Question asked about Gurmat's view on Holocausts and Genocide...

I have been asked by someone about Gurmat's view on holocausts and genocides. I would appreciate if Gursikhs could share their thoughts and Gurbani reflections please.

In particular the question posed was this:

"During 1984 November anti-Sikh genocide, thousands of Sikh men, women and children were brutally killed. These people must have cried out to Vaheguru for help. They must have been sitting and praying to be protected but they Vaheguru allowed for them to be savagedly killed. Whey were their prayers not heard by Vaheguru?"



Thanks in advance.

Manvir Singh

Im no advanced gursikh or anything but I feel that it is all guru sahibs bhana...

Tera kiya mita lagai. har naam padaarath nanak maangai

If you look at our history.. many singhs and singhni got shaheedee in the most brutalest of ways

And guru sahib himself says.. soora so pechaniyai jo larae deen kae hath.. purja purja khat marai kabhoo na chadai keth

So in reality. 1984 in itself was a real tangible battlefield in which people were fighting to not succumb to the brutal forces of the indian government that wanted to convert all of them into hindus..

in our ardasaa we always remember jine singhna singhniyaa nae dharaam heth sees ditai band band kataye kopriya luhayeeha charkariya de chare....

jine singhniya ne manu de jela vich khane khane te guzaraa kitha.

So sacrifices have always been apart of sikhee.. Sikhs have always been giving their blood to keep guru sahibs pyaaree pyaaree sikhee going... and to have us come the way we are

There is no why didn't vaheguru here the prayer.. there is that they japed naam.. accepting guru sahibs bhana with whole heartedness. therefore we should try to surrender to vaheguru like them.. and remember that after taking khande bate da amrit... our bodies.. our heads.. are not our own..
they are that of guru sahibs..

Than man tera dhan be tera..


So in reality this is not of vaheguru not hearing the prayer.. it is a matter of basic sikhi sidhaanth


Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

Manvir Singh Ji,

Please read post by Bhai Bijla Singh here

I just wanted to add in a passionate burst at the questions posed

Why do we sing shabads of bairaag and longing for guru sahib.. are we truly dying without guru sahib.. or are we not bearing the most pain that we can possibly bare for guru sahib.. 1984 was example of a sacrifice that singhs and singhniyaa had to give for their gursikhee.. for the price of wearing a dastaar on their head.....do we truly love guru sahib enough to endure any possible torture put towards our way.. are we willing to get our legs ripped apart like the singhnis in operation shudi karan.. Are we able to become humiliate degraded like the singhs go to prison for... are we willing to fight until the very end.. and until the very end swaasswaasgurrrooooooooguroooooo is going...until our very last breaths of torture.. guruooo gurooo is going... can we go until that extent.. ????

When people ask such questions... it makes me wonder.. have you truly given your head to guru sahib.... manmat.. is not following guru sahibs hukams despite the fact that tere is no 1984 going on where most of us are...

So there is no question of vaheguru's fault.. because remember HE IS PERFECT! WE ARE IMPERFECT CREATURES!

so what I am trying to say... is tht can we still have 13 bullets in our bodies like bhai fauja singh jee. and still be doing swaas swaas gurrroooo

Can we love our singhs and singhniyaa that we are willing to give our lives to protect our own... are we willing to give that much pyaar .. our we willing to cover bhai fauja singh's body like bhai kewal singh jee did...

How much pyaar do we have for guru sahib? How much are we willing to go through.. can we become tortured... like singhs and singhniyaa did...

So...there is no question..of whether vaheguru was listening or not.. its a question of whether you were loving guru sahib or were you crying out and asking whY?

We become pained listening to those stories.. I have been there done that... Shed tears over my beautiful shaheed singhs and singhniyaa...

And then I realized... there is no point in being sad... the only thing we can do.. is take inspiration from them. and try to become like them in person and being... and always be in chardikala.. and always be reciting naam swaas swaas......

And the only thing we can do is smile and laugh in the face of suffering

the only thing we can do is keep on going no matter what...

And that we should never ever let the sacrifices of the shaheed singhs and singhniyaa go waste... always remember your ancestors... and always fight... purja purja khat marai kabhoo na chadai keth.....

and always always always keep rehit.. because all those shaheed singhs and singhniyaa would not be able to tolerate all of that pain without rehit... rehit is so important... in life.. I never realized this until like i started keeping bibek...will become sarablohee very very very soon..


Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

Very very wise advise from someone so young..you truly have His jot within you ji for being so steadfast in your rehit...and indirectly Waheguru has answered my ardas..dhan Waheguru, and Singhni!

Here is another discussion that took place recently: [www.sikhsangat.com]

I remember once Giani Kulwinder Singh Ji answering a similar question about atrocities against Sikhs, and Giani ji reminding that it is Sikhs who are front line army, we have volunteered to take the blows! What I understood from this is that by virtue of remaining as Sikhs/choosing to be Sikhs, we have already indicated our willingness to be the very first to bear atrocities.

Quote
Manvir Singh
"During 1984 November anti-Sikh genocide, thousands of Sikh men, women and children were brutally killed. These people must have cried out to Vaheguru for help. They must have been sitting and praying to be protected but they Vaheguru allowed for them to be savagedly killed. Whey were their prayers not heard by Vaheguru?"

That is Incorrect.

I remember to have read a post of true incident on this forum. I am not able to trace the link but here is the snapshot of the incident.

There used to live 1 (one) Sikh family in a Haryana village. The fire of 1984 reached this village too. Their house came under attack. The husband ran away from the house to save his life. But the wife stayed back in the house because there was prakash of Guru Sahib in the home. She had belief that Guru Sahib will protect her. After few days/months the husband returned to find out what might have happened to his family which he had left behind. On seeing Sikh husband the villagers quickly gathered round him and asked as to how he was able to collect so many Singhs in Blue Bana in very short time that night when his house was under attack. The Sikh husband's face was drenched in shameful tears and came to know that Guru Sahib and Saheed Singhs are always Ang-Sang of true Gursikhs. That night the Shaeed Singha Di Fauj was standing behind his wife and the mob of attackers had immediately ran away. The attackers not even dared to take one step toward the house.

Hope, that answers your question.

It is the feelings & belief in the prayers that gets answered and not the prayers.

---

We should also face this bitter truth that out of 5000 to 10,000 who got killed in this genocide, how many of them were Shastardhari Amritdhari Gursikh ????

Had, even the 50% of them been Amritdhari then same number of attacker's dead bodies also would have been found alongside.

This is a plain Math. Out of 10,000 killed, if there would have been 5000 Amritdhari then those Amritdhari for sure would have blown (on a minimum) 5000 attackers too in One to One combat.

But how many attackers got killed in this genocide process. I guess the answer is Zero. From this we can infer the percentage of how many would have been Amridhari !

It is a hard time that Panth should understand that running away from Sikhi, running away from Hukam of Guru Sahib and running away from Rehit will bring a Big ZERO to their Jeevan.

Specially, the Delhi folks have Not learnt anything from 1984. They are still engrossed in Pomp & Show far from any Rehit-Reni. They have the bucks to buy Hummer, BMW & Audi but they cannot refrain from bargaining in Taksali shop for Kirpan. There they wish to save every Rs.100 they could. They are not ready to shell out that extra Rs.100 for good Shastar that could save their life.

Mr. Modi is on a run to PM post in 2014 election after that what happens who knows. Lot of inconsistency are already floating. My message to Amridhari Sikh Youths living in India - Carry the good quality Shastar of same price tag as of your Smartphone because Shastar can save your life but your smartphone cannot.

Sorry for going little off-topic.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I heard the exact story as Jaskirat Singh jee has mentioned above and beleive it 100%

During 1984 November anti-Sikh genocide, thousands of Sikh men, women and children were brutally killed. These people must have cried out to Vaheguru for help. They must have been sitting and praying to be protected but they Vaheguru allowed for them to be savagedly killed. Whey were their prayers not heard by Vaheguru?"


simple answer:

Who are we mere insects of this earth to know of Vaheguru's ways and what's in his mind for who?? " Ant na japaa keaaa man munt! excuse spelling mistakes.

Thank you for the all vichaar so far.

Just to clarify the question that I was asked in the Sikhi class...

1. "Where had God gone in the holocaust/genocide? There were people crying out for God. Where was God?"

2. Why did God save some but not others in the holocaust/genocide?

3. What possible justification could there be for a Sikh woman to be gang-raped and a child mercilessly killed while the mother screams to God for help?

The approach to understand this topic is wrong. Nonetheless, here is my take on it based on my limited understanding.

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"Where had God gone in the holocaust/genocide? There were people crying out for God. Where was God?"

God is everywhere. There is no restriction on Him to exercise His power when someone asks for help.

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Why did God save some but not others in the holocaust/genocide?

This is wrong. God loves everyone equally. The question presupposes that God intentionally saved some and let others die. This type of discrimination by God is impossible. According to Jaap Sahib He is Abhed which means He is free from “bhed bhaav” or discriminating between human beings.

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What possible justification could there be for a Sikh woman to be gang-raped and a child mercilessly killed while the mother screams to God for help?

Killing, looting, destruction etc. have no justification in this situation. Rape cannot be justified in any situation.

Holocausts have happened before and Sikhs had about 7 holocausts in 18th century alone. There are multiple reasons for this. Sikhs did not have their own independent State. The ruling government saw Sikhs as a growing threat to the Empire. The war between truth and falsehood has always existed. This is not to say that these reasons justify holocausts but the major difference between 18th century and 1984 is that the Sikhs in 18th century were true Sikhs. They endured all the pain yet remained in shukrana of Vaheguru. When holocausts happened, there is not a single instance where they sat around unprepared and prayed to God for help. They knew fully well from Gurbani that just as Lodhis got destroyed by Babar for being unprepared, they too will be destroyed if they don’t keep themselves always prepared. After the biggest holocaust in 18th century, Sikhs were able to take over Punjab within 3 years. So 1984 still would’ve happened but the amount of destruction would probably have been less had Sikhs been practicing Gurmat ideals and Panth would’ve recovered faster. When Lodhis forsook their responsibilities, both their rule as well as the people suffered. Sikhs ignored the teachings of Guru Sahib and suffered.

I have spoken to some naam abhiyasi gursikhs about this and their opinion was that the amount of Naam kamayee in Panth was far less than needed in 1984 and the majority had intermingled with Hindus to the extent of losing their own identity and 1984 came as a rude shock which awakened their inner spirits. I know some families who have testified to this. This is why the amount of destruction was significant. Had naam kamayee been more, the recovery would’ve been faster and Panth would’ve progressed faster. Same thing happened in 1849 when Sikhs lost their kingdom and it took some decades for the Panth to recover.

In 18th century, Sikhs faced their extinction but not a single time did they ever complain to God. They always prayed for strength but they also kept themselves dedicated to the true way of life. They were fearless warriors ready to die for the true cause. I have read somewhere that at one time only 2000 Sikhs had been left in 18th century. And this is the only time I know the panth did ardaas to be saved but their objective was different. Their ardaas was to save the Panth so that the teachings of Gurbani could be propagated and spread in the world. “Tera Panth Na Raha To Granth Kaun Manego”. Their ardaas was not a cry to be saved from death but an inner desire to let Sikhi flourish. The result was that Nadir Shah invaded India and the Mughals turned their attention away from the Sikhs. After that they continued to grow more and stronger. This was the same objective of Panj Pyaras to request Guru Sahib to vacate the mud fort of Chamkaur. In November 1984, we find no such example. Very few Sikhs fought against the hoodlums and either died fighting or managed to save themselves.

Doing ardaas to be saved from physical death is not part of Gurmat at all. Guru Sahib taught us to always be tyar bar tyar and Sikhs suffered utmost humiliation for forsaking this principle. Gurbani teaches us to be ready to embrace death (I know easier said than done). Guru Sahib taught and demonstrated to us to boldly face death rather than run away from it. Did Bhai Anokh Singh pray to be saved from jail? Did Sukha Jinda pray to be saved from death sentence? Sikhs these days including myself are weak and not properly following Gurmat. Hence, we continue to suffer.

This is not to say 1984 was our fault but my whole point is that people suffer the most when they are unprepared. Enemies and other governments will continue to attack us but it all comes down to how much we are prepared to fight back. What kills us the most is not the attack of the enemy but our own silence and unpreparedness. Sikhs in Delhi sat around like nothing was going to happen. Why did they not prepare themselves after witnessing June 1984? Why haven’t they (and all of us) not prepared after seeing two decades of genocide? Then to blame God for not listening to our prayers is hypocritical at best. God listens, He always does but don’t blame Him if you are not prepared at all. Should we blame God for failing a test for which we never studied? He gave us divine principles in Gurbani for our own good which we choose not to follow and then we blame Him for not listening. We need to understand true concept of Ardaas in Gurmat before we ask such questions. If we follow Gurbani, create our own State then see if any holocaust like 1984 ever happens. Guru Rakha