ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥
Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Gurmat perspective on Hare Krishnas?

Posted by MaiKoNaRakhanda 
I have been reading about Hare krishnas and have to say I am very impressed with some of their ideas and emphasis on doing naam simran of their own mantar.
What is the Gurmat perspective on their religion and beliefs?

Also, I found this Hare Krishna account of creation- some of it is similar to sikhi, i.e. vaheguru being in every particle. Can gursikhs please provide a gurmat perspective on this?

Quote
hare krishna
The Vedic version of creation clearly explains step by step how it takes place and it is important to know at least the principal sequence. As you will see from the information given below, creation starts with the topmost spiritual planet, eternally manifested by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, and ends with the manifestation of the lower, material energy. In other words, the model is exactly the opposite of present day scientists who claim that everything comes from practically nothing and that consciousness is a product of matter. The Vedic view shows how this is illogical and it also transcends all other creation models put forward by different pious cultures.

1. The original spiritual planet, which resembles the whorl of a huge lotus flower, is called Goloka Vrndavana. It is the abode of Lord Krsna, the original Personality of Godhead.

2.This original planet, Goloka, throws off a spiritual ray of effulgence called brahmajyoti-which is the ultimate goal of the impersonalists.

3.Within this unlimited brahmajyoti there are unlimited numbers of spiritual planets, as there are innumerable numbers of material planets within the sun rays of the material universes. These spiritual planets are dominated by plenary expansions of Lord Krsna, and the inhabitants there are ever-liberated living beings. They have bodily features like the Lord and are full of bliss, knowledge and eternal. The Lord is known there as Narayana and the planets are known as Vaikunthas.

4. Sometimes a spiritual cloud overtakes a corner of the spiritual sky of brahmajyoti, and the covered portion is called the mahat-tattva. The Lord, then, by His portion as Maha-Visnu, lies down in the water within the mahat-tattva. This water is called the Causal Ocean (karana-jala).

5. As He sleeps within the Causal Ocean, innumerable universes are generated with His breathing. These floating universes are scattered all over the Causal Ocean. They stay during a breath of Maha-Visnu.

6. In each and every universal globe the same Maha-Visnu enters again as Garbodhakasayi Visnu and lies there on the Garbha Ocean on the serpentine Sesa incarnation. From his navel-abdomen sprouts a lotus stem, and on the lotus, Brahma, the Lord of the universe, is born. Brahma creates all living beings of different shapes in terms of desires within the universe. He also creates the sun, moon, and other demigods. Krsna further expands Himself as Ksirodakasayi Visnu, and enters everything--even into the minute atom.

7. The sun is situated almost in the center of each and every universe, and it distributes profuse light and heat all over the universe. There are millions and billions of suns in all the millions and billions of universes within the mahat-tattva. The suns and moons are required within the universes because they are dark by nature. The Vedas instruct us to go out of the dark universes and reach the glowing effulgence, the brahmajyoti.

The brahmajyoti is due to the illuminating Vaikuntha planets, which need no sun or moon or power of electricity.

The entire material creation is only 1/4 of the entire creation of Krsna....the spiritual sky accounts for the other 3/4.

The goal of our existence is to leave the material universe and again have association with the Lord in His spiritual universe, either on the Vaikuntha planets with Krsna's Narayana expansions or directly in Krsna's lila in the Supreme Abode, Goloka Vrndavana.

By following the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and the previous acaryas one can go back home, back to Godhead, Krsna.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Baba Amar Das Ji used to be a Hare Krishna untill he had the fortune of meeting Satuguru it was at this point he realized the futility of such a faith like the Hare Krishnas. Hare Krishnas they have some very good beliefs like Human life is meant to escape lakh charsi joon, but their method is shortsighted.

A few years back I used to work with a Hare Krishna- Guju. He noticed I was doing paath and he asked me how much simran I do. I told him I dont know I dont count. I asked him how much simran he does he said I do two hours of Hare Krishna mantar a hour day on my mala. I said " thats nice do you have specific times for prayer like early morning prayers, evening prayers, night prayers". He said no thats for brahimns. Thats all I can remember about my conversation with him.

I dont know how their beliefs on creation is similar to Sikihi?
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Similar concepts I found were things like 'brahmjyoti' which seemed really similar to naam pervading the creation/all pervading jot parkash that people see during jot vigaas. Also that they believe all the creation is an expansion of one spiritual planet (like we believe about sachkand).

I was very surprised to see that even they acknowledge that baikhunts and heavens are not the highest realms but just heavens and that there is something higher to ask for which is almost the same as what we believe.


How do these things tie in with sikhi? Like I said brahmajyoti pervading the universe is almost the same as when we say naam is pervading the universe. Have they actually realised this truth but accidently attributed it to Vishnu?
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Srila Prabhupada formed the society 'ISKCON' (International Society for Krishna Consciousness). The popular name Hare Krishna came into being because they loudly recite their mantra which is 'Hare Krishna Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare'.

Their's is branch of vaishnava bhakti marg. Vaishnava bhakti precedes Sikhi in historical sense. Almost all the ideas of Gurmat already existed in Vaishnava bhakti eg importance of naam simran, keertan etc. In fact this is so remarkable that I feel the only major difference between them and Gurmat is their believe in Krishna as the Supreme Godhead while Gursikhi believes in Formless God. We believe Krishna was an avtaar and he was created by Akal Purakh and they believe that Krishna himself was the Akal Purakh.

In fact, if you pick up any of their articles and replace word Krishna with Formless God or Waheguru you'd find the whole article is agreeable to Gurmat point of view (except of course the things/ideas like mala or tilak or cow pooja and other exterior practices)

If one wishes to read up on original historical sources of bhakti ideas like 84 lac jooni and other Lokas and Yamadoots and various such things one can find all these preserved in this tradition. Srila Prabhupada has uncompromisingly spoken and written on these.

Srila did a mistake of bringing the westerners into the fold and giving them absolute power. They took over the organisation and it is believed that it is they who poisoned Prabhupada in his last years. He was murdered for power and money control.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Prabhupad was a very remarkable man who came to America with just a few dollars and took it by storm. He formed a giant organization and converted thousands of Americans. Another remarkable thing about him was that he did not sugarcoat any of his teachings nor did he create the American version of the Gaudiya Samprada (his original Samprada). Still he was able to convert so many Westerners. On the other hand, our modern Sikhs sometimes change the Sikhi concepts to make them seem more acceptable to the Westerners.

In any case, the above quoted description of creation of this world does not match with Sikhi. It's quite different. All this talk of Brahmjyoti etc is not mentioned in Gurmat literature. In Gurmat all happened with just "Eko Kvaao". The description of Baikunth is accurate but all the Baikunths lie in Gyaan Khand, which is much lower than Sachkhand. All this talk about material creation being 1/4th of the entire one is also not acceptable in Gurmat. Gurmat believes that Qaadir and Qudrat, both are Beant, and therefore immeasurable.

What else to say, Gaudiya Samprada is part of the Vedant school of Hindus and Gurmat is distinct to all 6 schools of Vedic philosophy.

Kulbir Singh
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Yes Kulbir Singh ji, your are right, the strongest aspect of Prabhupada was that he never diluted the traditional teachings even one bit. In contrast sadly we can see what Yogi Harbhajan did. I doubt if he had any kamai, and in order to establish himself and to attract white followers he decided to bring in Yogic practices. Now today these gorey sikhs have made a world market for themselves by selling yogic music concerts, online downloads, CDs and camps. ਇਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੀ ਮੰਤਰ ਬਣਾਈ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ , ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਚੋਂ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਓਹਨਾਂ ਨੂ ਅੱਗੇ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਕਹਿਣਗੇ this is a secret ancient mantra.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Thank you all for your replies. I would also please like to ask bhai kulbir singh ji and others if you could please share a comparison between bhagvad gita and gurmat? The principles in the bhagvad gita are clearly quite good and gurmat also preachers bhagti but I want to know how has Gurmat moved it further? What is being preached as sikhi currently is similar to bhagvad gita matt (keertan, naam simran etc.) However there is no doubt that Sikh is much higher. Where does the gita's philosophy lack and what are the differences with gurmat?
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
The basic difference between Gurmat and others is that Gurmat is not just any framework within which one works one's mukti. It is a framework for deliverance of a particular divine substance , one which is peerless and incomparable. This is Satnaam. And this is one thing which differentiates Sikhi from others even when at surface things may seem similar.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login