Taksal-AKJ - Pyar

Daas had the good fortune to speak briefly with Gyani Thakur Singh ji from Taksal who is doing katha tour in England.

Daas asked him if they had done darshan of bhai sahib Randhir Singh ji they replied no but they that they regularly visited bhai sahib's pind Narangwal and that they met those who had done sangat of bhai sahib. Gyani ji said that there was indeed pyar between bhai sahib and Giani Gurbachan Singh Singh ji because they both were both bandagi wale and were beyond the five vices.

Gyani ji mentioned in katha that Sant Kartar Singh ji used to hold jor mela's at Mehta and used to invite all sampradas and jathebandis including AKJ. They requested bhai Fauja Singh ji and Jatha to do rainsbai at Mehta. Bhai Fauja Singh replied it would be difficult because of there Sarbloh Pehra to this Sant ji relpied by saying "how many bate (utensils) do you require". Also Sant ji arranged for a separate tent for jatha at the jor mela. Sant ji said that bhai sahib had to accept his request for Jatha to attend the smagam.

Gyani ji also showed me a picture on his iphone of what I believe was Soora magazine which had picture of Sant Gurbachan Singh ji Bhindranwale and mentioned the barsi at bhindri. I believe jatha did kirtan at barsi samgam of Sant Gurbachan Singh ji.

If some has this soora magazine please could they upload it.

indeed upload if anyone can find such article - why not go one step further why not do as they used to do in the past- why not all sampradas get together for kirtan rehansbahis which could easily go past 1-2 nights and bring inter communication and approach projects together on at least the basic sikhe stuff - expecially targetting the alchol- druig abuse in punab as a bare minimum

Members of all Jathebandis, get along with each other, provided they are Naam Abhyaas Gurmukhs.

Kulbir Singh

indeed Kulbir Singh jeeo -- but please let me dream about all members getting along -provided ther are simple sikhs

Its become kinda sad that putting panthic ekta to one side, we cant even get jathebandee ekta, i think in todays time and age, before we can think about bringing taksaal and jatha back together, we should gather the piece of jatha and taksaal and bring them together, akj has three splits in toronto alone, they have two splits in california. Taksaal has so many little groups in it.

Singhs before co existed really well, because they didnt focus on their differences, but their similarities, they got together and engaged in naam abhiyaas, not quarrels, both jathebandees accepted the fact that we did what we thought was right with the wisdom guru sahib bestowed upon us and didnt hold that against each other.

Daas

Could someone provide more info on the soora magazines.
It would be great if they were scanned and uploaded onto the site.

The jor mela at Mehta and barsi smagams at bhindri must have been amazing. So many sarkaryog gursikhs at one place.

It's better to remain split then to do sangat with Restaurant Eating, Knicker-Wearing, Englandee Pagg Tieing, 5 AM Amritvela "Singhs"

Note that in my previous post, I did not take names of any individuals nor did I point to a specific split.

Why ?

I would love nothing more than to see gursikhs from everywhere do saanj together.

But one must remain steadfast, and outrightly refuse to compromise rehits and other Gurmat based habits and guns for the sake of so called ekta.

A Tankhaaiyaa who
-refuses to respect forget believe in sarbloh bibek pehraa
-deliberately supports padd chedd manmatt simply to annoy Lareevaar Pehraa Singhs
-is dhilla in amritvela
-does nindiya of rehitvaan gursikhs
-wears or allows the bibian of the house/split to wear besharam kapray

Such a person is a dead ghost. One should run away from such people not welcome them with garlands for ekta purposes.

The highest and utmost karam in this duniyaa is to jap naam, read gurbanee, and follow the hukams of satguroo jee.

Any two gurmukhs who follow the above regardless of their jatha, country, or split are endulging in true ekta.

Nothing else apart from that can decipher ekta.

Ekta will come by itself over time, with Dasmesh Paatshaah Jee's Kirpaa, it's bound to happen. Until such a time, it is our duty to follow and obey every hukam of guroo saheb, and not debate or indulge in dubidhaa using our manmatt.

Guroo Saheb Says, Durmat Tyaag Laha Kich Leho

Japping Naam will bring ekta and fulfill any other wish/hope of ours. Our responsibility and priority should simply be increasing our jeevan and avasthaa, which indirectly will give you power and a say if you use your kamayee for panthic improvements.

Hun Vatai Har Naam Naa Beejeyo Agay Bhukaa Kyaa Khaye

Plant the seed of naam, and let go of all other worries.

At death, you shall be alone and your gursikhee jeevan and naam kamayee will go with you, not the people you compromised with for ekta.

Veer Upkaar Singh

I understand what you are saying and i agree with what you say, nothing in this world fristrated me more than the thought of people making a mockery of sikhi. How can people treat sikhi like it is a small thing?!?! I will never understand this. To state thay bana, sarbloh bibek and lardivaar isnt necessary in sikhi is the epitome of kaljyug. But i think calling them "Restaurant Eating, Knicker-Wearing, Englandee Pagg tieing, 5 AM Amritvela "Singhs"" wont get hs anywhere, or anything except the title of nindhak, doing nindhiya of these people on a forum wont acheive anything, infact some of these people might read this forum and might get defensive and start defending their "sikhi", if the gursikhs who followed all the rehits were to go to the other keertans, they might be able to get more people towards the right side of sikhi, remember no one is beyond saving, i have seen patits and the biggest of manmukhs keep hard core gursikh jeevani's, at least the dhilla gursikhs follow sikhi to an extent. All im trying to say is dont give up on the rest of the panth so quickly, as a gursikh it is your responsibility to save the panth from chaos, doing every little thing possible to make the panth more chardikalla. Rest is up to you.

Daas

Bhai Upkaar Singh Jeeo,

You are right in saying one should practice sarab loh bibek, encourage keski and modern dress with women folk of the househould, and support lareedar saroop, but your definition of a tankhiya is simply YOUR DEFINITION of a tankhiyaa. Most jathebandis would not agree nor is your definition visible in puratan rehatnamey or panthic maryada.


Simply put for the most part a tankhiyaa is someone who does not believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and teaching of the 10 gurus, does not accept Khandi DI Pahaul, and commits four bajjar kurehits. People who fall under this category should be avoided but those who show interest to accepting Gurmat lifestyle should be encouraged. The criteria you mentioned is good but still it is incomplete within itself. Its a good stepping stone which we should strive for, but still one who follows those five simple rules cannot be classified as a Gurmukh. Gurmat is sharper then a sword and finer then a small piece of hair only rare gurmukhs can claim themselves to be followers of Gurmat. People change and get inspired through sangat . Ones sangat highly impacts ones lifestyle.
ਭਲਾ ਬੁਰਾ ਦੁਇ ਸੰਗ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥੧੪॥

If we feel someone might be lacking on certain rehats that we have adopted it doesnt mean we should be quick to label them as tankhiyaa and run away from them. We should view them as brothers with the potential to adopt Gurmat lifestyle in due time. Even if a mona comes to sangat we should view them with dastar on their head , and beard on their face with the potential to change in due time. I understand your frustration that people will bend their principles for the sake of ekta this happens to be common in this dark age. I remember some time ago some singh on this forum pm'd me and was crying to me that I should not be critical on manmat maryada for the sake of ekta. I dont think we should practice half baked principles for the sake of "ekta" but at the same time we shouldnt be so quick to judge those who dont have the same rehat as us. People adopt the rehat which they are given at amrit sanchar and rehat they learn from the sangat they keep. If we are to avoid all people who dont keep reat such as Sarab Loh then how will others even learn the benefits of sarab loh who will educate them? According to Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and Bhai Daya Singh Ji (panj pyaarey), part of Sarab Loh bibek is about keep simple diet and staying away from tasty foods ( ras kas) . Should we avoid company of those who have less control and indulge in tasty foods or should we make acceptions due to our own practices?

Siri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is Larridaar Saroop only. Guruship was not given to cheding(spacing) of Gurbanee. Till we're unified under this banner and top priority, I don't see any so-called "union". it may be union in terms of basic friendship, but nothing beyond that.

Jaspreet Singh,

no one, at least not me, is saying that we should support these actions, what i am saying is that, yes they are visibly straying from the puratan and proper path of gursikhi, if the more chardikalaa, gurmat oriented people were to at the very least, be apart of sangat for a little while, then maybe, some people, i'm not saying all of them, but at least some people can see the error of their ways, wouldnt that bring us one step closer to 1, panthic ekta 2, panthic chardikalaa?

Are we really pointing out differences in the panth on a taksal-akj pyar topic?...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I would like to humbly agree 100% with Veer Upkaar Singh Ji, and with regards to taksal-akj pyar; I would like to humbly mention that this would be possible if the Gursikhi identity as mentioned by Veer Upkaar Singh Ji is kept by both; as was pyar amongst Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, and his contemporaries?
Bhul chuk muaf

Upkaar Singh Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> Any two gurmukhs who follow the above regardless
> of their jatha, country, or split are endulging in
> true ekta.


Of course there was pyaar and ekta, Bhai Saheb Bhai Randhir Singh jee, who was known to be very strict, would often pass by the Samagam Mandalee of Sant Gurbachan Singh jee, while he was teaching students of taksaal gurbanee and giving santhiya. Sant Gurbachan Singh jee on the other hand would do mahattam of Bhai Sahebs keertan and would request him everytime that katha shall be held up momentarily while you bless us with keertan. One time, in a state of immense prem, Sant Gurbachan Singh jee wrote a praiseful kavita for "Sant Randheer Singh" which can be found on this forum in an old post.

Both Mahapurakhs, and respective jatheybandiaan were pakay in
-nitnem & amritvela
-naam abhyaas
-rehnee behnee
-took gurmat seriously

Today, seperations have occurred due to compromises in the above listed points. Taksaal & Jatha Alike. If gursikhs were to unite, it would have to be under the umbrella of the above Gurmat Virtues, and we would see panth-wide ekta, not just jatha unisons.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I would like to again agree with Veer Upkaar Singhjio, Akal Purakh Ji's jot fully illumined in Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, and Puratan Sikhs of that very blessed period must be what maintained the strong pyar, close bond, and unity..Waho Waho! what bliss it must be to be amongst them..
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Quote

Both Mahapurakhs, and respective jatheybandiaan were pakay in
-nitnem & amritvela
-naam abhyaas
-rehnee behnee
-took gurmat seriously

Today, seperations have occurred due to compromises in the above listed points. Taksaal & Jatha Alike. If gursikhs were to unite, it would have to be under the umbrella of the above Gurmat Virtues, and we would see panth-wide ekta, not just jatha unisons.

The fact is no matter how much Rehat Singhs keep, modern AKJ/Taksalis, still have a bone of contention on trivial topics as witnessed on this very forum. If we can't get over these hurdles and see a Singh as a 'Singh' the result is superficial and dare I say it fake piyaar. To unite the Panth, Sikhs need a complete and amended Sikh Rehat Maryada, approved by the Akal Takht that satisfies all Jathebandhies. We are unfortunate at the moment that our Takhats are run by Delhi, otherwise this key document could have already been completed.

I agree with Unjan and veer Sukhdeep singh jee 100% spot on .

Name calling as by Upkaar Singh jee above is the problem we have in the panth - we only look at the narrow view nothing else -- prataan Gursikh had pyar not just for Gursikhs wih naam abyaas and Gurmat virtues - but had pyar for everything and everyone on this planet. There is no way such pyar could kill your rehat - what does/kill it is such nindyia as described above.

Jaspreet singh jee- sure thing laredaar saroop is your Guru and mine - i agree sir without a doubt - but do not doubt the power of pad ched either - it's because of pad ched saroop which is viewed as ( Guru jee) by the majority that Sikhi and sikhism is expanding today and has been for the last 50 odd years. Now we have expansion how actively are we invovled in getting laredaar pathi's and lardaar saroops in the Guru ghars we have at present?

dont forget :

"Criticism, like rain, should be gentle enough to nourish a man’s growth without destroying his roots." and "Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting." nothing else.

Pad-ched can never be good.

Nothing good has come out of Pad-ched and nothing can. All the expansion that you speak of is the exact example of what the problem in the Panth is. Too many fake "Sikhs" following a fake "Guru".

There is no Sikhi without Guru Granth Sahib jee. And Pad-ched is not Guru.

Preetam Singh

preetam singh jee Thanks for your comments and misunderstading me . i have no furhter comments for your warped view

Preetam Singh Ji,

Quote

'Nothing good has come out of Pad-ched and nothing can. All the expansion that you speak of is the exact example of what the problem in the Panth is. Too many fake "Sikhs" following a fake "Guru".

Agree Larivaar Saroops should be considered as the True Guru. Much parchaar of Viakaran and where to place Bisrams is needed for this to become reality. Outside of Canada and a few other countries, we don't have parcharaks who are pushing for this to happen as they are not skilled enough themselves.

The ones who genuinely do not know about Larivaar see Pad Ched as their 'True Guru' and Gursikhs have received Partak Darshan or have reached high Avastha through reading Pad Ched bani.

Speak to the average Amrtidhari, and they would not have heard of Larivaar Saroops guaranteed, and even less about many Rehats kept by Gursikhs on this site. Call this bad karams/fate, but it is the truth.

Until this knowledge is disseminated to the wider masses only a select few will read Bani in Larivaar form.

ns44 jee, only those who see truth in the names i used will get offended. Heres hoping you are not one of them.
On a side note, these arnt some fancy terms daas came up with in his free time, these are terms singhs have been using for centuries to describe dhillay lok, who forgo rehit, and are bhekhees.

Name calling is one thing, telling the truth is another.
But both have a common side effect, that being, they are hurtful.
Why not fix it, so nobody will utter a word ?

Gurbani states that will the utmost SHUBH karmaa, one meets the true guroo, satguroo

My interpretation is, yes this refers to pakhandee dere valay saaadh in that given situation
and it means Shree Lareevaar Saroop, as it too as mentioned by Unjaan Jee is found only by rare people.

ns44 jee, i do not see what pride one can have by claiming openly sikhee has been spreading under the umbrella of padd chedd.
What umbrella will that provide that itself is filled with holes ?

Besides, sikhee has never been a numbers game, and never shall it be as such.
Sikhee is about quality, avasthaa and potential.
40 Singhs were enough to wipe out mughal armies.
40 Singhs will be enough once again to win the Lareevaar Morchaa

Personal belief is that pad ched saroop may have got more people aware of Sikhi but it has bought in a whole load of other detrimental Panthic wide issues.

For example:
People claiming to be gianis running Gurdwarai
Losing Gurbani Viakaran understanding
Losing tat Gurmat parchaar
Losing ekta

The concept of Gurbani being easier to read has meant any tom dick and harry who can read Punjabi comes over to the western countries and calls himself a giani. Majority of the Gurdwara problems are related to un-giani like people who claim to be gianis, yet when asked to explain tat Gurmat, they falter, they fail in their job to do parchaar, because they are not gianis, they are people who want a job and to get money.

Would these same people claiming to be gianis come into the “profession” if Gurbani was in Larrivaar? Doubt it! Those serious people interested in Gurbani and its meaning would do the “job” and hence the time spent on understanding Gurbani meaning and viakaran could be disseminated to the sangat. There would not be as many people doing this as a “job” therefore less numbers would mean less people to run Gurdwarai. Less Gurdwarai means communities have to work together more and put ego aside, as opening a new Gurdwara is more of a difficulty if you cant find they “gianis” to run it….

The issue with not many others being well versed in Larrivaar… why don’t we do what we are meant to do and get on with becoming better at reading Larrivaar? Why do we have to wait for others to help us? Have we not missed the point that we are not meant to have a middle man. Our relationship is with God directly, not through a giani…

With pad ched, we have also come to the stage that we now know best. We know better than Guru Sahib who had originally written it in Larrivaar and justify this by saying many other people have got high avastha and darshan from pad ched. It is one thing having the real King gives orders, it is another for someone wearing the Kings clothes and giving orders… Also please have a cursory look at the quality of knowledge of the Singhs and Singhnia prior 1940’s and have a look now. How many of us understand viakaran and Gurmat to the standard of the Singhs of the early 1900’s….? Why and how have we lost this knowledge…?

As we know think we know better than Guru Sahib now, groups have also started to think the same way. Be it Jatha, taksal, nihung dals….etc each one claims to be correct in the pad ched of Gurbani. Each produce Gutkai with their pad ched understanding and explain why they are correct. Gurbani is agam agaad bodh is very rarely said (unless you come to this forum) because everything is pad ched so therefore we know best. The concept of sitting down and discussing from a Gurbani Viakaran point of view is very rarely done. We focus just on rough translations and not on the grammer… all because of Larrivaar being broken into pad ched.

We will never get ekta under the banner of Pad ched saroops. The Gursikhs who will bring ekta will be those who are educated in Gurbani Viakaran and practice tat Gurmat, like the Lahore Singhs from the Singh Sabha Movement. Ekta will not come or be led by those who do not have the Gurmat knowledge or Gurmat lifestyle.

Upkaar Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gurbani states that will the utmost SHUBH karmaa,
> one meets the true guroo, satguroo
>

I agreee -

>
> ns44 jee, i do not see what pride one can have by
> claiming openly sikhee has been spreading under
> the umbrella of padd chedd.
> What umbrella will that provide that itself is
> filled with holes ?

that's your opinion but the proof of is paramount that we have worldwide presence as Sikhs - whether amritdhari/akj/nihung/taksal- we have it at present. I love it and am proud of it whole heartfedly. You love to misunderstand me - and don't want to admit this truth which is right in front of your own very eyes. Now you have it - whether you like it or not - kacha pilla gianis or whatever name calling you have in mind that;s your interpetation - in the end we have resource it has to be dealt with - are you up for it - ? or do you run away from it? do you biuld your own gurdwara and keep all of the others out?? or do you embrace teach and move that community on - what responsibility do you or i have here jee? what didi old AKJ people like Bhai Rama Singh Jee and Bhai Jeevan Singh jee did ? it may help you answer the question

> Besides, sikhee has never been a numbers game, and
> never shall it be as such.

if you look at the past and think it will be the same in the future - that is futile my friend absolutely futile. No one knows the future and can proclaim to be this way or that - tell me who knew about Bhai Balwant Singh Jee rajoana as an example ? Mahraj's ways are unknown even though we love to proclaim this and that.

> Sikhee is about quality, avasthaa and potential.
> 40 Singhs were enough to wipe out mughal armies.
> 40 Singhs will be enough once again to win the
> Lareevaar Morchaa

Oh i know that and i don't doubt it - but all these have to be built - my point is where is the contructive building going on of such points? where is it- it's just talk no one is walking the talk that is my point. The point is all jathebandi;s are responsible for this potential buildng hence this topic - taksal - akj pyarr - what begets me is that these two can't even hold a kirtan diwan together at the moment - so where are we heading sir??

Upkaar Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's better to remain split then to do sangat with
> Restaurant Eating, Knicker-Wearing, Englandee Pagg
> Tieing, 5 AM Amritvela "Singhs"


oh i forgot for your information i was one of these about 20 years ago but moved on in life because of beautiful people from AKJ/TAKSAL showed me a mass of what i was missing and for you information they would never dare utter words of disgust as you have chosen to above. I am utterly shocked that the admins haven't taken note and barred your words.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki Fate

It doesn't make any sense to me to fight about pad ched or larrivaar.. It doesn't make sense to not do sangat of 5 am singhs or nicker wearing or whatever..

My relationship is with me and my guru.. and nobody can change that. I shouldn't look down upon others because they eat at restaurants. In fact I should humbly hide myself to make sure nobody knows I follow anything.

They are all singhs. They have taken amrit from guru gobind singh jee. There is a dhill in rehat.. yes.. Koyee gal nahee. Guru ji kirpa karlaengae.. Ardaas karo panth vaasthae oh singhaa vaastae vi ardaas karo.. Singhniyaa vaasthae vi ardaas karo jee..

I need to follow my rehat.... Yes we need sangat of gursikhs.. Its like I think that we should have sangat of the 2 am gursikhs. Those 2 am gursikhs are the ones that change us. We can't utterly hate anybody that wakes up later than 5 to do nitnem. Because they are doing what they think is right. We cannot change anybody but we can change ourselves.. We can be the best we can be...
Everybody is different. Everybody has a different brain. Everybody has different interpretations of everything......
Everybody thinks they are right and the other is wrong...IF somebody has the belief engraved in their head that they are right.. arguing is going to take us no where. NO piont in throwing diamonds at somebody if they are not going to take them and spend them or invest them...
I think pyaar is what we need to unite the panth. Provided the other jathebhandiyaa are not doing beyadbee of guru sahib..or doing nindiyaa or following fake babaes.. . Provided they follow the bare-minimum standards set by the SGPC.. That is what I think can bring the panth together.
Lets not forget bhai jeevan singh jee and that story.. When he took off his dastar for a mona and gave it to the mona.. I mean thats humility to the max. Thats what we seriously need. Alot of humility. I am no better than anybody else .. This knicker wearing. englandee pagh wearing.. no sangat of restaurant eating, 5 am singhs... isn't going to bring us together...
I feel that we need to respect each other for what we are.. and I think we need to accept the fact their will always be differences in beliefs..
Maybe if we forget our differences and maybe think about the bigger causes at hand. Then that might help. THat might bring unity... The beyadbee of guru sahibi s more important.. than whether if one singh wakes up at 5 o clock or 4 o clock to do amrit vela. The fact of the matter there is beyadbee of guru sahib going on right now.... Anyway...I mean like there were some singhs that woke up at 12 am to do amrit vela.. Im sure they didn't hate the singhs that woke up at 3 o clock.....or 2 o' clock...

Please forgive me if I offended anybody... I didn't really mean to...This is what I think...
Im not goig to post again. So please don't get mad at me.. Then I am going to feel bad.. and be compelled to post again..


Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

Bhai Sahib jee, if my claims are heinous then yours fall under the same category. How do you claim that we are talking the talk and not walking the walk.

Pyareo

The Singhs here:

-are promoting, giving and taking santhiyaa of lareevaar gurbaanee so that we know the paath before we preach
-have handed out flyers of the article written by Master Jaswant Singh jee amritsar.
-Give Pehraa To Lareevaar by fighting for maharaaj's prakash at every program.
-use this site as a means of santhiyaa and pointing out the errors in pad chedd.

I am not sure what you were assuming.

As far as my words of disgust, do tell me what has disgusted you about them.

I have simply described people as they are seen.

If you see a sarablohee singh walking - you will say, I saw a singh with a gol dastaar today, no back larh, wearing bana, white hazooriaa and I saw him eat his own food that he pulled out of his rumala. He looked

The same way, I described those people who indeed, walk around in knickers, eat at restaurants, feel no shame in not covering their body, meanwhile slandering rehit.

So please do tell me since when has it been established, that giving a description using everyday terminology has become disgusting.

The fact remains that the truth is the truth and it will sound bitter to the ears of such people, who have a guilty conscious.

On a second thought to username Singhni and anybody else who is going to comment here.

Daas, or the other singhs on the forum are not haters, nor do we harbor ill feelings towards any individual, regardless of their religion, forget jatheybandee or rehit.

The problem starts when certain individuals, who are weak themselves, will claim sarabloh bibek, bana, lareevaar saroop and all such things as "Uneccessary and not needed" and go out of their way to slander the gurmukhs who follow the above while they promote manmat. If somebody's ear is bleeding with the stuff I am writing here, then they should take note, that our ears bleed when we hear things like pad-ched prakash was done purposely today when lareevaar saroop was available, or sarablohees being called bahmans, and bana wearing singhs being called pakhandees etc. It works both ways, if somebody chooses to or is unable to keep some type of rehit, that individual must be respected and given love without being differed. But when that individual chooses to pass over these things as unnecessary and slander them with labels like bahmanvaad, to satisfy his own guilty and dhilee conscious, then I don't know why they expect VIP treatment.

Daas is not a sarablohee for the records for all readers, yet I have never been told off by sarablohee singhs in any situation. They respect me, because I respect them, the rehit they keep and I strive to become like them.

The changes start when one learns to tyaag the easy way out (manmatt) and accepts gurmat and respects it.

Baakee Bhul Chuk Muaaf Karnee

-Upkaar Singh