Sarbloh Replaced Naam

VaaheguroojeekaakhalsaaVaaheguroojeekeefatehh..!!

Brahmgyaanee kee Gatt Brahmgyaanee Jaaney....
Im not a brahmgyaanee... so how can i know who is a brahmgyaanee and who isnt...???

and its very obvious from the fact that sarbloh is an inseperable part of gursikhee which even bhai saab bhai randheer singh jee realised at a later stage in his life (after he had reached that eternal stage), its quite clear that sarbloh is mandatory whether u realise it now or later on...

im not saying gursikhs who did not have sarbloh were brahmgyanis or not coz i have to be a brahmgyani to judge who is and who isnt a brahmgyaani...!! =) but there are people who just pass the examination getting 50% marks and there are others who have the passion to get 100% marks... its clear that they both are getting passed... but only one is the topper... which means irrespective of keeping sarbloh or not they both go to sachkhand...!! =)

Bhul Chuk dee khima... Daas is just a gursikh wannabe...

VaaheguroojeekaakhalsaaVaaheguroojeekeefatehh..!!

Taan Singh, Im afraid you are lying as I have sat with you and you have told me directly what you thought about Sarbloh! You have also mentioned to me Gurbani tuks and totally changed the meaning to them, I was lucky I saw through your cleverness and what you were trying to do.

If you can reach sachkhand without Sarbloh why are my brothers and sisters keeping that rehat? for the fun of it? This path is narrow and sharp as a sword only the virle can walk it, we can only hope to do the same.

Gupts - Im afraid I dont believe what you say about sachkhand and who is there. So your saying that youve seen sachkhand had a look whos there and come back to tell us all? A Gursikh doesnt care about taking birth again - Raaj na chahu, mukht na chahu man preet charan kamalarae!!! A Gursikh if asked will come back to do seva, just like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and Bhai Fauja Singh. Again I ask you, how do you know who a brahmgyani is? Shouldnt a gursikh respect everyone equally? or should we show more respect to people who we 'think' is a brahmgyani? A lot of sikhs/non sikhs have had darshan of Guru sahib for whatever reason, but here we are talking about the the ultimate state.

Vaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsaa,
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fatehh

Veer "Taan Singh" and GuptS Ji,

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GuptS
No one here is putting Sarbloh bibek down.

You may not be spelling it out, but if you guys can categorically say (see my previous post) we can reach Sachkhand without Sarbloh Rehit, does this not diminish this rehit?

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Taan Singh
It’s up to Vaheguru to decide who is a devotee and who is not and who should be given mukti and who should not. True Pyar for Vaheguru is what we are trying to develop through Naam. Pyar can be shown in different ways.

and

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GuptS
I've only posted on this thread because I felt disrespect was shown to other Bharmgyanis

No-one here is deciding who isn't Jeevan-Mukat or disrespecting the likes of Baba Harnaam Singh Ji, Bhai Fauja Singh Ji, Bhai Rama Singh Ji (UK) amongst many others. As Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji and Bhai Jagtar Singh Ji said, we (lowly keeRe) cannot possibly comprehend the avasthas of these uchay uchay Gursikhs - they are too far ahead from us. We know they are high, but its not like there's a meter where we can read off how high they were (as Veer A.M. Ji said). Only Guru Sahib knows. We are all 'Ghugoos' who barely understand that 1 + 1 = 2 (i.e. following ALL rehits, japping Naam, reading Gurbani etc.. will lead us to Akal Purakh).

Maaf Karna

Aalas Moorakh, you're a funny guy. I hardly socialise. I have never in my life sat with anyone and talked about sarbloh. This is the first time I've said this. Please stop sharing your life experiences on a forum. You seriously have the wrong person. You can assume what you like now.

"I was lucky I saw through your cleverness and what you were trying to do." < this is part is really funny.


"If you can reach sachkhand without Sarbloh why are my brothers and sisters keeping that rehat? for the fun of it? This path is narrow and sharp as a sword only the virle can walk it, we can only hope to do the same." > I've already explained this in my last post but I'll make it clear for you: WHEN A GURSIKH BECOMES A JOT VIGAASI, WHICH IS A LEVEL OF BHRAMGYAN, HIS PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL REHITS WILL TAKE HIM TO A CERTAIN LEVEL BUT IN THE END THEY ARE ALL BHRAMGYANIS AND THEREFORE ALLOWED IN SAACHKHAND. THIS IS PLAIN COMMON SENSE, THAT ONE CAN GET MUKTI WITHOUT SARBLOH. SARBLOH IS STILL GOOD TO KEEP. VERY GOOD TO MY GURSIKH BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO KEEP IT.

Lastly, you twisted what GuptS has said, you actaully started a whole new topic as he has not said Gursikhs cannot come back or if they do not care. GuptS was just explaining his experience, but worldly people judge the Spiritually very quickly, as Doubts run their life. Sorry if this part hurt you, but no one has a right to judge anothers experience. "Shouldnt a gursikh respect everyone equally?" - the reason for this thread is a statement someone made regarding Bhramgyanis. GuptS respects everyone equally but will respect Truth more.

Daasandaas, thanks for your post.

I too use to think why is that Gurmukhs like Bhai Rama Singh Ji, Baba Harnam Singh Ji, Baba Isher SIngh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh JI etc did not follow Sarab Loh Bibek?

Lets think about the lifestyle and the rehat they adopted. All these Gurmukhs completely surrendered everything to Guru Sahib. They had no property, wealth etc under their name they regarded themselves as mere servants of the Khalsa panth.
For them giving and taking was strictly amongst the Khalsa panth, dealing with others was a complete waste. For their food they accepted whatever the Khalsa panth provided . Guru Sahib says a Gursikh gives and takes amongst Khalsa, and does not make any offering to anything else.

ਲੈਣਾ ਦੇਣਾ ਖਾਲਸੇ , ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਅਉਰ ਦੇਵ ਇਵ ਮਾਨੀਏ, ਜਿਉਂ ਬਾਰੂ ਕੀ ਮੂਠ
Bhai Prahalad Ji Rehatnama

So these Gurmukhs offered everything to the Khalsa who is the embodiment of Guru Sahib. They had nothing of their own, their shelter and food was solely dependent on the Khalsa ( Guru Sahib).

We have not done Guru Sahibs seva properly. As a panth we are the most divided; we have little sense of community nor do we cater to these Khalsa SInghs who have dedicated their whole life to the upliftment of the panth. As a distinct community we are suppose to eat, sit and have dealings with Gursikhs. In the old days a Gursikh would not even eat unless they served another Sikh first. Bhai Desa Singh Jis rehatnama mentions one should share their food with others before eating. Guru Sahib says to always keep a Sarab Loh drinking bata with you and never even touch any other metal for the purpose of eating and drinking.

ਏਕ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਕੀ ਗੜ੍ਹ੍ਵੀ ਰਖੈ
BHai Daya Singh JI

This rehat of keeping Sarab Loh utensils is for the purpose of Roti-Beti dee saanjh.
We have not kept this Hukum in our homes or our langar so then how are these Gurmukh Parchariks suppose to eat out of Sarab Loh. Do we expect Parcharks like Baba Attar SIngh Ji to walk all the way to Hazoor Sahib with a big cooking Sarab Loh bata? THis is one possibility that certain Gurmukhs did not practice Sarab Loh bibek. They were sole dependents on the panth. These Gurmukhs did not have a normal job with wages, they did not give dasvand so does this mean that the rest of us are exempt from giving Dasvand?

Another possible reason why certain Gurmukhs did not follow Sarab Loh bibek is they did not know about it. Most rehats the Gurmukhs followed were the ones taught during Amrit Sanchar and the ones learned through oral tradition. The tradition of Sarab Loh Bibek just like the tradition of covering head with Keski has been oral traditions forgotten amongst many people of the panth.

I highly doubt mentioned Gurmukhs would neglect a hukum of Guru Sahib if they knew about it. I believe the statement

" One cannot get BrahmGian without following every rehat" has been taken out of context. I think we cant take this as literal because Bhai Randhir Singh Ji was blessed with Brahmgian while he was in jail, and he did not have his Panj Kakkars at this time. But he did not chose to part from Panj Kakkars, the panj kakkars was forced away from him. So, If a person knows about certain rehats chooses to neglect them our of mere laziness then for sure they cant get BrahmGian, but if some uninformed person doesnt follow certain rehats due to a misunderstanding or other factors I dont think GUru Sahib holds it against them.

Also , I think its unfair to believe that those that follow Sarab Loh Bibek need to be automatic saints who do Naam Abhyiaas 24/7 these expectations are expected for anyone to takes Amrit and keeps Panj kakkars.

Outwardly,

“You may not be spelling it out, but if you guys can categorically say (see my previous post) we can reach Sachkhand without Sarbloh Rehit, does this not diminish this rehit?”

No, this is not diminishing the rehat. If someone told me you can reach Bharmgyan without Naam Drih, I would not get offended or think they have diminished Naam Drih. If someone told me we can attain Bhramgyan without memorising bani, I would not get offended or think they have diminished that rehit.

That is fine Bhai Jagtar Singh said that but Guru Sahib's view is different. I've already explained it in my last post.


Sukhdeep Singh,

Bhai Rama Singh Ji, Baba Harnam Singh and Bhai Attar Singh Ji knew about the Sarbloh rehat but did not care to practice it.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji has mentioned a Singh in jail that got Amrit directly from Guru Nanak Dev ji without going to Panj. In Rangle Sajjan, Bhai Sarwan Singh Jee was illiterate and so could not memorise bani at all, even though there is a rehit to memorise bani, he reached Bhramgyan through seva and naam. He could have learnt to read Gurmukhi if it was so important to practice the rehit of memorising bani to reach bhramgyan but he did not. Guru Sahib does as he pleases. No one is here to say what can allow someone to reach bhramgyan or not. In the end it's just the Pyar. The Strongest Pyar is shown and developed through Naam, Gun Gayee and Sat Sangat. These are the three main things Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks about.

The fact is Sarblohees think that one cannot become bhramgyan without practicing Sarbloh no matter what the circumstances, which is a false assumption. To keep the Sarbloh rehat and Memorise Bani Rehat is very good and helps our naam a lot but to say we cannot reach Bhramgyan without these is Not True.

VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh

Why is there even a debate about this whole issue? Without Rehet we are like disabled people. Rehet (all of them) is like a cane a (spiritually)disabled or an injured person uses in order to walk properly on the spiritual path. The path is Naam and the destination of the path is Sachkhand. If we use our cane(rehet) to walk on the path(naam) we will reach our destination (Sachkhand). So the cane (Rehet), the path (Naam/Bani) and the destination(Sachkhand) are all interconnected. Usually people who can reach spiritual heights without fully following all the rehet probably have many janams of Kamai because of which they are not as spiritually disabled as us. Maybe many Mahpursh we know were Rishimunis or great Auliyaas in their previous lifetimes who simply took birth in order to take Amrit and enter the house of Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Taan Singh jeeo,

This Daas wrote what he thinks is Gurmat. Sorry if it offended you. Such was not the intention.

Daas really believes that a Sikh who deliberately does not keep Sarbloh Bibek, 5 Kakaars, Daswandh and other important Rehits has some Haume that prompts him to override Guru Sahib's Rehit. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee had reached such high level of Brahmgyaan but still held on to Sarbloh Rehit. I am surprised that Gurmukhs can still believe that this Rehit is optional. If keeping Sarbloh Bibek is of no use, then why did so many Gursikhs keep Sarbloh Bibek?

No one is saying that Naam can be replaced by Sarbloh Bibek or any other Rehit. The fact of the matter is that all Rehits are there to aid us in Chanting Guru Sahib's Naam.

And, Jyot-Vigaas Avastha does not equate Brahmgyaan Avastha. Every Brahmgyani is a Jyot-Vigaasi but every Jyot-Vigaasi is not a Brahmgyaani. Brahmgyaan Avastha is a very very rare happening as compared to Jyot-Vigaasi Avastha which too is rare but nearly not as rare as Brahmgyaani. In any case, this is not the issue here, nor this should be and can be discussed on forums.

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No one is here to say what can allow someone to reach bhramgyan or not. In the end it's just the Pyar. The Strongest Pyar is shown and developed through Naam, Gun Gayee and Sat Sangat. These are the three main things Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks about.

What kind of Pyaar allows a Gursikhs to override Guru Sahib's Rehit? A true lover cannot override any of Guru Sahib's Hukam. If all Gursikhs start thinking like this, then Rehit would be totally diminished. This is the true Nishaani of Sant-Dumm. Gurmukhs live in the fear of Guru Sahib and cannot disobey Guru Sahib's Hukam on purpose. If one was to accept your above given argument, then what would prevent one from not wearing Kakaars using the same argument that Pyaar is everything and Naam is everything? If one can give up Sarbloh Bibek, then one could give up Kakaar Rehit too and there have been Sants who were Dhillay in this Rehit. Are we to imitate such Sants who were dhillay in Rehit or Gurmukhs who kept all Rehit?

This topic is getting out of hand. First of all, I don't understand what you O Bhai Taan Singh jeeo will gain if Gursikhs don't keep Sarbloh. Definitely, your writings under this thread are diminishing Guru Sahib's Rehit - Sarbloh Bibek. This Daas requests you that Gurmat is to write something constructive and not against Rehit under all costs. You have Gyaan and it seems like you have Jeevan too. Mere Veer, you are required to stand with Sarblohi Bibeki Gurmukhs and not against them. What is even the purpose of this thread? What do we stand to gain from this thread?

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Alot of 'Sant/Babay' talk down on rehits they dont keep. The reason for this is, if they didnt dismiss the rehits they dont keep then their followers would doubt them and see it as a weakness in them and therefore they would have no more followers. The people would ask If hes such an amazing Gursikh that hes claiming to be why doesnt he abide by all guru sahibs bachans or at least make an effort? All boils down to pride. Why are we bothered what other people think or do, our aim should be to make us pleasing in our Gurus eyes. Everyone can meditate on god using different names and this will bring them closer to god and even give them spiritual experiences. But should a Gursikh be bothered if hes got a place in sachkhand, who is there and who isnt? Shouldnt a Sikh just be trying everyday to be his Gurus Sikh?

Bhai Taan Jee,

A Gursikhs aim is not to become brahmgyaani, but to live as a Gursikh all his jeevan, and beeing a Gursikh is simply doing what the Guru wants you to do. If in that time Guru Sahib gives you the state of Brahmgyaan, then that is his Bakshish. you shouldn't have this type of mindset about a rehat that Guru Sahib has given us, every rehat given by Guru Sahib is a bakshish and Gursikh should love keeping his rehat and not say that it's ok not to do this because i will still get to sachkhand. Don't say it's ok to keep sarbloh, it's not just ok it's a Hukam, there is no such thing as just ok in Gursikhi.

You talk about these Gursikhs who have attained high spirits without Sarbloh, so you use that as an excuse. How many of these Gursikhs do you think would have wasted their time on Messageboards causing nothing but useless arguments.
Just like Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee said, this is not going to get anyone anywhere, lets make posts that are Gurmat, how will you benefit from this type of post.

Without talking about personalities, I believe that no matter how great a Sikh becomes, he or she can never become greater than the hukam of Guru Sahib. If Guru Sahib had instructed in Gurbani or in any rehitnama, that after reaching a certain spiritual stage, a Sikh is exempt from keeping outer rehit, then we would understand. But I have never found a single pankiti or quote from Rehitnamas that sanctions giving up rehit after reaching a certain state.

In history we read two instances where accomplished Gursikhs who became bedeh and unknowingly became oblivious of Guru Sahib's rehit. The first example is that of Siri Baba Buddha jee. It is said that he became so engrossed in Naam Mastaani avastha that he did not perform the rehit of Gurmat Ishnaan at Amritvela. Siri Guru jee called him and instructed him to follow rehit so that gullible Sikhs don't get misled by his ways.

The second example is of Mata Bhaag Kaur who became so mastaani in Jyot-Vigaasi Naam-Raseeki avastha that she even stopped wearing clothes. Again, this happened unintentionally. In Sooraj Parkash it is written that Siri Guru Dasmesh jee gave her instructions to keep rehit and at least wear two garments on her body - Kachhera and Keski.

As to question as to why some Mahapurakhs became relaxed in rehit after reaching high states, what can we mortal beings say about them? And what is the need to say anything? We should take example of the way they did kamaayee of Shabad. That's it.

We need to do is follow Guru Sahib's hukam of following rehit. We are not Sikhs or Mahapurakhs or accomplished Sikhs. They are our elder brothers, not our Guru. We should follow Guru Sahib's hukam and keep rehit at all cost. Siri Guru jee has made it clear in rehitnamas that rehit is an absolute must.

Old Post
Daas,
Kulbir Singh

As per requests from the users of this forum, we are going to open this topic till end of Amritvela tomorrow (Eastern Standard Time) to allow users to bring proper closure to this topic. Our advice is to agree to disagree and not stir this controversey. The topic will be permanently closed thereupon.

No personal attacks will be allowed and deviation from topic will be edited out.

Admin.

“Daas really believes that a Sikh who deliberately does not keep Sarbloh Bibek, 5 Kakaars, Daswandh and other important Rehits has some Haume that prompts him to override Guru Sahib's Rehit.”

Even one who keeps all these rehits has Haume.

Naam comes first, this is the first rehit. If we forget naam what makes the other materialistic rehits so great? Naam and Bani will get us to Saachkhand, rehit will help on the way. But Naam and Bani will get us there. Practicing Sarbloh, if we have naam, is meant to do something to the ones who practice it but the opposite is happening. The Hukam is having Kamamee of Naam (Athay Pehar) along with these rehits, as the rehits then become Parvaan. No one has gone against any rehit, we should practice rehit and make them Parvaan through Naam. I only disagree with the statement that one cannot reach bhramgyan without Sarbloh.

By saying that an unreal temporary rehit, which will stay in this world of illusion when we leave, has to be kept or we cannot reach Bhramgyan, is putting stress on one particular rehit when instead we should be saying, keeping rehit and by forgetting naam in this life we cannot reach Bhramgyan would sound better and do better for others. A Gurmukh only praises naam because only naam is True and Permanent.


gurmuiK nwmu slwhIAY haumY invrI Bwih ]1] rhwau ]
guramukh naam salaaheeai houmai nivaree bhaahi ||1|| rehaao ||
The Gurmukh praises the Naam, and the fire of egotism is extinguished. ||1||Pause||


Sarbloh rehit along with all the other materialistic temporal rehits are below the Spiritual Permanent Rehits of Athay Pehar Naam Abhiyaas and Athay Pehar Gun Gayee Abhiyaas. To say Athay Pehar Naam Abhiyaas is a saintly level is ridiculous, it’s a normal level which anyone can achieve. It’s all to do with love for naam.

The below shows a good example:

“The first example is that of Siri Baba Buddha jee. It is said that he became so engrossed in Naam Mastaani avastha that he did not perform the rehit of Gurmat Ishnaan at Amritvela. Siri Guru jee called him and instructed him to follow rehit so that gullible Sikhs don't get misled by his ways.”

Guru Sahib instructed Baba Buddha Jee to keep the rehit due to Sikhs on Beginner Stages becoming lax in it when they need it to help their naam. But Baba Buddha Jee would have still been allowed in Saachkhand without it.

“there have been Sants who were Dhillay in this Rehit. Are we to imitate such Sants who were dhillay in Rehit or Gurmukhs who kept all Rehit?”

To say that a Sant who did not practice the Sarbloh rehit is dhil even though Guru Sahib allowed them in Saachkhand is like saying Guru Sahib is dhil in making this decision. Guru Sahib should have not allowed any of the Bhagats in Saachkhand then?

Like Bhagat Dhanna Jee Vaheguru Ji immediately came to him due to his innocence. Only Naam can cut our haume and ahankar down to bless us with the innocence of a child. How can Vaheguru Jee refuse a Gurmukh who has such innocence and pyar from entering Saachkhand?

Reason for the topic:
Sarblohee’s are ridiculously proud that recently they have started and made up their own rehit – to eat only from Sarblohee when Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji used to eat from Amritdhari who did not practice Sarbloh bibek. This is how much stress has been put on the Sarbloh rehit over Naam.

To put high praise on Sarbloh is not right because it will make one focus more on this Rehit or any other than on Naam, when only naam can purify us. We should focus on Rehit and Naam, as there are some Sarblohee who cannot even keep their Amritvela Pukka let alone Jap Naam Athay Pehar. I have heard Sarblohees and non-sarblohees speaking filthy words, showing anger and more, and so by putting emphasis on Sarbloh is not helping. If ustat was done on Naam people would focus more on Naam and Practice to Achieve Athay Pehar Naam Abhiyaas and Athay Pehar Gun Gayee Abhiyaas and this will bless them with sweet-speech, unconditional love, innocence of a child and to see Vaheguru Ji in all.


I am not going to be replying to anyone now. Daas shall stick to what Daas believes.

VaheguruJikaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh!

Bhai Taan Singh jeeo,

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Even one who keeps all these rehits has Haume.

But being a Sikh, our Farz (duty) is to obey Hukam. If Rehit is Hukam, how can it be rejected by a Gursikh? No one is saying that by keeping Rehit alone, one's Haume will get eliminated but to Japp Naam, Rehit is important. One who deliberately rejects Guru Sahib's Hukam (Naam or Rehit) has Haume for sure and till one has Haume, Naam cannot reside in that individual. This is backed up by many Gurbani Pankitis.

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Naam comes first, this is the first rehit. If we forget naam what makes the other materialistic rehits so great?

Who said that Naam comes second? Of course, Naam comes first and you are correct in saying that without Naam, Rehit does not have much value but by the same token without Rehit, a Sikh becomes a Patit and a Tankhaaiya. Think of this. If a Sikh is not an Naam Abhyaasi of 8 Pehars, he does not become a Tankhaiya or Patit. His Ardaas can still be performed but if a Sikh commits a Bajjar Kurehit he becomes a Patit and if he removes Kakaar or does other Rehit violations, he becomes a Tankhaiya. You can see that Rehit is not an immaterial thing. It is important too.

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The Hukam is having Kamamee of Naam (Athay Pehar) along with these rehits, as the rehits then become Parvaan. No one has gone against any rehit, we should practice rehit and make them Parvaan through Naam.

I am glad you made this statement. I agree with it.

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only disagree with the statement that one cannot reach bhramgyan without Sarbloh.

Sarbloh Bibek is a Rehit of Guru Sahib. Not keeping Rehit is disobeying Guru Sahib. Disobeying Hukam means such Sikh has Haume. Having Haume means, there is some deficiency in spirituality. This deficiency will prevent Pooran Avastha.

Think about it. One Sikhs keeps Sarbloh Bibek and all Rehit and the other one does not. Both do Sewa of Naam and Gurbani. There has to be some difference in their Avastha. One is obeying all Hukams and the other one is obeying 90% Hukams. How can they be treated the same in Dargah? This would make Vaheguru's justice flawed.

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By saying that an unreal temporary rehit, which will stay in this world of illusion when we leave, has to be kept or we cannot reach Bhramgyan, is putting stress on one particular rehit

How can you call Guru Sahib's Hukam unreal and temporary? Hukam of Guru Sahib is permanent and real.

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when instead we should be saying, keeping rehit and by forgetting naam in this life we cannot reach Bhramgyan would sound better and do better for others. A Gurmukh only praises naam because only naam is True and Permanent.

Why can't we say that we should keep both Naam-Gurbani and Rehit as both are Hukams of Guru Sahib?

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Guru Sahib instructed Baba Buddha Jee to keep the rehit due to Sikhs on Beginner Stages becoming lax in it when they need it to help their naam. But Baba Buddha Jee would have still been allowed in Saachkhand without it.

If Baba Buddha jee had disobeyed Guru Sahib's Hukam of keeping Rehit for the sake of beginners, would he still have achieved Sachkhand? No way. If he had refused, that would have meant that he had Haume and this would have taken away Brahmgyaan from him.

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To say that a Sant who did not practice the Sarbloh rehit is dhil even though Guru Sahib allowed them in Saachkhand is like saying Guru Sahib is dhil in making this decision. Guru Sahib should have not allowed any of the Bhagats in Saachkhand then?

How do we know which Sant was allowed in Sachkhand and which was not? Let's keep our focus on Gurbani and Hukams of Guru Sahib. We don't know about others. We just ought to believe that we must obey Hukams of Guru Sahib to get to Sachkhand. Why are we preaching others that its okay to not keep Rehit and still get into Sachkhand?

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Like Bhagat Dhanna Jee Vaheguru Ji immediately came to him due to his innocence. Only Naam can cut our haume and ahankar down to bless us with the innocence of a child. How can Vaheguru Jee refuse a Gurmukh who has such innocence and pyar from entering Saachkhand?

How can a Gurmukh who has child-like innocence, disobey a simple Hukam of Guru Sahib, like Sarbloh Bibek? If he is disobeying Guru Sahib's simple Hukam like Kakaars, Sarbloh Bibek etc. then how is he going to obey tough Hukam like Aath-Pehar Simran?

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To put high praise on Sarbloh is not right

Kindly, read Sarbloh article by Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and see how much he praises Sarbloh Bibek. I will try to post some extracts from there.

Kindly don't put down Rehit. This will not help anyone. If someone who wants to keep Rehit, stops from keeping Rehit because of your posts, you will have to incur Bad Karma for that. I don't see Guru Sahib's Khushi in this. We should say that Naam comes first but all Rehit is required to get to Sachkhand. Why preach against Rehit? Is it Bibek Budh to do so?

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

sigh....vahigurooo!

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Taan Singh
I never go on this forum or any other and after someone else told me what has been said on here about Sarbloh - that no one can reach Brahmgyaan without doing Sarbloh. I found this a joke.

1. Taan Singh ji, you stormed into the forum in with a very argumentative attitude. Hence, it was highly unlikely for this thread to turn out to be a productive Gurmat veechar for everyone . Dass assumes you "stormed" gurmatbibek for the reasons dass has quoted you above.
Reacting on a hearsay , is an indication a man lacking wisdom.


2.While Chatrik, does agree with the issues you have highlighted partially. As it is true, without Jap Tap/Prema Bhagti in ones jivan, sarbloh bibek is just a pakhand. You seem to be more focused on dismissing this rehit without even knowing its importance.
No where in this forum have gursikhs ever belittled Naam/Gurbani over Sarbloh or ever said Sarbloh can replace Naam. As opposed the the title of the topic you choose to stir problem here, which is "Sarbloh Replaced Naam" . As a matter of fact didn't you notice the forums banner?

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥

Sri GuruBani ji is Khalsa's REHIT .


You just got the idea wrong in the first place.

3.This Bibek rehit is there for Naam Abhiyasis and this rehitnama clearly indicates it :

ਜਾਕੀ ਰਹਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀ ਚੀਤ।
ਉਨਕਾ ਭੋਜਨ ਖਾਇਕੈ ਬਿਸਰਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ।
-rehitnama-

Amrit Sanchar and Degh, both require sarbloh for preparation. It;s a must.
Sarbloh has always been apart of Khalsa, neither you nor the mahapursh you believe in, can deny it in anyway.


4. Regarding your post which you have "equipped" with Gurbani very well to suite your purpose.

Then please do reflect on this bachan of Satguroo:

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਕਥੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥
Everyone talks about spiritual wisdom and spiritual knowledge.

ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਕਰੇ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
Talking, talking, they argue, and suffer.

ਕਥਿ ਕਹਣੈ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
No one can stop talking and discussing it.

ਬਿਨੁ ਰਸ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥
Without being imbued with the subtle essence, there is no liberation. ||2||

1 who is imbued won't waste time arguing.
Forgive dass for saying this, observing your argumentative approach on this thread........
One may be well equipped with theoretical gyan on Sikhi one has heard and read various sources. But truly, atamic gyan is only invoked within us, when we completely obey SatGuroo genuinely in our jeevans through 'Gurmat Naam Prema Bhagti'.


5. For all those who seek Vahiguroo in the house of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, only genuine, humble & meek servants will receive Gurparsad.

Neither YOU or WE can fool Guru Sahib in anyway. Guru Sahib says in a very straight forward manner to all of us :

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ ਕਸਉਟੀ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਝੂਠਾ ਟਿਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Kabeer, such is the touchstone of the Lord; the false cannot even touch it.
ਰਾਮ ਕਸਉਟੀ ਸੋ ਸਹੈ ਜੋ ਮਰਜੀਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
He alone passes this test of the Lord, who remains dead while yet alive. ||1||


You intention/purpose for starting the thread was not guided by Bibek Budhi in the first place. So, it's a no surprise this thread turned out to be a mess.

moorakhpan di khimma....

Chota veer

ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Guru Piyare Khalsa jio,

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ॥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Daas would like to say that we should always remember these quotes about importance of Sarabloh Rehat. One is from a non-Sikh, non-Indian decent writer and another one is from a great Gursikh of 20th century.

1. “When Guru Govind inaugurated the sacrament of steel (Sarbloh) he proved himself a wise and far-sighted leader. For of all material things which genius has inspired with spiritual significance steel (Sarbloh) is the truest and most uncompromising. Let humanitarians prate as they will, there never has been a race who have not been purged and refined by it. In some it is the only combater of grossness and the monster of self. To the khalsa it gave a cause and welded them into a nation; and in the dark days of Muhammadan rule in the middle of the eighteenth century, when the Sikh was slain at sight and no quarter was given, it drove them on those gallant crusades in which they rode to Amritsar in the dead of night, leapt into the sacred tank and out again, and galloped back through the enemies’ lines purified. Hundreds were slain, but not one abjured his faith or perjured his soul to preserve “his muddy vesture of decay”".

Edmond Candler, The Mantle of the East, 120-21



2. “At Siri Kesgarrh Sahib, at the time when the Khalsa Panth was created this was the actual model which has been passed on Seena Baseena within the Panth in convention over time. Sportive Father Siri Dasmesh Jee implanted the practice of Sarbloh to keep the warrior spirit alive inside the khalsa with each breath. With the form of Sarbloh the Khanda making Amrit Power “Nanak Naam Chardi Kala” forever awakens the Jot inside the Khalsa. Right at the time of birth through the Khanda the Gurrhtee of Amrit was given, right at the birth awakening time the Warrior Sarbloh Power was penetrated to each and every hair of the Khalsa, as accepting this was the permanent and forever hukam engraved on our chest for the Khalsa to always be Sarblohi, whoever keeps this hukam, whoever labors through the struggle of Sarbloh will forever live in Jeevan Mukat Chardee Kala. Warrior Spirit will be surging through his nerves and veins at every moment. He will in high joy play each moment within his fearlessness Naam colored soul".

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, Gurmat Bibek, 217

It is not in the favor of Gurmat Rehat-Rehni and to the Chardi kala of Guru Panth by undermining the Rehat of Sarabloh. Although at the moment daas do not have such kirpa of Guru Sahib to hold this Rehat strictly, however daas always seek that time when Guru Sahib will shower his mercy for this. May Guru Sahib give us all the bibek-budh and capacity to do His seva at fullest by all means of Naam-Bani and Rehat-Rehni.

With Regards,
Daas

Vahegurooojeekaakhalsavaheguroojeekeefathe!!

After reading this I wanted to share something a elderly
Singh once said too me they said " naam is like a crop
the more we jap naam the more the crop will grow and
when the field is full we protect the naam with a fence
that is sarbloh"

Without naam sarbloh is not pointless but If we jap naam
need sarbloh.

Bhul chuk maaf

Vahegurooojeekaakhalsavaheguroojeekeefathe

" 2. “At Siri Kesgarrh Sahib, at the time when the Khalsa Panth was created this was the actual model which has been passed on Seena Baseena within the Panth in convention over time. Sportive Father Siri Dasmesh Jee implanted the practice of Sarbloh to keep the warrior spirit alive inside the khalsa with each breath. With the form of Sarbloh the Khanda making Amrit Power “Nanak Naam Chardi Kala” forever awakens the Jot inside the Khalsa. Right at the time of birth through the Khanda the Gurrhtee of Amrit was given, right at the birth awakening time the Warrior Sarbloh Power was penetrated to each and every hair of the Khalsa, as accepting this was the permanent and forever hukam engraved on our chest for the Khalsa to always be Sarblohi, whoever keeps this hukam, whoever labors through the struggle of Sarbloh will forever live in Jeevan Mukat Chardee Kala. Warrior Spirit will be surging through his nerves and veins at every moment. He will in high joy play each moment within his fearlessness Naam colored soul".

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, Gurmat Bibek, 217'






Beautifull posts by gurmukhs. SACHE PATASAH bless you all . sereously sarblohi singhs are fearless as well as tough as steel ,because of the sarbloh running in their blood, they always crave for shahidis ,they are really jevan mukat.


by guru's grace i have got a very gurmukh mother, years before my mother asked me, do you know that what waheguru ji likes the most ? on asking i was told that waheguru ji always like two things one is JAPP and other is TAPP. JAPP means to recite naam at every breath until ur last breath and TAPP means to sacrifise ur body , mind and money on naam . a gursikh waking up at amritvela inspite of the tough locks of sweet sleep is TAPP,a gursikh taking cold water shower even in cold wheather is TAPP, gursikh recieting naam sava pehar(around 3 hours and 45 minutes) before sunset in a chaukra is TAPP,withouy caring that what people will say gursikh bride wears baanna and dressed up with shastsrs and chakars to please her groom is TAPP, gursikh always trying to make his 9 indris under control by the help of naam is TAPP,similarly , in an cicumstance where a gursikh has to remain hungary for days as he will only consume the food which is made only by amritdhari gursikhs and in sarbloh utensils is also a TAPP

SO, JAPP and TAPP are the two wheels of the vehicle through which we can reach waheguru. each of JAPP and TAPP are dependent on each other


Daas khima da jhachak hai

Thanks for all the messages under this thread. We all have learned from it. As mentioned before, this thread is now closed permanently.

Admin.