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Deep Veechar on ੴ

Posted by gsingh 
Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 14, 2013 10:03PM
Can deep veechar be done on ੴ in English. If this veechar exists please point me to that direction.

Dhanvaad.
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 16, 2013 03:49AM
Let me start by saying that the deepest Vyakhya Vichaar are done at "Aatmic" level which can be done by Brahmgyani Abhiyaasi Mahapurash alone.

The following "Vyakhya Vichaar" is mostly at the "Buddhi" level.

ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥



This is Part-1 of the discussion, where we will try to comprehend the Vichaar on "EK".
The Vichaar on "OANGKAAR" will be taken in Part-2.

Little Background - To get started with :
The OM mantar is "Tridha Roop". Tridha basically consist of Raajasi, Taamsi and Saantaki roops. In other words it is Rajo-Gunn, Tamo-Gunn and Sato-Gunn. So OM is created or derived from 3 alphabets. These are "AA", "OO" & "MA". These 3 alphabets gives rise to above 3 mentioned roops like this "AA" --> Aakaar, "OO" --> Ookaar, "MA" --> Makaar.

AA-Aakaar is Rajo-Gunni and this signifies Brahma.
OO-Ookaar is Sato-Gunni and this signifies Vishnu.
MA-Makaar is Tamo-Gunni and this signifies Mahesh.

If we look closely, the OM is talking of Creations and Not the Creator. The Nirgun Swaroop Akaal Purakh Waheguru Parmeshwar is missing in OM. Almighty Lord is creator of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh, but where is the creator Himself inside OM ?

OM does not have Vachak of Parmeshwar that is why Guru Sahib putted "KAAR" over the OM to make it "Oangkaar". This "KAAR" is Vachak of Parmeshwar and it signifies that Parmeshwar is on Top of 3 Devtas and everybody else. The "KAAR" means continuous or Lagataar. The Kaar putted over OM is infinite continuous line. Which means is Parmeshwar is Non-Stop or Continuous or Ek-Rass-Lagataar chalan wala Parmeshwar.


Part-1 : Vyakhaya Vichaar on "EK".



To understand the significances of EK, we shall try to find out the answers of following questions.
Q1. What does "EK" means in "EK OANGKAAR" ?
Q2. What is the significance of putting EK in front of "OANGKAAR" ?

Finding the answers to these 2 questions will help us in comprehending the "Vyakhya Vichaar" on "EK". We shall be employing 2 methods here to answer those 2 questions. So let's get started.

Method 1 : Nirgun Swaroop Akaal Purakh Waheguru Parmeshwar is independent of Sajaati, Vijaati and Svay-gat-bhed

Why Akaal Purakh Waheguru is "EK" ? There is nobody else like HIM that is why HE is "EK". This can be proven if we are able to prove that Waheguru is independent of Sajaati, Vijaati and Svay-gat-bhed. Let's understand what are these.

Sajaati - It's Padched is Sa-Jaati. "SA" means same. "Jaati" means race. So, "Sajaati" means a class or collective group of beings. For example Human Beings are Sajaati. In every different country there are Human Beings living. Even if we personally do not know each other but still we know that we all belong to one class of beings. We all share similar emotions like being sad, happy, crying, laughing etc... Hence, the whole race of human population is one Sajaati.

Is there anybody else living somewhere who is exactly like Akaal Purakh Waheguru ?
The answer is NO. Nobody else is like HIM. There is no Jaati (race) of Waheguru. Hence, the Sajaati definition does not apply to HIM.

Is there anybody else sitting in Gurdwara who is exactly like Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee ?
The answer is NO. There is no Jaati (race) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

In other words, is there any Sajaati of Waheguru ?
When there is nobody like Akaal Purakh Waheguru and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee then this proves HE is EK. There is NO two or more like HIM. HE is rehat of Sajaati, HE is EK.


Vijaati - It's padched is Vi-Jaati. "VI" means different. "Jaati" means race. So, "Vijaati" means differences within group of beings. Like group of Birds, Animals, Vegetations etc... The 84 Lakh Joons have Vijaati. Every Joon has its own Sajaati but 84 Lakh Joon has Vijaati meaning within each Joon the difference occur. For example Human beings in China, Africa, UK, USA etc... have different eyes, hair color, skin color etc... If mating occur between African and Chinese then the offspring may have rounded Negro hair with Chinese eyes. (Yes, I have seen one in Bay Area). So Vijaati occurs within Sajaati.

Is there any varieties of Waheguru ? Does a change occur in HIM ? In other words, does a Vijaati occur in Waheguru ?
The answer is NO. Waheguru does not comes in variety. There is NO Vijaati in HIM. This proves HE is EK.

"ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥". In all the times HE remains same. It cannot be said that earlier Waheguru was like that, then HE became like that and now HE is like this. Such thing cannot be said. It cannot be said that earlier Waheguru was child, then he became young, then old, then HE died and then HIS Son took over HIS throne and then HIS son became Waheguru. Such things cannot be said. No changes occur in HIM. HE is rehat of Vijaati, HE is EK.


Svay-gat-bhed - Svay means Self. Gat-Bhed means knowing on its own. So, Svay-gat-bhed means to be self-revealed. For example when we sow seed, then from within the seed comes out root, branches, leaves, fruits, flowers etc... This is called Svay-gat-bhed hona.

Does the activity of Svay-gat-bhed take place within Nirgun Swaroop of Waheguru ?
The answer is NO. Nothing comes out or grows within the Nirgun Swaroop of Waheguru. For example from Human embryo comes out Legs, Hands, Fingers, Eyes, Nose, Ears etc... But nothing grows out from Nirgun Swaroop of Waheguru.

ਚੱਕ੍ਰ ਚਿਹਨ ਅਰੁ ਬਰਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਪਾਤਿ ਨਹਿਨ ਜਿਹ ॥ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਰੇਖ ਭੇਖ ਕੋਊ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਿਹ ॥
ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਤਿ ਸੁ ਜਾਨਈ ਕਿਹ ਜੇਬ ॥
ਅੰਹ ਹੀਨ ਅਭੰਗ ਅਨਾਤਮ ਏਕ ਪੁਰਖ ਅਪਾਰ ॥


HE does not have eyes but still HE sees. HE does not have ears but still HE listens. HE is rehat of Svay-gat-bhed, HE is EK.

Conclusion : The Sajaati, Vijaati and Svay-Gat-Bhed are present in Sristi and Maya. But they are Not present in Nirgun Swaroop Akaal Purakh Waheguru Parmeshwar and that is why HE is EK.



Method 2 : Nirgun Swaroop Akaal Purakh Waheguru Parmeshwar is independent of Desh, Kaal and Vastu

Akaal Purakh Waheguru is "EK". There is nobody else like HIM that is why HE is "EK". This can be proven if we are able to prove that Waheguru is independent of Desh, Kaal and Vastu. Let's see what are these.

Desh - it means Country or Homeland or Native Place.

What is the Homeland or Native Place of Waheguru ?
HE does not have Homeland because why will HE need one when everything belongs to HIM. For example if we say HIS native place is India, then it means HE is not in UK, USA, Canada etc... Which is untrue and cannot be said because HE is Sarv-Vyapak. HE is everywhere.

ਕਿ ਸਰਬੱਤ੍ਰ ਦੇਸੈ ॥ ਕਿ ਸਰਬੱਤ੍ਰ ਭੇਸੈ ॥
ਜਲੇ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਥਲੇ ਹੈਂ ॥
ਜਤ੍ਰ ਤਤ੍ਰ ਦਿਸਾ ਵਿਸਾ ਹੁਇ ਫੈਲਿਓ ਅਨੁਰਾਗ ॥


HE is in every Desh (place).

HE cannot go from Place-A to Place-B because this would mean that HE was not present in Place-B that is why HE is going there. And this phenomena itself is not possible that HE cannot be at Place-A and Place-B simultaneously. Neither HE is going nor HE is coming. HE is all there everywhere everytime.

ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਸੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਭੇਸੇ ॥.

Waheguru is rehat of Loks and Puris. Devi/Devtas are restricted (in Mauj) within their Puris - Indrapuri, Devpuri, Shivpuri, Brahampuri etc... Some say Vishnu Jee stays in Ocean because He finds His Mauj there. Some say certain devta lives in East, west north south etc... accroding to their mauj. Waheguru is not restricted to these Puris, Loks and directions.

ਦਖਨ ਦੇਸਿ ਹਰੀ ਕਾ ਬਾਸਾ ਪਛਿਮਿ ਅਲਹ ਮੁਕਾਮਾ ॥
ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਦਿਲੈ ਦਿਲਿ ਖੋਜਹੁ ਏਹੀ ਠਉਰ ਮੁਕਾਮਾ ॥


Everybody else is restricted to certain zone. But only Waheguru is the ONE who has this ability of being Sarv-Vayapak. That is why HE is EK.

ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਏਕੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਸੋਈ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮਝਿਯਹੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥
ਨਮਸ਼ਕਾਰ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਹਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਸਕਲ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਜਿਨ ਆਪ ਸਵਾਰੀ ॥



Kaal - it means Time

Does time apply to Waheguru ?
We often say that child was born in morning, afternoon, evening, night etc... or we often say that old man died in morning, afternoon, evening, night. Every human being take birth and then die according to their time. But there is no time in Waheguru. HE is abhinaasi and rehat of Kaal.

"Tridha Roop" - brahma , vishnu and mahesh also comes under Kaal. Maya too is tied with time. Sun, moon, planets all are tied to time. Only, Waheguru is the Brahm to whom time does not apply because Brahm neither takes birth nor dies. Infact there is no concept of time there. It is Ek-Ras-Lagataar. It does not make sense to ask when does night occur on Sun. Similarly it does not make sense to associate time with Waheguru.

ਸੂਰਜੁ ਏਕੋ ਰੁਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ॥

HE is the only ONE to whom the Time does not apply. That is why HE is EK.


Vastu - it means Upadhi. For example when wind blows it creates the ripples in water. This is called Upadhi has came into being.

Does Upadhi apply to Waheguru ?
First lets understand the two forms - Jeev and Ishwar.
Ishwar is Not Waheguru Parmeshwar. It is called Ishwar only when Parmeshwar comes in conjuction with Maya. When Parmeshwar had desire to become many from one. This desire itself is called Maya. Then Maya further gave birth of Rajo-Gunn, Sato-Gunn and Tamo-Gunn. Parmeshwar working through Maya created Jeev.

The Jeev which has Sudh-Sato-Gunn + Maya + Satta (Jyot or Prabal Ansh) of Parmeshwar in it that Prabla Jeev is called Ishwar. That Ishwar then creates the Sristi.

The mixture of Rajo-Tamo-Sato Gunn in different ratio creates other Jeevs like Devtas, Human beings, Animals etc... 100% of Tamo Gunn brings Asur into being.

Here we are trying to understand the types of Upadhi that comes into Jeev and Ishwar. There is Vyasthi and Samasthi Upadhi that comes into play because of Maya.

Vyasthi Upadhi - For example there are independent trees out there. Some are of Mango, Guava, Apple, Orange etc... In single form it is Vyasthi roop.

Samasthi Upadhi - But collectively these fruit trees are called Orchard. In collective form it is Samasthi roop.

Vyasthi Upadhi further consist of 3 elements - Vijasav Jeev, Tejasav Jeev and Pragya Jeev.
Vijasav Jeev - The element inside Jeev that makes the Jeev aware of its Jaagrit Awastha (Wake Up scenario). The element which make Jeev abhimaani of its Jaagrit Awastha is called Vijasav. The walking, eating, drinking, talking etc... this is Jaagrit Awastha and Vijasav Jeev make us aware about these.

Tejasav Jeev - The element inside Jeev that makes the Jeev aware of its Swapan Awashtha (Sleeping scenario). The element which make Jeev abhimaani of its Swapan Awastha is called Tejasav. When we are awake we see with eyes but during sleep we still see in dreams. Tejasav Jeev make us aware about these seeing in dreams.

Pragya Jeev - The element inside Jeev that make the Jeev aware that while sleeping the Jeev did not see any dream at all. While sleeping so deeply when you are not even aware of your surroundings and you do not even remember having any dream then how come you came to know that you did not dream at all. The element which tells this is called Pragya Jeev. This is also called Sukhopat Awastha.

These 3 Vyasthi Upadhis are present inside Jeev because of Maya.

Now, similar 3 elements are present in Ishwar also and it is called Samasthi Upadhi.
Samasthi Updadhi consist of 3 elements called Viraat, Hiran-Garbh, Abhyakrit.

Viraat - Due to Maya the Upadhi that is Abhimaani of Jaagrit Awastha in the complete Brahmand is called the Viraat Roop of Ishwar (Not Parmeshwar). In this Viraat Roop the 7 Aakaash is considered as Head, 7 Paataal is considered as Legs, the population of Jeev who are breathing is called breaths of Viraat roop Ishwar, Sun & Moon are eyes, Vishnu is heart, Brahma and Shiv are 2 hands, the rivers on earth are veins of Viraat roop, mountains are bones, vegetations are its body hair, back facing is Paap and front facing is Punn. This is Viraat swaroop of Ishwar.

Hiran-Garbh - The meaning of Hiran is Prakaash. The element that is Abhimaani of Swapan Awastha of Ishwar is Hiran-Garbh.

Abhyakrit - The element which makes aware of Sukhopat Awastha of Ishwar is called Abhyakrit Upadhi.

Finally, we understand that 3 upadhis are in Jeevs and 3 upadhis are in Ishwar but out of these 6 upadhis none are present in Brahm i.e. Akaal Purakh Parmeshwar Waheguru.

The Jaagrit, Swapan and Sukhopat Awasthas are not present in Parmeshwar. Why ????
If we say Parmeshwar is in Jaagrit Awastha then it means that at some point Parmeshwar would go to sleep. Which is completely false. Such phenomena does not exist. Such statements of waking-up, sleeping, dreaming etc... does not apply to HIM. For HIM we can say that HE is Chetan-Brahm.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਦੇਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Conclusion : The Jaagrit, Swapan and Sukhopat Awasthas are present in Jeev and Ishwar. But Akaal Purakh Waheguru Parmeshwar is the only One in which these are not present and that is why HE is EK.



As per Hukam of Waheguru, the Part-2 Vyakhaya Vichaar on OANGKAAR will follow soon.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 16, 2013 10:21AM
Jaskirat ji, you have done excellent deep vichaar on Ik. I had hard time understanding the following statements.

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Ishwar is Not Waheguru Parmeshwar. It is called Ishwar only when Parmeshwar comes in conjuction with Maya. When Parmeshwar had desire to become many from one. This desire itself is called Maya. Then Maya further gave birth of Rajo-Gunn, Sato-Gunn and Tamo-Gunn. Parmeshwar working through Maya created Jeev.

The Jeev which has Sudh-Sato-Gunn + Maya + Satta (Jyot or Prabal Ansh) of Parmeshwar in it that Prabla Jeev is called Ishwar. That Ishwar then creates the Sristi.

Could you please provide any Gurbani proof to back this up? Also, please address the following questions if you can.

1) How is Vaheguru Ik-Rass if He becomes “many from one”? This cannot be continuous since “many” was not there to begin with and after the creation ceases, “many” will not be there anymore.
2) How could Vaheguru have a desire? Jaap Sahib states that He is “Nirkaam”.
3) If Vaheguru can create maya then surely He can create the rest of the world. So why does He need a partner (maya) to create the Srishti? Is maya required? If maya gave birth to gunns then maya has the creative power which means there is something in the world that was created by someone other than Vaheguru. This doesn’t make Vaheguru Nirsreek.
4) Are you classifying Ishwar and Parmeshwar as lower and higher Brahmn like in Indian philosophies especially Vedanta? Let’s assume it is true, then how is Vaheguru ik-rass? He is changing every time creation is created and destroyed.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. Guru Rakha
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 17, 2013 04:47AM
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Bijla Singh
Could you please provide any Gurbani proof to back this up?

ਏਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਬਿਆਪਕ ਪੂਰਕ ਜਤ ਦੇਖਉ ਤਤ ਸੋਈ ॥
ਮਾਇਆ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਮੋਹਿਤ ਬਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥
ਸੂਤੁ ਏਕੁ ਮਣਿ ਸਤ ਸਹੰਸ ਜੈਸੇ ਓਤਿ ਪੋਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


Bhai Sahib Jee, I am exploring more on this. But the above Bani from Bhagat Naamdev Jee reveals that the way Maya works (in creations/nature/everywhere or anywhere) is "Vichitra". Like beads are woven in thread in similar manner Akaal Purakh Parmeshwar Waheguru is woven in whole creation. But still HE is Nirlep in HIS whole creation.

ਬਾਬਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਰਚਨਾ ਧੋਹੁ ॥

Everything happens under Hukam of Akaal Purakh Parmeshwar Waheguru. How Maya after taking "Satta" from Parmeshwar works to create creations/sristi is all known to Akaal Purakh ਜਾ ਕੀ ਲੀਲਾ ਕੀ ਮਿਤਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ .



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Bijla Singh
1) How is Vaheguru Ik-Rass if He becomes “many from one”? This cannot be continuous since “many” was not there to begin with and after the creation ceases, “many” will not be there anymore.

ਜਤ ਕਤਹ ਤਤਹ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੰ ਸ੍ਵਰਗ ਮਰਤ ਪਯਾਲ ਲੋਕਹ ॥
ਸਰਬਤ੍ਰ ਰਮਣੰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦਹ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਪ ਛੇਪ ਨ ਲਿਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਤੇ ॥


Nirgun Sach Swaroop Waheguru is always continuous there is NO doubt about it ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥.

Whether HE is One to Many or Many to One, HE is always Nirlep in Nirgun Swaroop - ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ .

HE plays this game of creating One to Many and Many to One and eventually --> ਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਿ ਅਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਨ ਅੰਤ ਕੋ ਫਿਰਿ ਏਕ ॥.

HE is ਆਸਨ ਅਭੰਗ ॥ ਉਪਮਾ ਅਨੰਗ ॥.

There are so many panktis which shows HE is Ek-Ras.


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Bijla Singh
2) How could Vaheguru have a desire? Jaap Sahib states that He is “Nirkaam”.
Sorry, my mistake. Sometime I just don't get appropriate words to express. Instead I should have used other words like Vichaar/Furnaa but still I don't know the appropriate word for it.


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Bijla Singh
3) If Vaheguru can create maya then surely He can create the rest of the world. So why does He need a partner (maya) to create the Srishti? Is maya required? If maya gave birth to gunns then maya has the creative power which means there is something in the world that was created by someone other than Vaheguru. This doesn’t make Vaheguru Nirsreek.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

I certainly did not meant that. I was trying to express that working through Maya the Waheguru created Sristi. Maya by on its own does not have any whim & fancy. Only when the "Satta" or "Ansh" or "Aksh" of Waheguru falls on Maya then it gets ability to do something.


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Bijla Singh
4) Are you classifying Ishwar and Parmeshwar as lower and higher Brahmn like in Indian philosophies especially Vedanta? Let’s assume it is true, then how is Vaheguru ik-rass? He is changing every time creation is created and destroyed.

ਆਪਿ ਇਕਾਤੀ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਵਡ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥
Brahm is ਇਕਾਤੀ and HIS Brahmaand is ਵਡ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ. This is how HE is Ek-Rass and creations (Viraat Roop) at the same time.

I am calling Akaal Purakh Waheguru as Parmeshwar or Brahm.

Ishwar is an Entity which can be classified into Jeev with 100% Sato-Gunn + Maya + Prabal Ansh of Brahm. And this entity is below Parmeshwar or Brahm (who remains Nirlep). Yes, this is Vendantic philosophy.

Ya, people use the word Ishwar in context of God, Lord, Almighty, Allah, Waheguru, Parmeshwar, Kirtam Naams etc... but I am using it in above explained context.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 18, 2013 12:18AM
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ਏਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਬਿਆਪਕ ਪੂਰਕ ਜਤ ਦੇਖਉ ਤਤ ਸੋਈ ॥
ਮਾਇਆ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਮੋਹਿਤ ਬਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥
ਸੂਤੁ ਏਕੁ ਮਣਿ ਸਤ ਸਹੰਸ ਜੈਸੇ ਓਤਿ ਪੋਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

This does not prove that Vaheguru created through maya. The Shabad only proves non-dual nature of realty but makes no mention of maya creating anything.

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Everything happens under Hukam of Akaal Purakh Parmeshwar Waheguru. How Maya after taking "Satta" from Parmeshwar works to create creations/sristi is all known to Akaal Purakh ਜਾ ਕੀ ਲੀਲਾ ਕੀ ਮਿਤਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
.

Again, this does not prove that maya works from the power of Vaheguru to create anything.

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ਜਤ ਕਤਹ ਤਤਹ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੰ ਸ੍ਵਰਗ ਮਰਤ ਪਯਾਲ ਲੋਕਹ ॥
ਸਰਬਤ੍ਰ ਰਮਣੰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦਹ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਪ ਛੇਪ ਨ ਲਿਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਤੇ ॥

This Shabad proves that Vaheguru is everywhere but it does not prove that He became many from One. Being everywhere doesn’t mean becoming many.

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Whether HE is One to Many or Many to One, HE is always Nirlep in Nirgun Swaroop

How is He nirgun when He is many? Doesn’t many refer to creation, Sargun? Either He is always One or only when creation is not there. This is contrary to beng Ik-rass.

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HE plays this game of creating One to Many and Many to One and eventually --> ਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਿ ਅਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਨ ਅੰਤ ਕੋ ਫਿਰਿ ਏਕ ॥.

Is He creating many or He is becoming many? First you ssaid that He is one to many. If He always remains one then He never becomes many. Creator and the created are not one in essence.

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I certainly did not meant that. I was trying to express that working through Maya the Waheguru created Sristi. Maya by on its own does not have any whim & fancy. Only when the "Satta" or "Ansh" or "Aksh" of Waheguru falls on Maya then it gets ability to do something.

I understand this but there is no Gurbani Shabad to prove that maya was given power to create something. It seems a fanciful idea.

Just to clarify, daas is only looking for explanation and clarification rather than trying to prove you wrong. My intent is not to have a debate or argument with you. Guru Rakha
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 18, 2013 05:59AM
Bhai Sahib Jee I think you are getting wrong perception when I am saying "one to many and many to one". Let me try to convey this using an example.

Let say there is Sun shining high up in sky. Below on ground there are 100 pots filled with water in it. So we can see Sun in those 100 pots. This means Sun is there in pots but it is also true that Sun is not there in pots.

Similarly, we (and other creations as well) are also pots in which the "Aksh/Satta" of Waheguru is falling. This is what I mean when I am saying one to many. When whole creations is gone then HE is many to one.

Let me give one more try. When I say "Many" it means Parmeshwar Sristi Vich Ramya (Woven) hoya hai. When Person-A is hungry and Person-B provides food. The manmukh will say Person-B gave food to Person-A. But Gurmukh knows that Parmeshwar was working through Person-B and provided food to Person-A. Instead, HE gave Vadiyayi to Person-B. Ramya hon karke Parmeshwar sade vich vicharda hai te karm karda hai. Karm karke vee usnu karm de phal nahi lag de. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲੇਪ ॥ ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਮਲ ਅਲੇਪ ॥. This is how HE in Nirgun Swaroop is Nirlep and Ik-Rass and still One. I am consfused that such a learned Sikh abhiyaasi like you is not able to understand what I am conveying. Maybe I am not able to connect with you at your frequencies.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
July 18, 2013 10:22AM
This makes it clear and I agree with you. Perhaps you shouldn’t say God becomes from One to many and just state that He is present everywhere and His light pervades all. Being Anek refers to being present in everything rather than the thing itself in essence. This fine line needs to be visible and clear to distinguish Gurmat monotheism from pantheism. Guru Rakha
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Re: Deep Veechar on ੴ
December 02, 2013 04:27PM
Satkar yog Jaskirat Singh ji,

Thank you for this thread. You have presented meaning of 'Ek' beautifully through Advait (non-dualistic) Vedanta.
Dear Bijla Singh ji, sometimes looking for answers we start looking far away. It seems we missed Japuji sahib itself while looking for the answer to your question. The answer lies in the 'Eka mayi jugat viyayi...' paurhi. I'm sure it would make clear how Akal Purakh brought the Trimurti into being through Maya. And we know what role the three Devtas play. I hope this would add to the fruitful discussion.

Bhul chuk maaf ji,
Daas
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