Jesus and Gurmat Perspective

Khalsa Jee,

Daas has been asked to share thoughts about Jesus from a Sikh Perspective. Could Sangat kindly share their thoughts.

Thanks

Manvir Singh

It depends what scope you are looking at it from.

We also have to remeber that Jesus himself maybe questionable to being originated from a pagan faith that somehow got absorbed in to the Jesus Christ we know of now, and also not forgetting that Jesus did set on creating a new faith or rejected the Jewish faith whereas Guru Sahib did reject the hindu faith. Chirstanity was started much after by the followers of Christ.

Please eloborate a little further maybe the learnt gursikhs on the forum could share thoughts..

There is no mention of Ibne-Mariam (son of Mary) Isa Masif (Jesus Christ) in Gurbani nor is there any mention of Mohammad, the founder of Islam. At one point, casually and collectively the Semitic prophets have been mentioned by Bhagat Naamdev jee. The only Semitic prophet mentioned in Gurbani is Adam. The Indian religious leaders like Buddha, Sidhas, Rama, Krishna etc. have been mentioned but not worshipped or even admired.

Ibne-Mariam (Jesus) in my opinion was the best prophet out of 125,000 prophets of Semitic religions. Other famous prophets like Ibrahim (Abraham), Moosa (Moses), Noah, Mohammad etc. did some questionable deeds but Ibne-Mariam was quite clean. His life was pretty much free of Kamic and Krodh related mistakes. He was not known to be entangled by Moh since he had no family and had no greed as is evident from the fact that he did not go after money all his life. He led a simple life.

From Gurmat perspective, a person who does not have Satnaam or does not chant Satnaam does not reach the perfect spiritual destination and as such as per Gurbani, Ibne-Mariam would be a resident of either Dharam Khand (where heavens are) or at the most at the level of Gyan Khand where many religious founders like Buddha, Siddhas etc. are said to be residing.

Talking about Isa Masih, a famous couplet of Ghalib has come to mind:

Ibne-Mariam hooya kare koee.
Mere Dukh kee Dava kare koee.
इब्ने मरीअम हुआ करे कोइ.
मेरे दुःख की दवा करे कोइ.

I read this Ghazal of Ghalib about 20 years ago and could not understand the above couplet. I asked Yusaf Sahib (a Bazurg who was adept in Farsi) as to what it meant. He explained that as per tradition, son of Mariam i.e. Jesus, used to heal people and Ghalib is wishing that he too had met a person like Ibne-Mariam who could cure his sorrows.

In Gurmat, Guru Sahib alone is all-in-all for a Gursikh. The fact that the Semitic prophets did not even find mention in Gurbani sort of tells about their importance in the next world. Gurmat appreciate good deeds of people and condemns sinful activities. These prophets seem to be people of the Trai-Gunni Sansaar and as such know only about Paap and Punn (not Tatt-Vastoo) as per the 27th Pauri of Siri Anand Sahib.

Guru Sahib knows the best.

Kulbir Singh

I am not sure if you are looking for something related to Jesus only or his preaching as well. Gurbani does not mention Jesus and the word “Isa” in Dasam Granth refers to Ishwar. Popular belief of Christians that Jesus was born of Virgin Mary is not supported by Gurmat. Gurbani is clear on that.

ਮਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਿਦੁ ਧਾਰਾ ॥ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਪਾਰਾ ॥
ਜੋਤਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਜੇਤੀ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭ ਠਾਈ ਹੇ ॥4॥
ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਜੰਮਣ ਮਰਣਾ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਸਮਝ ਪੜੀ ਕਿਆ ਡਰਣਾ ॥
ਤੂ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਹਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਦੁ ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਜਾਈ ਹੇ ॥5॥

Granted that God is the father of us all but neither is he our physical father nor does he have a wife. Followers usually make up mythological stories to show greatness of their prophets. Raam, Krishna, Jesus etc are all shown to be born without physical union to highlight their physical purity. Gurmat viewpoint is that one who is in the cycle of death and birth cannot give salvation which is why Sikhs only worship Akal and have no middleman. Since Jesus took birth and died (physically) it goes to show that he cannot give salvation. Keep in mind that Sikhs never believed in physical body as the Guru even when Guru Jot was in a physical body.

Jesus only preached for 3 years (I may be wrong) and he never wrote down a single word of his preaching. He also did not organize the new community. I have read somewhere that he could not bear the pain of his punishment and said, “O God, please take this cup of sorrow from me.” Gurmat teaches to carry out the Will of God and a true Sikh treats all suffering and happiness equally. Guru Rakha

Bhai Sahib, there is a mention of Muhammed in Bachitar Natak
ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਤਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਅਰਬ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੨੬॥
Then I created Muhammed, who was made the master of Arabia.26.

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਏਕ ਪੰਥ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਲਿੰਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੀਨੇ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਾ ॥
He started a religion and circumcised all the kings.

ਸਭ ਤੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ ॥੨੭॥
He caused all to utter his name and did not give True Name of the Lord with firmness to anyone.27.

ਸਭ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥
Everyone placed his own interest first and foremost and did not comprehend the Supreme Brahman.

ਤਪ ਸਾਧਤ ਹਰਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਬੁਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੨੮॥
When I was busy in the austere devotion, the Lord called me and sent me to this world with the following words.28.

As for Jesus, he is mentioned in Bhai Gurdas Ji's Varan a few times, one line I found was the following
goeil vaasaa chaar dhin naao dhharaaein eesae moosae||
May be some one has named himself after Christ or Moses, but in this world all are to stay for a few days.

Reading into Jesus' life there are a lot of good life lessons to learn, he was very humble and was a revolutionary of his time. However, like Bhai Sahib has mentioned above, highest stage he could have reached is Dharam Khand, or Gyan Khand. Listening to many peoples testinomny of meeting Christ, from the near death experiences I have read, it seems like they always give a heavenly description. Christians are also very adament that Heaven is the highest stage one can reach when they die, so we can guess that Jesus resides in Dharam Khand. Or, Dass always wondered if there were any high avastha Gurmukhs who could attest to being Jesus in their past life, since he lived such a pious life he could have been reborn as a Sikh? ahha that would be really interesting

An interest sakhi you could tell was one relating to Baba Harnam Singhs book. In one of the chapters Baba Ji relates his story of getting Darshan, of Jesus Mohamed and another Hindu God of some sort that I forget. They told Baba Ji that there is no path greater then the one laid out by Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji and they wished that all their followers could follow Guru Jis path instead of their own. You can find this chapter of his book online somewhere.

Wow all this talk about worldy prophets had made me appreciate, so many people follow the paths of these worldy prophets thinking that they will bring mukhti, when Gursikhs no that there is only one path to salvation, which is through Guru Sahib. Just to know about the only true Satguru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji how lucky we must be! To have taken Amrit and gotten Naam from Guru Sahib, this must be the equivlent to winning a million lotteries over and over! We truly are lucky!
VAHEGUROOOOO time to get darshan!

Quote

Bhai Sahib, there is a mention of Muhammed in Bachitar Natak

You are correct. What I meant was that the Semitic prophets except for Adam have not found mention in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. I did not think of Dasam Granth at that time. But you are correct.

Kulbir Singh

Vaheguru Jee.

Channel 4 (one of the main TV channels in UK) are doing 2 or 4 minute documentaries leading up to Christmas about how different religions perceive Jesus or their reflections on Jesus. For this reason Daas sought the advice of the Sangat.

Thanks for the vichaar so far.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jesus was a good person who did have a Divine presence if the Bible is used as reference. He made it a point to point out religious hypocrisy amongst the regional aristocrats and businessmen (Pharasees and Seducees) in public encouraged that people uphold good conduct and righteousness. He promoted childlike innocence and meekness (baal-budh and nimarta) as a good approach to the world and died for his beliefs.

A Sikh reading over the life of Jesus through the four gospels should at least appreciate that there was a man sent by God to preach a message of awakening. So from the Sikh perspective, his positives involve re-joining people to God who were stuck with hypocritical preachers, promoting a good social and ethical behavior amongst the populace, and standing up for what he believed in.

vaheguroo jee

daas has always wondered this

even though akaal purakh has the powers to do this karamaat

we know that gursikhee is a very logical religion

what vichar do the gursikhs on this forum have on the Virgin Birth Of Jesus ?

Catholics believe that Jesus was concieved by God himself.

What is the story behind this if there is a story at all ??

Bentee aa Jee

the problem with using the bible as a reference point for jesus (or for anything, really), is that the bible has been altered and corrupted by the church leaders since christianity began. anything that is offensive to a pope or king gets removed or changed. the books about jesus were written hundreds of years after he died, so their accuracy must be suspect anyway, but especially when we know that many of the books about jesus were thrown out completely (for example, the gnostic gospels which are not part of the modern bible but show jesus teachings to be more in line with dharmic faiths, seeking god within the self rather than outside, etc).

one of the beautiful things about sikhi is that sri guru granth sahib jee is the only pure scripture, written by guru sahib himself. every other faith has changed their holy texts to fit political needs, and the writers of most are unknown so cannot be considered reliable.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

One thing to keep in mind is that Bhai Manvir Singh is asking for things to say in an interview about Christianity from non Christians. I don't know if questioning the authenticity of the Bible or proclaiming superiority of the Sikh faith is going to be prime time material or relevant towards that.

sorry, i thought you were using the bible for reference for jesus' divinity (as stated in your post). i apologize if my reply was not topical.

Prof Puran Singh, a divine sikh poet and writer, often refers to Jesus in his writings. e.g.In "Surta-Soul Consciousness"
he writes like that--------------

"Perhaps you have noticed that wonderful record of the rise and fall of Christ's Surta in the Bible.-----------------
Mark the state of Christ's Surta, How it falls and rises! Christ in that depression, says: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one". And his Surta rises to its normal height and glory when he says, " Suffer ye thus far" And he touched his ear and healed him.-----------------------------------
And how glorious is the saying of this God, the son speaking as the father:
"For the poor always ye have with you but me ye have not always."
--------------------------
To me this is not the praise of Christ, but it is a brilliant description of the Surta that Christ had."