Mention of Bibiyaan in Ardaas omitted?

I appreciate your feelings Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji. You really value the discipline and give a big thrust on it.

One thing I wonder, why many of your messages are followed by a blank mail.

from the panthic rehet maryada:

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3 (a)The text (This is a model of the Ardas. It may be adapted to different occasions and for different purposes. However, the initial composition with "Pritham Bhagauti......" and the concluding phrases commencing "Nanak Nam" must not be altered.) of the Ardas : (LIT. Supplication or prayer. in reality, It is a litany comprehending very briefly the whole gamut of Sikh History and enumerating all that Sikhism holds sacred. Portions of it are invocations and prayer for the grant of strength and virtue. It concludes with : O Nanak, may the Nam (Holy) be ever in ascendance : in Thy will, may the good of all prevail !

as bhai kulbir singh stated before, the panth approved ardaas is a model, a framework, within we can make alterations as we see fit. only the beginning (which is from guru gobind singh sahib's bani) and the last paragraph must be kept intact. everything in the middle may be added to or subtracted from.

Like Kulbir Singh Ji stated, except first paragraph and last two lines changes can be made but not to the structure. Anyone can add additional passages and words. 1936 published maryada states:

ਇਹ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਦਾ ਨਮੂਨਾ ਹੈ । 'ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ' ਵਾਲੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਅਤੇ 'ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ' ਵਾਲੀਆਂ ਅੰਤਲੀਆਂ ਦੋ ਤੁਕਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਕੋਈ ਤਬਦੀਲੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ ।

It clearly means that adding a passage is not manmat. Current SGPC maryada has spelling variations in the first paragraph. Ardaas has evolved over time and changes have been made. When Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Shabeg Singh and Shabaz Singh became shaheed their sacrifices were included. After Gurdwara Reform Movement was over, sacrifices of Sikhs was included in Ardaas. Same goes for when Gurdwaras were left in Pakistan or when a new Takhat was made. Some add many extra words and lines in praises of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Here are examples of additions which are not part of 1936 published version:

1. ਉਬਲਦੀਆਂ ਦੇਗਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਬੈਠੇ,
2. ਜੰਡਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਸਾੜੇ ਗਏ
3. ਪੁੱਠੀਆਂ ਖੱਲਾਂ ਲੁਹਾਈਆਂ
4. ਬੱਚੇ ਨੇਜਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਟੰਗੇ ਗਏ
5. ਤਿੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਅਤੇ ਵਰਤਮਾਨ ਸਮੂਹ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਿੰਘਣੀਆਂ ਭੁਝੰਗੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ

I myself say first and the last passages. I used to include shaheeds of Khalistan but then I started saying the last sentence to include them. Third paragraph is dedicated to all the Sikhs who sacrificed for the Panth and there is nothing wrong with mentioning specific events. I myself do not mention the passage of Sikh women because the way I say it covers everything but I do not think it is wrong to mention them. However, I feel strongly against removing any passages. Some Sikhs including granthis have started to remove passages like ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ… or say something that is not in line with Gurmat such as:

ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ and ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ (I think this is utter nonsense).

If one feels against adding some passages then they don’t have to say them but it won’t be manmat in either way. Guru Rakha

Veer Bijla Singh jee, kindly explain how is reciting "ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ" and "ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ" and "ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ" utter nonsense?

Thanks

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Veer Bijla Singh jee, kindly explain how is reciting "ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ" and "ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ" and "ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ" utter nonsense?

I don't think Bhai Bijla Singh meant that reciting "ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ" is utter nonsense rather not reciting it is.

Kulbir Singh

Bijla Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. Current SGPC maryada has spelling
> variations in the first paragraph. Ardaas has
> evolved over time and changes have been made.


Veer Ji you are right there are many changes/mistakes (?) in modern day Gutkey Sahibs in the first paragraph of Ardas. For example, in the first sentence of Ardas, modern day Gutkey Sahibs printed it as

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਈਂ ਧਿਆਇ ॥

but in Puratan Birs the word Bhagaautee is spelled with an Oora. Also Simar does not have a Sihari. Adding a sihari to simar changes the meaning of the whole pangti and undermines the link between Sri Akal Purakh and Guru Sahib and thus when this paath is done collectively different meanings lead the sangats surat to stray. Thus; it is important for Gurbani Scholars to come together, fix changes, and come up with a monolithic maryada for Sangat to recite panthic ardas collectively for maximum benefit and pleasing of Guru Sahib.

Just to be clear Im not talking about a Maryada for personal prayer im talking about a maryada for the panthic prayer. For Conservative religious people there are no limitations for praying. Amongst the conservative Jews they pray at least 100 times a day. When Angel Gabriel counseled Muhammad he told the Prophet that God demands the Muslims to recite 50 times a day, and Muhmmad was able to reduce the prayer times to a minimum of 5 times a day. Sikhi is the most rare path of praying, because everytime we recite Gurmantar we are doing ardas of thanks. Everytime we recite Gurbani this is also Ardas.

There is no limit for a Gursikh when praying. For example, as part of Ardas some Gursikhs like to recite Chandi Di Vaar after Panj Bania/Amrit Vela Naam Abhyiaas. Some Gursikhs like to recite the ardas " Dada Data Eko Heh Sabk Ko Deyvanhaar..." before eating. Some Gursikhs like to recite a specific pauri before and after work. Some Gursikhs like to recite a specific pauri before and after doing a certian paath. This all falls in the category of Ardas. But in regards to communal prayer Sikhi is distinct from other paths. This panthic prayer is not a ritual; Guru Sahib has blessed us with a collective prayer to make us remember our rich history, Gurmat principles, Gurmat goals etc. This communal ( panthic) or collective Ardas differs from personal Ardas because it us for the upliftment of not only the panth but the whole world, whereas personal prayers are usually for the upliftment of the individual atma. In reality, a Gursikh has no individual identity his identity is the panth so for this reason its best to stay committed to a monolothic pantic prayer. If one feels more associated or allegiant to a certain Jatha and likes to recite Ardas according to the customs of the jatha then that is fine, but if one associates themselves as part of the panth first then they will make efforts to recite Ardas which has been approved by the panth.

veerjee, the ardaas which has been approved by the panth includes room for variation based on local customs and preferences. it's clearly written in the rehet maryada, which is also approved by the panth.

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If one feels more associated or allegiant to a certain Jatha and likes to recite Ardas according to the customs of the jatha then that is fine, but if one associates themselves as part of the panth first then they will make efforts to recite Ardas which has been approved by the panth.

Bhai Sukhdeep Singh jee, Panth has decided the following about the Ardaas, as quoted by Bhain jee 1Kaur:

3 (a)The text (This is a model of the Ardas. It may be adapted to different occasions and for different purposes. However, the initial composition with "Pritham Bhagauti......" and the concluding phrases commencing "Nanak Nam" must not be altered.) of the Ardas : (LIT. Supplication or prayer. in reality, It is a litany comprehending very briefly the whole gamut of Sikh History and enumerating all that Sikhism holds sacred. Portions of it are invocations and prayer for the grant of strength and virtue. It concludes with : O Nanak, may the Nam (Holy) be ever in ascendance : in Thy will, may the good of all prevail !

It is clear that Panth has decided that other than mandatory phrases, rest of the Ardaas can be altered. This means immaterial altering is not against Gurmat. Then why are you giving the Fatwa that ones who make small alterations in the general body of Ardaas (as per permission from Panth) are associating first with the Jatha and not with Panth?

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

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Veer Bijla Singh jee, kindly explain how is reciting "ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ" and "ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ" and "ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ" utter nonsense?

Originally I wrote ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ and ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ (I think this is utter nonsense).

What I meant was that saying ਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਸਚਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰਨੀ is utter nonsense because Bani is from Sachkhand to begin with and making such a request is nonsense and undermining Gurbani. This is why I wrote this in parenthesis to ensure that it only applied to this specific passage. ਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ is not correct because word “Patt” must also be included. Excluding "ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਨਕਾਣਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ" is wrong because we are requesting their control handed over to Khalsa not to modern day type committees. I hope this is clear now. Guru Rakha

Hnaji Singho you are right, but it should be ok to do benti for forgiveness regarding incorrect uchaaran of Bani during paath, right?

Yes that should be done and there are many ways to ask for forgiveness.