Worst and Best time to be Quiet

Sangat is requested to answer the following questions:

1. What's the worse time to be quiet?

2. What's the best time to be quiet?

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

1. What's the worse time to be quiet?
ਮਾਤ ਲੋਕ ਮੇਂ ਮੌਨ ਨਾ ਰਹੇਂ
2. What's the best time to be quiet?
ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!

1) In Sangat: Naam Abyass or Keertan

2) Outside of Sangat:
Especially in arguments with others
"Bad bibad kaho sio na kijeh, rasna nam rasian pijeh"

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sangat is requested to answer the following
> questions:
>
> 1. What's the worse time to be quiet?
>
> 2. What's the best time to be quiet?
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh

Ideally a Gursikh should never stop reciting Naam so inside they should never be quiet.

In regards to other talking, the worsest time to stay quite is when there is an injustice , or somebody is committing some type of beadi or anti- Gurmat practice. When people resort to Manmat one should speak out, and if they are unwilling to listen then this is the best time to stay quiet.One cannot force their beliefs on others in Sikhi so its best to stay quiet in such situations otherwise we lose qualities.

Speaking excessively should be limited. Guru Sahib has given us a hukum we should not speak so much and the words we speak should be in strict accordance with Gurmat. So if we speak to much then there is high possibility that are thoughts will go outside of Gurmat, and the mind becomes chanchal; less speaking leads to a steady mind.

Also in regards to spiritual experiences. If we have not experienced any spiritual encounters entailed in Gurbani then this is the worst time to stay quiet. We should be begging Guru Sahib to give us sinners a spiritual life, but when Guru Sahib blesses us we should not brag, talk about experiences openly,etc. When getting blessings such as reciting lots of Naam SImran or Bani, having Darshan, etc this is the best time to stay quiet.

ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਰਵਾ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ ਜਲ ਕੀ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਚਰੈ ਖਜੂਰਿ ॥੧॥
ਕਾਂਇ ਰੇ ਬਕਬਾਦੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਛਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥
Some say that God is so close, and some say that He is so far away.
Let's just say that the fish climbed out of the water and up a date tree. ||1||
Why speak such ignorant rubbish? The one who has found God, keeps it discreetly to himself. ||1||

There are some people and groups who like to make an exhibition of their " spiritual encounters" this is really manmant . Bragging or showing ones spirituality is no different then reciting "Sohang" ( I am God) mantra.

Worst time be quiet? 1. When you see someone being unfairly treated, or disrespect of Guru Jee or Gursikhs is happening.
Best time to be quiet? 2. When hearing your own nindiya, being spoken rudely too, or being told off/scolded by elders.

Excellent responses! All answers are correct and it's wonderful to see different take on these questions, by different Gursikhs.

1. What's the worse time to be quiet?

With great difficulty, we have been blessed with the Human form. It is one of the 8.4 million life forms. It's very rare. Then Sikhi jeevan too is very rare out of Human form. We have been blessed with Guru Sahib's Sikhi, Amrit Gurbani and Amrit Naam. The month of Sawan, when rain falls liberally, comes once in a year. Same way, with great fortune we are blessed with occasions when Gursikhs get together to chant Naam and sing Gurbani in Kirtan. Amritvela is the worse time to be quiet (audibly or inaudibly) and not chanting Naam. Same way to be present in Kirtan and keeping quiet is such a misfortune. Akhand Kirtan is not musical concert where the audience is supposed to be mere listener. In Akhand Kirtan, as much as possible, one should sing Gurbani with Rasna, and Japp Naam within.

Amritvela is the worse time to sleep. Be quiet (of Naam) and sleep at any other time but not at Amritvela, when naturally, Amrit Barkha (rainfall) occurs. Bhai Jagtar Singh once disclosed a mystical secret that at Amritvela, unseen, invisible-to-the-common-eye, special Amrit Barkha occurs all over, and one should never miss this, by sleeping or by not alertly indulging in Naam-Gurbani.

2. What's the best time to be quiet?

When facing such a person, who is not destined to realize the truth of Gurmat, one should not preach Gurmat. One should not cast pearls before swine or throw that which is holy to dogs (New Testament). According to Gurbani, only the Jauhry (merchant of diamonds) knows the price of a diamond. Therefore, arguing with such person who is not destined to realize the truth of Gurmat (Gurbani calls them Moorakh), is futile. One should keep quiet, unless of course, it is a Panthik issue or if it is a question of honour of Panth. Everyday, arguing with the foolish should be avoided and as Bhai Gurman Singh pointed out, such time should is well spent on drinking the divine substance of Naam.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Well from my previous post everybody can tell this person is very very new to posting messages. Sorry for messing up my previous response.
Kulbir Singh said " Akhand Kirtan is not
> musical concert where the audience is supposed to
> be mere listener. In Akhand Kirtan, as much as
> possible, one should sing Gurbani with Rasna, and
> Japp Naam within."

Veerji I do not agree with this statement. Yes if you are sitting behind kirtania and on stage then you should sing the shabad but if one is sitting far away from stage then if one wants they can listen to kirtan with eyes closed and do simran within. This is personal experience listening to kirtan makes you feel very anand-mai, anand you get from listening cannot be described you are in awe how guruji has put all the emotions in shabad and it shows us the path to do prembhagati, benti, regret our actions and on and on. Actually let me put it like this your soul guides you, sometimes it just wants to sit and drink the amrit bani with full concentration beleive me the waheguru simran in between the shabad or strolling away from one shabad to another without completing the first one disrupts this concentration and anand. Other times the soul wants to sing the shabad and then it gets different anand but listening to kirtan that anand cannot be described. It is just my viewpoint that listening to shabad with concentration is very blissful and does not require that your tongue should sing the shabad.
GK

Quote

Veerji I do not agree with this statement. Yes if you are sitting behind kirtania and on stage then you should sing the shabad but if one is sitting far away from stage then if one wants they can listen to kirtan with eyes closed and do simran within. This is personal experience listening to kirtan makes you feel very anand-mai, anand you get from listening cannot be described you are in awe how guruji has put all the emotions in shabad and it shows us the path to do prembhagati, benti, regret our actions and on and on. Actually let me put it like this your soul guides you, sometimes it just wants to sit and drink the amrit bani with full concentration beleive me the waheguru simran in between the shabad or strolling away from one shabad to another without completing the first one disrupts this concentration and anand. Other times the soul wants to sing the shabad and then it gets different anand but listening to kirtan that anand cannot be described. It is just my viewpoint that listening to shabad with concentration is very blissful and does not require that your tongue should sing the shabad.
GK

Perhaps, my previous post was a bit misleading. Doing Kirtan with Rasna in Sangat and japping Naam within, is the best combination (till mystical Avasthas of Dasam Duaar) but at times, you want to listen and do Abhyaas within. That's fine too. Either way, you are not quiet. If your tongue is not speaking, then your mind is doing Jaap within inside.

What's not right is to be quiet (audibly or inaudibly) and not Singing Gurbani or Japping Naam within and staying in Maya related thoughts.

Kulbir Singh

Quote
Kulbir Singh
Bhai Jagtar Singh once disclosed a mystical secret that at Amritvela, unseen, invisible-to-the-common-eye, special Amrit Barkha occurs all over, and one should never miss this, by sleeping or by not alertly indulging in Naam-Gurbani.

Vaheguru! The lazy ones like me are really missing out. Is this what is meant by pangtees below?

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਰਾਤਿ ਕਥੂਰੀ ਵੰਡੀਐ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਮਿਲੈ ਨ ਭਾਉ ||
fareedhaa raath kathooree vanddeeai suthiaa milai n bhaao |
Fareed, musk is released at night. Those who are sleeping do not receive their share.

ਜਿੰਨ੍ਾ ਨੈਣ ਨØੀਦ੍ਰਾਵਲੇ ਤਿੰਨ੍ਾ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਕੁਆਉ ||੮੦|| (bindi is not displaying correctly on neendraavale)
jinnaa nain naaeedhraavalae thinnaa milan kuaao |80|
Those whose eyes are heavy with sleep - how can they receive it? ||80||

vaheguru vaheguru
i think what bhai sahib ji mentioned about amrit varkha, is clearly explained by guru sahib in shabad below if dass is not wrong !!


ਸਲੋਕਮਃ2॥
ਅਠੀਪਹਰੀਅਠਖੰਡਨਾਵਾਖੰਡੁਸਰੀਰੁ॥
ਤਿਸੁਵਿਚਿਨਉਨਿਧਿਨਾਮੁਏਕੁਭਾਲਹਿਗੁਣੀਗਹੀਰੁ॥
ਕਰਮਵੰਤੀਸਾਲਾਹਿਆਨਾਨਕਕਰਿਗੁਰੁਪੀਰੁ॥
ਚਉਥੈਪਹਰਿਸਬਾਹਕੈਸੁਰਤਿਆਉਪਜੈਚਾਉ॥
ਤਿਨਾਦਰੀਆਵਾਸਿਉਦੋਸਤੀਮਨਿਮੁਖਿਸਚਾਨਾਉ॥
ਓਥੈਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਵੰਡੀਐਕਰਮੀਹੋਇਪਸਾਉ॥
ਕੰਚਨਕਾਇਆਕਸੀਐਵੰਨੀਚੜੈਚੜਾਉ॥
ਜੇਹੋਵੈਨਦਰਿਸਰਾਫਕੀਬਹੁੜਿਨਪਾਈਤਾਉ॥
ਸਤੀਪਹਰੀਸਤੁਭਲਾਬਹੀਐਪੜਿਆਪਾਸਿ॥
ਓਥੈਪਾਪੁਪੁੰਨੁਬੀਚਾਰੀਐਕੂੜੈਘਟੈਰਾਸਿ॥
ਓਥੈਖੋਟੇਸਟੀਅਹਿਖਰੇਕੀਚਹਿਸਾਬਾਸਿ॥
ਬੋਲਣੁਫਾਦਲੁਨਾਨਕਾਦੁਖੁਸੁਖੁਖਸਮੈਪਾਸਿ॥1॥


[www.sikhitothemax.com]

it is silly to stay quiet for too long if people are being rude or unfair to you, you can ignore someone a few times, but it they keep doing it, you have to say something, if you can't stand up for yourself, how are you going to do it for anyone else?!

good to stay quiet while prayer, when someone else is talking (ie don't interrupt), stay quiet if you are around anyone who is a quiet person (ie. being considerate), stay quiet in class when your teacher is teaching you, just stay quiet in general because talking too much is a waste of energy, if you don't have anything productive to say just don't say it, stay quiet.

don't stay quiet when anyone is being treated badly so speak up and do the right thing then, don't quietly enjoy watching people engage in arguments or fights, i mean staying quiet there and letting it happen and watching it or smiling shows you are a person whp enjoys watching others in problems

gk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well from my previous post everybody can tell this
> person is very very new to posting messages. Sorry
> for messing up my previous response.
> Kulbir Singh said " Akhand Kirtan is not
> > musical concert where the audience is supposed
> to
> > be mere listener. In Akhand Kirtan, as much as
> > possible, one should sing Gurbani with Rasna,
> and
> > Japp Naam within."
>
> Veerji I do not agree with this statement. Yes if
> you are sitting behind kirtania and on stage then
> you should sing the shabad but if one is sitting
> far away from stage then if one wants they can
> listen to kirtan with eyes closed and do simran
> within. This is personal experience listening to
> kirtan makes you feel very anand-mai, anand you
> get from listening cannot be described you are in
> awe how guruji has put all the emotions in shabad
> and it shows us the path to do prembhagati, benti,
> regret our actions and on and on. Actually let me
> put it like this your soul guides you, sometimes
> it just wants to sit and drink the amrit bani with
> full concentration beleive me the waheguru simran
> in between the shabad or strolling away from one
> shabad to another without completing the first one
> disrupts this concentration and anand. Other times
> the soul wants to sing the shabad and then it gets
> different anand but listening to kirtan that anand
> cannot be described. It is just my viewpoint that
> listening to shabad with concentration is very
> blissful and does not require that your tongue
> should sing the shabad.
> GK


Guru Sahib mentions in Bhai Daya Singh Jis rehatnama " Never come to the Gurdwara Sahib empty handed. Listen to kirtan and make others listen to kirtan"

People interpret "Never come to the Gurdwara Sahib empty handed" as always come with an offering even if its is a penny or dollar, but I dont think this is the meaning. The first pangti is in relation to the second one, and GUru Sahib saying dont come empty handed. A person should always come to GUru Sahibs charan with the mentality of serving the Guru/sadh sangat. The greatest seva of sangat is to Jaap Naam silently or to Sing kirtan vocally with sangat. Either way one must be done.

Guru Sahib says
ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੈਸੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥
ਜਿਥੈ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥

recognize sangat as the place where naam is being recited.

So when we come to Gurdwara Sahib the best seva to Sadh Sangat is to either do naam jaap or sing kirtan vocally.If your kirtan skills are anything like mine then you will chose the first option ( haha). Either way we should chose one or both and not indulge in worldly manmat thinking.