ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ/ਕਲ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥

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The bani being discussed comes under "ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਦੂਜੇ ਕੇ ੨ ". Which means bani written in praise of Guru Angad Dev jee. Other ਸਵਈਏ too contain bani of 2-3 bhatts under the same sirlekh.

The numbering system in Bhatt Savvaie is unique and different from Bhagat Baani. In Bhagat Baani, for the most part, each Bhagat has different Sirlekh but in Bhatt Baani, we have to determine the next Bhatt based on numbering system. Please read the detailed post Daas wrote on the numbering system in Bhatt Baani, within this thread.

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If Raamkali Kee Vaar can be co-authored by 2 individuals.(numbering system doesn't distinguish Balwand and Satta in Raamkali Kee Vaar either). Then why the 10th pauree cant be by Tal ?

Because the numbering system in Bhatt Baani is unique and different from Ramkali kee Vaar. Notice how the numbering system works in Savaiyas of Mahalla 3, 4, and 5. There can't be one system in Savaiyas of Mahalla 1 and 2, and another in Savaiyas of Mahalla 3, 4 and 5.

Baaki Guru Sahib knows better. The above is based on the meagre understanding of this Daas. Gurbani is Agam Agaadh Bodh.

And NS jeeo, this thread is Daas' way of opening a scholarly debate on this issue. I agree that there needs to be more Vichaar. Please make suggestions. Perhaps, a formal written presentation can be sent to SGPC.

Kulbir Singh

Please try and get more images of puratan saroop where it is written - so kaho kal

'Please try and get more images of puratan saroop where it is written - so kaho kal'

I have done some research in regards to use word of kal in puratan saroops on panjab digital library:

MN-000561
MN-000614
MN-000618
MN-000383
MN-000920
MN-000097
MN-000503
MN-000357

Just copy and paste individual codes into search bar of [www.panjabdigilib.org].
Maybe somebody can take pictures and post up.
So in total I found 8 saroops with the word 'Kal' .

Also there is book on the site 'BK-000958' called 'paath bhed di suchi' authors bhai Randhir Singh bhai Gian Singh researchers at SGPC.
This book is really interesting in regards to puratan saroops.
On page 791 it gives list of many saroops that have word 'Kal'.
Also on page 867/858 it gives some info on dates likhari of puratan saroops. Saroop number 7 refers to bhai Hardas ji saroop. It's unfortunaute that their is no key giving full information of old saroops. However I haven't fully read this book, their might be key somewhere.
I'm sure bhai Kulbir Singh ji and other members on this forum will be interested in this book.

Also their are 2 other book that are important in regards to puratan saroops.

'BK-001202' Puratan Bidan Te Vichar
'BK-000215' Puratin Biran Te Vichar

Author swami Harnam Das Udasi. BK-001202 gives details on bir of bhai Hardas ji wale bir. Book BK-000215 gives details on Paakhar Mal Dhillon saroop.

You have to register with site first to fully view manuscripts.

I urge sangat on this forum who have much more knowledge than this insect to do further khoj. PDL is doing great seva.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Vaah Gupt1 jeeo for your wonderful post and providing list of Puratan sources.

This link will provide invaluable research source for all of us.

Kulbir Singh

MN-000561----page 1602
MN-000614----page 1199
MN-000618----page 1588 (lal'la has an aunkar though)
MN-000383 ----page 970


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Bh. Kulbir Singh, please also checked Mehalla:10 .....very baffled here.

Various Kachi banis exist in these saroops after Mundhavani.

Chota veer