Sucham

What answer should we give for those that use the following Shabads against the concept of Sucham as part of Bibeki Pehra.



ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ ॥
The mother is impure, and the father is impure. The fruit they produce is impure.
ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥
Impure they come, and impure they go. The unfortunate ones die in impurity. ||1||
ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ ॥
Tell me, O Pandit, O religious scholar, which place is uncontaminated?
ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Where should I sit to eat my meal? ||1||Pause||
ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ ॥
The tongue is impure, and its speech is impure. The eyes and ears are totally impure.
ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥
The impurity of the sexual organs does not depart; the Brahmin is burnt by the fire. ||2||
ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥ The fire is impure, and the water is impure. The place where you sit and cook is impure.
ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
Impure is the ladle which serves the food. Impure is the one who sits down to eat it. ||3||
ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥ Impure is the cow dung, and impure is the kitchen square. Impure are the lines that mark it off.
ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥
Says Kabeer, they alone are pure, who have obtained pure understanding. ||4||1||7||


As well as these Shabads from Asa Dee Vaar:
What is different between Gurmat concept of Jooth and Sootak? These Shabads have always been used by those against Bibek and Sucham, I think Veechar should be done on these Shabads and any other Shabads that deal with Jooth, Sucham, etc so those that are being mislead against Bibek and Sucham not being a Gurmat Principle can read this and clear their mind of any doubts.

ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥
The man-eaters say their prayers.
ਛੁਰੀ ਵਗਾਇਨਿ ਤਿਨ ਗਲਿ ਤਾਗ ॥
Those who wield the knife wear the sacred thread around their necks.
ਤਿਨ ਘਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਨਾਦ ॥
In their homes, the Brahmins sound the conch.
ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਓਈ ਸਾਦ ॥
They too have the same taste.
ਕੂੜੀ ਰਾਸਿ ਕੂੜਾ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥
False is their capital, and false is their trade.
ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥
Speaking falsehood, they take their food.
ਸਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਕਾ ਡੇਰਾ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
The home of modesty and Dharma is far from them.
ਨਾਨਕ ਕੂੜੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
O Nanak, they are totally permeated with falsehood.
ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੇੜਿ ਧੋਤੀ ਕਖਾਈ ॥
The sacred marks are on their foreheads, and the saffron loin-cloths are around their waists;
ਹਥਿ ਛੁਰੀ ਜਗਤ ਕਾਸਾਈ ॥
in their hands they hold the knives - they are the butchers of the world!


ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere.
ਗੋਹੇ ਅਤੈ ਲਕੜੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀੜਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
In cow-dung and wood there are worms.
ਜੇਤੇ ਦਾਣੇ ਅੰਨ ਕੇ ਜੀਆ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life.
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green.
ਸੂਤਕੁ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਪਵੈ ਰਸੋਇ ॥
How can it be protected from impurity? It touches our own kitchen.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਏਵ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਉਤਾਰੇ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, impurity cannot be removed in this way; it is washed away only by spiritual wisdom. ||1||

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥

A lot of time people quote these Shabads that you have mentioned in their attempt to put down Sucham as just brahminvaad. The ironic thing is though that these Shabads are actually in favor of Bibek and Sucham.

In this first Shabad Bhagat Kabeer jee is telling the Pandit that he is hankaari about his supposed Sucham but he is just a hypocrite because he is born from jooth. Bhagat jee is saying that everything is jootha and those that keep supposed Sucham are just fools because they themselves are joothay. When we get to the last Pankti then everything becomes clear. Bhagat jee is saying that those who have ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ are the only ones who can be ਸੂਚੇ.

Sachee Bichaaraa is Naam Gurmantar, so Bhagat jee is saying that only those who have Naam are Suchay. And only Sucham done by these Naam imbued Gursikhs can be true Sucham. That is why we as Bibeki's do not eat from those who do not have Naam, because no matter how much "Sucham" they may try to keep, everything they touch is still jootha. Bhagat jee is saying to the Pandit that even though he may be doing Sucham, nothing actually becomes Sucha unless he accepts Guru Sahib and gets Gurmat Naam.

Preetam Singh

ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ ॥
ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥
ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ ॥
ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ ॥
ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥
ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥
ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥
ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥

The above Shabad is actually very much in favour of Gurmat Bibek and also highlights difference between Gurmat Sucham and Brahmanvaadi Sucham. The Brahmans were devoid of Gurmat Naam and thereby also devoid of Gurmat Bhagti and considered Sucham based on birth. If someone is born in a high caste, he is considered to be pure and those born in lower caste are considered impure. Gurmat on the other hands gives no importance to one's caste or birth family but rather cares if one's deeds are in accordance to Gurmat or not.

In the above Shabad, Guru Sahib is saying that all other causes of Jooth or Sucham are false and everything and everyone is Jootha unless one gets ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ i.e. one gets true Naam roopi and Gurmat roopi Vichaar. Till one adopts true Saachi Gurmat Vichaar by becoming a Sikh at the Duaar of the True Guru, one stays impure. Everyone including Mata, Pita, tongue and other organs of the body, kitchen and cooks who cook food are impure unless they get ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ as per the last Pankiti.

This Shabad basically tells a Brahman that his way of Sucham is wrong and that only then one becomes Soocha, when one gets Saachi Bichaara i.e. one adopts Gurmat. So this Shabad is clearly in favour of Gurmat Aahaar Bibek (food Bibek).

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What is different between Gurmat concept of Jooth and Sootak? These Shabads have always been used by those against Bibek and Sucham, I think Veechar should be done on these Shabads and any other Shabads that deal with Jooth, Sucham, etc so those that are being mislead against Bibek and Sucham not being a Gurmat Principle can read this and clear their mind of any doubt

Gurmat Jooth applies to all Karma of a Nigura person i.e. a person who has not yet adopted Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee as his Guru by taking Khande Pahul whereas Sootak is a special type of Jooth as per the Brahmanical system, whereby a woman is considered to be impure or Joothi for 40 days after giving birth to a child. Gurmat has rejected this type of Jooth and Gurmukh Bibiyaan who are Tyaar bar Tyaar in Gurmat Rehit are impure neither during their menstrual cycle nor after giving birth to a child.

The theory behind Hindu Sootak is that a woman needs rest after childbirth and in order to ensure that she gets rest, ancient Hindu sages came up with the theory of Sootak and over the time this practice started getting used to negate women. In any case, this is the explanation that's given by some Hindu scholars. Whatever the cause or reason for Sootak or Paatak, it has been rejected by Gurmat.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh

Dhanvaad for the replies. More Parchar and veechar should be done on Sucham aspect of Bibek. I feel that many people know about Bibek however when they are told about Sucham they don't know anything about it and automatically they think of it as being Brahmanvaad, but it is true, everything is Jootha without Naam. And all actions are impure without Gurmat Naam.


So any more veechar on Sucham?

Soochay say-ee nanaka Jin man vasayah so-ee (pangti from shabad).