੈ ਰਤੇ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਚੀ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਉਗਣ ਵੀਸਰੇ ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਪਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥੪॥੧੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 19-20}


From the True Lord came the air (hydrogen and oxygen), and from the air came water (H2O).


From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.


The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3||



this is in line with darwins theory/natural selection/evolution/tree of life...

that all life first started from complex chemical molecules; which came from simple (chemical) molecules such as hydrogen/oxygen. Guru sahib has not bothered with all these intricate details of how, from water, the three worlds came about, (maybe because guru ji already knew that science would figure it out!- due to it not being that difficult to figure out-).

There're two other shabads in Guru Granth about the gradual development of the Universe, as far as I know. One is in Raag Maru: "Arbad Narbad Dhundhukara...". It goes step by step through the development. Another one mentions the starting of life, in "mael", i.e., dust, dirt.

Sikhi gives both sides, the spiritual and the scientific. There are numerous Shabads in Gurbani that bear this out. For example, Guru Nanak refers to the Hindu belief of the earth being supported by a bull and says, No, a bull cannot take such weight. All planets are held in space according to cosmic laws - "Santokh thaap rakhiaa jin soot" (Japji, pauri 16). He refers to the need for irrigation of land and asks why is rain necessary when water is there in the earth? He then answers that, to reach everywhere, it evaporates from the seas and travels overhead to drop as rain - "jaisi dharti oopar meghula barsat hai kia dharti madhay paani nahi" (SGGS, p162). Guru Nanak's fascination on seeing changing seasons, the moon drawing light from the sun, multiplicity of universes, galaxies within each universe, life existing only on the earth and its sky, creation first of air and from it water (which science says is by chemical action involving oxygen and Hydrogen, creation of the earth by a process that is now called the 'Big Bang' by science, are some of the other examples. There are more. Gurbani thus covers both sides. We may look at Gurbani as the confluence, in fact the fountain-head, of spirituality and science.

NS jeeo, the Shabad you quoted does not support your earlier assertion that there are several Shabads in favour of the evolution theory. Darwin's evolution theory concerns evolution of living species to higher species as per the principle of 'survival of the fittest'. The Shabad you quoted does not talk about one life-form evolving to another one. Darwin's evolution theory does not talk about air being created first and water coming next and so on, as the Shabad says.

The truth of the matter is that Darwin's theory of evolution is not compatible with Gurmat. Man did not evolve from Baandars (monkeys) as Darwin has suggested.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh

Quote
Kulbir Singh
Man did not evolve from Baandars (monkeys) as Darwin has suggested.

Haha lol. I remember several years ago at school we were taught about so-called Evolution in Biology class. I wasn't Amritdhari then, but this theory still did not sit kindly with me for some reason. I came home and asked my Dad about it, he said:

"Eh scientists jo marjee kahnde rain, ma ta nai koi baandar to aiaya"
"These scientists can carry on saying whatever they want, I did not come from any monkey."

I enjoyed reading the posts in this thread.

Also human beings can get powers of riddhiya siddhiya, and at higher most stages Akaal Shaktis. Does any monkey have riddhisiddis? We did not evolve these mystical powers.

I personally believe we should not try and bring Sikhi down to so called scientific level, or try and make Sikhi fit with these man-made theories, Gurbani and Sikhi is well beyond science. If there is something that not not contradict Gurmat, for example this post: Meditation stronger than drugs for pain relief then sure why not accept it, but otherwise, as I have heard Gurmukhs say, "Where Science ends, Sikhi begins".

Har Ki Gat Neh Kouoo Jaane
Jogi Jati Tapi Pach Haare Ar Boh Log Siaane

The science and scientists are still trying to measure the length and breadth of the Universe. See the following link

Scale of Universe

This gives some sense of where we sit in HIS creation. As a kiram jant.....

How can the scientists who can't even see beyond a certain length define how and why Waheguru ji created us.