Krishna's residence in Gyan Khand ?

I have read in some post that according to Veer Kulbir Singh, avatarr of hindu matt Krishna lives in Gyan khand. But in our daily nitnem in tav prasad svaiyiye, we read

brahm mahesar bisan sachepatt, antt fasse JAMM fass parange

If Vishnu cannot escape Jamm, how can the incarnations of Vishnu escape Jamm ???

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I have read in some post that according to Veer Kulbir Singh, avatarr of hindu matt Krishna lives in Gyan khand. But in our daily nitnem in tav prasad svaiyiye, we read
brahm mahesar bisan sachepatt, antt fasse JAMM fass parange
If Vishnu cannot escape Jamm, how can the incarnations of Vishnu escape Jamm ???

I wrote that Krishna, Mahesh, and even Buddha go up to Gyan Khand, based on the following Pankitis that appear in the Gyan-Khand Pauri of Siri Jap jee Sahib:

ਕੇਤੇ ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਵੈਸੰਤਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕਾਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੇਤੇ ਬਰਮੇ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਅਹਿ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਕੇ ਵੇਸ ॥

The thing to note is that there is not one Krishna but countless of them in this Khand. Their abode lies in this Khand.

The Pankiti from Savaiye that you quoted goes as follows:

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

This pankiti says that eventually, Brahma, Mahesh, Vishnu and husband of Shachi (Indra the king of Swaraglok) will die. What's the surprise here? After all, these too are different Joonis only and people who do good work get rewarded and become Devtas. Ones who do tremendously good works can become higher Devtas like Indra, Brahma, Mahesh etc. This is why there is Pankiti in Siri Jap jee Sahib that says that by listening to Gurmat Naam one can become Ishar, Brahma and Indra but Gurmukhs don't want to become these Devtas. They want to be with Vaheguru in Sachkhand.

But how does this Pankiti contradict the Pankiti in Siri Jap jee Sahib that says that these Devtas have their abodes in Gyan Khand? No one said that people in Gyan Khand don't die. As per Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee all Khands with the exception of Karam Khand and Sachkhand are transcient i.e. temporary and will get destroyed one day.

Kulbir Singh

Veer jee,
The pankiti from Tav prasad Svaiyiye says that Brahma, vishnu, mahesar are taken by Jamdoot which means they have to face the Dharam Rai. How can people who are taken by Jaam be in Gyan Khand ?

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Veer jee,
The pankiti from Tav prasad Svaiyiye says that Brahma, vishnu, mahesar are taken by Jamdoot which means they have to face the Dharam Rai. How can people who are taken by Jaam be in Gyan Khand ?

The question you have raised is valid but we ought to believe that Gurbani does not contradict itself. In Dharam Khand there are hells where Jeevs get punished for their sins and some get to live in heavens as reward for their good deeds. The Devtas like Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh etc. do not reside in Dharam Khand. So they ought to be in Gyan Khand and the Gurbani Pankitis describing Gyan Khand too say that.

As for the Pankitis of Savaiye that these Devtas are taken by Jammdoots could mean that once they exhaust their Jooni of Devta, they are probably brought back to Dharam Rai to be sent to the next Joonis because they don't get emancipated through the Joonis of Devtas.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Maybe this tuk from tavprasad svaye is talking about the krishna we know and jap sahib is stating that millions of krishnas reside in gyaan khand. I've heard that the krishna we know did commit manmat actions so maybe this krishna had a different fate?

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Maybe this tuk from tavprasad svaye is talking about the krishna we know and jap sahib is stating that millions of krishnas reside in gyaan khand. I've heard that the krishna we know did commit manmat actions so maybe this krishna had a different fate?

But Savaiye are talking about Vishnu and not Siri Krishna; albiet they both are same - Krishna is the foremost avatar of Vishnu.

Kulbir Singh

This tukk from Tav prasad svaiyiye means that even Brahma, Shiv and Vishnu are not free from the noose of Jamdoots. Thats a very important piece of information as many people in India (including the sikh "babas") compare Krishan and Ram with Guru Nanak Dev jee. They say that just as Ram and Krishan were avtars from previous yuggs, Guru Nanak Dev jee is avtarr of Kaliyug.

How can someone who is under the noose of Jammdoots be compared with Guru form of Vaheguru ?????

ਨਾ ਓਹਿ ਮਰਹਿ ਨ ਠਾਗੇ ਜਾਹਿ ॥


Guru Sahib has clearly stated that in Karam Khand that nobody can be robbed of life.Hence JaamKaal has no effect in this region. But under Karam Khand, JaamKaal can take anyone away in whatever reigion they are. So Krishna will eventually be removed from Gian Khand.

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They say that just as Ram and Krishan were avtars from previous yuggs, Guru Nanak Dev jee is avtarr of Kaliyug.

How can someone who is under the noose of Jammdoots be compared with Guru form of Vaheguru ?????

Point well taken, Veer Harinder Singh jeeo. There is no comparison between Guru Sahib and Krishna or Rama. Those who compare them and try to bring them on equal footing are far from Gurmat. There are millions of Avtaars in the Charan-dhoor of Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

Veer Ji, we have to read this Shabad, as well, in this discussion.

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ
> ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ
> ॥
> In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to
> deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.
>
> ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ
> ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ
> ॥
> In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called
> Raam of the Raghu dynasty.
>
> ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ
> ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ
> ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
> In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were
> Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
>
> ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ
> ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
> You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You
> blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.
>
> ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ
> ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ
> ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
> In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You
> are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad
> and Guru Amar Das.
>
> ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ
> ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ
> ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥
> The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging
> and permanent, according the Command of the Primal
> Lord God. ||7||
>
> Veer Ji, we have to read this Shabad, as well, in
> this discussion.


In Satyug, Treta and Duapar, Vishnu avatar was sent to this earth. Vishnu resides in Giyan khand and according to above discussion, is under the noose of Jammdoots.
In Kaliyug, GURU AVATAR came to this world. Guru lives in Sachkhand and is the Guru Form of Vaheguru.

It was the shakti of Guru that was working behind the righteous actions of Vishnu avatars of previous yuggas