Question - "Why is Vaheguru quiet?"

A non-Amritdhari who does a lot of Simran and Saadhna asked, "Why is Vaheguru quiet?... Vaheguru doesn't seem to respond to me?"

Interesting to have Gursikhs thoughts and reflections.

Daas contemplated on Bhagat Baba Ravidaas jee Sahib's shabad in Dhanaasaree Raag:

ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ਰਮਈਆ ਕਾਰਨੇ ||
ਕਾਰਨ ਕਵਨ ਅਬੋਲ || ਰਹਾਉ ||
"I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to the Lord.
O Lord, why are You silent? ||Pause||"
(Ang 694)

I found that the two Shabads in Dhanaasaree Raag by Bhagat Jee after the above Shabad gives a hint in what should be done, but perhaps not why (perhaps we are not worthy to ask why but can ask "how" can I get Vaheguru to listen to me or speak to me).

ਚਿਤ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਉ ਨੈਨ ਅਵਿਲੋਕਨੋ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਬਾਨੀ ਸੁਜਸੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਾਖਉ ||
ਮਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਧੁਕਰੁ ਕਰਉ ਚਰਨ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਧਰਉ ਰਸਨ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਭਾਖਉ ||੧||
ਮੇਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਨਿ ਘਟੈ ||
ਮੈ ਤਉ ਮੋਲਿ ਮਹਗੀ ਲਈ ਜੀਅ ਸਟੈ ||੧|| ਰਹਾਉ ||
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਬਿਨਾ ਭਾਉ ਨਹੀ ਊਪਜੈ ਭਾਵ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਤੇਰੀ ||
ਕਹੈ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੁ ਇਕ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਪੈਜ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਮੇਰੀ ||੨||੨||
"(For this reason my prayer is that) in my consciousness may I remember You in meditation; with my eyes may I behold You; may I fill my ears with the Word of Your Bani, and Your Beautiful Praise.
Continue to keep your mind a bumble bee; I enshrine His feet within your heart, and with your tongue, chant the Amrit Naam (the spiritual life-giving Name of the Vaheguru). ||1||
(I am always scared that) my love for the Lord of the Universe does not decrease.
I paid for it dearly, in exchange for my soul (I obtained this love). ||1||Pause||
(But) without the Saadh Sangat (the Company of the Holy) love for the Lord does not well up; without this love, Your devotional worship cannot be performed.
Ravi Daas offers this one prayer unto the Lord: (I have come to Your Sanctuary,) please preserve and protect my honor, O Lord, my King. ||2||2||"
(Ang 694)


ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਮਜਨੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥
ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਝੂਠੇ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਸਨੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਉਰਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੇਸਰੋ ਲੇ ਛਿਟਕਾਰੇ ॥
ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਭੁਲਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਚੰਦਨੋ ਘਸਿ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਉ ਚਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਦੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਬਾਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤੇਲੁ ਲੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਸਾਰੇ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ ਭਇਓ ਉਜਿਆਰੋ ਭਵਨ ਸਗਲਾਰੇ ॥੨॥
ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤਾਗਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਫੂਲ ਮਾਲਾ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਗਲ ਜੂਠਾਰੇ ॥
ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਚਵਰ ਢੋਲਾਰੇ ॥੩॥
ਦਸ ਅਠਾ ਅਠਸਠੇ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਇਹੈ ਵਰਤਣਿ ਹੈ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ॥
ਕਹੈ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥੪॥੩॥
"(Ignorant people do worship of you before idolism, but for me) Your Name, Lord, is my adoration and cleansing bath.
Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are useless. ||1||Pause||
Your Name is my prayer mat, and Your Name is the stone to grind the sandalwood. Your Name is the saffron which I take and sprinkle in offering to You.
Your Name is the water, and Your Name is the sandalwood. The chanting of Your Name is the grinding of the sandalwood. I take it and offer all this to You. ||1||
Your Name is the lamp, and Your Name is the wick. Your Name is the oil I pour into it.
Your Name is the light applied to this lamp, which enlightens and illuminates the entire world. ||2||
Your Name is the thread, and Your Name is the garland of flowers. The eighteen loads of vegetation are all too impure to offer to You.
Why should I offer to You, that which You Yourself created? Your Name is the fan, which I wave over You. ||3||
The whole world is engrossed in the eighteen Puraanas, the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and the four sources of creation.
Says Ravi Daas, Your Name is my Aartee, my lamp-lit worship-service. The True Name, Sat Naam, is the food which I offer to You. ||4||3||"
(Ang 694)

The Pankiti that comes to mind when we hear about non-Amritdharis doing a lot of Simran and Sadhna is;

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਰੋਗਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮਹਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥

Guru Sahib clearly mentions in the above Pankiti that Manmukhs do Bhagti without Satguru (i.e. without adopting Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee as their Guru) but without the Satguru, Bhagti is not possible. Such people incur more Haume and die and take birth again and again.

Vaheguru can only be attained through Satguru because he has kept himself in Satguru (there is only one Satguru). So if one does not adopt Satguru as their Guru, then why wouldn't Vaheguru be quiet and why wouldn't He ignore them?

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib Ji,

The person in question is actually a Radho Soami. I must a very dedicated Radha Soami. He questions the word "Satguru" and seems convinced Satguru has to be a living being who is in a human body. He also frequently asks about "Panch Shabad" mentioned in Anand Sahib and believes that Naam is any name of God. I don't argue with the person, and they with attention and respect listen to the Gurmat Vichaar during class.

Vaheguru is not quiet. ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਹਮਰਾ ਸਦ ਬੋਲੰਤਾ ॥ (1160)

One must learn to speak His language to communicate. Since I do not know what that person is asking for and what he wants, I cannot make any other comment. All I can say is he doesn't deserve it yet.

ਮਾਨੁਖ ਕੀ ਟੇਕ ਬ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਸਭ ਜਾਨੁ ॥ (281) --> Maybe this is the reason.

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The person in question is actually a Radho Soami. I must a very dedicated Radha Soami. He questions the word "Satguru" and seems convinced Satguru has to be a living being who is in a human body. He also frequently asks about "Panch Shabad" mentioned in Anand Sahib and believes that Naam is any name of God. I don't argue with the person, and they with attention and respect listen to the Gurmat Vichaar during class.

You have to be careful when dealing with people who belong to this cult. Trust me Radha swamis have a very bitter attitude towards Amritdhari Gursikhs. If you speak to them with a passive voice they will try to walk all over you and confuse you. I remember sometime ago I was sitting in the University library and a tall Indian man studying to become a doctor approached me. First he started talking all friendly, and then he started to talk about religion and started criticizing the purpose of keeping rehat. I know how much these Radha Swamis hate Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji so I purposely kept mentioning Sri Guru Jis name in our conversation about rehat. Eventually he got so annoyed he said " Why do you keep saying his name! " I responded "because his name is so sweet too me!". He then responded with a sarcastic tone and said "arent the names of the others Gurus sweet as well?l". I said there is only one Guru and there is no difference between Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Sri Guru Gobind SIngh JI. He then started claiming Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim because only Muslims are allowed entrance into Mecca. I told him Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji is no ordinary mortal. He did not walk into Mecca like normal pilgrims nor did he follow the blind rituals of these pilgrims. If he was an ordinary Muslim pilgrim then how and why would he turn the Kabba around? He had not response this man was just a fanatical Radha Swami trying to cause confusion. This is what these people are known for.

Some years ago I lived with a granthi who came from a very religious family. The granthi mentioned his mother was extremely religious and had lots of faith in Gurmat. One day a Radha Swami came to their house and started talking rubbish about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Saying bowing to Sri Guru Ji is like idol worship, and they needed a true human Guru. The Mata Ji took off her sandals and said if you dont leave my house rite now you are going to get a serious beat down ( haha). The coward then ran for his life. Everyone in the village knew his treachery . He use to go around trying to get people away from Sikhi.

My cousin was telling me that before 1984 these type of cults such as the Nirankaris and Radha Swamis were known to go around talking bad about Satguru Ji and trying to keep the masses away from Sikhi. He told me that the Radha Swamis and Nirankaris had an alliance with Gandhi and they tried to wipe out Sikhi in Punjab. During this time many of the government workers were Radha Swami followers.

When I first started keeping a kes a Radham Swami related to my brother in law started asking me if I was going to take Amrit. I said I hope too someday. He then started saying are you going to wear a knife ( kirpan) I said if I take Amrit then I will wear a kirpan. He then said what about when you go on a plane. I said I will worry about that when the time comes. He tried to make it like Sikhi was an impractical dharama. He then started asking me what good is a knife in an age of rockets, and missiles ? I said SIkhs dont shy from using multiple weapons, but if some victim is getting harrassed in the streets then what good is a rocket? He kept going on and on until my brother in law told him to keep quiet.

Some time ago I was staying in Canada, and a Radha Swami follower started talking to me about Sikhi. He started questioning the practices such as Amrit, keeping kes, wearing panj kakkars, getting up for Amrit Vela etc. He said " isnt religion all about love and dont all paths lead to God". He use to talk to me for hours about spiritual philosophy with the intention of trying to cause doubts in my mind. If you are not vigilant with these people they will try to walk all over you and portray Sikhi in a negative light.

Manvir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A non-Amritdhari who does a lot of Simran and
> Saadhna asked, "Why is Vaheguru quiet?... Vaheguru
> doesn't seem to respond to me?"
>

This is a great lie - ask the person who is telling you he is quiet?
who is telling you when you eat u you are full or still need eat more?

who is telling you to look ? are you we supposed to look for action when we do naam simran or Gurbani - i used to in my past think yes we should - however when a Gursikh advised me that looking for something when doing naam and Gurbani is like looking at your earned money per hour while you are working as doctor? we work weekly do we check or bank balance every single day ? someone in love can never asking the lover " do you really love me? " can he or she??

All we are to do is like the nike advert - just DO it . Dont look for anything as you find zilch - " suniaaa lagee sahej dhyiaan"

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"Why is Vaheguru quiet?"

Wow ! Then who give us Hukamnama everyday ??

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Naam Simran; is not so simple a technique. It has multiple dimensions and intensely deeper meanings. For Gursikhs, it is the only way, to be a true sikh, on the right path. For others, it is a ritual, generally speaking. Rituals are never welcome in KHALSA way of life.

Those who are doing it as a ritual; it is and will always be a complicated subject. For non Amritdharies; it is a tough job. As Veer Kulbir Singh Ji says, without the active support of true GURU, there is little chance, of getting RAS in it.

I personally feel that it is better to be a simple man of simple human feelings, than toil to get envolved in dry religious rituals; where you can not see the active support of AKAL PURAKH.

Without the true GURU, all is futile. Blessed are the ones, who meet the true GURU and get NAAM DAAN,as a gift from HIM.

If someone says to you, Waheguru is quiet; it is his personal experience. It is his honest confession, if he speaks his mind. I will suggest him, to stop doing the simran and sit with his children or wife; to get in touch with some meaning life. You should feel pity about him.

As Sukhdeep Singh Veer Ji says about Radha Soami sect, he is right in a broader sense. Recently, I have developed a different feeling about them. Thousands of Indian people, not belonging to Punjab and not related to Gurmat in any way, are getting chance to read GURBANI, through this sect. I hope, if there is any pie of honest urge in them, for TRUE GURU; they may ultimately end up, meeting the TRUE GURU, may be now or in next life.

Manvir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhai Sahib Ji,
>
> The person in question is actually a Radho Soami.
> I must a very dedicated Radha Soami. He questions
> the word "Satguru" and seems convinced Satguru has
> to be a living being who is in a human body. He
> also frequently asks about "Panch Shabad"
> mentioned in Anand Sahib and believes that Naam is
> any name of God. I don't argue with the person,
> and they with attention and respect listen to the
> Gurmat Vichaar during class.

Satguru=Sat+Guru

Sat=Always true means never dying
Always true and never dying guru is Guru Granth Sahib only."Bani Guru Guru hai bani" from day one.

If there guru is SatGuru how come they keeps dying.

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As Sukhdeep Singh Veer Ji says about Radha Soami sect, he is right in a broader sense. Recently, I have developed a different feeling about them. Thousands of Indian people, not belonging to Punjab and not related to Gurmat in any way, are getting chance to read GURBANI, through this sect. I hope, if there is any pie of honest urge in them, for TRUE GURU; they may ultimately end up, meeting the TRUE GURU, may be now or in next life.

Veer Ji many years ago one of my clean shaven friends started getting involved with this Radha Swami cult. My friend was from a Sikh background but like me he didn't know much about Sikhi. Even though I didn't understand much about Sikhi at a young age I was fortunate to learn my AmritDhari Nana Ji that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave gurgaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a final Guru and any other person claiming to be Guru Ji is a pakhandi.

When I asked my friend why he is getting involved in this cult who have no respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji he started telling me that the center (dera) has Granth Sahib ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ) present and Sant Ji ( Pakhandi Guru) teaches from the Granth. I asked him does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji sit in a holy takht and does someone do chaur sahib, also where does sangat sit and where does " sant ji " sit. He told me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has no takht nor is there a chaur sahib sevadar. He then explained to me the so called "sant" sits on a higher seat while sangat sit on the floor. I later found out they use Gurbani to misguide people and they interpret words such as Satguru to refer to this pakhandi baba. These people are not bringing people closer to Gurbani they are bringing people closer to fake saints who prey on uneducated people who are fond on being spiritualist ( Self proclaimed Brahmgianis) . They mess up people heads and their minds and most of all their ATMA!

Bhai Sahib Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji mentions these radhaswamis people place their fingers in a posture and have them listen closely to the "panch shabad" which they call five sounds. Bhai Sahib says these sounds of nature are just imagination (illusions ) of their mind and this is part of yogamat.. The mind can imagine anything if it wants to . Once a clean shaven radha swami told me he has listened to anhad shabad I asked him what it sounds like and he said bells and thunder lightning lol. I can go to the 99 cent store and buy a bell. What is so good or great about listening to a bell? These are illusions of the mind. If one can listen to anhad shabad just by simply listening and imagining then what is need of taking Amrit from Panj Pyaare? This religion is for lazy people who don't want to do any naam kamaee its no wonder why it has become popular among the lazy Punjabi people. This cult is a dangerous cult associating with them is no different then associating with Ram Rai, Masands, Dhir mal of the past. We know some Amrit Dhari Gursikhs who got involved with some Radha Swamis and they lost a lot of kirpa by doing so. It never pleases Sri Guru Ji to have close relations with such fanatics. We can only hope Gursikhs stay vigilant or clear from such dangerous maggots.

Thank you Veer Sukhdeep Singh, for clearing the truth about this and other such cults. There should be no misconception about them, to the readers. As you say, uneducated and lazy people follow them, I add that they are unlucky too.

It is unfortunate that most peoples' understanding of 'religion' has been coloured by the simplistic Abrahamic climate that we live in. We have been thought to think of a God living up in the sky, who we either anger or make happy and as a resulted we are rewarded or punished. It is this mindset which gives birth to such a form of questioning.

I will digress a moment to set the right context. Its not a case of a simple answer but a whole change in mindset is needed.
The gyaan provided to us by Guroo Sahib is much higher. As a result of this gyaan, many questions that those with an Abrahmic mindset have become totally irrelevent. For example, it is not uncommon to hear common people asking, "why doesn't God show himself to us?", whereas with Gurmat we have the understanding that he very purpose of our life is to make our own selves worthy of his darshan! We don't even possess the right eyes to see Vaheguroo, how can we demand his darshan? The gyaan given to us by Guroo Sahib is to go on a journey of spiritual self improvement so that we can give ourselves the capacity to see Vaheguroo.

Now, if we are not hearing Vaheguroo, it simply means that we have much too much imperfection within ourselves to hear him. Vaheguroo is all around, it is our own eyes and ears that are closed. The more we follow Gurmat, the more we can see and hear what was already there in the first place.

A Gurmukh once said to me, only those padaraths with the same GuNs can have mel (unity).
Therefore, to experience vaheguroo (and the only way to do this in via oneness with him) our guNs must become indentical to his. To ask to hear Vaheguroo is a very big ask for such small insects as ourselves.

Bhull chuk maaf

Bhai Manvir Singh Jio,

Share with this person an informative article written by Subaydaar Bhai Dharam Singh Jee Sujjon, which talks about why there is need of SatGuru and not human form of a Guru. His entire book 'Gurbani Atay Science di Roshni Vich AkaalPurakh' is informative. English version is available too in U.K.

Aside from that if time allowed Daas will share interesting after death experience of a strict Radhasoaami who became Sikh after this incident. His experience exposes this fake cult without any doubt.