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Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?

Posted by rsingh 
Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?
June 05, 2012 10:26AM
Is Guru Nanak Dev Jee(and other Guru Jees) considered Vaheguru? or are they messengers of Vaheguru? I've always thought that the Gurus were avtars of Vaheguru, but Guru Gobind Singh Jee writes that who over calls him God will end up in hell. So please explain this concept of Guru. How would I explain this to a non Sikh who asks me what the Gurus were: God or messenger?
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According to the top Sikh theolgians namely Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Nand Singh Ji, and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji pehli paatshah was a Bhagat of WaaheGuru and became no different then WaaheGuru after he recieved gurgaddi after intense bhagti. Puratan Janamsakhis also confirm this and mention that Bhgats in other Khands such as Sant Prhalad use to refer to Sru Guru Ji as "Nanank Tapa" meaning Nanank the Bhagat who does lots of Bhagti. In the first vaars Bhai Gurdas Ji mentions how Sri Guru Ji did tons of Bhagati and eventually recieved WaaheGuru Gurmantar from Sri Sach Khand.


ਪਹਿਲਾ ਬਾਬੇ ਪਾਯਾ ਬਖਸੁ ਦਰਿ ਪਿਛੋ ਦੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਾਲਿ ਕਮਾਈ। ਰੇਤੁ ਅਕੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਰੋੜਾ ਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਕਰੀ ਵਿਛਾਈ।

ਭਾਰੀ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਵਡੇ ਭਾਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਬਣਿ ਆਈ।ਬਾਬਾ ਪੈਧਾ ਸਚਖੰਡਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਪਾਈ।

While in WaaheGurus Dargah, Sri AKal Purakh told Sri Guru Ji that the whole world is suffering due to their karma. They have forgotten God and thus they reap the seeds of sorrow because when people sufffer only then they do they remember God. Sri Guru Ji saw the whole world burining in fire and requested Sri Akal Purakh Ji to free the burning masses from their bad karma. Sri Guru Ji said " Merciful creator. You are the father of all creation. You always look after your creation. You are seperate yet you have an interelationship with your creator. Only through your grace can the people be saved.

Sri Akal Purakh was extremely satisfied with this response, and blessed Nanak with naam. Sri Guru Ji took Amrit and he became Ek Mikh with Waaheguru. Akal Purakh exalted him and said whoever worships you will be worshipping me. Through Naam your path will flourish. Because of you each and every home will become a Dharamshaal where kirtan is sung. He then said, "Those Gursikhs that meditate on Naam and Sing my praises will be protected and they will not have to face Dharam Raj" ( JanamSakhis) This conversation between Sri Guru and Sri Akal Purakh took place during the recitation of Kirtan sohila.

This is why we do Naam Abhyiaas and Kirtan Sohila evernight . For the upliftment of the panth and the escape of Dharam Raj.
ਜੈ ਘਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਆਖੀਐ ਕਰਤੇ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥
ਤਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਸਿਵਰਿਹੁ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੋ ॥੧॥
ਤੁਮ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕਾ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ॥
ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੋਹਿਲੈ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


To avoid all debates I have just given a brief account and explanation. Obviosuly Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a historical document explaining history of Sikhi so Sri Guru Ji is AKal Purakh when defined in Gurbani. But before recieveing Gurgaddi , Sri Guru Ji was a bhagat of Akal Purakh. This topic has been discussed before. You can read and come with your own conclusions.

[gurmatbibek.com]
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My goodness Sukhdeep Singh not again!
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Re: Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?
June 05, 2012 02:23PM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I asked within and Salok Mahla 9 was the answer>
[www.sikhiwiki.org]
PLEASE NOTE >ਨਾਮ੝ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਾਧੂ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਹਿਓ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ੝ ॥
Nĝm rahi▫o sĝḝẖū rahi▫o rahi▫o gur gobinḝ.
The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains.

bhul chuk muaf Gurujio..hum andley (http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/Gurbani/Amrit_Kirtan/tr_0305.html)
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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Thank you Sukhdeep Singh Jee for your reply,

in your post you said that Guru Jee did a lot of Bhagti and then was chosen to become Guru. The narrative I grew up with is that when the entire world was suffering in sin, then many prayed to Vaheguru to relieve them of their suffering. Out of compassion Vaheguru Jee sent Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee. Even though Kaliyug is considered the most sinful yug, but it is also considered the greatest Yug simply because this is the Yug when Guru Nanak Dev Jee came in physical form.

So Guru Nanak Dev Jee was born a Guru. He unlike others did not have a Guru (maybe only Vaheguru can be considered his Guru). The confusion I am having is that: is Guru Nanak Dev Jee a messenger or is he God. Because I have heard many say Guru is God (maybe out of Shardha, I'm not sure). But many say he was a messenger sent by Vaheguru.
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Bhai Sukhdeep Singh jeeo - please explain this pangtee from SGGS:

"aapp narnaaayan kaladhaar jug mahe parveroooo"
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gsingh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My goodness Sukhdeep Singh not again!


smiling bouncing smiley
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It was comforting reading Sukhdeep Singh Ji's praise of Guru Nanak Dev Ji smiling smiley
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Re: Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?
June 05, 2012 06:34PM
rsinghjio,
Gurujio Himself has answered your question in Salok Mahla 9, that only Gurujio, and His Saints will remain when creation comes to an end, so why doubt further? If there was a God above Gurujio, then would have been mentioned in this Salok??
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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I will try to keep it as brief as possible. Word Satguru in Gurbani is used for the Sikh Gurus and Waheguru only. No one else can have this status. Guru and Waheguru are in union. Gurbani says that there is no difference between God and Guru.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਵ ॥

Bhai Gurdas Ji says:

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਇਕੁ ਜਾਣਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ॥ (Vaars)

Being same means being united. Whether Guru and Waheguru are identical, it is dependent on the context. So I would say with certainty that Guru and God are the same meaning they are united. Within Satguru, light of God shines fully. This is why Satguru can unite humans with God as well. Further, Satguru is not a human because Satguru being one with God is free from death and birth. This means Satguru Is not a physical body but the very message that is revealed.

The term messenger in Semitic and Sikh traditions is interpreted differently. Satguru has all the powers granted by God. Satguru is always in union with God and therefore anything He preaches comes to pass as revelation. The communication link is never broken or interrupted. Satguru never speaks out of ignorance or acts against the true path. He is always in tune to Waheguru’s Will. Revelation through him is not passive and he is certainly not serving as a mere tool for the deliverance of the divine message. Guru Sahib says He is speaking as God is directing Him meaning that the source of revelation is God and the message is not diluted or altered in any way. Satguru is perfect and practices the truth whether the revelation has come for humans or not. He never sins, does not hate and is fearless.

Mohammad, for example, was never in direct communion with God nor was he united with Him. This is why in Islam union with God or even His vision is not possible. Islamic God is separate from creation. Even in heaven, the unity does not exist though the souls become eternal. Mohammad allegedly received messages through Gabriel. He made mistakes which were corrected by supposed revelation. A messenger in Islam is someone who receives messages passively. Mohammad always waited for Gabriel to bring the injunctions which means Mohammad remained ignorant of the very religion he was supposed to preach as much as anyone else until Gabriel brought to him the instructions. This means, Mohammad committed sins. Although Islam says their messenger is exempt from punishments but it however implies that he committed sins. Hence, he was not perfect and was a human. He also did not have any special powers granted to him. He again relied on Gabriel to guide him through obstacles. He engaged in anti-Islamic practices until he was corrected or the new injunction was supposedly revealed.

Satguru is more powerful than any other messenger, prophet or avtars who derive their powers and miracles from Satguru. No power, magic or spell can influence Satguru while this is not the case for messengers, prophets and avtars. No one can deceive or cheat Satguru but there are many incidents which prove that Mohammad, Rama Chandra and Krishna were deceived. Satguru has no enemy but messengers, prophets and avtars do. Satguru emancipates all and seeks welfare of all but messengers, prophets and avtars do not. Satguru has control over five vices but others do not. This is a very brief summary of differences. The bottom line is: Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Satguru who is perfect and one with God all the time. From this I hope you can derive something to explain how messenger in Sikh tradition is different than a messenger in Semitic traditions.

When exactly did Guru Nanak Sahib become Satguru is a whole different topic. Gurbani, Vaars and eminent gursikhs believe that Guru Sahib was Satguru from the very beginning (not 1469). Bhai Gurdas Ji says when Guru Sahib came He was a Satguru.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਮਿਟੀ ਧੁੰਧ ਜਗ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਆ॥

Bhatts say:

ਤੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਆਪਿ ਆਪੇ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ॥

This means that Guru Sahib is Satguru throughout all times. Words ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ in general sense refers to entire time span of the creation.

Bhai Veer Singh in Guru Nanak Chamatkaar states that when Waheguru created creation, before it He created Satguru. His logic is that since Waheguru is perfect, His plan of creation must also be perfect. He created suitable environment and necessary elements like air and water for life to thrive on Earth. Therefore, for emancipation of creation, it follows that He must have created or appointed a Satguru prior to creation. In other words, life on Earth requires air, water and plants for survival so God created these before life began on this planet. Since Naam is the only medium for salvation and it cannot be obtained without Satguru, Waheguru appointed/created Satguru before creating the entire creation. This makes His plan perfect. There are so many reasons and proofs to show that at the time of Guru Sahib’s advent He was a Satguru which explains Him revealing Gurbani at a very young age and Him not adopting any Guru or not practicing anti-Gurmat lifestyle. Bhai Randhir Singh states that a Satguru can be appointed by either Waheguru or Satguru. No one can self-appoint himself. There can only be one Satguru at a time and He came to be known as Guru Nanak Sahib on this planet. The same light is spreading Naam in other khands.

I have not discussed sakhi of conversation of Guru Sahib with Waheguru as it requires comprehensive discussion and is beyond the scope of this topic. Pauri Sukhdeep Singh has quoted to prove that Guru Sahib was a bhagat only in the beginning is interpreted differently by scholars. You can read Bhai Veer Singh and Dr. Trilochan Singh’s viewpoint on it. But both do believed that Guru Sahib was already Satguru when the conversation took place. Bhai Randhir Singh too does not state anywhere that Guru Sahib used to be a bhagat only. Again, this is a different topic and requires a lengthy discussion some of which has already taken place. Guru Rakha
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The positions of Vaheguru and Satguru are different for the sake of this creation but the occupants of these positions is one Entity. There is Vaheguru the Sirjanhaar and then there is Satguru that is the Guru-form of Vaheguru jee Himself.

To the worldly eye, there is the Deity Vaheguru and the Shiromini Bhagat - Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee but in essence, Vaheguru jee has kept himself within the Entity of Satguru and thus Satguru is Vaheguru and Vaheguru is Satguru, so much so that Vaheguru is accessible only through Satguru because He has placed himself in Satguru:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਪੁ ਰਖਿਓਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥
(He kept Himself in Satguru and has declared this out in open).

Vaheguru is Maryada Purshottum and does everything through a process. Having established His Guru form, He first had Satguru do intense Bhagti through Naam. What a incomprehensible concept it is. The Deity, the Worshipper and the instrument used to worship - Naam - all are Vaheguru Himself but such is His Maryada that before giving Naam to the world to deliver it, Satguru had to do Sidhi of it Himself. This is what is meant by that Pauri of Bhai Gurdaas jee - ਪਹਿਲਾ ਬਾਬੇ ਪਾਯਾ ਬਖਸੁ ਦਰਿ ਪਿਛੋ ਦੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਾਲਿ ਕਮਾਈ। ਰੇਤੁ ਅਕੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਰੋੜਾ ਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਕਰੀ ਵਿਛਾਈ। ਭਾਰੀ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਵਡੇ ਭਾਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਬਣਿ ਆਈ।ਬਾਬਾ ਪੈਧਾ ਸਚਖੰਡਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਪਾਈ।

This aforementioned Pauri should not be interpreted as Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee being a Bhagat and then getting elevated to the status of Satguru. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee is Aad-Satguru i.e. Satguru from the beginning. Before doing the Sidhi of Naam, He was the Satguru and also the Satguru afterwards.

The Hukam of Gurbani is to praise Satguru as Vadda:


ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਡਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਡੀਆ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ॥

Are we praising Siri Guru jee as Vadda, when we call Him a Bhagat only? Surely Satguru jee is a Bhagat too but not just a mere Bhagat but He is the creator of billions and trillions of Bhagats.

As far as we mortal beings, His dogs, His Sikhs are concerned, Baba Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee is Vaheguru. Period. Satguru Nanak Dev jee is greatest of all. Period. We should leave the Semitic thought of hesitating in praising Satguru as Vaheguru. There are numerous Pramaans in Gurbani to prove that Satguru is Vaheguru and Vaheguru is Satguru.

Kulbir Singh
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ਪਿਤਾਕਾਜਨਮੁਕਿਜਾਨੈਪੂਤੁ||
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Re: Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?
June 05, 2012 09:32PM
Boley So Nay Hal! Bhai Kulbir Singhjiosmiling smiley
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rsingh jeeo thanks for asking the question -- Gursikh veer jeeo thanks for answering - such beautiful answers absolute beauty
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Great posts by Bijla Singh jee, and Kulbir Singh Jee. I request admins to put both of their posts in the literature sections of this site. I actually agree with what you say. But when I read the following tukh from Dasam Guru Jee's Bani I get confused:

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥
ਮੋ ਕੌ ਦਾਸ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਜਾਨੋ ॥ ਯਾ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚ ਪਛਾਨੋ ॥੩੨॥


Whosoever shall call me the Lord, shall fall into hell.
Consider me as His servant. In this do not have any doubt.


[www.sridasam.org]

How to you explain this Gur Farmaan which is saying to us not to consider our Guru as Parmeshar.
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ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਸਗਲੀ ਥੀਤਿ ਪਾਸਿ ਡਾਰਿ ਰਾਖੀ ॥
ਅਸਟਮ ਥੀਤਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਜਨਮਾ ਸੀ ॥੧॥

ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲੇ ਨਰ ਕਰਤ ਕਚਰਾਇਣ ॥
ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਕਰਿ ਪੰਜੀਰੁ ਖਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰ ॥
ਓਹੁ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਰੇ ਸਾਕਤ ਢੋਰ ॥੨॥
ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ ॥
ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥
ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥


Sri Guru Granth Sahib Page # : 1136


Daas is not sure if these paudis in ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧ shed some light on the original question.
One of the Puraatan Singh Ji had said that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee's Jyot or Prakaash had entered a little later after the baby was born to Mata Tripta Jee. This means that Akal Purakh is "Akaal Murat and Ajooni". The same theory applies to Kalgidhar Patsha Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. The Jyot or Prakaash enters a bit later (maybe after a Second, Microsecond or Picosecond ). Only Guru Jee knows the real Algorithm.

Nirgun Swaroop is Father (Akal Purakh) and Sargun Swaroop is Son (Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji).

Daas Khima Da Jachak Hai.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
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Guru Sahib did not want His Sikhs to start idolizing Him and worship Him because such would’ve implied that Guru Sahib is a separate entity. Many Sikhs these days paint pictures and make statues of Guru Sahib because they do not understand that Shabad is the Guru not the physical body. This is why Guru Sahib warns Sikhs that no one should consider Him a God lest some start idolizing Him and worship his physical form. The quote doesn’t change the fact that Guru and God are one Jot. Guru is not a separate entity in any way. There is a sakhi that when Guru Gobind Singh Ji declared that He would be leaving his body, some Sikhs jumped to grab His feet but they could not. When Sikhs asked, Guru Sahib replied that His physical body was not the Guru nor should they ever think that the physical body is worthy of adoration.

Take an example of Muslims. They claim they worship Allah only who is one yet they always praise Mohammad separately. Even though they consider Mohammad a human but due to his supposed prophethood, his name is always recited in Kalima. Such an association itself is shirk. In Guru Nanak Chamatkar, Bhai Veer Singh writes an interesting conversation that took place between Guru Sahib and a Muslim saint. To put it briefly, Guru Sahib said that God is one and except one there is nothing else. Muslim agreed but also said Mohammad is the messenger. Then Guru Sahib asked, “If there is only one then how can there be two?” His point was that praising Mohammad separately goes against the Oneness of God. This is exactly Guru Sahib wanted His Sikhs to avoid.

Sikhs only worship Vaheguru. He is one with Satguru but worship of Satguru separately is against Gurmat. Guru Sahib did not want Sikhs to ever hold physical body of any importance. Jot of Satguru comes from Vaheguru. Therefore, worship of Vaheguru is inclusive of worship of Satguru. Sikhs bow to Guru Granth Sahib Ji because it contains Shabad. If one was to put together a book with same size and number of pages as that of Guru Granth Sahib Ji but not write any Shabad in it, it would not be of any value to the Sikhs because it will not have the Jot. Paper, ink, binding etc. becomes sacred because of the Shabad. Similarly, physical body was bowed to by the Sikhs as long as it housed the Jot and as soon as it was passed over to the next successor, the Sikhs did not bow to it anymore. On similar lines, Guru Gobind Singh Ji (as a historical personality) should not be worshipped because such amounts to holding Him distinct from Vaheguru. I hope this makes sense. Bhai Randhir Singh has also discussed the quote. I think the book is Naam Tay Naam Da Daata Satguru. But I will have to check to confirm.

I have heard from a companion of Sant Kartar Singh that he used to say that the Jot of Satguru did not enter the womb of Mata Tripta Ji. It waited outside and as soon as the physical body came out, the Jot entered it. Guru Rakha
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Bhai Bijla Singh Jee, could you please shed light on the sakhi of conversation of Guru Sahib with Waheguru?
Even though it seems to be beyond this topic and requires lengthy discussion (as you have mentioned), it would be very helpful.
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ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥

Baba Ishar Singh Kalera did a very interesting meaning of this Pankiti. The meanings done are emotional meanings and not necessarily in accordance to Viyakaran. He says that "all those who call us God will be away from hell (Narak Kund)". He has interpreted the verb "ਪਰਿਹੈਂ" as "ਪਰੇ ਹੈਂ" i.e. away. The problem with this meaning is that firstly, Guru Sahib would never make such a statement about his own self; secondly the presence of ਮਹਿ does not allow us to derive this meaning. In any case, the intention of Baba Ishar Singh was only good.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has done the meaning of this Pankiti somewhere and basically he has written that Guru Sahib has always promoted the worship of Vaheguru. Guru Sahib did not make us chant "Dhan Guru Nanak" but made us chant the Naam of Parmeshar. When Guru Sahib gave us the Quomi Jaikaara, He did not ask to so say "Jai Guru Gobind Singh" or anything of this sort but gave us Hukam to say "Sat Sri Akal" which is glorifying Vaheguru. Guru Sahib wanted us to worship Vaheguru and not start considering the Punj-Bhootak body (body of 5 elements i.e. the physical body) as God, as it happened with Hindus who worship Siri Krishna as God.

Vaheguru is the Guru-form but whole of Vaheguru did not become constrained in the body of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee or other Guru Sahibaan. The omnipresence of Vaheguru did not suffer when the Guru form of Vaheguru - Satguru - came in 10 forms. In order to avoid the Sikhs from making the mistake that Hindus made by considering the physical body of Siri Krishna as God, Guru Sahib instructed us to not call Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee as God.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh
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Again many thanks to Bijla Singh Jee and Kulbir Singh Jee. Now I understand this Gurmat concept more clearly.
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Re: Is Guru Jee Avtar of Vaheguru?
June 08, 2012 12:29PM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Bhul chuk muaf Vaheguru
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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It is important to understand onething very clearly that the correct word is VahiGuRoo and or Vah GuRoo (the word GuRoo is always with a matra of Dulakad under the letter R of the word GuR)
By mentioning so I dont intend to offend anyone but this is a common error committed in writing this word in Roman script for Gurbani words.

Now it would be equally important to understand the reference meaning of the words Vahi/Vah GuRoo.The word GuRoo is for the Entity and the words Vahi is transitive Adj and Vah is Adj.,.

From Gurbani we can learn that Vahi/Vah GuRoo is the reference for A SINGLE WORD of GuR......... {.In Gurbani we usually come across this reference as GuR Ka SABAD(u)}

Further we can learn from Gurbani that GuRoo takes the birth...We should look this quote ..."Dhan so Jananee Dhan So Pitaa Jin GuRoo
Jania Maai"

But the question how GuRoo takes the birth when at the time of transfer of GuRJoTi ,tranferer and trasferee both are present.This is a Unique
Concept of becoming GuRoo in Sikh lineage.

But in the above context it is Obvious that all GuRoo are AVTAR of VAHi GuRoo and even SGGS ji is also an AVTAR of VAHiGuRoo only.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas
Prakash.S.Baggad
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