Benti from Daas about Wisconsin Incident

Regarding the Wisconsin incident, I urge all fellow Singhs and Singhnis to not waste time participating in any Candle Light Vigils or anything of the sort. I'm not saying that candle light vigils are against Sikh rehat maryada, but we should be focusing more on Naam/Gurbaani and doing ardaas for the victims already in the hospital. Save the wax, go out and become shastar-dhari wherever you are, if that means arming yourself with a gun in the United States or Canada (provided that you are already amritdhari). If you are not Amritdhari and are on the fence about taking Amrit... I urge you to read more Gurbaani daily and find the answer yourself from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This type of event would've been impossible if the Gurudwara Sahib had tyaar bar tyaar Singhs present there at most programs.

We should not be bashing the United States and their gun laws and so on. Instead, we should be able to live there without fear. From what I've seen in my brief time here.. The United States definitely needs more Chardikala Singhs in some areas where there are Gurudwara Sahibs. A status quo needs to be established.

Chardikala vich Raho. Amrit shako, Singh Sajo.
Deg Teg Fateh

Bhul Chuk Muaf

Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fateh

Boley So Nay Haal to above post indeed!
Kran karan sab EK hai, maybe Guru Sahib encouraging us with exactly that action?
Bhul chuk muaf
VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh

Bahut Khoob Furmaaiya hai jee Aap nee.

The same thoughts were coming to my mind since this unfortunate incident. We were shot at like ducks. There should be security by Singhs at all Gurdwara Sahibaan. Imagine if such madman had come to Dixie Gurdwara Sahib or other big Gurdwara Sahib on a busy day, what massacre would have occurred. We should be prepared for such incident by obeying the Hukam of Guru Sahib and becoming Shasterdhaari, at least when we go to Gurdwara Sahib.

Singhs who carry big Kirpan or Safajung (the axe like Shaster) have been facing so much opposition from fellow Gursikhs recently, whereas Singhs carrying these Shasters do so only to please Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee Maharaj and never have any other motive.

Kulbir Singh

Vaheguru

I was also thinking the same thing, gursikhs should start keeping guns on them especially when coming to gurudwara sahib (as long as the law allows it). Imagine if a gursikh in Wisconsin had a gun on them, they could have prevented this incident or at least saved some people. Large kirpans and other shastars will not do much against a gun (but are still good to keep in presence of guru sahib of course). I'm sure singhs in the past kept guns, especially during tense periods. I would also like to hear sangats views on this.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Candle light vigils are an awareness event. They are not useless and draw attention to the Sikh community to raise awareness of who we are. Shastar are last resort when an attack. That whole thing about an ounce of prevention and a pound of cure applies here. People have done Simran/Gurbani Keertan at candle light vigils as well.

Only Kirpans and axes? Guns, crossbows - ranged weapons please.

Perhaps the ancient practice of pehradaars in Gurudwaras needs to be re-introduced. The head of the Sheriff's department provided some excellent tips - hire private security (nothing wrong with Sikhs being their own private security - probably do the job and maintain maryada), know escape routes and do drills as to how to handle this situation.

Inderbir SIngh Jeeo,

I agree with you that we should be vigilant, take Amrit and stay armed, but there is nothing wrong with engaging in candle vigils as a collective community. This Sikh tradition of candle vigils is not a Hindu or Western custom, and goes back to Baba BUddha Jis and BHai Gurdas Jis time.

WHen Sri GUru Hargobind Sahib Ji was released and came to AMritsar he was met with lit candles and sangat singing GUrbani in praise of Sri GUru JI. IN Harmandir Sahib and around the nishan Sahib candles would be lit on four sides while kirtan was sung. Everyday in Ardas we recite CHauki ( four sides) JhUNDDAY ( nishan sahib) BHUNGAY JUGO JUG ATAL Dharam Ka Jaikar..... which is giving reference to this tradition. WHich means may the Nishan Sahib remain high and may kirtan continued to be sung in each Gurdwara.

In old times a shabad of protection was sung and was accompanied with Kirtan (chaukee Shabad). Asa Di Vaar and Sodar rehras are part of this tradition and were traditionally sung in AMrit Vela and evening a time of the day where lights were needed.If American SIkh community wants to light vigils collectively to build stronger communal spirit and unity there is nothing wrong and in fact is part of Gurmat tradition. If we want to come together at night and sing shabads of protection or do ardas outside of the nishaan sahib then there is nothing wrong. We will let people know nothing can scare us from having darshan of our beloved Sri GUru JI.

What is stopping Amritdhari Tyar Bar Tyar Gursikh to legally obtain Gun when the country law permits ????
When they can why we can't ????

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh,
Female victim was metha tekhing before running for life like she was advised, when she was shot...
Sikhnet has excellent posts on tragedy, with even direct link to donation, encouragement, etc>[www.indiegogo.com]
About guns, if Guru Jee did carry gun, then should be alright for Sikhs too, but is fighting fire with fire the solution? Especially with friction within our own community due to conflicting views of what is the kanio tiki path Guru Jee is indicating in Anand Sahib, while my sister's friend who lives in Brampton stated the day before yesterday, she along with many congregation of Dixie Gurdwara don't agree with Amritdhari concept, so she cuts hair, eat meat, frequent all places of worship (though heart is with Vaheguroo)...indicating indirectly I made a mistake with taking Amrit, when I told her 2 days after Khandey Batey Ki Pahul, within me, saw vision of Guru Jee (Gurbani) Sukhasan (3 Gurmukhs, with one waving Chaur over Gurbani) while awake...she replied that she twice had vision of Gursikh in blue Dastaar, and white bana walking towards her, while she was doing Gurbani sewa in one of Gurdwaras in Brampton?
Also, my sister who also cuts hair, eat meat, had vision of Guru Nanak Dev Jee in Buffalo, New York Gurdwara and I had turned to look at her just as she was having this vision, her eyes were just as Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee's in photo of Him smiling, glassy eyes.
Bhul chuk muaf for going off topic, and contradictions toward what is indeed True Sikhi path...but point is my siblings initial reaction to report of Gurdwara killing was internal sangat rivalry, instead of racist attack, due to many Gurdwara issues...
Maybe Naam Shaaster is all the Shaaster we need to pass kanio tikhi path, although I am not abandoning Amritdhari path>[www.rajkaregakhalsa.net]
I did ardas within about confusion about what sister's friend had said, and asked Guruji if indeed release of bondage require none other than Naam, and saw flicker of gold light, so more confused..
Bhul chuk muaf again..Vaheguroo atey Guru Jee Pyare Parwasa
VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh,

Vaheguroo, saw another solitary small grey species kabootar, and white one driving home after work..sure sign of Guru Jee alerting about impending trouble..major supremist attack, as i read years back in article somewhere should they recruit enough support?
Or Guru Maharaj Jee Khalsa Raj tyar bar tyar fauj readiness is being signaled?
Vaheguroo Naam chardhi kala rakha Sikhi panth nu

I really think that naam shastar is not enough.. Although yes it needs to be supplemented with learning martial arts...and learning to defend ourselves from people like this... as saint soldiers I think that spiritually we need to remain strong and have naam shastar.. but as soldiers we need to become stronger.....Yes the path of gursikhi is tough.. But time and time again... we have had to get up and fight for what is right.. What is true.. This is khalsa's duty....
My first reaction to your sisters is that this isn't going to last very long... Without following full rehat...
yes one may have spiritual experiences due to previous karmas..but soon they will wipe away..
We cannot fight anything without naam simran or gurbaani or guru sahib's rehit...but in addition we need to be strong physically..
Everything goes hand in hand I think...
Like if you look at the the 70s and 80s and 90s puraatan sikhs were really strong in naam baani and rehat...
Beyaadbi of gurdwara sahib cannot be tolerated...That is essentially what has happened in Wisconsin. We cannot let that happen again...which is why we need to arm ourselves with both spiritual and temporal strength...

I agree Singhni Jee, as I was thinking of adding to the above post that my sister is psychic (apologise if this is against Gursikhi) since birth, able to see spirits, which she informed me sometimes scared her, so she did ardas to not see any bad spirits any longer. Also, being married to a Sindhi, she only prayed to deities, until I informed her and my late mother of my 1st darshan of beautiful silver light in size of USA dime, on Gutka while doing Sri Sukhmani Sahib Jee in Singapore during my teen years, while I was feeling down after a very hurtful remark my mother made towards me.
My sister told me, feeling envious of my experience she devoted full faith in Sikhi, although she never abandoned her deities, usual lifestyle, actually getting angry with me for not letting her eat meat when she was living with me.
So she started getting darshan of Guru Maharaj Guru Nanak Dev Jee, Guru Gobind Singh Jee, or immense light around Gurbani in Gurdwaras. While having vision of Guru Nanak Dev Jee in Buffalo Gurdwara, she said Guru Jee was advising her to concentrate but due to some sangat talking loudly behind her, concentration was lost.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, that only due to past karam, or karam of family member possibly, as my father was very into Sikhi, a karchi which looks sarbloh of my father's is still in my possession, and my father tattoed Waheguru in Gurmukhi on his wrist to indicate to me his love for Akal Purakh Jee.
Also, one of my mama, left the family in Punjab when in his youth, to devote fully to Gursikhi, so maybe could be blessings upon us due to this mama, or my great grandmother, who my mother informed me was also very into Gursikhi, and had visited my mother (also psychic) after her demise.
My sister actually agreed to consider taking Amrit in Dixie (as I did) next April if she is able to visit us as she plans to, and so is my sister's friend considering, so Guru Jee's Hukam is Khandey Batey Ki Pahul indeed, otherwise the intention would never be there?
For me, just looking at Gurmukh Gems of AKJ, and Gurmat Bibeki (including the young Singhnis who did how to tie a female dumalla video), and puratan Singh/ Singhni Jeeo...especially the diamond like shine in eyes of Sant Bhindranwale, convinces without a doubt, their destiny is bliss in Sach Khand due to their strict Gurmat Bibeki...and all who claim otherwise would be saved but only after doing needed kamai??
Bhul chuk muaf Vaheguroo Jee atey Vaheguroo Jee Parwasa, for posts above doubting power of Gurmat discipline
VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh

So easy to criticize - the candle vigil - the best we're at is criticism and that is it- that is the modern sikh unfoding - instead - why can'tyou just acknowledge it was an effort of some sort whether it didn't agree with your mindset?

Security - yep an issue - our Golaks are filled enough to hire proper sia guards 24*7 at every Gurdwara - no need to take the law into your own hands - of course I don't mean not to carry shasters and guns as we always should -

I am involved in Gatka classes at my local and i can tell you with my hand on my heart 95% of the sikhs haven't a clue how to use the Kirpan they wear if the need arised apart from just lunging it at the opponent.

Defense classes - fitness classes - weapons training all should be in every Gurdwara - let';s keep this thread open till it happens in your local - at present the situation is up in the air and at discussion points worldwide in Gurdwaras without a doubt.

VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh,
One of online reports about tragedy, states that Gurdwara President shaheed Satwant Singh fought off attacker with butter knife (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wis-temple-shooters-motives-16954689)?
Our Gurdwaras are to be open to all, thus it would be impossible to know if any visitor has sinister motive? cameras and alarm security would be a more appropriate option?
With regards to us not being able to use Kirpan; if we indulge in loud Naam Simran, as Sant Harnam Singh Jee does (deep breath taking) while saying Wahe... then Guru, which is also method taught at Dixie Gurdwara Sahib Jee Amrit Sinchar, Guru Jee Himself will empower us accordingly, as He did when I almost got attacked by German Shepherd dog 3 times my size, on my way to school in my youth, and I yelled WAHEGURU, while Sant Jee only needed WAHEGURU NAAM to ward off many evil that attempted to attack him while he attempted to rid Rampur Khera of evil spirits!
My concern is more the immense beadbi to Gurbani Jee as a result to evil attacker's deeds...how about Path that was interrupted, and now sewa of Gurbani Jee being denied with Gurdwara being taped off, while investigations ongoing??
Bhul chuk muaf
VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:

Quote

-------------------------------------------------------
> Inderbir SIngh Jeeo,
>
> I agree with you that we should be vigilant, take
> Amrit and stay armed, but there is nothing wrong
> with engaging in candle vigils as a collective
> community. This Sikh tradition of candle vigils is
> not a Hindu or Western custom, and goes back to
> Baba BUddha Jis and BHai Gurdas Jis time.
>
> WHen Sri GUru Hargobind Sahib Ji was released
> and came to AMritsar he was met with lit candles
> and sangat singing GUrbani in praise of Sri GUru
> JI. IN Harmandir Sahib and around the nishan
> Sahib candles would be lit on four sides while
> kirtan was sung. Everyday in Ardas we recite
> CHauki ( four sides) JhUNDDAY ( nishan sahib)
> BHUNGAY JUGO JUG ATAL Dharam Ka Jaikar..... which
> is giving reference to this tradition. WHich means
> may the Nishan Sahib remain high and may kirtan
> continued to be sung in each Gurdwara.
>
> In old times a shabad of protection was sung and
> was accompanied with Kirtan (chaukee Shabad). Asa
> Di Vaar and Sodar rehras are part of this
> tradition and were traditionally sung in AMrit
> Vela and evening a time of the day where lights
> were needed.If American SIkh community wants to
> light vigils collectively to build stronger
> communal spirit and unity there is nothing wrong
> and in fact is part of Gurmat tradition. If we
> want to come together at night and sing shabads of
> protection or do ardas outside of the nishaan
> sahib then there is nothing wrong. We will let
> people know nothing can scare us from having
> darshan of our beloved Sri GUru JI.

True. But it's interesting to observe the differences between Indian and western traditions. For example:

-In western tradition they light candles when they mourn while in Indian tradition it would be considered disrespectful to light candles and devaas during the time of mourning because in Indian tradition candles/divaas are traditionally lit to commemorate something good/happy like when 6th Guru came out of jail and arrived at Amritsar.
-Western tradition they wear black when mourning, in Indian tradition white clothing is worn.
-In western tradition they uncover the head to show respect while in Indian tradition the head is covered to show respect.

Quote

-In western tradition they light candles when they mourn while in Indian tradition it would be considered disrespectful to light candles and devaas during the time of mourning because in Indian tradition candles/divaas are traditionally lit to commemorate something good/happy like when 6th Guru came out of jail and arrived at Amritsar.
-Western tradition they wear black when mourning, in Indian tradition white clothing is worn.

Veer Ji I think you are mixing up Indian tradition with GUrmat. In GUrmat there is no such thing as a bad and good occassion. All times are good in GUrmat and lighting candles to pay respects to those who lost their lives in the GUrdwara Sahib is not a sign of mourning. The concept of mourning does not exist in GUrmat. Sri GUru Ji has given hukum to his Gursikhs to not mourn a persons death. I purposely wear dark blue at funerals to break the old age manmat belief that such colors are not accepted in the funerals. Gursikhs can wear any Khalsa color during funerals.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Veer Ji I think you are mixing up Indian tradition
> with GUrmat. In GUrmat there is no such thing as
> a bad and good occassion. All times are good in
> GUrmat and lighting candles to pay respects to
> those who lost their lives in the GUrdwara Sahib
> is not a sign of mourning. The concept of
> mourning does not exist in GUrmat. Sri GUru Ji has
> given hukum to his Gursikhs to not mourn a persons
> death. I purposely wear dark blue at funerals to
> break the old age manmat belief that such colors
> are not accepted in the funerals. Gursikhs can
> wear any Khalsa color during funerals.


Hanji Veerji, I purposefully wrote Indian traditions instead of Sikh tradition because Gurmukhi tradition does not have to necessarily correspond with Indian traditions. Nowhere did I say Sikhs should "mourn". It was you who wrote that lighting candles is in Sikh traditions but I thought I should however point in what context lighting candles is/was done in our history i.e. to commemorate something good/happy (like when 6th Guru was freed from jail).

Whether eastern or western, we can take good traditions from both sides.

Now that this sad massacre of Sikhs happened it should be enough to open our eyes. We need to start training in self defense and carry Shastars. The Kara for example is a very useful Shastar. If one wears a Sarbloh Kara that can be used as a good Shastar by placing it in front of the knuckles which can make one's punch much more powerful.

Not too long ago Sikhs were known as good fighters. Now we are known for unfit bodies and over grown tids. We need to start exercising and get practical combat training. If your country's law allows it, then one should also try to get a firearm because times ahead may not be too friendly to visible minorities like Sikhs and you don't want to get caught defenseless. Besides, Shastars of are the true Gehna and Shingaar of a Mard.

Yesterday sangat across America came together in honor of those who were killed in the GUrdwara Sahib. I was surpised with the turnout at my local Gurdwara Sahib. I call from a small rural town which doesnt have a big Sikh population. Most of the time sangat come to the GUrdwara on a SUnday only. But yesterday lots of sangat came. The towns police chief, mayor and chancellors were also invtited and expressed their grief and support.

I have known one uncle ji for almost 20 years and everytime I have seen him he was always clean shaven, but yesterday he had a short beard and a dastar. After these events not only are AMericans waking up to the light of SIkhi but even those within our own community are starting to wake up from this world of Maya.

SatSriAkal,
With another Sikh killed in Wisconsin, maybe Sikhs should also pay close attention to their activities in the following link:
[www.bing.com]
Also, the FBI is claiming to-date, no information on Gurdwara attacker page versus detailed information about movie shooter? Any idiot would know to check the phone, internet, etc activity of page to discover his motive, and affliated group's past, current, and future motives?
So if Sant Bhindranwale was here today, he would say let's arm ourselves with Gurbani maryada, and preparedness to attack the enemy head-on by reading all we can about their motives, since the laws of the western countries strangely not doing their jobs...and get armed/ skilled to use such arms?
Gursikho, if this was india how would you react, let us apply same standards of demanding for proper justice, protection, and thorough proper investigation/ feedback about the Gurdwara attacker?
These supremist groups exist in California, Ohio, Texas, Wisconsin...Vaheguroo only knows where else...kran karan sab Ek Hai, also if Gupt Sikh could do ardas, and take Hukamnama to humbly know what is Guru Ji trying to communicate to us, with such happenings? Is it a shortcoming on the part of what affected Sikhs not living according to His Hukam?
Khalsa School in Canada having swastika spray painted is indication that they are targeting the youth of Khalsa there, so vigilance is truly needed all over?
Bhul chuk muaf
VahegurooJeeKaKhalsa,
VahegurooJeeKiFateh