Strict Bibek

Coming back to the question of eating from Sarblohi Bibekis only, for the most part, 99% of times, it is not okay to eat from ones who don't keep Sarbloh but keep Bibek. We know that Sarbloh is a Rehit of Guru Sahib and if someone deliberately does not keep this Rehit, then we ought not eat from them. It is only in some extreme case, where due to ignorance or some other huge majboori, someone does not keep full Sarbloh but keeps full Bibek, that you may eat from them.

This Daas at one point used to propagate that eating from non-Sarblohi Bibekis is okay as in days of Bhai Sahib, it used to be allowed but practically Daas had never eaten from a non-Sarblohi Bibeki. Then few years ago, came a time, when for the first time, Daas had to eat from a person who was not a Sarblohi but a full Bibeki. Only I know how much pain I endured eating that day. I felt like throwing up and had extreme feeling of neusea all the time. That is when I decided that this person would be the last non-Sarblohi Bibeki from whom I would eat. That person is a Sarblohi now. Guru Sahib did great Kirpa. But never again; it was affirmed. Rest is in Guru Sahib's hands. We can make no firm claims (Daava). May Guru Sahib keep His Eye of Grace, and allow us to keep Rehit all life.

Anand is when we keep saanjh of eating food with full Rehitvaan Gursikhs including Sarbloh Bibek. It is very hard to keep full Bibek without Sarbloh.

Kulbir Singh

Sat Sri Akal Jaskiratji,
read links you posted after my reply
to you, bibeki is strict discipline after Amrit
which will wash off karam done in ignorance
prior to Amrit I assume?
What if one is unable to adhere after taking
Amrit, not due to lack of discipline but inability
to purchase bibeki cooking ingredients and having
to rely on closest indian grocery store for Golden
temple atta, castor oil etc, please?
bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Tera Sab Rachna

GurmanSingh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gulab Jaman and Kheer are the same thing
> basically, they both contain LOTS of Sugar, and
> are fattening, which is why I'm guessing many
> people think it is taboo.
>
> I read in a Sakhi that for Guru Har Rai's Sahib
> Ji's wedding Gulab Jaman and other sweets were
> distributed but i cannot seem to find it. I'm
> pretty sure it was in the book "Episodes From
> lives of The Guru's" Will post when i find.


Gurman SIngh Jeeo I have never heard of the book "Episodes From lives of The Guru's", but if you are claiming Guru Ji does not encourage simple diet and does not oppose tasty diet then your really wasting your time. Read Gurbani, rehatnamey, and Bhai gurdas jis vaars the diet of a Gurmukh is simple. WHere there is indulgence in wordly raas where is the indulgence in naam raas?

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Gurman SIngh Jeeo I have never heard of the book "Episodes From lives of The Guru's", but if you are claiming Guru Ji does not encourage simple diet and does not oppose tasty diet then your really wasting your time. Read Gurbani, rehatnamey, and Bhai gurdas jis vaars the diet of a Gurmukh is simple. WHere there is indulgence in wordly raas where is the indulgence in naam raas?

Veer Sukhdeep Singh is correct in pointing out that Guru Sahib's Hukam is to not indulge in worldly Rass and to seek Naam Rass. Having said that, it is also a fact that eating Ghulab Jamun or Laddoo, or Barfee etc. may be indulging in worldly rass but is not a Kurehit. Eating Ghulab Jamun or Samose or other tasty foods cannot be equated to eating non-Bibeki food which is a Kurehit.

Eating non-Bibeki food i.e. eating from hands of non-Rehitvaan people is a Kurehit that makes one fall from the status of a Rehitvaan Gursikh but eating Ghulab Jamun or a Samosa that is cooked by a Rehitvaan Gursikh according to Gurmat Maryada of Bibek does not make one a Kurehiti. The result of indulging in worldly Rass will be that one's mind will not attune to Naam that much but if one persists in Naam Abhyaas and also eats tasty food, that sooner than later, one loses interest in tasty foods. This is a natural side effect of Naam Rass.

So to find solace in this notion that since some Sarblohi Bibekis are eating Ghulab Jamuns and Samose or Barfee, and thus indulging in worldly Rass, so it is okay for me to eat from non-Rehitvaan, is not a wise thing to do.

Eating Ghulab Jamuns or other tasty foods is not a Kurehit but eating from non-Rehitvaan people is a Kurehit. The two should not be mixed.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Kulbir SIngh Jeeo,

With all due respect I would not be so quick to judge those AmritDhari Gursikhs as "dhillay people" just because they dont subscribe to your dietary practice and interpretation of Sarab Loh Bibek. Everybody has different interpreations of Bibek and untill there is consensus within the Gur-panth none of us have the right to label others as rehatless, kurehiti, weak etc just because they dont follow our brand of Bibek.

People follow BIbek differently . For example, I have heard SInghs in Toronto believe burninng milk which was obtained from a Nigura is accepted as Bibek. When I inquired about this from a local SIngh in California he laughed and said such modern standards were never accepted in puratan times nor are they accepted in India this is merely an invention from Toronto. But does this mean Toronto SInghs are "dhillay people" or kurehits and all roti beti da sanjh should be avoided with such people? No, of course not. Try to understand everyone lives in different circumstances. Tornoto SInghs cannot keep a cow in their backyard like Indian Singhs. Bhai Sahib could not eat only from Sarab Lohis while In jail due to his circumstanes. A 16 year old kid who takes Amrit and has non sarab lohi parents cannot subscribe to such standards.

OFten we are quick to look down on others understanding of Bibek, and with a sense of superiority we start to think our brand of Sarab Loh bibek is the best . Part of sarab loh bibek consists of sharing food , eating simple food, and not storing food in sarab loh material yet none of us are quick to push this part of the rehat due to our own weakness. Do we get to pick and chose what aspect of bibek we want to follow and regards those as rehatless who dont focus on one aspect of Bibek. Once again none of us live up to the puratan standards, and none of have the right to degrade fellow Gursikhs by regarding them as Kurehiti just because they dont subscribe to our dietary practice or interpretation of Bibek. When we dont eat from someone automatically we are labeling them as kurehiti. If someone follow the rehat of their panj, and adheres to panthic maryada we cannot label such brothers as kurehiti. There are many Shaheed SInghs who have given their life to Guru Ji and did not follow the diet mentioned on this thread but who would ever dare label them as "dhillay people"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I have a question about having to serve family who have converted to another, eat out, etc. and other family members who believe in mediums, other religions, eats meat...
Will it be a kurehit to use same sarbloh to serve such member/ members (who I can't seperate from due to having control of my bachi?), or should I keep sarbloh items used for this member seperate, please. What about the dishwashing sponge? Or are we allowed to use this?
I will be the only member of family attempting Amrit, and Sarbloh.
My other question is what is Bibek, please?
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

ps. my mother and me were served by some Gem Gurmukhs during visit to Red Fort Gurdwara years back. They were dressed like Punj Pyarey, and the most senior Sikh was waiting for my mother and me, and halted us as we were leaving without taking langar. Food had no taste, very simple, but that is probably why I have been so very blessed by Gurujio since?

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With all due respect I would not be so quick to judge those AmritDhari Gursikhs as "dhillay people" just because they dont subscribe to your dietary practice and interpretation of Sarab Loh Bibek. Everybody has different interpreations of Bibek and untill there is consensus within the Gur-panth none of us have the right to label others as rehatless, kurehiti, weak etc just because they dont follow our brand of Bibek.

I have mentioned again and again about not eating from non-Rehitvaan people and did not talk about my own personal brand of Sarbloh Bibek. The criteria is very simple - to eat from Gursikhs who don't eat khula i.e. who eat only food cooked by Rehitvaan Gursikhs, and eat in Sarbloh. If someone eats from Rehitvaan Gursikhs for the most part but then eats candies or eats occasionally from outside, or eats from non-Dastaar people etc. then that is a dhil.

About milk, Singhs in Toronto had a Gurmata many years ago and that is what's being followed. If Singhs in California or elsewhere do a certain thing, in a majboori, and under a Gurmata, then it would be acceptable. Little and immaterial differences, here and there are okay but not major stuff like eating from non-Dastaar people, non-Bibeki people etc.

Kulbir Singh

I had a glass of milk served to me by Mata Preetam Kaur Ji, the wife of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale.

I'm not sure if it was a dhill, or a kirpa.

Please forgive me for my ignorance in advance and going off topic.

It was my understanding that there are 4 Bujjar Kurehits listed in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. Are there sub or minor kurehits as well and if so what are these?

Just as with the SRM, I also agree that some standards should be adhered to or agreement reached about what constitutes bibek, if it is not clear to the wider Panth. I'm certain most people who are Sikhs even if Amritdhari have not heard of these terms. So education is key.

Unjaan Singh Jeeo,

Yes there are smaller kurehits as well. Professor Pyaara Singh Padam has a book titled " Rehatnamey" which includes all the rehats. BHai CHaupa Singh is the most desciptive in explaining kurehits.

Another thing, the term "eating from bibeki's who eat from bibeki's," is very misleading. This causes people to think that Bibek is something complicated and we have to check the background of everyone we eat from to see if they "eat from bibeki's, who eat from bibeki's who eat from bibeki's" and so on.

In reality, A bibeki is only that person who eats from Bibeki's. If he does not follow that rule than he is not a true Bibeki. Thus there is no complicated process of finding out a person's history, all that one should really be asking before they eat from someone is "do you follow Rehit Bibek", if the answer is yes, than you can eat from them.

Thus, the phrase should really just be "eating from Bibeki's."

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Kulbir SIngh
Giani Harbhajan Singh jee that we are concerned with is a companion of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and totally believes in Keski as a Kakaar. You are mixing him up with someone else.

THanks for the correction BHai Sahib. I was accidentaly mixing up Giani Harbhajan SIngh Ji with Giani Harbans SIngh Ji I must have read the name incorrectly on VIVEKs post.

Sangat jeeo:

Guru Sahiban took around 270 years to preach Sikhism - we cannot to expect to understand it in one life form - Impossible i think - my personal opinion.

We have to accepte everyone is at a stage of Sikhe in their life.

Guru Sahib's Jee's ideology, theology and principles are light years away ahead of mankind is that fact - to all on this forum - if you accept that is a fact really wholeheartedly than there would be no question for anyone sarbloh or not - but to work progressively towards sarbloh if one isn't. I am working towards it myself in a variety of ways as I am not a sarbloh bibek and i have been through threads where I am debated this- the essence and conclusion is - "deology, theology and principles are light years away ahead of mankind is that fact "

Therefore - our duty is to work towards those priniciples- that pyar - that ideology- that simple eating - that simple talking - now please can someone please share especially Gursikhs who transformed to sarbloh bibek - we need more inspirational posts - encouraging Guru Sahibs rehat.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unjaan Singh Jeeo,
>
> Yes there are smaller kurehits as well. Professor
> Pyaara Singh Padam has a book titled " Rehatnamey"
> which includes all the rehats. BHai CHaupa Singh
> is the most desciptive in explaining kurehits.


Sukhdeep Singh Ji

Thanks. I was only aware of the major not minor ones. I'll have to try and purchase or borrow this.

Unjaan

No problem Veer Ji. I reccommend you do buy a hard copy, but until lthen you can view the all the whole book online.

[www.scribd.com]

One point I would like emphaize is while there is such thing as a bajjar kurehit and chhota kurehit the two are still greatly linked to one another. If we committ a chhota kurehit its no light matter and can be detrimental to our Sikhi. For example, before one commits the bajjar kurehit of par estri ( extra martial relations) they commit the chhota kurehit of looking at other women with a lustful eye. If time permits I will explain in greater detail.

Is the online Rehatnama in Gurmukhi
Or english, please?
Also, are sikhs allowed to keep pets like
puppies, especially after taking Amrit?
bhul chuk muaf
Chardhi Kala Waheguru

its in gurmukhi. click on the link

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਚਨ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਸਚਾ ਏਹੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
It is about the Mind not the body, (Sareer, Kaya, Eh Sareer sab mool hai Maya). Most of us get lost in Gurbani-discussion by limiting to sareer. If some on touches one's food platter, it deos not changes the quality of food. These views creates hatred (dubida). Love all, we are all the creation of Akal-Purkh.

Saach Kahoo sunn leho sabe, ji prem kio tin hi prabh payio. Do simran.

Once the mind goes to Nij Ghar via Gur-shabad/manter (waheguru). Find Naam with in and stay connected with that day and night.

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਚਲੁ ॥
ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਸਹਿ, ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ, ਤਾ ਸੁਖ ਲਹਹਿ ਮਹਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Thanks Sukhdeep Singhjio, do you have it
In english. My Punjabi vocabulary is not too
good, though i am attempting to improve.
Waheguru

So "Dass", are you saying that keeping Rehit of Sarbloh Bibek isn't important, and that it only creates dubidha and hatred?
Towards the end, you quoted a Pankiti which clearly tells to remain in Bhana, but Sarbloh Bibek also comes under that.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Well, please petition the Akaal Takht Sahib to modify the Rehat to make all of the Rehats you think are essential to a Gursikh mandatory. Seriously, these posts here go on with no end in sight and it is the same people talking to each other. Are you trying to convince yourselves or others? If its others, please take it to the Panthic platform.

Until then, I don't believe any group of individual has the authority to label any Sikh as dhilla. Even the Punj Pyare incorporating Bau Mal Singh had to release an advisory to the Jatha to not call those "Aam Sikhs" who partake of meat (because it was and is allowed in the Panthic Maryada) as patits. Not making a commentary on the acceptability of meat as a food for Sikh, but I don't dare contradict the decision made at the Panthic level and denounce anyone for not following a Rehat as dhilla unless they are compromising a Rehat assigned to them by the Punj Pyare. Sant Jarnail Singh did not, Bau Mal Singh did not, so who am I? Anyone here at the level of the above Gursikhs that can comment otherwise?

Otherwise, each person is free to do whatever is acceptable/considered holy in their dera/sampardaya/Jatha/Taksal/tthat/whatever and is bound at minimum by the Rehat that is given by the Punj Pyare at their respective Amrit Sanchar.

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Thanks Sukhdeep Singhjio, do you have it
In english. My Punjabi vocabulary is not too
good, though i am attempting to improve.
Waheguru

Sorry but It does not exist in English. Besides translations are nowhere close to the original. Its never to late to increase your vocabulary.

Before Malcom X went to jail he had the vocabulary of an elementary student, by the time he left jail his vocab surpassed most college professors. If he did not understand a word while reading he would look it up in the dictionary and write down the definition. If you dont understand a word look it up in the dictionary or ask someone. You can start with nitnem and move from there. Reflecting,Contemplating, and most of all following Gurbani brings the highest honor.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੈ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪਾਵੈ ਮਾਨੁ ॥

and

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਚਨ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਸਚਾ ਏਹੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

Thank-you Sukhdeep Singhjio, if an Englishman can do it, shame on me being 100% sikh to not know own bolee.
Will surely make the effort then.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I have question about chakla, velnah being in wood, does this have to be sarbloh too?
Also, I have got rid of all my processed food like chinese sauces, green tea, ketchup, but need to know about white flour, cocoa, baking soda, powder, and yeast, please? Which of these would be considered non-bibeki, please?
What about juicer, blender, are these allowed?
On the one hand I look forward to the very simple, bibeki living, but on the other concerned, as feeling sick already from not taking occassional dose of green tea, as Gurujio knows why I can't afford to be sick.
Bhul chuk muaf

KS Jeeo,

THe topic of Bibek has been discussed numerous times on this forum. Everybody has different standards. Some people dont use any processed foods including things like yeast. Others such as myself find processed yeast, salt and pepper ok. Personally I dont see green tea and cocoa acceptable. White flour often contains animal prodcuts. I dont use baking powder so I dont know anything about it.

Thanks Veer Sukhdeep Singhjio,
What about chakla, and velnah? Do they make this in sarbloh? Does the Gurmat store in Toronto sell sarbloh chakla and velnah?

..I have a lifetime of negative energy (and millions of lifetimes karam) to dispose of, so I will be able to maintain and seal Khandey Batey Ki Pahul Amrit blessings, with strict discipline of Gurmat Bibeki, please.
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Nobody has a clean slate and nobody is destined to spend a life of eternity in hell due to bad karma. Taking Amrit is the beginning of Sikhi. Much karma is destroyed during initiation, and the more we follow GUru Jis teachings additional karma gets destroyed. Through the blessings of naam the worsest sinners were liberated. If Guru Ji can save a cannibal then why cant he save us?

Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

thanks Veer Sukhdeep Singhji