question about Amritvela sangat

Accoring to rehtnaamaas, the morning sangat shud be done at amritvela naam abhiyaas or after amritvela for asa ki vaar kirtan ?
Is it ok to do amritvela alone ?

Thanks

No, never alone. Amritwela should be never alone. Guru must be with you. Keep HIM, beside you, within you.

sorry, in haste, i wrote online sangat in the topic heading, it shud have been amritvela sangat.
Yea thats true, Gurmantar is Gur shabad and Satguru jee works through His Gur shabad.
I just wanted to know if its in rehitnama to do gurmantar abhiyaas in sangat at amritvela.

veerjee, as i understand it everything is better with sangat. i can't see any reason why we should do amritvela alone if sangat is available.
this is one of the most important reasons ghristi jeevan is so important... it brings us lifelong sangat.

think of it this way... one person doing one hour of simran gets one hour's worth of laha. if 100 people do one hour of simran, they EACH get 100 hours worth of laha. sounds like a good reason to do amritvela in sangat to me!

According to Rehat Maryada, Naam Simran and Nitnem comes under personal Rehat. Sangati Amritwela or Sangati Nitnem seems to be a new concept. Though very fruitful, yet we do not find historical references for that. Sangat was traditionally for Kirtan purpose. Of course, closeby or neighbouring Singhs are supposed to sit together on the mat viz.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਕੇ ਹੋਵਹੁ ਜੋੜੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਸਫਾ ਵਿਛਾਇ ॥੧॥
har naamai kae hovahu jorree guramukh baisahu safaa vishhaae ||1||
Let yourselves be joined to the Name of the Lord; become Gurmukh, spread out your mat, and sit down. ||1||

(The meanings above, however, are not for sitting together. Veer Kubir Singh Ji to help please)

Sangat is an open institution. And Simran is not so.

Let us wait, what Sangat says about that.

How Singhs traditionally in Taksal do that?

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to Rehat Maryada, Naam Simran and Nitnem
> comes under personal Rehat. Sangati Amritwela or
> Sangati Nitnem seems to be a new concept.


ਪ੍ਰਾਤਹ ਕਾਲ ਸਤਿਸੰਗ ਨ ਜਾਵਹਿ । ਤਨਖਾਹਦਾਰ ਵਹ ਵਡਾ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ


it is evident from the pangti above that those Gursikhs who dont go for Amrit Vela sangat if its available then they are apostates.

Thank you Veer Ji. That means Amritwela Sangat is must. We must go there if it is there in our reach. But we also need to find out, in the present context of the question, ਪ੍ਰਾਤਹ ਕਾਲ ਸਤਿਸੰਗ implies Simran or Nitnem or Kirtan. Most of the times, Gursikhs used to go to Gurdwara after doing Nitnem at home.

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you Veer Ji. That means Amritwela Sangat is
> must. We must go there if it is there in our
> reach. But we also need to find out, in the
> present context of the question,
> ਪ੍ਰਾਤਹ ਕਾਲ ਸਤਿਸੰਗ
> implies Simran or Nitnem or Kirtan. Most of the
> times, Gursikhs used to go to Gurdwara after doing
> Nitnem at home.


Veer Ji it seems strange to have kirtan during Amrit Vela because Amrit Vela seems more appropriate to recite Paath and do Naam Abhyiaas since its very quite during that time. Bhai Gurdas Ji mentions in the old days the Gursikhs use to go to the Gurdwara Sahib for Nitnem, and usually Naam Abhyiaas proceeds Nitnem

Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji

Kindly, do quote the VAAR, you think, helps us to understand the point. I also searched for that. I found following three Pauris, which give an indication, that before going to ਧਰਮਸਾਲ or ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ, Gursikh have already done a good part of his nitnem.

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠ ਕਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਸਰੁ ਨ੍ਹਾਵੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰੁ ਕੈ ਬਚਨ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਧਰਮਸਾਲ ਦੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਕਰੰਦਾ ।
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਣੰਦਾ ।
ਸੰਕਾ ਮਨਹੁ ਮਿਟਾਇ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੇਵ ਕਰੰਦਾ ।
ਕਿਰਤ ਵਿਰਤ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੀ ਲੈ ਪਰਸਾਦ ਆਣਿ ਵਰਤੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਕਰਿ ਪਿਛੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਆਪੁ ਖਵੰਦਾ ।
ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲ ਪਰਗਾਸ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਗਾਡੀ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਦਾ ॥੧੧॥

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਨ੍ਹਵੰਦੇ ।
ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪੰਦੇ ।
ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕੇ ਲਾਲ ਲਾਇ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਚਲਿ ਜਾਇ ਬਹੰਦੇ ।
ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਲੀਣੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ ।
ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੈ ਵਰਤਿਮਾਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰਪੁਰਬ ਕਰੰਦੇ ।
ਸੰਝੈ ਸੋਦਰੁ ਗਾਵਣਾ ਮਨ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਦੇ ।
ਰਾਤੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਆਰਤੀ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਵੰਡੰਦੇ ।
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਪਿਰਮ ਚਖੰਦੇ ॥੩॥

ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤੀ ਉਠਿ ਬਹੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੈ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਹੋਇ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਚਲਿ ਜਾਇ ਜੁੜੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਤਿ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਪੁਰਬ ਕਰੰਦੇ ।
ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਫਲੁ ਸੁਫਲ ਫਲਦੇ ॥੨॥

I think most of the times, local conditions guide us. If Sangat is there for Naam Simran or Nitnem, one must join them. If it is there only for Kirtan, we are supposed "Personal Rehat" at home.

I am eager to know, how different Jathebandis do that. How was Amritwela rehat of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji or Sant Kartar Singh Ji ? Did they do Naam Simran or Nitnem alone or alongwith fellow gursikhs? Do singhs in Taksal, at their headquarters, do Amrit Wela Nitnem together?

Bhai Rama Singh Ji actively encouraged Amrit vela naam simran in Sangat. In Southall (UK) they started of the concept, attended themselves daily and it continues 7 days a week to date.

I've also heard from a Taksali Gursikh who was a student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, that performing simran within Sangat is far more beneficial than doing it alone.

There are many benefits of Collective Simran, I agree.

Yet there are some unexplained points.

1 One is never free, unless alone.
2. Some may feel shy.
3. Every body is not at same pitch. Higher pitch of one disturbs the other.
4. Where is Gurbani, most of the times, in collective simran? Some sangats have Gurbani and Simran hand in hand. But generally, if their is no common factor of Gurbani, every body moves alone with his mood.

5. I know a Sangat, where Veers, rush to their duties after having a Naam simran session, without even sharing a smile. We shared a Hall, did Simran at our own pitches and rushed on to our own jobs. Where was the Sangat?

These are some observations. I need to improve myself, I think.

Veer Ji here is the verses that come to mind
[www.sikhitothemax.com]


I dont really dont understand this "personal Amrit Vela rehat". This seems like a modern and selfish practice. Where I use to live we use to have Amrit Vela Naam Simran everyday whenever I would ask a Singh to come he would always say I do Nitnem and Naam Simran at home and dont have time to come. Even today I visited the same Gurdwara and I was talking to a Singh and telling him he should go to the program and he said he does nitnem, naam simran, sukhmani sahib at home and doesnt have time to come. To me this is a very selfish attitude. People who selfishly avoid sangat seem to be far from Guru Sahib. I know one Gurmukh who has based his life schedule around Amrit Vela sangat. He takes less pay for not working night shift and he doesnt go out on weekends because he cant miss his Amrit Vela Sangat

amritsar AKJ sangat has been doing amrit vela simran and nitnem together for 30+ years (since pooran darjee came to amritsar at least). is that unique to amritsar?

In Amritsar, as soon as they enter the place, they start with Sukhmani Sahib. Gurbani and Simran go together. Pooran Ji maintained discipline and tempo. If somebody was in higher speed or voice, with simran, he immediately checked that. He himself recited Gurbani Shabads, which worked as motivation and food for the mind. Generally, a continous spell of Simran alone, was not bigger than 5-10 mts. He used to tell incidents sometimes in Amrit Wela. Jap ji used to be done by 2-3 persons, Jaap Sahib by 7-10. He assured participation of each to keep him/her in spirits and attached. He took special notice of the point that Sangat does not do Simran at personal & different levels. "Mill Ke Challo" was his frequent instruction during Amrit Welas. If Sangat did it, as sugested by him, he felt happy and praised it.

Amrit Welas were purely unique with him.

Gone are the days.

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥
ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥
ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥

1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> veerjee, as i understand it everything is better
> with sangat. i can't see any reason why we should
> do amritvela alone if sangat is available.
> this is one of the most important reasons ghristi
> jeevan is so important... it brings us lifelong
> sangat.
>
> think of it this way... one person doing one
> hour of simran gets one hour's worth of laha. if
> 100 people do one hour of simran, they EACH get
> 100 hours worth of laha. sounds like a good
> reason to do amritvela in sangat to me!



As 1Kaur bhein Ji pointed out, there is definately much more laha in doing simran in sangat (as is also vouched for by Bhai Rama Singh Ji in his book). My question to the sangat here is - if due to some reason the actual amrit-wela sangat is not possible/available, does one get a similar (or little less but still substantial) laha from doing simran alongwith the recorded tape?

I mean, sangat doing simran in the tape, and if we do simran alongwith that, won't that still be considered as doing simran in sangat, and would that also give that much laha?

I know it's not ideal and can't replace the actual sangat, but as pointed out earlier, if former is not possible, then is it an 'almost as good' substitute in terms of obtaining laha?

Kindly share your thoughts on this PLEASE!

Dass,
-JP

so i think i'd be adding to jpsingh77 virji.. (and if not, then forgive me)

those that have the chance to go into sangat and decide not to, well, mahraj ji has their account.
but for some of us that dont have the chance for amritvela get-togethers, or doin
naam simran and nitnem with sangat.. what can we use for substitute? or can we even?
so in this case, doing amritvela alone (with guru sahib ji) would be ok, right?
mahraj ji knows we wish to have sangat, but due to circumstances, we're unable to have local sangat,
so as much udum as we can do by mahraj kirpa, that much wld be acceptable,right?


vjkk vjkf

jpsingh77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As 1Kaur bhein Ji pointed out, there is definately
> much more laha in doing simran in sangat (as is
> also vouched for by Bhai Rama Singh Ji in his
> book). My question to the sangat here is - if due
> to some reason the actual amrit-wela sangat is not
> possible/available, does one get a similar (or
> little less but still substantial) laha from doing
> simran alongwith the recorded tape?
>
> I mean, sangat doing simran in the tape, and if we
> do simran alongwith that, won't that still be
> considered as doing simran in sangat, and would
> that also give that much laha?
>
> I know it's not ideal and can't replace the actual
> sangat, but as pointed out earlier, if former is
> not possible, then is it an 'almost as good'
> substitute in terms of obtaining laha?
>
> Kindly share your thoughts on this PLEASE!
>
> Dass,
> -JP


Anyone please?

> book). My question to the sangat here is - if due
> to some reason the actual amrit-wela sangat is not
> possible/available, does one get a similar (or
> little less but still substantial) laha from doing
> simran alongwith the recorded tape?

There can't be any harm in doing Abhyaas while listening to a recording but it can't be equated to doing Abhyaas in Sangat. While you can get the sound in the recording you can't get the vibrations coming out of Gursikhs sitting in Sangat.

In Gurbani there are both kinds of Hukams i.e. doing Naam Simran in Sangat and doing in alone.

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠ ਕਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਸਰੁ ਨ੍ਹਾਵੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰੁ ਕੈ ਬਚਨ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਧਰਮਸਾਲ ਦੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਕਰੰਦਾ ।
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸੁਣੰਦਾ ।
ਸੰਕਾ ਮਨਹੁ ਮਿਟਾਇ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੇਵ ਕਰੰਦਾ ।
ਕਿਰਤ ਵਿਰਤ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੀ ਲੈ ਪਰਸਾਦ ਆਣਿ ਵਰਤੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਕਰਿ ਪਿਛੋਂ ਬਚਿਆ ਆਪੁ ਖਵੰਦਾ ।
ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲ ਪਰਗਾਸ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੰਦਾ ।
ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਗਾਡੀ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਦਾ ॥੧੧॥

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਨ੍ਹਵੰਦੇ ।
ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪੰਦੇ ।
ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕੇ ਲਾਲ ਲਾਇ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਚਲਿ ਜਾਇ ਬਹੰਦੇ ।
ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਲੀਣੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ ।
ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੈ ਵਰਤਿਮਾਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰਪੁਰਬ ਕਰੰਦੇ ।
ਸੰਝੈ ਸੋਦਰੁ ਗਾਵਣਾ ਮਨ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਦੇ ।
ਰਾਤੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਆਰਤੀ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਵੰਡੰਦੇ ।
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਪਿਰਮ ਚਖੰਦੇ ॥੩॥

ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਪਿਛਲ ਰਾਤੀ ਉਠਿ ਬਹੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੈ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਹੋਇ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਚਲਿ ਜਾਇ ਜੁੜੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਤਿ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਮਨਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਦੇ ।
ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਪੁਰਬ ਕਰੰਦੇ ।
ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਫਲੁ ਸੁਫਲ ਫਲਦੇ ॥੨॥

In the above stated Pankitis of Bhai Gurdaas jee, the Hukam is to do Ishnaan and Naam Abhyaas at personal level and then to go to Satsangat. Having said that, there are also Pankitis in Gurbani that clearly give Hukam to go to Sadhsangat and "Bhaj keval Naam". I believe there is no need to do Bharam on this issue and do as one finds more Laaha. Of course, there is no match when one does Abhyaas in like-Avastha Gurmukhs.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Thank you Bhai Sahib!