Sikh Dharam and others

Going through Gurbani, one could easily understand that as long as you are truely merged in His (Ture Lord) Naam, you could attain Him whether you call Him Allah/Ram/Rahim/Shyam/Madho/Gopal/Waheguroo etc. On What basis we claim that only Amritdhari and even with only Sarabloh Bibek (please forgive me in advance, I am not questioning Amrit and Rehat for Sikhs at all) Sikhs could attain him. Is not it lot of Bhagats were from different backrounds? Baba Farid ji were even existed before Guru Nanak Dev ji. I just want to discuss it with Equality and Unviversal brotherhood point of view. I know Gurbani says, "Hindu Anna, Turku Kanaa" but it must be a generalised term used for majority. There must be a one in lakhs/karores other than a Sikh who might be a true lover of God out of other religion and might have experienced Him which todays Sikhs can not even expect; actually even preach totally opposite during Katha programs.

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Going through Gurbani, one could easily understand that as long as you are truely merged in His (Ture Lord) Naam, you could attain Him whether you call Him Allah/Ram/Rahim/Shyam/Madho/Gopal/Waheguroo etc

You write that as long as one is merged in "True Naam" and then you write that you could attain him whether you call him Allah/Raam... How do you reconcile this statement? How you can be merged in True Naam and then call or Japp Allah or Rahim?

Please quote Gurbani Pankitis that have led you to believe the above quoted statement of yours.

And all Bhagats including Baba Farid jee were contemporaries of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. All Bhagats attained Vaheguru through the True Satguru - Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. This topic has been discussed before also. I suggest that you read Giani Gurdit Singh jee's monumental work - Bhagat Baani da Itihaas. It proves beyond doubt that all Bhagats met Guru Sahib and became Sikhs. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written very strongly that all Bhagats became Mukat through Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib Jeo,
I am sure we all know that Guru Sahib taught Muslims how to do Correct Namaj (with Dhyaan). I am sure he did not suggest them to start japping Waheguru Naam but whatever they were already using. Guru Sahibs themselves used Allah, Ram, Rahim etc. names in different moodes and different location/conversation. But end result was to align "Shabad" and "Surat" regardless of Name itself. Would you agree that all the names used in Gurbani represent same "Waheguru". If HE is one and universal, his names could be different by location or culture but He still going to remain same. I am aware of Giani Gurdit Singh's work, I believe it was proven that Baba Farid ji's bani was brought to Guru Nanak Dev ji by a person on Baba Fardi ji's Gaddi, not Baba Farid ji himself. Regardless, We all know Waheguru is since there was nothing and He must be called other than Waheguru in the past. I agree that Guru Sahib gave us as Waheguru Gurmantar but He also equally respected other names too. If we interpret all those words to same Universal Power, what stops us to accept that those names mean same thing and has same value?

Saag Ji,

If Sri Guru Ji encouraged others to jap some other name then kindly explain the following Hukum.
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

What is the one name Sri Guru Ji tells us to Jaap? One name can only mean one name and not two. Would you agree if the sakhi does not support Gurbani then it has been altered? Secondly, I dont know of any sakhi in which Sri Guru JI told people to jap some kirtam naam. From all the ones I have read Sri Guru Ji left with the message " satnaam jaap". Satnaam refers to Gurmantar.

In regards to Sheik Farid Ji there is a sakhi in Bhai Bala Janam Sakhis which shows a meeting between Sheikh Farid Ji and Sri Guru Ji met. While Sheikh Farid jis disciplie was in the jungle gathering wood he heard Sri Guru Ji recite the following bani "Dhan Su Khagad Kalam" he and Sheikh Farid Ji eventually both become followers of Sri Guru Ji t. Many mistaken people refer to Sheik Ibrahim Farid as a decendent of Sheikh Farid but actually Sheikh Ibrahim Farid is the same as Sheikh Farid. When Bhai Gurdas Ji was scribing bani the Bhagats appeared and Sheikh Farids name is recorded as Sheikh Ibrahim Farid so we can conclude the bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji of Sheikh Farid is the same Farid who met SRi Guru Ji in the jungle.

Lastly if Sheik Farid Ji was and remained a sufi to his death then why would he recite the following bani.
ਜੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਸੈ ਵਾਟ ਮੁਰੀਦਾ ਜੋਲੀਐ ॥੩॥

No sufi would ever give such advice.

One of the greatest saints of 20th century, puran Brahmgiani Mahapurakh Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Mastuana did not keep sarbloh rehit. So is the case with Sant Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Sant Baba Aaya Singh ji Hoti Mardan, and so is the case with Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Reru Sahib Wale. At the same time everybody in Sikh panth respects sarbloh/bibeki rehit. Baba Mit Singh ji of Nanded sahib, puran Brahmgiani used to keep sarbloh bibek.

The true fact is that Sarbloh bibek/rehit has tremendous value and is actually a spiritual secret which only is Sikhs know. I think it gives you a spiritual boost which no other diet and rehit can give. Its like steroids of the spiritual world.

These are only my personal views and I may be wrong.

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I am sure we all know that Guru Sahib taught Muslims how to do Correct Namaj (with Dhyaan). I am sure he did not suggest them to start japping Waheguru Naam but whatever they were already using.

Can you provide any evidence to this? Islamic Salah is strict to time and one has the freedom to say it the way they want and recite any verses from any Surah as they wish. This is in contrast to Sikh prayer. Islamic concept of Dhikr is very different than japping Naam. It does not involve repeating one word continuously.

Regarding the rest of your statement, please read this: [searchsikhism.com]

Your statements have been addressed in the article. Guru Rakha

Why would Guru Sahib come to this world, if everything everyone was doing was alright? What Updesh would Guru Nanak Dev Ji give, if what people were doing was already okay? Why would He then need to come to this world? Why would then there be Sikhi? Why are we Sikhs, and not Muslims or Hindus? Why would Bhai Sahib Gurdaas Jee write "Kal Taaran Gur Naanak Aayeaa" (Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Naanak Dev Jee Maharaj came to liberate the people of Kalyug). Sugg ji, this means Bhai Sahib Gurdaas ji really didn't know anything. We should totally abandon his writings and Gurbani and Sri Dasam Granth, and become Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus...

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I am sure we all know that Guru Sahib taught Muslims how to do Correct Namaj (with Dhyaan). I am sure he did not suggest them to start japping Waheguru Naam but whatever they were already using.

Why do you assume that Guru Sahib would not tell an ex-Muslim follower to Japp Gurmat Naam? Sure, if a Muslim does Nimaaz with Dhyaan, it is more beneficial to him but this does not mean that Nimaaz will take a Muslim to the Gurmat spiritual destination of Sachkhand. Gurbani has rejected the 5 Nimaaz and given new 5 Nimaaz. There are many Shabads of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee and Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee that redefine 5 Nimaaz.

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Guru Sahibs themselves used Allah, Ram, Rahim etc. names in different moodes and different location/conversation. But end result was to align "Shabad" and "Surat" regardless of Name itself.

Surely Guru Sahib has used the "Kirtam Naam" like Raam, Hari etc. but this does not mean that Guru Sahib has accepted their Jaap. All Kirtam Naam in Gurbani are used in place of Gurmat Naam which has been kept Gupt since it's the Gurmantr of Gurughar.

If one was to have full Surat and Dhyaan on a Kirtam Naam, it would not produce same results as having full Surat and Dhyaan on Gurmat Naam. Only Gurmat Naam is capable of taking the Jeev to Gurmat abode - Sachkhand.

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Would you agree that all the names used in Gurbani represent same "Waheguru". If HE is one and universal, his names could be different by location or culture but He still going to remain same.

No doubt, Vaheguru stays the same, now matter how He is addressed. Our chanting and Bhagti does not change Him but we need to bear in mind that a Kirtam Naam represents one of more qualities of Vaheguru but the Gurmat SatNaam represents complete Vaheguru. By chanting the Gurmat Naam, the seeker gets the complete attainment of Vaheguru. By chanting other Naams, one does benefit but does not reach the topmost destination.

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I am aware of Giani Gurdit Singh's work, I believe it was proven that Baba Farid ji's bani was brought to Guru Nanak Dev ji by a person on Baba Fardi ji's Gaddi, not Baba Farid ji himself.

No. Giani jee has proved that the Baani of Baba Farid jee in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee belongs to Farid Saani (Farid like) and not of Farid Shakarganj, the original Farid. As Veer Sukhdeep Singh has pointed out, as per our Janamsaakhis, Guru Sahib met Farid Saani couple of times and cured his Dubidha through Gurmat. Farid whose Baani is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee was a Sikh of Guru Sahib and not a Muslim Sufi.

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Regardless, We all know Waheguru is since there was nothing and He must be called other than Waheguru in the past. I agree that Guru Sahib gave us as Waheguru Gurmantar but He also equally respected other names too. If we interpret all those words to same Universal Power, what stops us to accept that those names mean same thing and has same value?

Our interpretation doesn't matter. What matters is what Guru Sahib thinks. Let's take a worldly example. Let's imagine that there is a huge treasure which is protected by a password. Different people have different access to this treasure and depending on the password they use, they get that much access to this treasure. But there is only one password that gives complete access to the treasure. Now if someone does not have this ultimate password but uses inferior passwords to get full access to the treasure, will it work? Just faith alone will not work. Same way, just having full faith in Kirtam Naam will not ensure full Darshan and attainment of Vaheguru. One needs not only full faith but also Gurmat Naam to get full attainment of Vaheguru.

Guru Sahib knows better. It is strongly recommended that you read Gurmat Naam Abhyaas Kamaaee and Naam te Naam da Daata Satguru. In these books Bhai Sahib has discussed the importance and greatness of Gurmat Naam.

Kulbir Singh

Bijla Singh ji,
Thanks for the link. It talks about this topic in detail but at the end, he still says, "Anammang" means He has unlimited names. I was kind of inclining to accept that each name describe one particular quality of Him but I could not satisfy myself with that claim as I consider wherever Gurbani refer to Him as Ram, Allah, Rahim, Karim, Gopal, Hari, Madho........... Reference is About Him as a Complete.... not as one particular quality. for sure, some places Gurbani is refering to particular quality as well but majority time it is about HIM in complete. To me, it is our own interpretetions as one particular quality related to each Name, but Guru Sahib is refering Him in complete using all these different names.

About Bhagats; Question comes to my mind; did Guru Arjan Dev ji invited all Bhagats throughout India to bring their Bani or Bhagat came themselves by hearing that Aad Granth is being compiled? Had they already have Bani and Did they bring their Bani with them or did they recite it in front of Guru Sahib afresh? We all know Meera and Pilu were turned down as their Bani was not at par as rest of Gurbani. If they already had Bani, they were already in Love with God.

We all know that Japping Naam by rasna is only an intial stage. One has to move forward to a stage when He is in your thoughts all the time, where u do not worry about worldly things, when you see Him in all Srishti. One has to truely immerse in Him/His Naam and I am sure Bhagats were already at that stage when they met Guru Sahib.

Anamang or Aname doesn't mean unlimited names. Rather it means He is not limited to one particular name. Names of God used in Gurbani refer to Him but it doesn't mean the names themselves are complete. There is no word that can describe Him completely. Gurbani makes it clear. You seem to be stuck in your own view rather than understanding Gurbani. Raghbir Singh Bir says that meditation using any Kirtam name is incomplete because rather than focusing on One Formless God, you are focusing on only one attribute. Guru's Hukam is to meditate using Gurmantar and a Sikh has no option to pick and choose any name.

Sagg Wrote:
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I just want to discuss it with
> Equality and Unviversal brotherhood point of view.
> I know Gurbani says, "Hindu Anna, Turku Kanaa" but
> it must be a generalised term used for majority.

This is the problem with our modern view - we do not accept Gurbani as the 100% truth without any shanka - no matter these questions arise and they will keep arising - jeevan will be lost - these views are pointless for discussion - Gurbani is no where generalised - it's Bani from Dhur - Akal purakh - please retract this statement.

>

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Sagg
"Hindu Anna, Turku Kanaa

Here Hindu & Turk is a Metaphor and it is not being referred to any religion.

We know that in Hinduism the Rituals/Karam-Kaands are very prominent. So "Hindu Anna" translates to the population (not specifically Hindu but can be anyone who is struck in Rituals) who keep on following fake rewardless rituals are actually Blind.

On the other hand, Islam took a one step ahead of Hinduism and propagated the idea of One God - Allah. Hence, their one eye got opened. But then they too got struck with worshipping at Kaba/Mazaar/Tomb/Pir/Fakir/Sufi etc... and their other eye remain closed.

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Sagg
On What basis we claim that only Amritdhari and even with only Sarabloh Bibek Sikhs could attain him

Sikhs are not bothered or worried about the methods followed by others. Sikhs out of their Love for their Satguru follow Hukam of their Guru Sahib. Sikhs have Pooran Bharosa on their Satguru because our Guru Sahib is Pooran and Sarb-Kala Samrath.

Now, to answer your question in One Line.
Kalgidhar Dasmesh Pita Jee Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee requested Punj to give Him Amrit because from that day onwards the authority and power to make Sikh was transferred to Punj. Guru Sahib, Himself became the 1st Amritdhari Sikh to take Amrit prepared in Sarbloh Khanda Batta from Punj. Isn't this basis enough ?

When Satguru Jee Himself has taken Amrit from Punj, is not that enough to explain the importance of being Amritdhari and keeping Sarbloh bibek.

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Sagg
There must be a one in lakhs/karores other than a Sikh who might be a true lover of God out of other religion and might have experienced Him which todays Sikhs can not even expect

That is true. That is why such Jeev-Aatmas take birth in Gursikh Families and as soon as they take Amrit, they die and leave this Maat-Lok immediately. That is the importance of Amrit.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

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Here Hindu & Turk is a Metaphor and it is not being referred to any religion.

We know that in Hinduism the Rituals/Karam-Kaands are very prominent. So "Hindu Anna" translates to the population (not specifically Hindu but can be anyone who is struck in Rituals) who keep on following fake rewardless rituals are actually Blind.

On the other hand, Islam took a one step ahead of Hinduism and propagated the idea of One God - Allah. Hence, their one eye got opened. But then they too got struck with worshipping at Kaba/Mazaar/Tomb/Pir/Fakir/Sufi etc... and their other eye remain closed.

Not to start any ‘behas’ on it but my understanding was a little different. I thought Hindu Anna meant Hindus are blind due to the fact that they lack truth in their lifestyle and scriptures. Vedas are mostly engrossed in empty rituals and any element of truth in Upnishds does not rise above maya. So idol worship, caste, and other rituals devoid of spirituality make the Hindus blind to see the truth.

Turku Kaana refers to a Muslim who does not hold anything other than Quran as the truth. Islam advocates that all the books and teachings of past prophets are abrogated by Quran and Mohammad so anyone who does not abide by Quran will go to hell. Without Islamic Shri’ah they do not see emancipation anywhere. This misleads them to not see the truth elsewhere. It is Shri’ah itself that made them one-eyed or narrow minded. Hence, the pankti is indirectly rejecting the false beliefs advocated by Hindu and Islamic scriptures that became the root cause of making their followers blind and one-eyed.

So in my opinion, the pankti is very specific to followers of Hindu and Semitic scriptures. This is not to deny its general application to anyone following the same rituals. I may be totally wrong on this. Guru Rakha

Without questioning anything in Gursikhi, I just want to learn:

How Ram/Allah/Hari/Karim/Rahim etc. are Kirtam Naams and how are they inferior/incomplete as compared to Gurmat Naam? Here I am not talking about everybody in general, I am talking about only who are truely in love with God, regardless of their religion/backround. If we want to generalize these things, Guru Sahib would have used same kind of wordings for today's majority sikhs as well.

If we all say Waheguroo is in whole srishti, in everybody; Why do we hate others because of their thoughts/actions etc. Why not we still see Waheguroo Jot in them? Why do we get this superior/inferior (Sarblohi/Amritshari/Kesashari/Cleanshaven) feeling? If one is truely working on "Gurmat Naam"; why can not he/she love everybody regardless of other person's level of understanding/journey/religion?

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Without questioning anything in Gursikhi, I just want to learn:

How Ram/Allah/Hari/Karim/Rahim etc. are Kirtam Naams and how are they inferior/incomplete as compared to Gurmat Naam? Here I am not talking about everybody in general, I am talking about only who are truely in love with God, regardless of their religion/backround. If we want to generalize these things, Guru Sahib would have used same kind of wordings for today's majority sikhs as well.

If we all say Waheguroo is in whole srishti, in everybody; Why do we hate others because of their thoughts/actions etc. Why not we still see Waheguroo Jot in them? Why do we get this superior/inferior (Sarblohi/Amritshari/Kesashari/Cleanshaven) feeling? If one is truely working on "Gurmat Naam"; why can not he/she love everybody regardless of other person's level of understanding/journey/religion?

Sagg Ji, nobody is looking down on non-gursikhs or rehatless Gursikhs.

Bear in mind naam and rehat are one as they are Sri Guru Jis updesh ( instruction) .Sri Guru Ji gives us naam as an instruction ( method). Now ask yourself which method of simran is better the one taughten by SRi Guru Ji or the method we try to learn ourselves? Secondly, how are we to progress on the Gurmat Marg without following Sri Guru Ji instructions of Gurmat Naam Abhyiaas and Gurmat rehat? If we follow our own mind instead of Sri Guru Ji instruction then how does this make us Gurmukh/Gursikh? Nobody can progress on their own accord ulitimately progression comes from his grace and his grace is given as we follow his instructions.

How can you claim the Gurus mantra is no different then the Sufis mantra Ana Al Haq " or the Hindus Mantra Sohang both which the seeker claims they are God. Gurus mantra is in strict praise of Sri Guru Parmeshar. Kirtam names have origins in pagan relgions . For example, the word Allah origianlly came from the pagan religions of Arabia and it meant moon God. On the other hand Gurmat Naam comes directly from sri sach khand. Gurmat Naam is an expression of his darshan and this name is directly revealed to the seeker during amrit samchar. Their is an oral tradition of passing on this naam from the Guru to its seeker from the time of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Kirtam names are not revealed names to the seeker with an unbroken tradition of initiation. If we say there is no differnt then Gurmat Naam we are ulitamately saying there is no difference between Raam Chander, Prophet Muhmmaad, and Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. If this is the case then what is the reason for SIkhi to come into this world?

Sukhdeep Singh jeo,
Could you please provide any Gurbani Pankti to proove that inspite of using all those names by Guru Sahib Himself for Parmeshar, those names are still inferior/incomplete?

I am not questioning following any sikhi principles for sikhs. All I was wondering when Guru Sahib says, "Sabh mae jot jot hai soe" ....... "Aval Allah noor upayaa kudrat ke sabh bande, ek noor te sabh jag upjeyaa kaun bhalae ko mandae"............ "Sabh mae reyaa samaee" ............ and other Gurbani tukks tell us all humanity is same and from same source......... still why do we have this superior/inferior feeling in practical when we say sikhs are better and other religion are not at par.......... If everything is in His Hukam, is not different religions/prophets as per His Hukam as well?

I also did not get reply to my previous query whether all Bhagat already had their Bani before they met Guru Sahib or not?

Sagg Jeeo, what seekers outside of Gurmat do is no concern for a Gursikh. As Gursikh we receive Naam from Satguru Ji, and we have no interest in reciting any other name.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਆ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥
ਏਕੋ ਪੜੈ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਬੂਝੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ॥੪॥

Im just curious have you taken Amrit and recieved instructions from Satguru Ji. Its very difficult to understand the greatness/superiority of Sri Guru Jis instructions unless you have made efforts in taking his instruction.

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I also did not get reply to my previous query whether all Bhagat already had their Bani before they met Guru Sahib or not?

Sorry I forgot to respond to this question. Many people who like to put SIkhi on the same par of other religions often state " if the Gurus bani and the Gurus mantra is so much greater then other banis and mantras then why are the banis of the Bhgats included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? These Bhagats did not propagate the gurus mantar".

Firstly we need to understand any bani which is recited with out the drib drishti jot of Satguru Ji is kachi bani. The banis that were uttered and included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were recited after receiving Darshan. Darshan and Sach Khand are one and the same thing. Only when the Bhagts entered Sach Khand could they recite such bani. A person can only enter Sach Khand through the true guru.

The Bhagats had many poetical devotional writings before meeting the Satguru. These writings were written according to the Bhagats own accord and not through the grace of Satguru Ji. For example, the Kabir panthis ( followers of Bhagat Kabir) have many of Bhagat Kabir Jis writings which he recited before meeting Satguru Ji. They are still available today . However, none of these writings are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Only those writings in which the Bhagats met/merged in drib drishti jot of Sri Guru Ji are included in Gurbani. Keep in mind we refer to these banis as Bhagat Ki Bani ( bani of the bhagats) for the purpose of clarification. These banis do not actually belong to the Bhagats nor did the Bhagats recite them on their own accord in fact these banis are Gurbani and they are of the Guru. Only when Satguru Ji blessed them with his nirgun darshan were they able to recite such Bani. They had no power on their own accord. Take the famous Raagis of Sri Guru Jis Darbar " Satte and Balwand" there recitings are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They were only mortals and at one time they even become ex-communicated from the panth due to their heresy. However, through the pure blessings of Sri Guru Ji they were able to recite the bani. Also, who can forget the famous sakhi of Sri Guru Harkrishan making a dumb mute recite and proprely exlain the deep philisophical text " Bhgwad Gita".

Thanks Sukhdeep singh jeo.

Kulbir Singh Jeo,
Could you please elaborate on all different names used for Parmeshar (including this too and how it is inferior/incomplete incomparison to Waheguroo?

Sagg ji,

All the names of Akal Purakh are holy and deserve utmost respect. Who are we mortals to disrespect these when Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj says this:

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵੇਚਾਰਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੈ ॥
ਸਭੁ ਲੋਕੁ ਸਲਾਹੇ ਏਕਸੈ ॥
ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੋਕਾ ਪਾਵ ਹੈ ॥
ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਜਾਉ ਜੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਵ ਹੈ ॥੪॥੨॥

(SGGS, 1168)

GuruSahib ji is balihar over ALL the Names of Akal Purakh.

But just as a pious woman loves everybody in the household, she may even joke and laugh with her devars (brothers of her husband) yet her love for her husband in completely different than others. She reserves special feelings for her husband. In the same way Gurmat Naam Waheguru is of utmost value and importance to Gursikhs.

Until one actually starts walking the path towards Akal Purakh, the debate whether other Names as equal to 'Waheguru' or below, remains futile. In fact the truth of the matter is when one starts serious practice one has to stick to one particular mantra and it always is the mantra which has been bestowed upon one by his Guru, which in case of Sikhs, is 'Waheguru'.

As far as respect for other religions go and the dispute whether other bhagats can attain Sachkhand or not, I would put in my 2 cents:

- A Gursikh -since he is a bhagat of Akal Purakh and since other religions are in their own way try to attain Akal Purakh - would always respect other religions and path.
- But this does mean that a Gursikh need believe that all paths are equal. He knows and believes based upon Gurubani's teachings that Gurmat marg is the 'Gaadhi Raah' or the Highway:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਚਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਡੀ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਇਆ (Bhai Gurdass ji, vaar 5 pauri 13 )

Sagg Wrote:
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> Thanks Sukhdeep singh jeo.
>
> Kulbir Singh Jeo,
> Could you please elaborate on all different names
> used for Parmeshar (including this too and how
> it is inferior/incomplete incomparison to
> Waheguroo?


This is a wrong direction the discussion is taking. Please do not go this way. Why is there a need to prove? Let each one stick to one's Guru's teaching. Our Guru Sahib's told us recite 'Waheguru' and so shall Sikhs do. There is no need to prove anything. Its our belief, period.

If one feels a pull towards a particular name, one may recite that. It is NOT a sin to do that! But there is no need to prove that they are equal to Waheguru mantra, or that Waheguru mantra is inferior or any other wise.

This is like arguing about a distant beautiful place while sitting at the bus station. The better thing is to board a bus and actually go there.

The proof of pudding is in the eating. Recite Gurmantar, Remove ego, Reach Sachkhand.

As Kulbir Singh Jee mentioned, read Gurmat Naam Abhyas Kamai by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee and your doubts will be cleared about the uniqueness of the Naam and Gurmantar that can only be obtained through Guru roop Panj Pyare.

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Please ponder upon the Gurbani Pankitis above. See how much force there is in the second Pantiti to chant only the "ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ" and none other - ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ. This leaves no doubt that a Sikh is to Japp only Gurmat Naam or Gurmukh Naam (as Siri Sukhmani Sahib says).

There's a reason why at the time of Amrit Sinchaar, the seekers are given one Gurmat Naam to chant and not just any qualitative name. There is no need to get into the debate as to which name of Vaheguru is superior. We are to do what our Guru Sahib is telling us to do. Guru Sahib has given us the Hukam to keep all Tek (hope) on Gurmat Naam and for this reason a Sikh should not Japp any other Naam. Why should there be a need to get into the debate as to which name of Vaheguru is best. As far as we are concerned, all qualities of Vaheguru are good but we are to Japp only Gurmat Naam given to us by Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

I seek forgiveness again if I am hurting anybody's feeling. I was not questioning anything for Sikhs. I felt that Guru Sahib has given equal repect to other Names as long as one is truely seeking for Him. If He is not restricted to one particular Name (we all says but do not believe in this statement I guess), It was coming to my mind that there must be God seekers in other religions too. If I have to accept that only Sikhs go to SachKhand, either I have to accept it blindly or actually I should accept it truely because other Gursikhs are saying so as they might have envisioned that. I thought instead of me reading the whole book, and understanding only one quarter will not help so it is better to ask over here as there are lot of Gursikhs visit here. I am surprised to see how we are coming with coments like, "we do not care about other religion"; "other names are not same even though they mean the same". I am note here to proove any point but trying to understand Guru Sahib's teachings from Universal brotherhood point of view. So, I think I should just accept it that only Sikh Religion is Supreme and forget about other mankind.

Sagg jee, to be honest, neither Gurmat nor Gurbani says all religions are equal. If they were all equal why are we Sikhs? why not choose an easier religion if all of them lead to the same destination? Before Guru Nanak Dev Jee, no one ever heard about Sachkhand. Neither is it the destination of any religion. A Muslim's destination is Jannat, a Christian wants Heaven, Buddhist wants Nirwana, Hindus have other destination depending on the deity they worship. These destinations do exist but they are in Gyan Khand. Only a Sikh says he wants Sachkhand instead of these temporary heavens. Religion should not be defined by political correctness or secularism.

When we read mool Mantar it says Vaheguru is Gurprasaad. That means milaap of Vaheguru is only obtainable through the kirpa of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee. That is what is meant by "Bin Satgur kine na poyo, bin satgur kine na paya" which means no one can obtain (milaap with) Vaheguru without Satguru and no one has obtained (milaap of) Vaheguru without Satguru. Only through Satgur Nanak Dev Jee's kirpa can we get somewhere. Do not think Shri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is same or equal to Jesus, Prof Mohammad, Krishna or Buddha because Sabh te Vadda Satgur Nanak!

If I have made any mistake in my understanding please correct me sangat jee.

Sagg Wrote:

> I should just accept it that only Sikh Religion is
> Supreme and forget about other mankind.


indeed - think about it sir if it wasn't then why is it here in the first place - the only religion to have parchar of around 280 odd years and parchar continuing as SGGS is present. Guru Sahib laid down their lives for other religions too as I 'm sure you're aware. Secondly please ponder upon Bhai Gurdas Ji vaar on Gurmantar 'Waheguru' have been explained by Bhai Gurdas ji as follows:

Bhai Gurdas ji Vaar
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

The true Guru of Dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
In the the Treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
In Kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered, The jiv merges again in its origin.


and secondly in Kalyug kirtan rules mate nothing else:



ਕਲਜ੝ਗ ਮਹਿ ਕੀਰਤਨ੝ ਪਰਧਾਨਾ ॥ ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖਿ ਜਪੀਝ ਲਾਇ ਧਿਆਨਾ ॥
ਆਪਿ ਤਰੈ ਸਗਲੇ ਕ੝ਲ ਤਾਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਜਾਇਦਾ ॥੬॥

Kaljug mėh kīrṯan parḝẖĝnĝ. Gurmukẖ japī▫ai lĝ▫e ḝẖi▫ĝnĝ.
Āp ṯarai sagle kul ṯĝre har ḝargėh paṯ si▫o jĝ▫iḝĝ. (6)

In this dark era of Kalyug, the singing of Kirtan is king, the Gurmukhs sing it with their minds focussed.
you save yourself and all your clan and go to the Lord's Court with honour. (6)


During Kirtan, music does not remain a mechanical structure of sounds but becomes a divine way to grasp the Infinite Reality. It reveals the mystery of the Holy Name not through the intellect but through the heart. It checks the ego, the vagaries of the mind and the senses and uplifts the human soul. Says Guru Amar Das:

ਝਸੀ ਕਿੰਗ੝ਰੀ ਵਜਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ॥ ਜਿਤ੝ ਕਿੰਗ੝ਰੀ ਅਨਹਦ੝ ਵਾਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Aisī kingurī vajĝ▫e jogī. Jiṯ kingurī anhaḝ vĝjai har si▫o rahai liv lĝ▫e. (1) rahĝ▫o.
Play that harp, Yogi, which vibrates the unstruck sound current, and remain lovingly absorbed in the Lord.(1)Pause.
(SGGS p908)


ਗੀਤ ਰਾਗ ਘਨ ਤਾਲ ਸਿ ਕੂਰੇ ॥ ਤ੝ਰਿਹ੝ ਗ੝ਣ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਦੂਰੇ ॥

ਦੂਜੀ ਦ੝ਰਮਤਿ ਦਰਦ੝ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਛੂਟੈ ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖਿ ਦਾਰੂ ਗ੝ਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੩॥

Gīṯ rĝg gẖan ṯĝl sė kūre. Ŧarihu guṇ upjai binsai ḝūre.

Ḏūjī ḝurmaṯ ḝaraḝ na jĝ▫e. Cẖẖūtai gurmukẖ ḝĝrū guṇ gĝ▫e. (3)

All other songs, tunes and rhythms are false.

Trapped by the three qualities, people come and go, far from the Lord.
In duality, the pain of their evil-mindedness does not leave them.
But the Gurmukh is emancipated by taking the medicine, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. (3)

(SGGS p832)

ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ ॥੪॥੧੦॥੫੭॥

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

There is only one Vaheguru and he is ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ, only accessible through the Guru. There is only one Satguru who is Guru Nanak Dev jee and there is only one Gurmat.

Therefore, Vaheguru is only accessible through Guru Nanak Dev jee and his Gurmat updesh, and he can only have one True name.

The same way that your mother may call you by many different names that explain your different qualities like Sonu, Laadh, Makhan, Puth, or any other nickname, it does not change your true name. Same way although different people may call Vaheguru by different qualitative names, he only has one true name.

Guru Sahib makes it very clear that Guru Nanak Dev jee is "ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ" therefore, his updesh, Gursikhi, is also the greatest. And the Naam which is given in Gursikhi, is Akal Purakh's true name. By reason of deduction, it is beyond a doubt that Gurmat Naam is the greatest Naam and the only way to fully access Vaheguru.

Preetam Singh

All deities, prophets and all other "big shot" beings and personalities of non-Sikh faiths do dandaut matha tek at the charan of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj.

There are only 4 religions - Sikhism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. Don't consider Jewism, Jainism, Buddhism as religions. I was told this by Brahamgyaani saint. All 4 religions are true, Only their relevance differs in this age. Sikhism is most up to date, and it contains shortcuts. Those who failed to attain salvation but showed great desire in previous human birth get reborn into a Sikh family.

^ How can you say that, just because these are one of the most popular religions doesn't mean that they are all true.
We as sikhs only know one thing; Sikhi is the best!
respect oher religions but don't embrace them