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Is Sikhi failing

Posted by akaal74 
Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 10:44AM
Daas is writing this post with a big question which has come up in my mind recently. Please do not think that I am questioing Guru sahib or the power of bani or naam... but the practicle life examples are difficult to answer.

When I got married... we were unable to find any keski wearing singhni for one reason that we were considered 'low caste'... The same happened with my sister.. Now my younger brother facing the same problem.. We were all well qualified, have tried to follow gursikhi paath as much as we can.. but all life seen our parents facing discrimination and same with us...

If this was done by some ordinary people I will understand.. but when amritdhari sikhs who are supposed to be doing simran every day end up discrimnating in name of caste how can someone understand the power of naam..

I have seen hundreds of sikhs who never miss amritvela... always attend every samagams... keep all kind of rehat... but they eventually are jatt, ramgarhia or something when it comes to dealing with marriages in their families. Why their jeevan has become spiritual in all ther realms but not in this basic of sikhism principle....

I have started feeling that all the panthic jathebandis preach against casteism but majority of their members follow it to the core.. What's the point of any other rehat when u can't get out of ur caste
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 12:07PM
Akall Ji

You have rightly pointed out the basic weakness enherant in our families. It is so true. I also personally know, the men and women also, who are Amritdhari & good at REHAT, yet suffer from this social stigma.

I feel following reasons, for this crippled behaviour.

1 There are only rare gursikhs who have attained Spiritual Upliftment up to a level, where social taboos are thrown away like waste materials. Most of us are cowards.

2. People are so much serious and worried about the married life of their children that they do not want to take any risk at their level of decision making. Sometimes the children are much more bold in their decisions as casteless society, but the parents are not so. Obedient Amritdhari children have to obey their parents.

3. Out of caste marriages, sometimes seem to be more popular in non amritdhari families, than in amritdhari families.

4. """""What's the point of any other rehat when u can't get out of ur caste""""..................................No one is perfect. So weaknesses go with us. We try to follow some rehat and fail in others.

5. This is "interesting" part of our social life. We should not bother about the weaknessses of others. No one is inferior. We are inferior to none. Those who are weak and worry about caste system are, inferior in fact. As Gurbani says, those who take pride in their "high"caste are fools.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 01:05PM
What is caste? Really nothing. Just a superstition carved in people's minds, which they believe to be "real" or "abstract". Really, it has no form or color. These imaginations and superstitions are so deeply carved in people's minds, that some even go to the degree of killing another person to defend this superstition.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 01:56PM
Akaal74 veerji,
You are very right in pointing the issue we have regarding the caste system for marriage. The answers I got from my elders including very chardi kala gursikhs is as follow:
Gursikhs are not supposed to hate anybody or think person is inferior or not eat from them because they belong to low caste however when its the marraige time the scenario is different because gursikhs are trying to find someone who has been brought up in similar environment as their kids. The fear that the their daughter or son will not be able to adjust to other family's way of living makes Gursikh seek someone within their own caste as they feel secure in making that decision.
Is this correct? I do not know, its hard for me to blame this thinking of gursikhs, they are not showing bias in other treatment, its just marriage they show this bias because they are worried about the future of their kid and want the marriage to be succesful. Does marriage within caste guarantees success? NO but that is how we have been for genrations.
I must say things are changing for current generation. I cannot speak about India but gursikhs in Foreign countries have started ignoring this factor when deciding the marraige of their kids.
As MB singh veerji said nobody is perfect but we should all strive to see bigger picture and also "marriage is sanjong" and maybe when the time is right your brother will be blessed with right person he is supposed to be with.
Bhul chuk muaf.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 03:18PM
I am still waiting for someone to reply and help out akaal74 veer.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 06, 2014 04:10PM
One thing to add is that one should not marry out of caste to prove a point, only if the match is a suitable one for the couple. It becomes tricky when parents insist as in the past everything was arranged purely based on parents seeing usually the girl and on top of this they would send someone to the area and investigate the family background. In this era there are chances for the prospective couple to talk and ask questions before deciding if compatible and parents should support if they like each other and level of Sikhi on both sides is understood and accepted to prevent future complications. For sure the OP is correct in saying casteism is still alive and kicking within all Jathey. Only rare Gursikhs will accept other castes into their family and still live happily as Gursikhs.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 02:09AM
Is there a solution? Why don't the gursikhs set example in this case. Bhai Randhir Singh set an example when he challenged the social circle and took amrit with a muslim. Unfortunately even those who speak against this evil have their surname attached in the end as if there is no world without this surname..
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 05:49AM
Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Jio atey Punj Pyareo wbo gave me Khandey Batey Ki Pahul without having me declare anything except to promise to maintain rehit, and Gurbani seva...

bhul chuk muaf Vahiguroo
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 10:25AM
I do not personally know anything about you so my comments are general and only my personal opinions. I won’t speak to why many Gursikhs choose to marry within their own “caste” or tribe but the solution is very simple for you. Look elsewhere to find a match. Many may disagree with me on this point and it may not sound pleasing but one should not restrict themselves to a particular jatha i.e. Taksali must marry a Taksali or AKJ must marry within AKJ. While we all agree that caste is against Sikhi, having a jatha mentality is not any better. It is proving to be a big hindrance in unity in the Panth these days. You need to open yourself to the entire Panth and find someone who either has Gursikh qualities or is striving to keep rehat. As long as you both agree on minimum amount of rehat and are open-minded to learn gurmat and strive to keep more and more rehat, your marriage will be successful.

Sometimes a newcomer to Sikhi is better than someone who is already keeping a strict rehat but is not willing to compromise even a little on controversial points or inter-mingle with other groups. By compromise, I don’t mean to give up rehat but being mindful and tolerant towards different viewpoints and having “agree to disagree” viewpoint. Sometimes a clean slate is better than a scribed slate. Many times it is harder for Sikhs belonging to a jatha to show flexibility and tolerance towards others due to how they were raised and influence of friends, family and relatives.

So my advice would be to look in all jathas as well as the rest of the Panth to find someone who is willing to walk on the path of gurmat and having an open mind to accept gurmat viewpoint which may go against their long held belief and then thanking Guru Sahib for correcting their misunderstanding. It is ok to marry someone who doesn’t believe keski is kakkar but willing to tie dastaar and it is equally acceptable to marry someone who believes in raag maala but willing to compromise on not having it read after Akhand Paath. The criteria must be Sikhi not caste, jatha or controversial points in choosing a partner. This ensures progress. Guru Rakha
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 12:28PM
Excellent post by Bijla Singh Ji.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 01:24PM
You're propagating bujjer kurehits, Bhai Bijla Singh.
Half of the "Sikhs" these days aren't even given "Amrit" in the presence of the True Guru - The Laridaar Saroop of Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
Is it actually really "Amrit" then?
Also, how can you it's okay for someone to deny Keski is Kakaar, when Guru Patshaah has said that the Kakaar is Keski.
Your mindset will create a lot of rifts and confusions, and will only lead to arguments and fights. You are imagining some fairy-land or ideal world.
I would rather not be married than marry some Taksaali bibi. My Sikhi matters to me first before anything.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 03:20PM
VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Vaheguru - I will just leave this here and maybe it will find some use and relevance.

Shaheed Bhai Surinder Singh "Sodhi" was the right hand man of Sant Jarnail Singh. He was given Amrit at 21 days old and the seva was done by Akhand Keertani Jatha. And yet, he also joined Hariavela Nihung Singhs and did seva as a Granthi Singh and bodyguard of Baba Nihal Singh there. He then went to Damdami Taksal after meeting Sant Jarnail Singh and did santhiya at Taksal and was entrusted with the title Gyani.

[1984tribute.com]
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 03:21PM
Singh_91, everything you said above I could agree with to a great extent up until you said this:
"I would rather not be married than marry some Taksaali bibi...." .

You know that this is a Gurmat forum not specific to jatha alone and for someone who might be a taksali reading this, that would be highly demeaning. I have no issues with your personal opinion but this is a public forum and learn how to think of the implications before you write something for everybody to read.

This comment can easily snowball into a inter-jatha contest.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 03:35PM
When getting married, due consideration should be given to Rehit compatibility of Singh and Bibi; otherwise, Rehit differences can lead to conflicts within the marriage. We have seen many marriages getting into trouble because of this.

Another point to note is that when unmarried people get Pesh to get Amrit, one of the condition that Punj Pyare lay is that their future life partner should be of ਸਮ ਰਹਿਤ (same Rehit). So when getting married, it should be ensured that both Singh and Bibi follow the same Rehit. Rest Guru Sahib knows the best.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 03:57PM
Quote

You're propagating bujjer kurehits, Bhai Bijla Singh

There is not a single line in my post advocating bajjar kurehats. Perhaps you should go over the four bajjar kurehats again and see if Raag Maala, keski kakkar etc. find any mention in them.

Quote

Half of the "Sikhs" these days aren't even given "Amrit" in the presence of the True Guru - The Laridaar Saroop of Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
Is it actually really "Amrit" then?

The issue can be resolved by simply communicating to the other member that they should consider repesh at Amrit smagam and conduct Anand Karaj in presence of Larrivar Saroop. By calling them “patits” or “kurehatis” you are simply driving them away by demeaning and insulting them, thereby, causing divisions in the Panth instead of fostering unity. A gursikh is open-minded and strives to learn gurmat regardless of which jatha he obtains the information from. Those who are true gursikhs will have no problem in retaking Amrit but a correct approach must be adopted to convince them.

Quote

I would rather not be married than marry some Taksaali bibi. My Sikhi matters to me first before anything.

Thank you for proving my point. It is this exact attitude of “my sikhi”, “my rehat”, “only my jatha with gursikhs and all other inferior” and “my jatha Amrit valid only” that is the cause of “rifts and confusions” that “lead to arguments and fights”. It surely makes it easier for the enemy to pick us one at a time and finish us off.

Quote

You are imagining some fairy-land or ideal world.

Just look at the prevalent condition of the Panth to see the result of the attitude like yours.

My comments are simply my opinions and I wrote from personal first-hand experience but I don't expect a person with jatha mentality to understand them let alone agree with them.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 04:37PM
"I would rather not be married than marry some Taksaali bibi. My Sikhi matters to me first before anything."

This is very hateful and anti gurmat attitude to have. Through my own experience I can attest Taksali Bibi Jis have many good gurmat qualities. If anything, I would have a preference to marry such a Singhni who have a simple approach to Sikhi and willing to live a life in obdeience to Gurus hukums.

For some unknown reason every girl my parents and friends have tried to arrange my marriage with has come from a Taksali background which is funny because my parents and friends have no jatha background. Each one of these Bibis have been willing to accept wearing keski at all times, not reading raag mala during sehaj path/akhand paath and keeping sarab loh bibek. Try to find an AKj bibi willing to accept Sarab Loh bibek. All I can say is GOOD LUCK ! Try to find an AKJ Bibi willing to get up for AMrit vela and do naam jap and nitnem. Good luck! Every Taksali Bibi I have talked to has said they will keep the same rehat as I do, since Taksali and AKJ rehat are for the most part similar. I have even told them they can read raag mala for their own pleasure, but the only thing I wouldnt want is for them to do bhog of raag mala in front of the children, and they have all mentioned that Raag Mala is not an issue to create conflicts within in the family. The only difference is in all cases these Bibis had brothers of a narrow mind set and did not want to marry their sister to someone who doesnt believe in Raag Mala, and so marrying into such problems would lead to family conflicts.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 04:51PM
Fully agreed with Bhai Kulbir Singh's comments.

Just my 2 cents:
1. The only thing that concerns me is when people start calling out other jathebandis in public for no reason and start pointing out flaws in other people's rehats. It only promotes hate.

2. Issues like marriage are way too complex and it is all sanjog. One should stop giving their opinions on things which they haven't had a first hand experience of (and this applies in general as well and especially to the youth).
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 07, 2014 05:15PM
Quote

Try to find an AKj bibi willing to accept Sarab Loh bibek. All I can say is GOOD LUCK ! Try to find an AKJ Bibi willing to get up for AMrit vela and do naam jap and nitnem. Good luck! Every Taksali Bibi I have talked to has said they will keep the same rehat as I do, since Taksali and AKJ rehat are for the most part similar.

Good Bibiaan and Singhs, willing to follow Gurmat Rehit, can be found in all Jathas.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 12:09AM
I live amongst born sikhs, now practising other religion due to marriage, maya...mostly, because Sikhi did not work for them to solve their issues...did not make them of high maya status, or provide a big bank account, as sister of one rich once sikh...now sai baba follower...this sister goes for Istri sat sang Sukhmani Sahib DAILY...yet tells me to pray to sai baba...drink jal of musalman...cause red color something keeps revealing itself to me day, night, at my pillow...in my sleep...CAUSE I HAVE WEAKEN MY REHIT, TOTALLY LOST AMRITVELA...GURU SAHIB JIO NADAR...also now live for maya working, chatting 12 hours almost daily, when my bad karam persists living in jalandha jagat...
At one gurduara, I was sworn at by hateful looking patit sikh, because I wanted to help myself to pakorey instead of his hateful hands...
A once dastaar wearing punjab sikh chopped up his wife, just 3 months after she came from punjab to join him...they live walking distance from this gurduara, that totally ignores Guru Gobind Singh Jio rehit...
Marriage, unity of panth is jhoot if rehit is to be compromised...rehit is sach...REHIT IS PYARA TO GURU GOBIND SINGH JIO not weak sikhs who are rolling in dust of maya Jio!
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 12:18AM
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Kulbir Singh [ PM ]

The Pious Gurmukhi Life of Sant Maghar Singh jee - Part 1 
May 13, 2010 08:08AM

I first heard about Sant Maghar Singh jee 20 years ago. It was mentioned that Sant jee did a lot of Sewa during the Singh Sabha movement. Actually Sant jee did sewa during the years of Gurdwara Reform movement as opposed to Singh Sabha movement. Sant jee came on the Panthik scene around 1919 and by 1924 he left for Sachkhand but in these 6-7 years he did such massive Parchaar of Sikhi that it is hard to find such example anywhere else.

From the time I heard about Sant jee, he got carved in stone, on my heart. A warm feeling always engulfs me when I hear about him. In these years, some information about Sant jee was collected and presented below is his brief life. Most of this has been taken from Bhai Babu Singh Ramgarh's book on Sant jee's life.

Childhood and Marriage

Sant Maghar Singh was born in 1890 in village Ramgarh, district Faridkot. From his early childhood he had spiritual inclinations which were greatly augmented because of his closeness to his Gurmukh grandfather (grandfather’s brother) Baba Bahaal Singh jee. He got deeply attached to Baba jee at early age and even used to sleep with him. Baba Bahaal Singh and his brother Baba Jeeta Singh had fought against the British in Anglo-Sikh wars. Baba Jeeta Singh was martyred in these battles and Baba Bahaal Singh seriously injured. Since Baba Bahaal Singh jee used to get up at Amritvela and do Naam Abhyaas and Gurbani Paath; and Sant Maghar Singh jee too got this habit of getting up at Amritvela, early on in his life. When he was around 14-15, he was married to Bibi Dhan Kaur jee.

About Sant jee it’s written that he was a born Gurmukh because he had massive Bhagti from previous lives. He had formed love with Gurbani at a very early age and this love became an obsession as he grew up. He started doing Kirtan and Akhand Paath during his childhood.

He grew up to be a very tall, strong and handsome young man. He was about 6’4” tall and his body was very strong. When he was about 17-18, he joined the army and was selected at first instance because of his tall and strong body.


Sant Maghar Singh jee Ramgarh

Life in Army

In army, he formed a Kirtani Jatha and used to do Siri Asa kee Vaar kirtan daily at Amritvela. Sant jee’s voice was very sweet, heavy and loud. In those days, there were no loudspeakers but his voice could still be heard up 2 miles. The Singhs who became members of this Kirtani Jatha stayed within the Jatha even after they had retired from the army. Sant jee’s Bhagti had started giving fruit and whatever he said unwittingly used to come true. This increased Sant jee’s respect and honour within the Sikh soldiers of his unit of army.


British Officer who kicked Karaahee of Degh

In 1914, the First World War broke out and Sant jee’s unit was sent to France to fight the Germans. While they were on the ship to France, they continued to do Kirtan and Bhagti all day long. Once Singhs prepared Degh for a Gurpurab and Sant jee’s Jatha did Kirtan in that Samagam. A British Sergeant named Carlton came and kicked the Utensil carrying Degh. Singhs were obviously very upset and thrashed him. He went running to the commanding officer Mr. Hill and complained that Singhs had thrashed him and were going to throw him in the ocean. Mr. Hill was very upset and scolded the Singhs. When Singhs told him that the Sergeant had kicked at the utensil carrying Degh, he pacified a bit.

In the meantime Singhs were going to throw the Degh in the ocean since it was not suitable to get Bhog of Guru Sahib but Mr Hill objected to this and ordered the Singhs to use the Degh since nothing had touched the Degh itself and it had not been contaminated by touch. Singhs went quiet and were thinking what to say. In the meantime, Sant jee spoke up in Chardi Kala, “Listen Sahib jee, we have sold you our body but not our Sikhi. Don’t interfere in our religious affairs.” Saying this he ordered the Singhs to throw the Degh in ocean. Singhs fulfilled the order and then new Degh was prepared for Gurpurab. Mr Hill just kept quiet and did not stir the issue any more.

Now all Singhs who were on the ship considered Sant jee to be their leader.

Singhs Arrive at France

When the ship reached France, Sant jee told Mr Hill that Sikhs would come out of the ship led by Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Very respectfully, Siri Guru jee’s Saroop was carried out, followed by all Sikh soldiers. French people who had come to welcome the Sikh soldiers, asked about Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and when Mr Hill told them that the Sikhs considered Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee to be their living Guru, they were quite astonished.

The Singhs were allowed to rest for about a month or so, before the actual battle started. Before going in the war, Sikh Faujis (soldiers) performed an Ardaas before Guru Sahib. Sant jee in his lecture to Sikh soldiers reminded them to keep honour of Sikhs and never give back to the enemy. Sant jee asked the soldiers to either attain martyrdom or victory. The Singhs in army were filled with Bir Rass and this resulted in their eventual victory.

Singhs Refuse to eat from hands of British

After beating the Germans in a battle front, Singhs arrived back at their camps. They were informed by Mr Hill that their Desi Raashan (food material) had expired and as such they would have to eat food like bread, biscuits etc. prepared British and French cooks.

When Sikh soldiers including Sant jee heard this, they refused to eat from the hands of people who ate Kutha and consumed Tobacco. When the officers heard this, they assembled all soldiers of the Sikh regiment and threatened that they would have to eat what they were given and if they refused, they would be given death penalty.

Before anyone else could speak, Sant Maghar Singh jee at once came in front of Mr Hill and said, “O Sahib, Singhs are not scared of death. We have come here to save you all from death and we have been saving you from death all these months. Now you are trying to scare us with death? The day a Sikh takes Amrit, he gives up the fear of death and never compromises on his Dharma (religion)”.

When the soldiers heard Sant jee’s courageous Bachans, they immediately said in one voice that they were willing to face the consequences of not eating non-Dharmi food, even if it meant death for them.

Sensing the response of the Sikh soldiers, Mr Hill got a bit pacified and requested, “We would provide you with very good food and also double in quantity. What’s wrong in eating this food?”

Sant jee responded, “It does not matter how good the food is because it is not suitable for a Sikh to eat this food as it violates his religion.”

Mr Hill got very upset when Singhs refused to obey his Hukam and he said that he would see how long they would hold on to their faith. He ordered that food supplies be stopped for these Singhs.


Singhs fight the Germans without Food for 8 days

After Mr Hill left, Singhs assembled at the Gurdwara Sahib and there Sant jee addressed them very forcefully and reminded them of the sacrifices of Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee, Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee and Sahibzade. Sant jee gave a very powerful lecture on not losing faith and honour and to not compromise on Dharma. After this Sant jee did very Chardi Kala Kirtan. Singhs were filled with religious fervour. They vowed to die but not compromise with Sikhi.

Singhs continued to fight the Germans for 8 days. Germans heavily bombarded the area where the Singhs were stationed. There were no camps and no barracks. Sikh soldiers were staying at the houses of the French people. So heavy was the bombardment that the French left their houses and fled. Sikhs soldiers were the only ones left there as the residents had pretty much left the place for safer places.

Soldier Mansha Singh gets slapped by Sant jee

A Sikh Soldier by the name of Mansha Singh was coming back to his place when he noticed an abandoned house. He entered the house and found a whole garage full of apples. He filled his bag with apples thinking that Singhs were hungry for so many days and why not feed them apples. He came to Sant jee and said, “Bhai Sahib jee, Sebh Chhako (please eat apple)”. Sant jee asked him where he had got the apples from and at this Mansha Singh narrated how he got the apples.

At this, Sant jee forcefully slapped Mansha Singh and ordered him, “O Bhale Maansa (good man), we are facing heavy fire from the front and heavy bombardment from the sky. Death is roaming around and you still stole apples? Go and put the apples back from where you got them.”

When Mansha Singh came back, Sant jee lovingly said, “O Bhale Maansa Bandiya (O good man), if you had been caught stealing, all Sikhs would have gotten bad name. Never steal again and never take that what is not yours.”

A Miracle related to Food Supplies

After this incident, Sant jee thought that Singhs were increasingly becoming desperate because of hunger. He took 5 Singhs and performed an Ardaas before Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee requesting Him to keep honour of His Singhs. As soon as they had finished doing Ardaas, a Singh came to Sant jee and said that 2 bags full of Desi food supplies were available for Singhs about 2 km from there. He asked Sant jee to send a Singh and get those supplies. Sant jee sent 2 Singhs in a jeep to get the supplies. The 2 Singhs arrived and saw a very Darshani Singh waiting with supplies. He helped them load the supplies on jeep and left so soon that it seemed as if he had just vanished in thin air.

The whole Sikh unit cooked food and ate for the first time in 8 days. Someone complained to Mr Hill that Sikhs had stolen food from somewhere. Mr Hill came to the Sikh officers and inquired where the Raashan (food supplies) had come from. The Sikh officers said that Sant Maghar Singh would know and advised him to inquire from him.

Mr Hill and the Sikh officers came to Sant jee and asked about the Raashan. Sant jee replied, “Our Guru, Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee had spent 20 rupees on feeding the hungry holy men and that 20-rupees-Raashan still has not been expired by Sikhs and it never will be. Where ever there is Sikh Sangat, there is Guru ka Langar. We had done an Ardaas before Guru Sahib and accepting our Ardaas, Guru Sahib sent us Raashan for Langar. And now listen up O Sahib, by evening ships full of our Raashan will arrive and there will be no more shortage of Raashan (food supplies).”

And this is exactly what happened. Food supplies arrived in abundance and Sikhs kept their faith without compromising. Mr Hill was very impressed and now he too developed a feeling of Shardha (faith) for Sant Maghar Singh jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

More on Sant jee’s life to follow in the coming 

ant Maghar Singh Jio NEVER MARRIED, STARVED BECAUSE REHIT OF GURU GOBIND JIO IS SACH TO HIM Guru Pyareo Jio!
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 02:53AM
Its unfortunate this thread turned into Jatha vs Taksal issue. If we can't get beyond this mentality forget about getting above casteism...

There may be and no doubt are rehatvaan sikhs in all jathas but majority of them are engulfed in caste pride. I would suggest to close this topic here as I don't think I will ever get answer to this question.. Only guru sahib can do kirpa and bring us all out of these evil practices.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 07:54AM
Bhul chuk muaf Akaal74 Jio,
Focus on game of love of Guru Gobind Singh Jio...all is His test of our love ji...if we want to be loved by those who judge us based on our caste, and Vahiguroo, it is not realistic ji...
GURBANI REMINDS US THAT NO ONE WANTS TO BE FRIEND OF SAINT...Guru Sahib Jio faced much discrimination, ridicule...to inspire us to keep up with kanio tiki path...
or as myself, icha to be amongst those who stay focused on Him, instead of what caste etc ji...
that is how I perceive Sach response from Bhai Bijla Singh, and Bhai Kulbir Singh.

bhul chuk muaf Vahiguroo..
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 09:06AM
Veer Ji you have asked three types of questions. I am responding, again briefly.

Is Sikhi failing?

I think, it is better to say that we sikhs are failing as sikhs. Why should we say that sikhi is failing.

What's the point of any other rehat when u can't get out of ur caste?

Something is always better than nothing. If someone keeps REHAT and fails in "anti caste battle" ; he/she does not desrve our hate.

Is there a solution? Why don't the gursikhs set example in this case?

Solution is there within our reach. We are not supposed to make them think, as we think. Let them live in their small world. We can live as GURU SAHIB JI tells us. Surely, we have a vast world to explore before us, than their world. We are lucky and of higher caste than theirs.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 10:11AM
Thank you KS and MB Singh Ji

Your responses make sense. Sikhi can not fail and sorry I didn't want to ridicule or diminish the importance of rehat. I agree that there are rehatvaan gursikhs in all jathebandis and they all are better then dass..

My concern is that the spiritual progress of the majority of gursikhs has not reached a stage where they can break this caste/jathebandi barrier. hence the frustration..I faced this and I have seen my siblings going through the same again and again.

Finally I would like to share my own story.

As I mentioned in my first post, dass didn't get any singhni from jatha or taksaal etc as almost everyone who my parents talked to were more interested in finding out "apni biraadari kehdi hai.." etc rather then finding out if I keep rehat, do amritvela, do kirtan... This included some very high profile people from the jathebandis as well and I would not name anyone as some of them are role models for a lot of youngsters. Eventually I married an amritdhari bibi who didn't followed any of the key jathebandis... had just been to her local Gurdwara sahib where SGPC had organised an amrit sanchar. She fulfilled the basics of SGPC rehat maryada but did not wear a keski.. No one in her family once asked me and my family for our caste. In fact only after we got married I was made aware by some of her relative that her family was 'higher caste' smiling smiley But no one in her immediate family ever had any iota of caste fever. With guru sahib's kirpa she did go for keski later and had naam drirr as well..

That's why I started questioning the big jathebandis. These organisations set such high standards and expectations in terms of rehat but their membership is failing the jathebandis. As Bhai Bijla Singh said we all need to think that there are gursikhs outside Jatha and Taksaal.

This is a gurmat forum and I wanted to stir this debate amongst the members that as we all measure our spiritual progress we need to also start assesing ourselves against the metrices like caste, jathebandis... the day we start seeing one in all beyond these barriers will be the day we truly have realised the Akali Jot.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 02:00PM
Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I would rather not be married than marry some
> Taksaali bibi. My Sikhi matters to me first before
> anything."
>
> This is very hateful and anti gurmat attitude to
> have. Through my own experience I can attest
> Taksali Bibi Jis have many good gurmat qualities.
> If anything, I would have a preference to marry
> such a Singhni who have a simple approach to Sikhi
> and willing to live a life in obdeience to Gurus
> hukums.
>
> For some unknown reason every girl my parents and
> friends have tried to arrange my marriage with
> has come from a Taksali background which is funny
> because my parents and friends have no jatha
> background. Each one of these Bibis have been
> willing to accept wearing keski at all times, not
> reading raag mala during sehaj path/akhand paath
> and keeping sarab loh bibek. Try to find an AKj
> bibi willing to accept Sarab Loh bibek. All I can
> say is GOOD LUCK ! Try to find an AKJ Bibi
> willing to get up for AMrit vela and do naam jap
> and nitnem. Good luck! Every Taksali Bibi I have
> talked to has said they will keep the same rehat
> as I do, since Taksali and AKJ rehat are for the
> most part similar. I have even told them they can
> read raag mala for their own pleasure, but the
> only thing I wouldnt want is for them to do bhog
> of raag mala in front of the children, and they
> have all mentioned that Raag Mala is not an issue
> to create conflicts within in the family. The
> only difference is in all cases these Bibis had
> brothers of a narrow mind set and did not want to
> marry their sister to someone who doesnt believe
> in Raag Mala, and so marrying into such problems
> would lead to family conflicts.

Although commendable that you speak highly of the Taksali bibian you have met due to them 'compromising' what they believe to be Guru Sahibs rehat, and they can see past the issues you mention, it is unfair to then target their brothers. At the end of the day whether AKJ or Taksali both can be defined as narrow minded when rehat differences are brought to the fore as usually no side are willing to budge.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 03:52PM
Unjaan Ji,
Im sorry, but if someone is referred to as " Ram Rai" just because they dont read Raag Mala then I must say such people are narrow minded. The panth is equally divided on this issue of Raag Mala, so there is no reason for such name calling. If I want I can turn the tables and refer to such people as " Merhvan"or " Harji" but there is need for these games, such games are for children.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 04:06PM
Bhul chuk muaf Vahiguroo Jio atey Sant Maghar Singh Jio for typo error in missing out 'S' in Sant Maghar Singh Jio, who only cared about rehit and getting laha of Gurbani to maintain jodharia with Vahiguroo...wherever Vahiguroo's tests took Him...
That is all we should be concerned with Akaal74 Jio!smiling smiley
Vahiguroo Guru Gobind Singh Jio will lead those destined to lead Sach path within all jathas...we are just insects...He is King Guru Granth Sahib Jio leading game of Sach love...

Bhul chuk muaf Vahiguroo
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 04:18PM
ਆਪਾ ਕਬੱਡੀ ਦਾ ਮੈਚ ਹੀ ਨਾ ਰੱਖ ਲਈਏ ?
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 04:37PM
Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unjaan Ji,
> Im sorry, but if someone is referred to as " Ram
> Rai" just because they dont read Raag Mala then I
> must say such people are narrow minded. The panth
> is equally divided on this issue of Raag Mala, so
> there is no reason for such name calling. If I
> want I can turn the tables and refer to such
> people as " Merhvan"or " Harji" but there is need
> for these games, such games are for children.


Agree with what you say and that is clearly playground behaviour, but as I mentioned it applies to both camps in the wider context.
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Re: Is Sikhi failing
October 08, 2014 04:41PM
Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ਆਪਾ ਕਬੱਡੀ ਦਾ ਮੈਚ ਹੀ
> ਨਾ ਰੱਖ ਲਈਏ ?


Hahaha, nahi ji sareer garam karan ley hor bahut gati vidhian hun :-)
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