Jhoraya di seva

I've seen people clean shoes and wipe the cloth on their forehead for the dhoor of sangat, which is great. My question is from the way the dust is collected. Everyone I have seen do this wipes the cloth on top of the shoe, but is this the correct method? Surely the dhoor we need is from underneath the foot? So, would not the best place to wipe be inside the sole of the shoe?

My answer would be ridiculous to you veer jee. Actually what a Gurmukh needs is charan di dhoor not jhorya di dhoor.I dnt know whether I am right or not.But we can get charan dhoor from inside shoes not from underneath of it.Thats what I think Baki Guru Maharaj knows well.If you think underneath is better then you can go with that.The main thing is that we make understand our maan that:

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Sarab Kee Raen Hovee Jae Taan Gat Jeaareee Teri.

Bhul Chuk maafi jee

No, im in agreement you bhai sahib, it should be cleaned inside. But everyone I see cleans the the top of the shoe, which i think may be incorrect, as we need the dhoor from underneath the foot, which surely is inside the shoe??!! :s

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But everyone I see cleans the the top of the shoe, which i think may be incorrect

We cannot change the views of all people.Its impossible.

Im not looking to change, it maybe just misinformation and awareness that needs coming to light.

No jee, shoes are meant to be cleaned outside. Yes the dhoor is contained inside.
So if cleaning shoes do it outside. If you want the sangat's dhoor then no cleaning required just gather dust from inside the shoe with your hand.

In Puratan times , Gursikhs were sandals which were open in the front. Still in India and hot places like California most Gursikhs wear sandals to the Gurdwara Sahib so it doesn't make a difference. In places were the climate is much colder then shoes and boots are more popular, but either way by cleaning the top nothing goes to waste as you are doing seva of cleaning the sangats shoes.

I still think by cleaning the top you are still taking the dust of the sangat. If a person wears sandals they will collect dust on bottom of their feet, if a person wear close toed shoes then the dust will come on the top either way the dust of sangat is there whether on bottom, outside, inside , or below it makes no difference. The only maryada is to jaap naam while doing the seva otherwise sookam haumi will have a dominant effect on the mind.

Sukhdeep Singh I was expecting a more reasonable answer from you. Sangat's dhoor is collected on top of the sole or sandal if we want to put it on our forehead. If you would want to clean the shoes, which I havent seen people doing that much in Canada, it can be done with a brush or a rag.

Gursimran Singh Jee, some years ago we use to live in an area where Singhs use to gather at Amrit Vela every day. We noticed the older Singhs doing Jhorira Da Seva where they would wipe the shoes on the top. While in Canada we saw sangat just touching the top of the shoe with their hands and putting the dust on their forehead. Its not so complicated . The purpose of the seva is to gain humility by being dust of sangats feet. When someone does such seva they become the dust of the sangats feet. We remember reading Bhai Sahib Bhai Rama Singh Jis biography. One day a sick lady came to him and asked how she can be cured. he recommended her to wipe the shoes of sangat and place the dust of the shoes on the spot where she was sick. She did this and she was cured.

I'd like to know if charan dhoor referred to in Gurbani is physical or more related to being in Sangat. If it is can someone please explain what Guru Sahib means by ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਦੇ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥ ਹਮ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਣ ਪਖਾਲਦੇ ਧੂੜਿ ਘੋਲਿ ਘੋਲਿ ਪੀਜੈ ॥੧੨॥

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I'd like to know if charan dhoor referred to in Gurbani is physical or more related to being in Sangat. If it is can someone please explain what Guru Sahib means by ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਦੇ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥ ਹਮ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਣ ਪਖਾਲਦੇ ਧੂੜਿ ਘੋਲਿ ਘੋਲਿ ਪੀਜੈ ॥੧੨॥

Though I think its a possibility that charan dhoor can be relating to being in sangat I don't see the harm if it is taken in the literal sense as well.

When I went to Sri Anandpur Sahib sangat would walk the steps up Sri KeshGhar Sahib the sangat would wash their feet in the middle of the steps. Some people would also drink this water since sangat washed their feet in it. Same with sarovar in Sri Harmandir Sahib. We saw Gursikhs bathing in sarovar and some Gursikhs drinking holy water from sarovar. Also in Sri Hazoor Sahib we noticed sangat bathing in Godavari river and sangat drinking from this water.

In Puratan times in Sri Anandpur Sahib sangat use to bathe in Sultej river and according to history the water used for original amrit sanchar came from sultaj river. Same with water from Sri Harmandir Sahib this water used to be used during charan di pahaul sanchar. I remember reading in Gurbilas there is mentioning that Charan Di Pauahl was used by getting water from wiping the feet of 5 Gursikhs. I don't know if this is true but its mentioned.

From what I've been taught drinking water where Sangat wash their feet is not allowed and contrary to Gurmat, not all washing their feet are Gurmukhs. In terms of collecting water from Sutlej that seems fine as water quality in the past was certainly of higher quality and Guru roop Panj Piyare change the properties of the water through the Amrit Sanchar and it is no longer just ordinary water. I see dhoor as doing Sangat of Gursikhs and japping naam. This seva is to sprout water like nimarta in the sevak - water always finds the lowest ground. These are just my thoughts, and of course I'm willing to change if someone can explain where my thinking is flawed.

Dr. Ganda Singh Ji mentions that the Mughals were puzzled by the strength of the Singhs. They were told that as long as the Singhs bathe and drink the holy water from Sri Harmandir Sahibs sarovar they would continue to grow stronger. The Mughals then put a lock down on Sri Harmandir Sahib and shot anyone who try to bathe or drink from the sarovar. They even filled the sarovar through the carcasses of cows. Eventually Jathedar Jassa Singh Ji Alhuwalia killed the then governor Slabat Khan and took over Amritsar. It was at this point Sri Akhand Paath sarovar was started and the use of kumb ( pitcher of water) was included in Sri Akhand Paath. This pitcher of water was only used for Akhand Paaths only when there was an amrit sanchar and the pitcher of water was taken from the Amrit Sarovar. I don't consider there to be any jhoot in Amrit Sarovar if there was then why would we bathe in it? Sri Guru Ji gives us hukum to bathe in Sri Harmandir Sahib Sarovar.

ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰੋਵਰਿ ਨਾਤੇ ॥ ਸਭਿ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਤੇ ॥

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Unjaan
From what I've been taught drinking water where Sangat wash their feet is not allowed and contrary to Gurmat

This is 101% correct in present time.

Today, on this planet nothing is more supreme than Amrit prepared by Panj Pyare in hazoori of Guru Maharaaj. Once the praani has taken Amrit it is his/her responsibility to guard it from getting destroyed.

In present time Sangat takes chula from 'Har Ki Paudi' in Darbar Sahib Amritsar.

Drinking from where sangat wash their feet (in Gurdwaras around the globe) is Manmat. Propagating these ideas in the name of Charan Pahul is to refrain sangat from taking Real Amrit - Khande Di Pahul, as directed by Kalgidhar Dasmesh Pita Jee.

Personally I feel this is some conspiracy of hindu samaj so that Sikhs do not take Real Amrit and become Real Khalsa. It is not hidden from anybody what is Punjab population drinking today and what is their Avastha. There is an english saying - "You are, what you eat (or drink for that matter)".

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
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> Dr. Ganda Singh Ji mentions that the Mughals were
> puzzled by the strength of the Singhs. They were
> told that as long as the Singhs bathe and drink
> the holy water from Sri Harmandir Sahibs sarovar
> they would continue to grow stronger. The Mughals
> then put a lock down on Sri Harmandir Sahib and
> shot anyone who try to bathe or drink from the
> sarovar. They even filled the sarovar through the
> carcasses of cows. Eventually Jathedar Jassa
> Singh Ji Alhuwalia killed the then governor Slabat
> Khan and took over Amritsar. It was at this point
> Sri Akhand Paath sarovar was started and the use
> of kumb ( pitcher of water) was included in Sri
> Akhand Paath. This pitcher of water was only used
> for Akhand Paaths only when there was an amrit
> sanchar and the pitcher of water was taken from
> the Amrit Sarovar. I don't consider there to be
> any jhoot in Amrit Sarovar if there was then why
> would we bathe in it? Sri Guru Ji gives us hukum
> to bathe in Sri Harmandir Sahib Sarovar.
>
> ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰੋਵਰਿ
> ਨਾਤੇ ॥ ਸਭਿ ਉਤਰੇ
> ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਤੇ ॥

How can we at this present time drink from the Sarovar when smokers, drinkers etc also bathe in the sarovar? One can still bathe and not drink from the Sarovar. Maybe in the past there were more Ramdas than now