Question about souls in Karam Khand

I was listening to Kulbir Singh jee's lecture on Karam Philosophy. He said that only in Sachkhand our jeev aatma remains without a body.
So there must be some body in Karam Khand.
Its also written in Jap Ji Sahib that in Karam Khand Jodhe mahabali and soorme souls live.

My question is that since there is body in karam khand, does that body need food ?

Thanks

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sikh.learner
My question is that since there is body in karam khand, does that body need food ?

What is the definition of body and who defines it ?

Does that body needs oxygen to breath. Then the atmosphere of Karam Khand needs to have similar ratio of Nitrogen-Oxygen to support life. Does that body has digestive system, bowel, stomach, kidney, liver, pancreas, intestine etc .... to process food. What about food itself. Does it has vitamins, calories, carbohydrates, fat, cholesterol, protein etc ... are those applicable. Does this food requires soil, photosynthesis, carbon, minerals etc... to grow. The moment you start connecting these dots, in end you will create Earth itself.

We tend to see/understand things of other domain from the domain where we stand. The framework of Maatlok is not applicable to framework of other Khands and vice-versa. What prevails in entire universe uniformly is the Truth. But Maya gets transformed as per domains. The soul (Jot) is Truth and prevails uniformly. The body & food is Maya and gets adapted to sphere.

Degh is BRAHM BHOJAN. It shud be available in Karam Khand.
bhull chukk di maafi

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sikh.learner
Degh is BRAHM BHOJAN. It shud be available in Karam Khand.

Who prepares Degh ? Khalsa, right ? Are you saying Khalsa goes to Karam Khand ?

Atma is not made up of tatts but it cannot be called A-Tattan. Only God is A-tattan(In Sri Jaap Sahib, Guru Sahib says God is a-tattan saroope).
Rest all creation is made up of tatts. Even Sachkhand is made up of tatts.
As we go higher in the creation, tatts keep on getting better.
Heaven in Gyan Khand is much more beautiful than our world.
Saram khand is much more beautiful than heaven.
Karam Khand is much more beautiful than saram khand. Karam Khand is full of SARBLOH.
Sachkhand is also made up of tatts.
Karam Khand and Sachkhand can be destroyed but God DOES NOT do that.
Aatma can also be destroyed if God wants.
Amazing degh is available in Karam Khand. Sachkhand does not have DEGH as to eat degh u need a body.
Khalsa is present in both Karam Khand and Sackhand.

Just wanted to add, In Guru Granth Sahib Jee, aatma has also been called dusht so i am very sure aatma can be destroyed but it happens very very very rarely.

[gurmatbibek.com]

evil bammans souls who preach dooja bhau(dooja bhau menas love for devi devta and not for God) plan the attack on Sri Harmandir Sahib do ghor ghor ghor ghor ghor ghor ghor ninda of Gursikh yodhas like Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, their souls can be destroyed.
Rest only God knows.

What is the composition of Degh in Karam Khand - Wheat, Gheo, Sugar, Water ?

If soul is destroyed then whom is jamdoot after ? who is cycling through chaurasi ? Who is gonna - ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਇਆ ॥

<>

yes that shud be the composition but I dont know how they these things are available in Karam Khand as to get these things u need to do kheti and shud have cows but DEGH IS DEFINITELY AVAILABLE IN KARAM KHAND.

There is also a Gurbani tukk that in God's kitchen aataa(wheat) is available.

But i dont know how Khalsa Fauj in Karam khand gets access to wheat gheo sugar etc.

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i am 110% sure degh is avaiable in Karam Khand.

How does Khalsa Fauj in Karam Khand get access to wheat and gheo and sugar etc?
They dont do kheti in Karam Khand or keep cows but they do get gheo and sugar.

There is a sakhi of Miri Piri de maalak blessing a poor family that u keep this white cloth on the utensil and langar will never finish.
There is a Gurdwara Sahib of Miri piri de Malak in vilage Ghudani Kalan near ludhiana. Its called Bharolla Sahib.
Guru Sahib gave varr(blessing) that unlimited Makki will keep coming out of the Bharolla for future generations but one lady tried to look into the bharolla and after that makki stopped coming out.

My point is that even in this world we can get makki wheat etc without doing kheti(agriculture)
Bhai Randhir Singh jee has written that if degh is prepared with full maryada it will never finish even if sangat is in very very large numbers.

<>>

In Chaupai Sahib Guru Jee says

ਜਬ ਉਦਕਰਖ ਕਰਾ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਧਰਤ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
जब उदकरख करा करतारा ॥ प्रजा धरत तब देह अपारा ॥
When the Creator projected Himself, His creation manifested itself in innumerable forms;

ਜਬ ਆਕਰਖ ਕਰਤ ਹੋ ਕਬਹੂੰ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਤ ਦੇਹ ਧਰ ਸਭਹੂੰ ॥੩੮੯॥
जब आकरख करत हो कबहूं ॥ तुम मै मिलत देह धर सभहूं ॥३८९॥
When at any time He withdraws His creation, all the physical forms are merged in Him.389.

Soul(aatma) can be kept in dormant phase and can also be destroyed.
Destruction of soul is a very very very very very very very very rare event but it can be done.

I have a feeling quite a few bamann souls will be destroyed by God in the future.

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sikh.learner
DEGH IS DEFINITELY AVAILABLE IN KARAM KHAND.

Who does kirpan bheta of the degh in karam khand and in whose hazoori ?

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Destruction of soul is a very very very very very very very very rare event but it can be done.

Is there a Gurbani reference, backing up your statement that a soul can be destroyed?

Kulbir Singh

Veer jeeo,
My gurbani abhiyaas is very less. I do more naam simran than Gurbani these days and I dont have any Gurbani reference. But the tukk where Guru Sahib says "doojai bhau DUSHT AATMA" has TOTALLY CONVINCED me that soul can be destroyed.

According to my Pyare Vadde Veer Kulbir Singh jee, dusht is meant for antishkaran(mann,chit,surti etc)

We all agree that Soul=antishkaran + Aatma

Here are few of my thoughts..
God also has mind(mann) but Maya can never leave any dark spot on His mind whereas mind of soul gets dirty by maya.(mind of people with doojai bhau gets dirty to such an extent that it is called DUSHT in Gurbani.)
So mind of God and mind of soul cannot be made of the same matter.

Similarly aatma part of the soul and param-aatma are also made up of different matter.
Aatma is ROOP of Paramaatma but its not same as Paramaatma.

jaskirat Wrote:
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> > DEGH IS DEFINITELY AVAILABLE IN KARAM KHAND.
>
>
> Who does kirpan bheta of the degh in karam khand
> and in whose hazoori ?


I have a feeling that bhog of degh can be done by SHASTAR BHETA. If u dont have kirpan, u can do bhog of degh with other shastars like khanda , katarrr too.(Katarr is a beautiful shastar and very laadla shastar of Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee)
Karam khand is full of sarbloh
Karam khand is full of Shastars,

RAAJ KAREGA KHALSA

Aatma is ROOP of Paramaatma but its not same as Paramaatma.

I will try to explain the above pankiti.
What is the TATT MEANING of the word ROOP.?

We have people in the world who have same shakalll(face). They are roop of each other but are different entities.
Similary Aatma is roop of Paramaatma but is different from paramaatma.

My dear veer,

I feel like you are lost or getting stuck in non gurmat views.

There is not any physical shastars or degh (as per this world) in karam khand. There is beyond worldy taste there then you can call amrit or even degh, if it pleases you, but it wouldn't be the degh of this world. Karam khand is similar to sachkhand and is way beyond the worldy physical elements. This is the khand of waheguru's prakaash, in sachkhand waheguru's darshan is even more intense then in karam khand. The things in sharam khand, karam khand and sachkhand cannot be described.
Try reading jap ji sahib with more dhyaan and learn the arths. We can only say there is indescribable light, very sweet amrit beyond imagination, countless naads beyond worldy sounds, divine scent beyond anything in this world and extreme feeling of pleasure in the three upper khands. However only karam khand and sachkhand are forever.

Even Gyaan Khand is almost indescribable and very blissful. Only tiny parts of gyaan khand can be attempted to be put into words.

Dharam Khand can be described a bit better in words, but even in dharam there are many things that cannot be compared to our world, hence cannot be put into words.

Are the budda dal singhs telling you all this stuff? If so, I highly suggest you take a small break from budda dal sochni and read the following books by Bhai Sahib:
Sachkhand Darshan
Charan Kamal ki Mauj
Anhad shabad dasam duar

First time ever I've heard that atma can be destroyed. Instead of destroyed, gurbani teaches us the sinful jeev gets punsihed and put in endless joons, rather then destroyed.
In Karam Khand and Sachkhand atmaa is in it's original form.

I'm sorry if I sound rude but your misinformation must be challenged.

You seem to be 110% sure about a lot of things that are very questionable.

Bhai Kulbir Singh seems to be in a calm and polite mood at the moment and has not really joined in this topic yet properly. So I thought I'd jump in for the meantime.

To end here is what Guru Sahib says about the very beautiful SaramKhand (the third khand) in Sri Japji Sahib:

qw kIAw glw kQIAw nw jwih ]
thaa keeaa galaa kathheeaa naa jaahi ||
These things cannot be described.

jy ko khY ipCY pCuqwie ]
jae ko kehai pishhai pashhuthaae ||
One who tries to speak of these shall regret the attempt.

No chotte veer, In karam khand aatma is not in its original form, it has a body. Karam Khand is full of SARBLOH.

I have huge respect for Dal Panth and Budha Dal but I dont follow any organization blindly. I take GUNNS from all.
I dont agree with Budha Dal on lots of issues like
1. shastar pooja they do
2.they dont like AKJ way of doing vahegurrrrrruuu.
3. they eat lots of meat( meat shud not be eaten or eaten very less)
4. shaheedi degh shud nave no cannabis or very less cannabis(5 patte)
5. Budha Dal say vedas are fine and according to me vedaas are kachi baani.Brahma who wrote vedas is a candidate for jammdoots.

So, dont consider me to be mouthpiece of one organization.
I have love for all organizations like AKJ, Dal Panth, Damdami Taksal.I do have dislike for deravaad and I have strong strong dislike for present day HINDUIZED NIRMALAS.

<>

Do u then believe in Shaheed Singhs ? Shaheedi Fauj 96 crore??

Shaheed Singhs wear blue bana. Do u believe in this ??

Shaheed Singhs carry amazing shastars. Do u believe in this ??
There are true stories of Shaheed Singhs giving SODHA to people smoking near Gurdwara Sahib or doing beadbi of Nishan Sahib.
How did they give SODHA? Without Shastars ???

these day we have missionary type "sikhs" who dont believe in Sarbloh, Shaheed Singhs, Khalsa Fauj in Karam Khand etc.
These missionaries are NINDAKS and NARAKK DE KEERRRE.

So my pyare veer vivek, dont become a missionary type sikh.Read books of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and become a good jatha singh
who believe in shaheedi fauj, shastars and sarbloh



Dhan Dhan SARBLOH JEEEEEE
Without Sarbloh there is no dietary bibek

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Few more thoughts.

Only conscious entity who can be called AAD SACH is God.
Naam is also AAD SACH but it is non-conscious.

Many nihangs use the word AAD-Shakti. Only AAD Shakti is Naam.
If there is some AAD Sach conscious entity that will be God's consort(just as parvati is shiva's consort)

soul is conscious entity. if we say soul is aad sach, that means God had souls as his consorts which is not true.
so soul was created and is not aad sach and as a result can be destroyed.
anything that is created can be destroyed.

You just ignored everything I said. But chalo let me have a final say anyway:

Yes dear I believe in shaheed singhs and shaheedi fauj who are countless in numbers
I don't know what point you're trying to make.

I don't know where sarbloh bibek came into this topic. All jatha singhs believe in the authenticity of sarbloh bibek rehit.

I'd rather not get into a debate with you because your way of talking doesn't seem good and it is obvious that you will not listen to anyone.
If other prominent members of this site will remain quiet then so will I.
Please feel free to carry on as you were..

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
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> Destruction of soul is a very very very very very
> very very very rare event but it can be done.
>
>
> Is there a Gurbani reference, backing up your
> statement that a soul can be destroyed?
>
> Kulbir Singh

Pyare Vadde Veer Jee ,
found one gurbani tukk for you.
First 6 pauris of 21st Ashatpadi of Sri Sukhmani Sahib explain the AAD SACH CONCEPT OF GOD.

ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥

When only God existed and he was in sunn samadhi, did a conscious being called soul exist ?
If we say yes, that means God had a consort but we Sikhs know God has no consort.
So the answer is no. When God was in His sunn samadhi, soul did not exist.

So God created soul afterwards.
Anything that is created can be destroyed.
ONLY GOD is ਸੈਭੰ

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Pyare Vadde Veer Jee ,
found one gurbani tukk for you.
First 6 pauris of 21st Ashatpadi of Sri Sukhmani Sahib explain the AAD SACH CONCEPT OF GOD.

ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥

When only God existed and he was in sunn samadhi, did a conscious being called soul exist ?
If we say yes, that means God had a consort but we Sikhs know God has no consort.
So the answer is no. When God was in His sunn samadhi, soul did not exist.

Being in Sunn Samadhi means that all Aatma are totally leen in Vaheguru but it does not mean destruction of souls. You said that it's possible to destroy a soul but it happens very rarely; what's the basis of this statement? Which soul was destroyed historically?

Guru Sahib in the above Pankiti is talking about the creation and destruction of ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ i.e. this visible corporeal world.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pyare Vadde Veer Jee ,
> found one gurbani tukk for you.
> First 6 pauris of 21st Ashatpadi of Sri Sukhmani
> Sahib explain the AAD SACH CONCEPT OF GOD.
>
> ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ
> ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
> ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ
> ਹੋਤਾ ॥
> ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ
> ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
> ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ
> ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥
>
> When only God existed and he was in sunn samadhi,
> did a conscious being called soul exist ?
> If we say yes, that means God had a consort but we
> Sikhs know God has no consort.
> So the answer is no. When God was in His sunn
> samadhi, soul did not exist.
>
> Being in Sunn Samadhi means that all Aatma are
> totally leen in Vaheguru but it does not mean
> destruction of souls. You said that it's possible
> to destroy a soul but it happens very rarely;
> what's the basis of this statement? Which soul
> was destroyed historically?
>
> Guru Sahib in the above Pankiti is talking about
> the creation and destruction of ਅਕਾਰੁ
> ਇਹੁ i.e. this visible corporeal world.
>
> Kulbir Singh

the point I am trying to make is God is Aad Sach. Souls are not Aad sach.
God is Sai-bhun(g). Souls are not Sai-bhun(g).

If we say souls are Aad Sach, thats equalent to saying God had consorts. Then some RSS narakk da keeera might say that sikhism also believes in consort. Bhagauti is the most powerful soul. So God's name is Shiv and Parvati(bhagauti) is His primary consort and God has billions of other consorts(souls) as well.

sikh.learner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the point I am trying to make is God is Aad Sach.
> Souls are not Aad sach.
> God is Sai-bhun(g). Souls are not Sai-bhun(g).
>
> If we say souls are Aad Sach, thats equalent to
> saying God had consorts. Then some RSS narakk da
> keeera might say that sikhism also believes in
> consort. Bhagauti is the most powerful soul. So
> God's name is Shiv and Parvati(bhagauti) is His
> primary consort and God has billions of other
> consorts(souls) as well.

Soul is drop of water and Vaheguru is ocean. Try to understand the analogy if you can. Drop is not consort. ਪਿਹਲਾ consort ਦੀ ਪਰਿਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਸਮਝਣ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕਰੋ ਜੀ। ਹੁਣ ਅੱਜ ਕਲ ਨਿਹੰਗਾਂ ਚ ਦੇਖੀਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ, ਮਾਯਾ, ਲਛਮੀ ਜਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਕਿਹਕੇ ਕਈ ਹੁਣ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦੀ ਅਰਾਧਨਾ ਕਰਣ ਲਗਪੇ ਨੇ। ਇਸ ਨੂੰ consort ਕਿਹੰਦੇ ਨੇ।