dasvandh

waheguru jee ka khalsa waheguru jee kee fateh

Guru Pyareyo,

Yesterday, kindly provide your view whether our dasvandh (1/10th of our honest earning) should be calculated on:

(1) On Total income or

(2) On Total Saving i.e. Total Income - Total expenditure or

In case of Business Income

(3) On Profit i.e. Total Income - Total Expenditure


waheguru jee ka khalsa waheguru jee kee fateh

bsingh jee, please read these 3 threads where we have discussed Dasvand, it's calculation and other aspects in detail:

[gurmatbibek.com]
[gurmatbibek.com]
[gurmatbibek.com]

I hope those answer your queries

10% of your earnings. why is this hard to understand? 10% of whatever you totally earned. LOL Just give 10% of whatever you earned not 10% of your profit. it isn't even much at all so don't be miserly...lol

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10% of your earnings. why is this hard to understand? 10% of whatever you totally earned. LOL Just give 10% of whatever you earned not 10% of your profit. it isn't even much at all so don't be miserly...lol

Leafy jeeo,

It should be 10% of bring-home income, not revenue. In some businesses, where the profit margin is thin, the revenue can be much higher than the actual profit. The fair thing is to pay Dasvandh on net earnings (i.e. bring-home money).

There are some businesses, in which the revenue is say $100 and the expenses related to the sale are $95. In other words, you bought an item for $90, your overhead expenses are $5 and your sale price is $100. In such cases, if the Dasvandh is paid on the gross revenue, then it would amount to $10, which is double the actual money ($5) that this business is profiting. The business will go bankrupt in no time. Such business cannot be expected to pay Dasvandh on Revenue. The Dasvandh should be paid on the profit which is $5 in this case, and the Dasvandh would be 50 cents.

This is as per the Vichaar that Gursikhs in Toronto did, many years ago.

Please remember that the above is the minimum. There is no restriction on what you can give.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

and this is why i would make a bad business person then hehe...

In case of businesses, the owners inflate the expenditure figures and come up with a REDUCED PROFIT figure. So, they will have option with them to use Real Profit or Pseudo Profit to calculate its one tenth.

One thing I would like to point out is that it is also vital to consider where to give 'dasvandh' to. If it ends up in the wrong hands, then it can not be considered giving daswandh. Hence, daswandh should only end up in the hands of Panth Khalsa and should only go towards a cause for Khalsa Panth. This was the whole motive for the 'daswandh concept' in Gursikhi.

Well said, Jaspreet Singh jeeo.

Dasvandh is that which helps in forwarding the mission of Gurmat. Dasvandh given for non-Gurmat missions i.e. such missions that don't forward the cause of Gurmat Naam can be classified as Daan but not Dasvandh.

Dasvandh must be spent on Gurmat cause alone and only Khalsa can do Gurmat cause. Hence, Dasvandh can be given only for Chardi Kala of Khalsa Panth which in other words is cause of Gurmat.

Kulbir Singh

back of the amrit keertan pothi, in the rehat section, it says.....gareeb da muh guru di golak... so ive been giving dasvandh as money donations for food for the poor cos i thought of it as it's going into Guru Ji's golak...i hope this is accepted as dasvandh too...or is it not?

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back of the amrit keertan pothi, in the rehat section, it says.....gareeb da muh guru di golak... so ive been giving dasvandh as money donations for food for the poor cos i thought of it as it's going into Guru Ji's golak...i hope this is accepted as dasvandh too...or is it not?

"ghareeb da Mooh Guru di Golak" - this Hukam is fulfilled when Gurdwara Sahibaan where Gursikhs give Daswandh, run Guru ke Langar.

Guru ka Langar where ever it is run, is open to all Ghareeb or Ameer.

Guru Sahib knows Best.

Kulbir Singh

I think if we individually carefully analyze, we would know the proper use of Daswand. As Guru Nanak Sahib showed in 20 Rs langar, Daswand seems to be the Property of the NEEDY (Or in another way - form of Guru's Kipra to the one who needs it). Above all It also is fulfillment of Gursikh's commitment to his Guru.

To me Daswand should go to someone who is using it to

1) Spread Sikhism and needs Funds (GuruDwara Sahibs included)
2) Poors ==> Who have no means of earning ROZI ROTI or nothing to shelter etc. If we could spend to get them atleast some means of sources by which they could start their life, nothing like it.



We should however be very careful of donating blindly to Gurudwaras these days where its not being appropriately used.To me best use of Donations at Gurudwara Sahib would be either SIKH SANGAT unitedly doing so OR Management with approval/advise of Sangat use the donated funds (Guru DHAMs like Takhts or others excluded as there is a different cause of arrangements at these places).

I dont find much need to serve any poors in these countries as everyone has equal opportunities.

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!

I agree with Bhai Jaspreet Singh & Kulbir Singh Jee.

Also Veer Jee Sukhdeep Singh made great efforts in these other threads where we discussed dasvand : [gurmatbibek.com] [gurmatbibek.com] [gurmatbibek.com] to prove that only money that is properly and prudently donated to Gurmat purposes and within Guru Ghar can be classified as Dasvandh, but some people just would not listen and tried to question authentic rehatnamas and Veer Jee's posts, and even tried to use Gurbani pangtees to justify their own arguments.

But look what Satguru Jee tells us:

ਜੋ ਬਾਬੇ ਕੇ ਦਾਮ ਨ ਦੈਹੈਂ || ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਬਾਬਰ ਕੇ ਲੈਹੈਂ ||
jo baabae kae dhaam n dhaihai | thin thae gehi baabar kae laihai |
Those who withhold moneys owing to the Guru, for the spread of Dharma (e.g. tithes, sums promised and donations).
The successors of Babar shall seize them and take away those sums forcibly from them.

ਦੈ ਦੈ ਤਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਡੀ ਸਜਾਇ || ਪੁਨਿ ਲੈਹੈਂ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਲੂਟ ਬਨਾਇ || ੧੦||
dhai dhai thin ka baddee sajaae | pun laihai grih loott banaae | 10|
They shall inflict severe. punishments on them.
Later on their hearths and homes will be pillaged desperately.(10) (Sri Bachittar Natak, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Panna 161)

To give money or other donations to other poor people who are not Gursikhs, or charities that are not run by Gursikhs and do not benefit other Gursikhs and Gurmat cause directly is not wrong. In fact I respect and applaud those people who do give money to such noble causes, but we must be clear that this cannot be classified as the 1/10th Dasvandh, that is reserved for as stated above. Even something as amazing as Bhagat Pooran Singh Jee's Pingalwara cannot qualify as Dasvandh as it's purpose is not to spread Gurmat Naam. This might be hard to accept.

I also agree with Bhai Gursewak Singh Jee above who says we should not blindly put dasvandh to any Gurdwara Sahib. Unfortunately, as we know, there some people of questionable character in some Gurdwara Sahib Committees so we must be careful on that side too, and make sure Dasvandh goes to Rehatvaan Gursikhs.

If we do wish to give money to other charities and causes then great, shabash! But it must be on top of the 1/10th Dasvandh and cannot be included in it. Anyway, I don't wish to go down the same arguments made in the other 3 threads.

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I think if we individually carefully analyze, we would know the proper use of Daswand. As Guru Nanak Sahib showed in 20 Rs langar, Daswand seems to be the Property of the NEEDY (Or in another way - form of Guru's Kipra to the one who needs it). Above all It also is fulfillment of Gursikh's commitment to his Guru.

Gursewak jeeo, please note that the Rs.20 that Guru Sahib spent on feeding the poor was not Daswandh. The lesson we learn from this Saakhi is that we should help out the needy, whenever we can but this help has to be from the funds over and above Dasvandh. If we give Dasvandh to a cause that is not the cause of furthering Gurmat, then such Punn can be considered Daan but not Dasvandh.

If we read the history of Dasvandh, we realize that this practice was started by Guru Sahib to strengthen the Gurmat base. All Dasvandh funds were received by Guru Sahib and then these funds collectively were used to start many new cities e.g. Khadoor Sahib, Govindval Sahib, Siri Amritsar Sahib, Siri Tarn Taran Sahib, Siri Hargobindpur Sahib, Siri Kiratpur Sahib, Siri Anandpur Sahib etc. Furthermore, these funds were used to run Guru ke Langar, constructing Gurdwara Sahibaan, Sarovars, buying weapons, raising armies etc. All these aforementioned works and tasks were done for one reason only - furthering the cause of chanting Gurmat Naam. There was no shortage of poor and needy people back then but Dasvandh by Gursikhs was given to Guru Sahib and then Guru Sahib as per His will gave it to anyone poor, needy, Hindu or Musalmaan as He pleased.

As for Gharibs, please read Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee's book Gurmat Bibek on as to who the real Gharibs are. Real Gharibs, whom the Daan should be given are Gurmukhs who have Nau-Nidh Naam Ghareebi. The Hukams like "Daan diye inhee to Bhaavat" too proves that Gurmat Dasvandh should be given to Khalsa Panth only.

Having said that, the funds over and above Dasvandh can be used for helping out the needy.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh

Thanks for teh clarification veerji. That makes perfect sense.

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!

I never quite ever understood who 'The successors of Babar' are. Can anyone please expand on this further?

Thank you!

Hanjee, Leafy jee, what comes to my mind regarding the successors of Baabar are the ones who run/rule the country i.e. the Monarchy or which is most applicable these days the Government. Seeing as Monarchy are not really involved in day-to-day running of the State. So one who does not take out proper Dasvandh to Gurmat Naam cause will always get afflicted by fines, extra taxes, parking tickets etc.

I think it would not be off-topic to share this section from Se Kinehiya (Biography of Baba Harnaam Singh Jee Rampur Khere Vale by Bhai Seva Singh Jee) p. 435:

ONE MUST DONATE A TENTH OF OUR INCOME

The great Guru has ordered every gursikh to donate at least one tenth of his or her income to religious and philanthropic causes. Guru Ji blesses the Sikh, who puts aside their honestly earned and genuine income for charitable purposes. His earnings become fruitful in this world, and in the next world, he or she does not fall short of money. The tradition of dasvandh (which means one tenth) is a concept that is described by Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Bachittar Natak. Guru Ji emphatically states that whosoever does not donate a tenth of their income will lose out to the forces of corrupt power in this world and mammon will extract this income in a less favourable way. Bhai Gurdas Ji too has mentioned the tradition of dasvandh in his Vaar’s, as has Bhai Nand laal Ji in his writings called Tankhah namah. As we know, Bhai Gurdas Ji was the esteemed Sikh of Guru Arjun Dev Ji, who helped to compile the Adi Granth under the direct supervision of Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Bhai Nand laal Ji was an esteemed Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Dasvandh is also mentioned in the later writings of kavi Santokh Singh’s Suraj Parkash and the Rehatnamas of Bhai Desa Singh. The great Guru instituted the tradition of dasvandh so that the earnings of a Sikh could be used to help the needy and to proliferate the teachings of the Lord. In this way, the earnings of a Sikh are rendered profitable in this world and the next. By giving dasvandh, we obtain spiritual profit as well as the Guru’s pleasure. The tradition of donation has been around for time immemorial. However, when donating for a good cause the donor can develop a sense of pride and wrongly thinks “I have donated money to a good cause.” This pride leads to vanity and a haughty attitude, which tarnishes the mind. The word of God i.e. naam does not take root in such a mind. Therefore, money donated with a sense of pride is ultimately useless. The ninth Guru tells us that… Who-so-ever, while going on pilgrimage, Fasting and giving alms, takes pride in his mind, Nanak those deeds of his go in vain

Like an elephant sprinkles dust on itself after bathing tirath barat ar daan kar man mai Dharai gumaan. naanak nihfal jaat tih ji-o kunchar isnaan. ||46|| th (Salok 9 Guru, page 1428)

So, in order to save Sikhs from the demerit of ego and vanity, Guru Ji has bound Sikhs in the duty of dasvandh. A gursikh must hand over one part out of ten of his or her income to the Guru with the thought in mind that it is the Guru’s possession. The gursikh must be mindful that dasvandh is the Guru’s portion and one is just the custodian of this income. This money should be spent for religious or philanthropic causes. By giving dasvandh with this attitude of servitude, we follow the words of Bhagat Kabir Ji…. What do I lose in handing over what was yours already? tayraa tujh ka-o sa-upatay ki-aa laagai mayraa. (Salok Bhagat Kabir , page 1375) When giving dasvandh, a gursikhs mind is filled with humility and tenderness as he is freed from the Guru’s possession because… Why should man keep another’s possession in trust? Returning it, he surely attains peace
paraa-ee amaan ki-o rakhee-ai ditee hee sukh ho-ay. rd (Salok 3 Guru, page 1249)

Thus, we can relinquish our pride and vanity in returning the Guru’s dasvandh and in the process earn spiritual profits. Although everything that we receive in life is given to us by the Almighty himself, it is beneficial to regard all our income to be but a boon from the Lord. We are just giving back one tenth of the income that the Lord gave us in the first place. In this manner, we learn to relinquish greed as well as attachment to material wealth. Guru Arjun Dev Ji warn us in Sukhmani Sahib,

“O mortal, God gives you ten things, you should return one at least as a token of thanks”. What if the Almighty takes back all he has given you, what will you be able to do then?

One must contemplate the words of Guru Arjun sahib: The mortal obtains ten things and puts them behind them. For the sake of one thing, He forfeits his confidence. If the Lord gives not even one thing

And takes away the ten, Then say, what can this fool do?

das bastoo lay paachhai paavai. ayk basat kaaran bikhot gavaavai. ayk bhee na day-ay das bhee hir lay-ay. ta-o moorhaa kaho kahaa karay-i. th (Gauri Sukhmani 5 Guru, page 268)

So, in order to thank God and to obtain his pleasure, one must surrender at least one tenth of all the Guru’s boons back to him. In thanking him for all his blessings and donating dasvandh, you become free from the burden of the Guru’s possession. A gursikh who donates dasvandh, neither suffers loss nor does he have to pay worldly fines. A gursikh thus profits materially and spiritually in this life and the next.