Interesting Questions Related To 4 Yugs.

Dass will like to understand what is the stand of Gurmat on the philosophy of 4 Yugs and what answers Gurmat has for the following questions :

---

Q1
Till now I had an understanding that when we mention 4 Yugs (Satya, Treta, Dvapar and Kalyug) it is being referred to the Yugs occurring on our planet Earth (meaning our Solar System in Milky Way Galaxy) and we are Not referring it to other Galactic systems.

Other Galactic systems may have their own Life and may have their own Yugas but when we are talking of 4 Yugs, mentioned above, then we are talking specifically of Earth's only. Is this understanding right ?

---

Q2
Does the 4 Yugs keep on repeating one after another in proper order i.e. Satya to Treta to Dvapar to Kalyug. OR does they have the possibility to go in random order for example Satya to Kalyug to Treta to Dvapar etc...

---

Q3
When the 4 Yugs rolls, does they have a behaviour of Water Tight Compartment or do they actually overlap where one slowly fades out and other slowly fades in.

If the behaviour is of Water Tight Compartment type then it means one Yug ends and other Yug totally begins on fresh note. Then what we will call the span of time elapsed between old yug ending and new yug beginning ?

If the behaviour is of overlapping in nature then, is the fade-out and fade-in time span same in every cycle or does it varies ? For example when Dvapar fades-out and Kalyug fades-in, does this time span will be same when this cycle repeats.

---

Q4
Does the 4 Yugs really repeat between the time span of "Srishti Creation" and "Srishti Destruction" ?

If answer is YES, then does that mean the same specfic Avataars will again take place one after another in specific Yugs (in each cycle) ?
The problem is if this does not happen this way then Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee has the possibility of taking Avataar in Satya Yug and Vishu taking Avataar in Kalyug. But we eventually know that only the teachings of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee can ship you out of Kalyug. So do we conclude that specific Avataars will again take place one after another in specific Yugs ?

---

Q5
Does the 4 Yugs really repeat between the time span of "Srishti Creation" and "Srishti Destruction" ?

If the answer is NO, then again we have a problem. If Yugs do not repeat then it means that with the end of Kalyug the Srishti Destruction will happen and Parmatam will be in Sunya-Samadhi. So what happens to Khalsa Raj then ? We know that Khalsa Raj will put an end to Kalyug so do we safely conclude that 4 Yugs repeats. Then Khalsa Raj falls under which Yug ? Have not we seen Khalsa Raj is past cycles of 4 Yugs, then ?

---

Q6
When the cycle repeats, does the Information Flow happens or there is Information Death ?

What I means is, does the knowledge gathered in Granths gets passed on from One Cycle to the Next Cycle. In present cycle we have Granths passed on from pervious Yugs to Kalyug. Like Vedas, Purans, Upnishads etc... got passed on to Kalyug. Now, lets assume Khalsa Raj comes so we will be carrying forward the teachings of SGGS along with other texts Vedas, Purans, Upnishads etc... from Kalyug to SatyaYug.

So there is a possibility that we successfully transfer all the Granths from present cycle to next cycle. Now, there is one more problem, what happened to Granths of previous cycle's Kalyug and other Yug. OR is this the 1st Cycle. This can't be the 1st cycle because we know from present Granths that 4 Yug cycle repeats.

---

Q7
If the 4 Yugs are repeating, are not the Prahlad vs Harnaksh, Ram vs Ravan, Kaurava vs Pandava, Mughal vs Sikhs stories repeating in every specific Yugs in every cycle?

If the same stories are not repeating then what actually happens in the next cycle consisting of 4 Yugs. Are the new Battles and new Stories and new Granths going to occur in the next cycle consisting of 4 Yugs ?

---

Q8
Finally, I mean this gets more complicated when I think where does Dinosaurs fits in which Yug. We cannot ignore them because we have uncovered their fossils on this Earth. Are they gonna come back ?

What explanation we have for the cave paintings which describes that Human Being lived in Stone Age and hunted for animals. The painting shows that human had weapons made from Stone. So what was that Yug and where was Dharma ?

The complications gets more complicated when I am forced to think of the ancient civilizations we have discovered, like Indus Valley, Mesopotamia, Egyptian, Mayan etc... where do they fit in which Yug and where was Dharma ?

My assumption is before Kalyug, mostly Avataars took place in Indian subcontinent. What about the civilizations that were out of scope of that region and never came in contact with each other. Are there some more Avataars specific to that civilization that we are unaware of ?

---

Probably, we are missing the big piece of the puzzle here and question remains, Are we going to re-invent the wheel in the next 4 yug cycle ?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Interesting. I have a feeling there won't be specific answers. There may be pointers for example from Pehli Vaar of Bhai Gurdass ji. But I shall be coming back to read the responses.

Probably when the event of 'Aakarsh' takes place everything merges back into formlessness of Akal-Purakh. Once that event takes place Time, Space, and Thoughts (which are products of physical space and sequence of events) would no longer exist. Karamkhand and Sachkhand would exist but that is not physical existence. It is spiritual.
These are big questions and only Akal Purakh knows whats going to happen. The best we can do is to recite Naam and increase our thirst of Akal-Purakh. Woe unto me who knows this and yet does so little. Guruji kirpa karo ji bhagti di bhukh devo.

My simple understanding is that the jugs applies to this dharamshal our world called earth. I do believe that the jugs are circular not linear. Meaning they repeat over and over.

Maskeen Ji mentions how within Gurbani "jugs" have different meanings. Sometimes they can refer to a specific time and place
For example
ਕਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਧ੍ਰੂ ਪਰਿ ॥

While in other instances " jugs " refer to a state of being/mind.
Ex: ਇਕ ਘੜੀ ਨ ਮਿਲਤੇ ਤਾ ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਹੋਤਾ ॥

When we forget Waaheguru we are in Kaljug, but when we remember him and keep rehat we are in Satjug.

Guru Amardas ji writes

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ मारू महला ३ ॥ Mārū mėhlā 3. Maaroo, Third Mehl:
ਜੁਗ ਛਤੀਹ ਕੀਓ ਗੁਬਾਰਾ ॥ जुग छतीह कीओ गुबारा ॥
Jug cẖẖaṯīh kī▫o gubārā.
For thirty-six ages, utter darkness prevailed.

ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰਾ ॥ तू आपे जाणहि सिरजणहारा ॥
Ŧū āpe jāṇėh sirjaṇhārā.
Only You Yourself know this, O Creator Lord.

ਹੋਰ ਕਿਆ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਿ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੧॥ होर किआ को कहै कि आखि वखाणै तू आपे कीमति पाइदा ॥१॥
Hor ki▫ā ko kahai kė ākẖ vakẖāṇai ṯū āpe kīmaṯ pā▫iḏā. ||1||
What can anyone else say? What can anyone explain? Only You Yourself can estimate Your worth. ||1||

ang 1061

nothing is better than gian da sagar (maskeen ji) :

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]


hope most of your questions will be answered...

bhul chuk muaaf..

Yugs are simply time periods. The time never repeats itself nor do the events repeat. Repeat of a Yug does not mean repeat of all sequences and events as the last one. Nor does it mean same people coming back to live the same way as they did in the last same yug. In Hindu mythology, time is divided into four periods that are based on religious condition of the people. All yugs have different rules in regards to divine punishments and karma. In my opinion, Gurmat does not believe in such a division. In Gurbani when four yugs are mentioned, many times it refers to the entire time span from the beginning to the end. When each yug is referenced and some Hindu thought is mentioned, it is usually to explain what the prevalent belief is and then in the last verses, Gurmat belief is presented.

Again, time does not repeat nor does time control how the events are to happen. And it certainly does not control when the avtaars will come. Gurmat has been established and it will never cease to exist whether yugs change or not. The best way to understand this is by discussing Gurbani shabads that mention yugs. 36 yugs in Gurbani refers to infinite amount of time. Guru Rakha

Bijla Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yugs are simply time periods. The time never
> repeats itself nor do the events repeat. Repeat of
> a Yug does not mean repeat of all sequences and
> events as the last one. Nor does it mean same
> people coming back to live the same way as they
> did in the last same yug. In Hindu mythology, time
> is divided into four periods that are based on
> religious condition of the people. All yugs have
> different rules in regards to divine punishments
> and karma. In my opinion, Gurmat does not believe
> in such a division. In Gurbani when four yugs are
> mentioned, many times it refers to the entire time
> span from the beginning to the end. When each yug
> is referenced and some Hindu thought is mentioned,
> it is usually to explain what the prevalent belief
> is and then in the last verses, Gurmat belief is
> presented.
>
> Again, time does not repeat nor does time control
> how the events are to happen. And it certainly
> does not control when the avtaars will come.
> Gurmat has been established and it will never
> cease to exist whether yugs change or not. The
> best way to understand this is by discussing
> Gurbani shabads that mention yugs. 36 yugs in
> Gurbani refers to infinite amount of time. Guru
> Rakha

It is not the time which repeats, it is the events which repeats, and events are created by Akal Purakh and whatever He Hukams shall happen. If Akal Purakh makes the events repeat, they will repeat, because He creates and He sustains, He runs it, He destroys it. Rules, regulations are all His.

Quote

It is not the time which repeats, it is the events which repeats, and events are created by Akal Purakh and whatever He Hukams shall happen. If Akal Purakh makes the events repeat, they will repeat, because He creates and He sustains, He runs it, He destroys it. Rules, regulations are all His.

I agree. Vaheguru can do everything. If He wishes for everything to repeat it shall happen. The question was that if yugs repeat will all the events repeat. And my answer was a no. What I meant was that a yug (time period) does not have any power to cause any events to repeat or make avtaars come to earth.

Yess Veerji yug in itself has no power. But who knows what Waheguru will do? How can we know that the exact same events will or will not re-occur? In fact ancient Indian thought says that it does exactly repeat. Swami Vivekananda expressed so in one of his speeches. But I don't think Gurbani talks about this point anywhere in a definitive manner.

It is vedic literature that mentions division of time in Yugas.Gurbani does not acknowledge such intricate calculations.
It lays stress on realizing akal purakh by Naam simran.


ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਕੀਤਾ ॥
प्रभि संसारु उपाइ कै वसि आपणै कीता ॥
Parabẖ sansār upā▫e kai vas āpṇai kīṯā.
God created the Universe, and He keeps it under His power.

ਗਣਤੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਰਮੀਤਾ ॥
गणतै प्रभू न पाईऐ दूजै भरमीता ॥
Gaṇṯai parabẖū na pā▫ī▫ai ḏūjai bẖarmīṯā.
God cannot be obtained by counting; the mortal wanders in doubt.

ang 510

Quote
Inder Singh
Gurbani does not acknowledge such intricate calculations.

Of course Gurbani acknowledge that. For example :
1) Har Jug Jug Bhagat Upaya. --> This means there are more than one Yug. It also means that one yug is different from another yug. If there was no Yug having different characteristics from another Yug then the pankti could have been "Har Vele Bhagat Upaya".
2) Kalyug mein kirtan pardhana. --> This means there is a specified time period called Kalyug.

What, Bhai Sahib Bijla Singh Jee has stated seems to be very appropriate that - "Yugs are simply time periods" and there is no necessity for the events to repeat.

---

On a daily basis we have cycle of Day & Night. But the length of Day and Night varies over the period of 365 days.

On a yearly basis we have cycle of Seasons. But the amount of Rain, Heat, Snow, Cold etc... varies every year.

So I am sure 4 Yugs also have Cycles. Each Yug has it's own characteristic of events. The events happening in present cycle may not be exactly same as previous cycle but they will bear similar characteristics and attributes.

---

So now, can we define what is the definitions of these 4 Yugs ?

For example : Kalyug is the time period where 5 Vikaars are very prominent and moral character of an ideal human being is on the verge of extinction.

In a given Hypothetical situation - Suppose if 100 Employees are given opportunity to cheat and steal money from an Employer then there exist a probability that 99 Employees will steal if the time period falls under Kalyug.

While on the other hand there might exist a probability that 0 (zero) Employee will steal if the time period falls under Satyug.

So what are different characteristics of these 4 Yugs ?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

What i wrote was that there ought to be methods to calculate time periods of each yuga. These are very intricate per Hindu mythology. There are ascending and descending phases of yugas that last for thousands of years. Then there is maha yuga etc etc.Then there is Brahma day and Brahma night that is many times greater than universal day and night.

Gurbani does not lay any emphasis on such calculations.Gurbani's essence is realization of God and such calculations are rooted in maya.




That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||
ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਵਾਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
पड़ि पड़ि पंडित जोतकी वाद करहि बीचारु ॥
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ joṯkī vāḏ karahi bīcẖār.
After all their reading, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate.

ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਭਵੀ ਨ ਬੁਝਈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲੋਭ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
मति बुधि भवी न बुझई अंतरि लोभ विकारु ॥
Maṯ buḏẖ bẖavī na bujẖ▫ī anṯar lobẖ vikār.
Their intellect and understanding are perverted; they just don't understand. They are filled with greed and corruption.

Ang 27

Bhai Sahib Inder Singh Jee with all due respect and with no offence, the Gurbani Pankti you have been quoting seems to bear no relation with the subject of this thread. Instead of just quoting some pankti if you can elaborately explain them in connection with the thread that will be more helpful in building the understanding.

Moreover, building an understanding on some subject does not necessarily means Bhramanvaad or becoming Manmukh or drifting away from Gurmat. That helps in making your Chetna more Suchet.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Yugas calculation involves complex calculations.It is related to Vedic literature.I am not expert at that but i know a little bit that all yugas comprise one Maha yuga and then it goes to reign of manu. Then you have four yugas and no one knows how 36 yugas are formed.Whether there are 9 parts in each or not?So Yuga is just not a random word but a whole philosophy behind it.And it is a muddled philosophy as their calculations run into milillion of years without a solid conclusion.

Gurbani is about praises of akal purakh and purpose of human life is to realize Him. The verses i have posted say that such calculations serve no purpose in our endeavor of realizing God but feed our ego. Gurbani says that contemplating upon akal purakh should be the main object. And even if a person is not educated he can attain param gatt ( liberation from births and deaths) by Naam simran.

If you find in gurbani the method of arriving at age period of yugas kindly enlighten me.

Jaskirat singh ji

I read your post and mention of avtars such as vishnu coming in so and so yuga. With all due respect,GurBani does not recognize these avtars as they are recognized in Hinduism.

Guru gobind singh ji concludes

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥
Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

Bachitra natak, Dasam Granth sahib

Though they were sent to this world, Guru sahib writes they failed in their duties and hence could not realize Parmatma.

Quote

So now, can we define what is the definitions of these 4 Yugs ? For example : Kalyug is the time period where 5 Vikaars are very prominent and moral character of an ideal human being is on the verge of extinction.

A time period cannot have a definition. A time period or a yug does not dictate the religious and moral character of the people. Rather it is the opposite. In Gurmat, if we wanted to give a time period a name then we will look at how the majority of the people on earth are behaving and living. Based on this, ever since the beginning, Kalyug has existed because Gurmat had not been revealed. Once Khalsa Raj is established, Satyug will start and eventually take over. According to Hinduism, it will still be Kalyug but not according to Gurmat. A time period can be considered changed when people change whereas in Hindu mythology, a change in yug is the cause of change in people.

If we break it down then we observe that there is no kalyug (in Hindu sense) that is causing the crime and immorality in the world. This concept is similar to Islamic Satan being the cause of evil. In Gurmat, the evil comes from mind and when attuned to Gurbani it becomes pure. A sangat of gursikhs is like satyug and company of criminals is like kalyug.

I don’t think these yugs of Hinduism will repeat or ever do repeat on their own. I believe once Khalsa Raj comes, it will keep on spreading and remain forever. In Hinduism, yugs can keep on changing but the state of people will not change so satyug will remain.

Quote

In a given Hypothetical situation - Suppose if 100 Employees are given opportunity to cheat and steal money from an Employer then there exist a probability that 99 Employees will steal if the time period falls under Kalyug.

While on the other hand there might exist a probability that 0 (zero) Employee will steal if the time period falls under Satyug.

If 100 people are gursikhs then they will not steal and if they are criminals then they will so again it is not the time that dictates mental state of people. Instead, it is the opposite. Every moment can be a kalyug or satyug or anything in between. Gurbani does not advocate Hindu version of yugs. Guru Rakha

One thing I would like to add, its sort of both a comment and a question lol...

There are particular people and events mentioned within Sri Gurbani, for instance, prahald and harnakhash. Since Gurbani is attall (eternal), this must mean that all of these events must take place and people must be there in that particular cycle of creation.

For example, just say that when maha parlao happens and EVERYTHING goes back into Vaheguroo, and then the creation starts again, at the very least all of those people and events mentioned in Gurbani have to take place, because eventually Gurbani would be revealed and for people to understand Gurbani, those events would have had to happened and those people have to be historical figures.

That is of course unless those things mentioned in Gurbani didn't take place in this creation but actually took place in a whole different cycle.

I hope that makes sense. Would anyone like to elaborate/clarify this?

Thank You Bhai Sahib Bijla Singh Jee, your explanation makes perfect sense to me now.

Quote
Uttam Singh
For example, just say that when maha parlao happens and EVERYTHING goes back into Vaheguroo, and then the creation starts again, at the very least all of those people and events mentioned in Gurbani have to take place, because eventually Gurbani would be revealed and for people to understand Gurbani, those events would have had to happened and those people have to be historical figures.

I personally believe, Gurbani is not limited to 1430 Angs. It is given to us in 1430 Angs in present time where majority of human being's average age is let say between 80-100 yrs. One cannot fill 2 litre of water in the bottle of 1 litre. So, it was more appropriate for the Guru Sahib to decide to give the gyan in 1430 Angs to human being having age of around 100 yrs. Only Guru Sahibs knows the best so they did according to Paramatam's Mauj.

So assuming that after Maha Pralay the Gurbani gets revealed again then not necessarily it will be 1430 Angs with same examples of Prahlad-Harnaksh, Raam-Raavan etc... May be there will be new examples and may be average human age extends to 1000s yrs and so Granth also extends from 1430 Angs to some more thousands or lakhs. Who knows ?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Quote

For example, just say that when maha parlao happens and EVERYTHING goes back into Vaheguroo, and then the creation starts again, at the very least all of those people and events mentioned in Gurbani have to take place, because eventually Gurbani would be revealed and for people to understand Gurbani, those events would have had to happened and those people have to be historical figures.

Gurbani principles are eternal. References to people, places etc. are not and those can change depending on the next creation. It is very possible that Guru Sahib revealed Gurbani on a different planet and those people have the same Bani except references are different. To assert that the same events and people have to exist again is analogous to saying God is stuck in using them. He creates the creation in a different manner and method every time and the creation is also different. His creativity never ends and he never runs out of ideas.

I personally believe that many past figures and characters are used for reference only and to elucidate Gurbani principles not to prove their historicity. Whether they truly existed or not is not the concern of Gurbani. It all depends on who is mentioned and in what manner. This can start a long debate and discussion so let’s leave it at that. Guru Rakha