Multi-Faith Initiatives

Yesterday I was invited to come to the Knox Presbyterian Church Waterloo to speak about Multi-Faith Initiatives and to engage in dialogue about Sikhi and it's view on Christianity. The discussion was with Christian ministers from about 35 churches around the GTA and the Waterloo/Kitchener/Guelph area. There were also ministers from the ministries on the Guelph University Campus.

A few years ago the Sikh community in Guelph wanted to build a Gurdwara in the south side of the city and there was a very strong backlash by the majority Christian residents. This dialogue was aimed at working towards having the Churches in the area, namely the Presbytery in taking part in greater Multi-Faith Initiatives to allow the different communities to work harmoniously for the greater good of allowing all religions protection and the right to worship and follow their religion freely.

One of the main concerns of the ministers was that by engaging in Multi-Faith dialogues they felt that they would also be saying that all religions are correct and their convictions in Jesus Christ did not allow them that liberty. I could totally relate to this feeling because as a Sikh it is impossible to say that any other religion is truth.

Sach can only be one, if there is more than one truth then that means that there is dubida. Dubida cannot be truth, it is the exact opposite of what Sikh teaches. So where do Multi-Faith dialogues fit into this picture?

By engaging in Multi-Faith we should have the ability to say that what we believe is truth and all else is false, and still work together for the common good. After explaining this to the ministers there was a very good reaction of acceptance and willingness to work with other communities within the Guelph area.

It is so disappointing when Sikh speakers at Multi-faith events say that Sikhi accepts all religions as truth. This is a totally hypocritical statement. Why would someone choose Sikhi if all other religions are truth as well?

We must always proclaim the supremacy of Sikhi and the mehima of Satguru, and not be shy in doing so.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਡਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਡੀਆ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ॥

Preetam Singh

I can understand it from their perspective but from Sikhi perspective there could be multiple truths without dubidha as the level of truth can be based on the distance one could see. E.g. Christianity & Islam mostly believes Heaven & Hell as the end goal... it could be truth as Karma can give you heaven and hell without any sprituality. However if we look beyond them to all the other khands and especially Sach Khand, only Gurmat Naam can get you there... so Sikhi is truth till Heaven & Hell where other religions can also see and it is also truth beyond where other religions can't see.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Interesting...the local multi-faith group here essentially established a rule that one could explain about their faith, but could not make statements against any other faith (saying that other religious paths are wrong would fall into that category I assume). Do understand that every faith is going to say the same: Ours is the best/only path to salvation/etc, so arguing over it would never result in anything positive. It is a agree to disagree policy and move on. Having read some scriptures of other faiths, it is a position of great respect that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is one of the few (only?) Divine texts that provides advice to the entire of humanity. The rest are focused more on their own faith or group and provide some limited selections of Divine insight for humanity, but not at the level of Guru Sahib.

That said, personal observation has been that perhaps it is not that the other religions are incorrect, but that their objectives are completely different from Sikhism. Sikhism has been one of the few (only?) religion that emphasizes and focuses on union with the Almighty as the ultimate destination and certainly unique in its insane passion-crazed love of the Almighty stance of the Husband Almighty Lord and the Enamoured Human-Sikh wife. I don't believe that there are other faiths that have made this the final destination or at least, have not make it the prime focus of their faith, much less outline simply and plainly the how. Some may argue that certain texts of Hinduism do share the same objective (possibly Upanishads?), but the subject texts are so complex and convoluted in comparison (couldn't get past the first few pages of translation before giving up) to Gurbani that reaching the objective is improbable/impossible. Some talk of being free from materialism, but never speak directly of the Almighty (Buddhism). So on, so forth. Sikhism, in comparison, seems much more complete, simple (not to be confused with easy) and natural. Of course, I could be biased by association -

Raaj Na Chaoho, Mukht Nah Chaoho, Man Preet Charan Kamalaarae - this is an ideal that I have not seen in other religious texts.

Declaring supremacy - I don't believe that is something that should be verbalized, but rather be reflective from our actions and how we conduct ourselves. Sikh history is not filled with Sikhs making such declarations - rather, the enemy itself praised Sikhs instead by observation and interaction with them and provided validation of their lofty status amongst humanity. Though I will agree...a Sikh should refarin from making statements that all faiths are a means to the same end, as that would be untrue.

No doubt we should always believe in the supremacy of Gurmat in our lives. In addition, we should never shy away from declaring Gurmat as supreme. However, on the same token, we need to bare in mind Gurmat is a priceless Gem. Not every person is a merchant of this gem. This gem can only be purchased by genunie seekers who offer everything for this gem. If we try to sell Gurmat to people not willing to offer anything the price will cheapen. Meaning Gurmat will get watered down. For example, nowadays we have many Gursikhs prosletyzing Sikhi. They tell people Sikhi is not about rules and rituals; instead, Sikhi is just about loving God in your heart. This was similar to message of Apostle Paul when he did parchar of Christianity. Nowadays you have thousands and thousands of denominations of Christianity and none of them celebrate the traditions and basic teachings of Jesus and the early Christians. Likewise we have many Paul-like Gursikhs preaching Sikhi to a non-buying masses. They are offered Amrit and Sikhi at an extremely cheap price. They are not asked to offer anything, and for this reason the plant of Sikhi gets watered down. Only a few Gursikhs are willing to do Parchar of Tat Gurmat.

When having religious dialogues amongst those that are set on believing their religion is the truth and the rest are false we should simply paraphrase Bhai Gurdas Ji and state:

" The title of ones religion in like the color of a flower. WHen the flower dies the color eventually disappears . Meaning just by claiming we are a Sikh, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim etc does not guarantee us any security in the next life.In the next life our deeds are weighed not our religious titles. Looking like a Gursikh or claiming to be a Gursikh does not gurantee one entrance in the Gurus city after death If we do not pracitce according to the teachings of our Guru. As Sikhs we simply believe God exist within the traditions and teachings of our religion. As a Christian you may probably believe the same. A Christian cannot go to heaven just by calling himself a Christian. If they do not love their neighbor, if they slander others, and they do not pray to God can they be guranteed a seat in Heaven? "

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥
ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥
ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥
ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

Let me give my 2 cents quickly.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee during Baghdad visit said there are Lakhs of Mandals. Local population opposed saying Prophet Mohammed had said there are only 10 (not sure what was that number) Mandals, so how can you say there are Lakhs of Mandals.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee replied that Prophet Mohammed was not wrong and was not telling lie. His Awastha was till 10 mandals so his truth was till 10 mandals. My Awastha makes me see Lakhs of Mandals and this is my Truth. Guru Jee proved it by taking Pir's son ... (you all knows that Sakhi).

If you take worldly example then there are 2 seated planes, chartered plane, domestic planes and then there is a Boeing. All planes has their own limit and capacity of flying. Hence, each plane has its own Truth it is own domain.

Sikhs are not here to do Ninda of any Religion. Like various aeroplanes (mentioned above), various Religions have their capacity and truth. Finally, Nanak Naam Jahaj has such limit and capacity which is beyond anyone’s comprehension. This is the supreme Truth.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

More equipped with information, one is; easier and comfortable will one feel; to discuss it with others. So, one needs to know, how GURMAT is different ( I am avoiding the word "better" here) from ANNMATs. Once I know it and I am convinced about it; I am ready to face others.

Why tell others, that we are better? It is always difficult to speak like that. We can simply state the facts and let others judge it themselves.

Do we have, in a brief, tabular form, the information about different aspects of a religion and how Gurmat stands different from others. Please do share, if you have that. It will help everybody.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[sikhs.org] - A possible quick reference on comparison of religions. No in depth, but a very quick similarity/difference listing between various faiths and Sikhism.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਰਾ ॥੧੩॥

Harmeet Singh jee,

When other religions are asked the question what is the goal of this human life, they say to go to heaven. This is the wrong answer, and we know this because Guru Sahib said that darshan and sachkhand are the goal of the human life. Therefore, the religions that proclaim this are wrong, and that is why they are false religions.

Of course this is not to say that there are no truths in any other religion. Christianity is right in that there is a heaven and hell, but truth must be full, it cannot be lacking and that is why other religions are not the true religion. Take for example the claim that Jesus Christ is God or the son of God and the whole point of Christianity being to follow Jesus Christ. This is false and will not give you complete salvation as Christianity claims.

The difference with Sikhi is that Gurmat accounts for the efforts of other religions and says that they will get what they work for, but Guru Sahib also proclaims that these other mats are still stuck in maya and are false.

Please read this article by Bhai Kulbir Singh to understand further: Gurmat compaired to other religions

Preetam Singh

Take for example the claim that Jesus Christ is God or the son of God and the whole point of Christianity being to follow Jesus Christ. This is false and will not give you complete salvation as Christianity claims.

We as sikhs also have similar assertion about GURU SAHIB JI. So it seems they are justified in saying so.

ms Veer Ji, that link is good. It will be still better, if we put it on a single page.

Just to be clear when Sri Guru Ji went to Baghdad he was not concered with the Islamic Law and the way of the Muslims. He sung Sri Jap Ji Sahib early in the morning. During this time Baghdad was under Wahabbi rule and "music" was banned. Secondly, Guru Ji offended them even more through his call our for prayer. He did not use the name of Muhammad in his address instead he said Gur Bar Akal Sat Sri Akal , Chit Charn Naam...

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to be clear when Sri Guru Ji went to Baghdad
> he was not concered with the Islamic Law and the
> way of the Muslims. He sung Sri Jap Ji Sahib early
> in the morning. During this time Baghdad was under
> Wahabbi rule and "music" was banned. Secondly,
> Guru Ji offended them even more through his call
> our for prayer. He did not use the name of
> Muhammad in his address instead he said Gur Bar
> Akal Sat Sri Akal , Chit Charn Naam...

I think he said the mool mantar.

Satguroo IS Vaheguroo enshrined into a roop we can distiguish.

Jesus is not God, he is the self proclaimed son of God.

In gurmat, often sikhs are confused as to Satguroo & Vaheguroo as being different deities.

It sort of makes no sense, because once we become Sach Khand Vaasee we ourselves merge with the jyot of Vaheguroojee.

So how can Satguroo be another deity?

ਗੁਰੁਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁਪਰਮੇਸਰੁਆਪਿ||

The Guru is the Supreme Lord God; He Himself is the Transcendent Lord.


Can gurbani make it any clearer ?

-Upkaar Singh

According Kavi Santokh Singh jis Sri Guru Ji recited the verses Gur Bar Akal Sat Sri Akal , Chit Charn Naam. Before these verses Sri Guru Ji recited some arabic words which were similar to the Islamic Shahada. The only difference is Sri Guru Ji only praised Sri Akal Purakh and did not mention the name of the prophet. This outraged the public. I wrote these verses down somewhere but I cant find them now. Whenever I find them I will post.

I know Kavi Santokh Singh Jee said that. But isn't Gur Bar Akal, Chit Charan Naam bani of 10th master? I remember a Kathakar once saying that 1st master did Baang of Mool Manter OR the tukh ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ to which the Muslims felt offended since that is not what their prophet said to them. When they were coming armed with stones to attack, Guru Jee began to sing (the mool mantar I think) in such a way that they were left speechless and motionless where they stood.

Well regardless, at least we can agree that Guru Jee did baang of Bani. What is shocking is that Ignorant missionaries like Ghagha who have no knowledge of Islam thought Guru Jee did Baang of the Shahaada to which kulbir singh jee proved him wrong in the debate video. Why would Guru Jee say the Shahaada, by making such an ignorant statement, Ghagha is unknowingly saying that Guru Jee accepts Prophet Mohammaded as his prophet making Guru Jee a Muslim. May Vaheguru save the Panth from these ignorant dasvi paas fake professors.

Just to be clear Im not saying Sri Guru Ji recited the Shahaada of Muslims. According to Kavi Santokh Singh, Sri Guru Ji recited arabic words which were similar to the Islamic shaaada. Meaning Sri Guru Ji praised the one true God, but he did not mention Muhammads name. this offended the Muslims. When I found this call out for prayer.

I have not read the Sakhi about Bhagdad for sometime and I cant remember the detials. I do remember the mention of GurBar Akal Sat Sri Akal , Chit Charan Naam.. verses which also are included in Sri Jaap Sahib. From what I can remember Sri Guru Ji was at a grave outside of the city of Bhagdad. Mardana started playing the rabab, and Sri Guru Ji started singing Sri Jap Ji Sahib.

Quote

Jesus is not God, he is the self proclaimed son of God.

In gurmat, often sikhs are confused as to Satguroo & Vaheguroo as being different deities.

Actually , Yeshua (Jesus) did not claim himself to be thee son of God nor did he claim to be God. Many years after his death Christians portrayed Jesus as both Father-God and Son of God. Today many modern day Christians unfamiliar with the orginal bible mimick such claims. In the the bible, Jesus did not say he was "the son of god " he said he was the " son of man" The bible interpretted this to mean the son of God. But what Jesus meant was he was the son of man. According to the Abrahamic faiths the first man was Adam. Jesus was born in the House of David which claims unbroken lineage to Adam , and previous prophets would make such claims as being the son of man. Meaning they come from the lineage of Adam.

Gursikhs often confuse the words SatGuru or Guru Nanak in Gurbani. For the most part these words are referring to SatGuru ( Gurshabad) the spirit and light of Sri Guru which existed before space and time. They are not referring to the body or historical character of Pehli Paatshah, because as Gursikhs we are meant to worship SatGuru ( Guru Shabad) and not get fixated on body or historical personality of Sri Guru JI . For this reason there can be no difference between SatGuroo and waaheGuruooo as they are one and the same. They were from the beginning, presently, and to the end.

Sukhdeep Singh Jee, even if Jesus said he is son of God, nothing wrong with this statement. After all, we are all the sons and daughters of God. Who can deny this fact. So if Jesus called God his father, we know he wasn't lying since you and me are also sons of God. The most confusing part of Christianity is their concept of Trinity. How they claim to follow one God yet also make the claim God is God, Jesus is God and Holy Ghost is God. That is 3 and 3 cannot add up to one.

rsingh jee, no doubt we are all the children of god, but the christians take the quote out of its historical context. they claim jesus is "thee" son of god meaning he is the one and only son of god. i dont see how christians cannot get depressed over this concept?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
The following, from Se Kineya, would be excellent to be presented at multi-faith seminar; should they be more receptive; which is never true although they may say so>
JESUS CHRIST, MOHAMED SAHIB AND BHRIGU
RISHI JI APPEAR IN A VISION
One day Baba Ji was in deep meditation when Jesus Christ,
Mohammed Sahib and Bhrigu Rishi Ji together, appeared before him.
Their faces were radiant and had spiritually bright auras around their
heads. After blessing Baba Ji with this vision Hazrat Mohammed Sahib
Ji spoke, ‘‘You are blessed and truly fortunate to whom Guru Nanak
Dev Ji has shown the direct and easy method to attain enlightenment of
Almighty God especially in this age of kalyug. The followers of the
Great Guru Nanak Dev are not deriving the full benefit of his teachings.”
After this, Bhrigu Rishi Ji spoke, ”In our times, we had to
undergo hard penance and rigorous spiritual austerities in order to achieve
enlightenment. The whole life of a man was spent in meditation and
making offerings to God and even then, union with God was hard to
achieve. The true nectar of naam which great Guru Nanak Dev Ji has
brought for his Sikhs is remarkable; even we could not obtain this boon
of naam. No doubt we amassed great spiritual and miraculous powers
through rigorous meditation and penance, including powers to curse or
bless anyone, but we were still deprived of the nectar of naam.”
Jesus Christ just said simply, ”It is my inner desire that my
followers one day adopt the path shown by great Guru Nanak Dev Ji.”
Saying these words, all three prophets disappeared.
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I feel Jaskirat jee is 100% spot on :

Sikhs are not here to do Ninda of any Religion. Like various aeroplanes (mentioned above), various Religions have their capacity and truth. Finally, Nanak Naam Jahaj has such limit and capacity which is beyond anyone’s comprehension. This is the supreme Truth.

Sikhe is so high - it's ready to defend any one belonging to any religion regardless of it bein low or high as Maharaj Guru Teg Bhadar Sahib jee sacrifice for the Hinduism.

In a way true ns44 jeo,
with regards to existence of other religions in their respective spheres, but I would like to humbly add that, it is also true that denial of Gursikhi as being supreme, is the cause (and will remain so) for all suffering of non-sikhs, non-practising sikhs (which will also no longer exist when Gurujio King ends creation), so I don't believe letting all know about this truth is ninda, but it is saving them (from more suffering now, and the fires of torture/ darkness...for eternity in hereafter), as per Hukam of Gurujio, and Gurbani?
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Since the Source and Cause of the whole Creation of the Universe is ONE WORD. This ONE is the common point in all faiths.
Its interpretation downthe line goes on varying and creating differences in viewing and interprating this ONE only.
Therefore in interfaith discussions the most stressing point is this ONE Which is "THE WORD" only.
Thus "THE WORD" is the base foundation of all faiths.

From Gurbanee one can learn the significance of "SABADu" The Word .This is THE TRUE WORD being refered
thru out Gurbani.One can understand a Quote as
"SATi GuR SUKh VEKHALEA SACHA SABADu VICHAR"

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga

Satnam Waheguru is One and there can be only One Truth, and not many prophets, gods, truth...as even today's Hukanama affirms, only when all creation accepts this One Truth can there be peace, unity, brotherhood of mankind, and fatherhood of Satnam Waheguru, as is message and One purpose of One Savior for all, Guru Nanak Devjio, and today Guru Granth Sahibjio, and this is my perspective of Truth about all religions.
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Hi Satnam Hai!

[www.youtube.com]

The WORD GuROO as GuR Ka SABADu is refered JAGAD GuROO. And this is Universal...........................


Bhul chuk Maaf


Daas

Prakash.s.Bagga

SSA friends,

I would like to add my humble view on the issue of differences between Sikhism and Semitic religions of Islam and Christianity. I have often seen that in Sikh magazines and Pamphlets (even online as the link above somewhere) a very superficial comparisons are done by touching on topics such as practices, laws, status of women etc. The main point of differences -if one wishes to make a real and deep comparison- are seen in the fundamental and originating concepts of the religions and not in later manifestations such as laws and meditative practices and social norms and culture and its implications.

The basic differences between Gurmat and these religions are:

1. The concept of Original Principal, God or whatever one may choose to call it.
2. Ideas regarding the Creation of the Universe
3. Ideas regarding the state of the Originator after the Creation vis-a-vis Creation and its maintenance and destruction
4. Ideas regarding human beings and other creatures, their origin, their place and their evolution
5. Ideas regarding relationship of human beings and the Original Principal, God, Allah, Param-Atma or whatever
6. Ideas regarding the problem of human misery, its cause, its diagnosis, its prognosis
7. Ideas regarding possibility divine attainment, experience, the future or the PROMISE of a religious path ( very important)

These are the 7 points which in my view are the FOUNDATIONS of any religion found on the planet Earth. These 7 points or aspects are indispensable when it comes to comparing Gurmat with these religions. Everything else comes later. And if I may be bold and say this: the seventh point is the most important Even if everything else is ignored, the phala, the fruit, the final state is the most important and vital point which establishes the difference between Gurmat and all other religions.

I wish to add other things but I do not want to decrease the focus on these points therefore I shall leave this at this.

Forgive my indiscretion

Mystical23 ji,

I fully agree to your points for comparision of various faiths.
Thre is thus need for elaboration of these points for attaning more clear and better understanding of comparision vis-a vis.
But I find is that Gurmat views from Gurbanee are very specific and clear on all these points.and how far one can grasp
their understanding is important consideration.

Bhul chuk maaf

Daas

Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash and Mystical,
If you both agree on point no. 7 of the 7 points (which is Sat in Gurmukhi), and that Jagat Guroo (as per Prakash Singh?) is universal, because Guroo of earth is Guroo of all, and forming a union with the creator of all is everyone's Promise, then you should also agree that all religions should therefore respect Sikh 5k symbols of Jagat Guroo, and not expect Amritdhari Sikhs remove Kirpan en flight or remove Dastaar at work/ school/ sports; because removing any of these 5ks even during shower, is deemed upon that Amritdhari Sikh to have defaulted in our solemn pledge of allegiance to Jagat Guroo...and this thought is causing emotions of anxiety, disappointment for this amritdhari hopeful...; as I assume it causes all other religious followers when doubt is placed upon their religious sentiments, thus leading to civil friction/ terrorism/ violence, but unlike other religions, an Amritdhari Sikh besides keeping 5ks glued to one's physical being, is also expected to keep unglued 5 vices (kam, krodh, loh, moh, ahankar), unlike other religions, so there GURSIKHI IS UNIVERSAL, A GREAT PROMISE BUT SURELY UNIQUE AS WELL!!!!!
Bhul chuk muaf Vaheguru