Strict Bibek

I had a few questions regarding why some members on this forum keep such strict bibek of only eating from other sarblohis who only eat from other sarblohis? Is it mentioned by Bhai Randhir Singh anywhere in his books?

It is written in Sikh Rahit Maryada that "Sikh dee Roti Beti dee sanjh Sikh nall hovai".
Which simply means Sikh can eat and make relationships with Sikhs only.
And Sikh is one who keeps strict Rehit as it is clear from "Rehit bina na Sikh khavai ...."

That is a nice way of explaining to others why we won't eat from them in order to not hurt anyone's feelings. The reason we are so strict is because we firmly believe that not keeping bibek is a dhill, and something a gursikh should pesh for. If a gursikh has this dhill, then anyone who eats from them also automatically inherits this dhill, even if they themselves don't eat from non-Sikhs.

I am sure someone on this forum will be able to provide quotes from Bhai Sahib's writings to support this, and other great gursikhs have written about this as well. In times of Guru Sahiban, this dhill never used to exist, as Gursikhs strictly ate only from other gursikhs and there was no need to express the requirement of only eating from "only bibekis who eat from bibekis" because everyone used to be a "bibeki".

No bhai sahib did not keep this type of bibek of only eating from sarblohis, well known fact ask any sathi of bhai sahib.
Pretty much all gursikhs, including sarblohis are somewhat dhille in rehit. Look at rehitname and hukums and list down all rehits then you'll find that pretty much noone keeps all these rehits. here are a few:
memorise bani everyday from both granths
learn horseriding
shastar abhiyaas everyday

So it seems everyone is dhilla in some way so pratan gursikhs looked more at how much bani a gursikh had. Discuss this with Bapu Harbhajan Singh.
A gursikh is entitled to be as strict as he wants, but cannot promote a new rehit which bhai sahib himself did not keep, apni personal rehit is fine and good though.
Anyways a gursikh looking for full kirpa should keep sarbloh, but it's a personal choice of level of strictness.

Parupkaar Singh Wrote:
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> I had a few questions regarding why some members
> on this forum keep such strict bibek of only
> eating from other sarblohis who only eat from
> other sarblohis? Is it mentioned by Bhai Randhir
> Singh anywhere in his books?

---

Parupkaar Singh Jeeo you probably missed seeing the Website Heading Itself.

It is clearly written

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

The Home Page illustrate this.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Jaskirat Singh jee, I think Parupkaar Singh jee is not contesting the heading of this website:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

He is just asking where is the Hukam/Bachan mentioned/explained/written that one should only eat from other sarblohis who only eat from other sarblohis.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
What is shastar abhiyaas, please?
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

vivek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No bhai sahib did not keep this type of bibek of
> only eating from sarblohis, well known fact ask
> any sathi of bhai sahib.
> Pretty much all gursikhs, including sarblohis are
> somewhat dhille in rehit. Look at rehitname and
> hukums and list down all rehits then you'll find
> that pretty much noone keeps all these rehits.
> here are a few:
> memorise bani everyday from both granths
> learn horseriding
> shastar abhiyaas everyday



Unfortunately, eating from manmukhs is not a small dhill, it is a very big one. I have a feeling that it was not very common in Bhai Sahib's times for Sikhs to eat from non-Sikhs, so it makes perfect sense that Bhai Sahib could have eaten from most gursikhs of that time. I'm also sure there is not any evidence that Bhai Sahib would ever have eaten from anyone who ate from manmukhs.

vivek jeeo, it seems odd for you to select such a username and yet go against Bhai Saheb when it comes to his bibek.

Veer jee/Bhain Jee, Akaali Kaur Singh jee once said, Jera Ucha Suchaa Sarabloh Daa Pehraa Naa Rakhay, Oh Singh Hee Nahee Haigaa.

Hun Tusee Aap Daso Jee, who are we, to judge Bhai Sahib, Akali Jee, Sant Jee etc etc.

The fact remains that we live in Ghor Kalyug, and regardless of what singhs did, we need our bibek pehraa more than ever.

You are right however in saying, that a Singh can choose to go personally as extreme as possible, which can include wearing bana, keeping hardcore sarabloh bibek, only tieing dumalla, etc.

ks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is shastar abhiyaas, please?

---

KS Jeeo, Shastar Abhiyaas has a deep meaning for which you have to go through Pothi of "Sri Shastar Naam Mala".

But for the time being in simple words it is Practice of Sikh Martial Art or Gatka.
Shastar=Weapons
Abhiyaas=Practice

Hope this helps.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Here are some links from GB which will clear doubts on original question.

Though it may not answer the question directly but try to derive the hidden message in it. Hope this helps.

[www.gurmatbibek.com]

[www.gurmatbibek.com]

[gurmatbibek.com]

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Dhan Jaskiratjio!
Amazing Gursikhi, mold soul and physique to sarbloh strength of Gursikhi, so we will no longer be weaklings of kalyug!

Upkaar Singh ji,

I don't know where you get these views of mine from. I'm a strong believer of sarbloh bibek. I said it is of personal choice of how strict one goes i.e. in terms of only eating from a gursikh who keeps sarbloh bibek. It's a fact bhai sahib did not keep this rehit of only eating from sarblohis, so my point is it is not fair to make this out as a must rehit.
You should phone Bapu Harbhajan Singh ji and discuss this with him, you will find out the reality of how praatan singhs kept their sarbloh bibek. It was not as today where one only eats from sarblohis, but like I said - if you follow this as your personal thing then that's fine.

VahegurooJee,

Every Gursikh who seeks to have khushee from Guroo Saahib strives to keep all the rehits they are capable of keeping. Bhai Saahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee were surrounded by a lot of Gurmukh Junn, who had mutual love for each other and with Bhai Saahib. We can not even imagine reaching their level, let alone having that unconditional pyaar for Guroo Saahib or other Gursikhs without first questioning or having doubts about their kamaaee or Rehit. There are things that you learn from doing sangat of other Gursikhs alone. We are here to do our duty by keeping all the rehits we possibly can keep and then leave everything upto Guroo Saahib. At the end of the day we can only do Ardhaas to Guroo Saahib to forgive us on any dhil we may have done while keeping any rehit. Keeping Sarbloh Bibek is a rehit like any other rehit, and a Gursikh should seek to eat from other rehitvaan Gurmukh Junn who try to keep all the Rehits given by Guroo Saahib, including Bibek. Times have changed and so have our standard of keeping sucham in our kitchen whilst making food. I've read about puraatan Singhs who used to go to people houses and clean out the whole kitchen before making anything. But how many of us actually practice that now, before being called a Brahmin first? Even keeping simple bibek has become a problem for some where they call those keeping it Brahmin, and not keeping up with the moving duniyaa. 

Singhs and Singhneeaan who are following any level of Bibek that I have met, will never bother anyone around them. They will never force anyone or belittle anyone on not keeping it, instead it is the other way around. It is a humble bentee to let everyone follow their level of Bibek or any other rehit, and only ask Guroo Saahib to truly guide us and everyone else around us. We should only seek to walk this path of Gursikhee with love in our hearts for Guroo Saahib and for every Gursikh who is at least trying their best to live accordance to Gurmat.

Veerjee, the Singhs I do sangat with, when they say something, I believe them with full faith, and I don't feel the need to verify anything from anyone.

Please don't mistake this as a rude reply to you veer jee.

But as Bhainjee SK has stated, the word bibekee and sarablohee has become more of an adjective in the present day due to only certain Singhs keeping the aforementioned rehits. In puraatan times, not necessarily bhai sahibs time, a gursikh would in most cases be tyaar bar tyaar with a pehraa of sarabloh bibek.

I'll tell you why.

Most Singhs were amritdhaarees # 1
Most Lived in Punjaab # 2
Everyone Singh or not used sarabloh/pittal bhanday # 3
When rotee betee saanj was done, one didnt have to be so careful, as everyone was rehitvaan.

sure we saw singhs who chose to cook their own food. but taking all the points above. sarabloh and bibek was a given, at the time.
so maybe, when you got your info that bhai sahib didnt keep this rehit, you didnt see the mention of sarabloh or bibek.
But better believe it, Bhai Sahib kept this rehit, and 99% gursikhs of the time did as well, so bhai sahib didnt feel the need to classify his sangat as bibekee or sarablohee too often.

It is not me who is saying this, Bhai Sahib himself has written a book on bibek, contributing a whole chapter to sarabloh bibek daa pehraa. you can verify what bhai sahib has to say himself. I am not against talking to bapu jee or any other bazurg singh, but if bhai sahib has written with his own kalam in his own kitaaab, I don't feel the need to go any further.

Muaaf karnaa jee, my last post on the topic.

Vaheguroo

I think there is a little bit of confusion on the use of different terms in this thread. A bibeki is anyone who eats only from bibekis who eat from bibekis. There can theoretically be a bibeki who does not keep a Sarbloh pehra, but the terms Bibeki and Sarblohi have basically the same connotation. You cannot be a true bibeki without having a Sarbloh pehra, although most Gursikhs will and have in the past accepted those who have at least a bibek pehra for langar seva.

It is true that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee did eat from bibekis who did not have a Sarbloh pehra and most Gursikhs who keep Sarbloh Bibek will eat from those who are at least bibeki but the truth of the matter is that in today's time it is very rare to find a bibeki who does not have a Sarbloh pehra. I have yet to meet any Gursikh who has a full bibek pehra without keeping Sarbloh pehra as well.

I really don't see the point in not keeping Sarbloh as well since you would already be bibeki, it just seems weird to do that. It is understandable if you do not have Sarbloh bhanday and are keeping bibek without those, but if you have the ability to keep Sarbloh as well and chose not to that is a very big Dhil.

All of the Gursikhs we do sangat with keep full Sarbloh Bibek so we never have to encounter the problem of whether or not to eat from non Sarblohi bibekis. Maybe that is why most members on this forum only eat from Sarblohis.

Preetam Singh

AnokhKaur .
> . We should only seek
> to walk this path of Gursikhee with love in our
> hearts for Guroo Saahib and for every Gursikh who
> is at least trying their best to live accordance
> to Gurmat.


Beautifully said bhenjee.

Well said Preetam Singh jeeo. How can you keep Bibek without Sarbloh? And if you don't keep Sarbloh deliberately, then that is defiance against Guru Sahib or you believe that Sarbloh is not a Rehit. Either way, it is wrong. A Sikh is to eat from a Sikh. This was the basic Rehit. A Sikh is one who keeps all Rehit and not pick and choose from Rehit.

Kulbir Singh

You should phone Bapu Harbhajan Singh ji and discuss this with him, you will find out the reality of how praatan singhs kept their sarbloh bibek. It was not as today where one only eats from sarblohis, but like I said - if you follow this as your personal thing then that's fine.

Vivek Jeeo, you should phone GIani Harbhajan SIngh Ji and discuss with him what the panj kakkars are. Despite the overwhelming proof Keski is a Kakkar , BHai Sahib still claims Kes is a kakkar. No doubt Bhai Sahib is a Gurmukh with lots of knowledge on Gurmat and history but this doesnt make him or any other research scholar automatiocally correct in all their statements. We must investigate ourselves and not limit ourselves to learning from one source.

"Not doing nindiya here, but I believe the 'only eating from Sarblohis' practice started in the 21st century. "

GurSImran singh Jeeo,

Actaully this practice was first practiced rite after Vasakhi but later abolished during Britsh Raj where Sikhs assimilated and were more concerned with being accepted in the wider mixed society rather then Khalsa society. Bhai Daya SIngh Jis rehatnama says one should not be without Sarab Loh bata. WHenver travelling they should keep a bata with them. Puratan Singhs adorned themselves with Sarab Loh ( shasters) , and they also kept Sarab Loh bata with them at all times.

Baba Raam SIngh Ji ( NaamDhari) and his early assocaites from the 19th century were true Sant Khalsa and they despised the Malecchh Khalsa. They kept an extremely strict pehra on Sarab Loh. THeir standards of Sarab Loh Bibek have not been matched by any other group after the 19th centruy including the AKJ. The only problem is they eventually isolated themselves from the wider panth, and eventually became a an occult after the departure of Baba Ji. Fortunately, this cult rising did not occur with the AKJ after Bhai Randhir SIngh Jis departure; however, we do see some people who will only socialize and eat from people belonging to the same jathebandi as them. I think this is a dangerours mentality which should be avoided. Both Baba Raam Singh ji and Bhai Randhir SIngh lived and died for the upliftment of the GUru-panth they never envisioned having a group sepearte from the panth. Nowadays we have many people bent on propagating their jathebandis maryada rather then panthic maryada. Some groups are even starting to question the edicts of the panth ( ex Sri DasamGranth). On an individual level we can promote rehat with others but untill the panth unite and announce Sarab Loh Bibek as GUru Jis hukum we cannot claim those that dont follow Sarab Loh bibek are not rehatvan. Nor can we label those that dont recite nitnem according to Puratan standards as "kurehiti". Many of us fall short from Puratan Standards inlcudings the modern day Sarab Loh Bibekee Gursikhs. For example Puratan SIngh did not do the following:

1. Get milk from a Nigura , boil it and label it as Bibek.
2. Store food in non Sarab Loh material
3. Eat Sarab Lohi brownies or gulabjaman

Puratan SInghs would only receive milk which was milked by a rehatvan SIngh. Puratan SInghs were full of both bir rass and shant raas/.They never stored food. They would first offer food to others, eat their share, and all leftovers would be given to others including animals/ Refers to bhai desa singh jis rehatnama and suraj parkaash. Puratan Singh also had a simple diet they did not eat tasty food for the purpose of the tongue.

On a personal level I dont follow the standards of only eating from Sarab Lohi who only eat from Sarab Lohis. No doubt the higher the standards the higher the jeevan, but such standards are only practical if you live amongst others who have high standards. If you isolate yourself from the local sangat then where will you go for sangat. Sadh Sangat is one of the most important Hukums in Gurbani.WHo we eat from and what we out of is not the end result of our SIkhi. We should not be so overly obsessed with dietary rules. The truth is nobody follows the standards of Puratan SinghsOur main goal as Gursikh is to serve GUru Ji to the best of our ability.

Just a couple of points , this topic for the last decade has been the most discussed and it remains being discussed over and over without anyone actually being inspired to take on sarbloh bibek.

Mistake /dhills will always remain as long as the human kind remains - we all are Bhullanhars - only Guru Sahib and Akal Purkh are without mistake.

It's ok to hold a katar strict view of any point in rehat or in any discipline or any sort - but that doesn't mean to run over the entire Sikh diaspora who are not aware of the importance of this rehat. Everyone is at a different stage in their sikhe jeevan this is the most important point almost always missed by strict people in any discipline - since no wonder they want to thrust it down otther people's throats which will never happen.

Approach has to be different even when discussing strictness of any discipline and the importance of it.

Bhai Sukhdheep Singh a few comments/questions

at first you said that Marayada states that we should only eat from Sarblohiees, but later on in the very same post, and in previous posts have said that this practice of 'seclusion' should be avoided. What is your stance?

And another note, History proves that sweets like glabjaman and other things were made by Singhs and distributed in langar. Guru Sahib states that Kheer was distributed in langar, and their are Sakhis of laddo and other sweets being made in celebration of Anand Karaj's and other events.

Sukhdeep Singh ji,

I'm reffering to mahan jatha gursikh Babu Harbhajan Singh ji Shattrana vale, who currently resides at Anandpur Sahib. Bapuji was a sathi of bhai sahib and even did punj pyare di seva in those early days.
The gursikh you're reffering to is late Gyani Harbhajan Singh who is a completely different person.

Bapu ji in middle: [www.flickr.com]

Gurman Singh Baba Jee,

In previous post I stated in Puratan Maryada Singhs kept Sarab Loh Bibek, but this bibek was compeltely different then todays modern version of Bibek. I also stated panthic maryada does not accept this rehat so we cannot label those as kurehit who do not follow it.

Please provide references that Puratan Singhs ate gulab jaman. Kheer is compeltlety different then Gulab Jaman and brownies.

I feel embarrassed reading this thread. Hopefully one day I will be blessed with Sarbloh Bibeki Rehit

Gulab Jaman and Kheer are the same thing basically, they both contain LOTS of Sugar, and are fattening, which is why I'm guessing many people think it is taboo.

I read in a Sakhi that for Guru Har Rai's Sahib Ji's wedding Gulab Jaman and other sweets were distributed but i cannot seem to find it. I'm pretty sure it was in the book "Episodes From lives of The Guru's" Will post when i find.

Gurman Singh Baba Jee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ladoos and gulab jamuns are very opposite when it comes to nutritional value. I believe the sweets that were distributed in Punjabi culture had good health benefits. Sweets like gulab jamuns, I believe, have originated from Bengali culture.

So are you guys saying its ok for sarblohees to eat from Amritdharees who are Rehatvaan even if they arent sarblohee themselves? Just normal amritdharees that keep good rehat, nitnem and amritvela etc


I didnt start this topic to criticize any level of bibek. Just wanted to know what bhai randheer singh wrote about it. Keeping any level of strictness is awesome.

Vaheguru JI Ka KhAlSA
VAheGuRu Ji Ki FAtEh!!!!!!


First of all, Bibek==>Sarbloh Bibek, spicifically, along with Kakaars and others, is a given. There is no reason to eat out, when it already is a mandatory Rehit. Gursikhs are not doing anything wrong by eating in Sarbloh, rather those that don't keep Sarbloh Bibek, are the ones are in fault, and should be held liable for their action(s).
Second, "Sarblohi" is not a term, Sarbloh is meant to be kept and practiced by every Sikh. Those that don't, are in fault.

Vivek jee, instead of speaking to Bapu Harbhajan Singh Jee (Shatrana), I have talked to him in real life. We had a discussion on Sarbloh Bibek, on which he said that when Steel was first introduced, many Singhs had given up Sarbloh and had started cooking and eating in Steel instead. Later on, Gursikhs of that era approached Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh jee and requested him to not give updesh of a Sarbloh Pehra in Amrit Sanchaars, to which Bhai Sahib requested to be excused from doing any sort of Seva at Amrit Sanchaars, as he could not carry out such a horrendous act. That is where the practice of non-Sarbloh "bibek" started in the jatha. Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh jee never accepted it.

Quote
Parupkaar Singh
So are you guys saying its ok for sarblohees to eat from Amritdharees who are Rehatvaan even if they arent sarblohee themselves? Just normal amritdharees that keep good rehat, nitnem and amritvela etc


I didnt start this topic to criticize any level of bibek. Just wanted to know what bhai randheer singh wrote about it. Keeping any level of strictness is awesome.

A Sarbloh Bibeki can eat from anyone who is an Amritdhari Gursikh, keeps punj kakar (keski, kara, kashera, kanga, kirpan), is free from bajjar kurehits, does 7 bani nitnem, takes out daswand, and keeps bibek of only eating from bibekis who eat from bibekis.

This is from the writings of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and Bhai Sahib has also stated numerous times that Sarbloh is a must for every Gursikh. Please consider the following articles written by Bhai Sahib on Sarbloh Bibek:

Sarbloh Rehit as Important as 5 Kakaars

How bad it is to not keep Sarbloh Bibek

People who don't keep Sarbloh but have High Avastha

Rewards of Sarbloh Bibek

Preetam Singh

Quote

Vivek Jeeo, you should phone GIani Harbhajan SIngh Ji and discuss with him what the panj kakkars are. Despite the overwhelming proof Keski is a Kakkar , BHai Sahib still claims Kes is a kakkar. No doubt Bhai Sahib is a Gurmukh with lots of knowledge on Gurmat and history but this doesnt make him or any other research scholar automatiocally correct in all their statements. We must investigate ourselves and not limit ourselves to learning from one source.

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

Giani Harbhajan Singh jee that we are concerned with is a companion of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and totally believes in Keski as a Kakaar. You are mixing him up with someone else.

Secondly the impression from your post is that if there are no Tyaar bar Tyaar Rehitvaan Gursikhs in your area then it's okay to assimilate with your "local Sangat" because 'seclusion' is not good. We don't agree with this Dhilee statement at all. If a lion does not find lions to hangout with, it does not start hanging out with goats and lambs. Same way, a Rehitvaan Khalsa does not assimilate with Dhillay people as far as Roti Beti is concerned. Other Saanjh e.g. Kirtan, Seva etc. that is permitted in Gurmat is fine to do but not sharing Roti.

Kulbir Singh