Unconditional Love- Shabad Veechar

ਮਾਧਵੇਤੁਮਨਤੋਰਹੁਤਉਹਮਨਹੀਤੋਰਹਿ॥
ਤੁਮਸਿਉਤੋਰਿਕਵਨਸਿਉਜੋਰਹਿ॥੧ ॥॥
ਜਉਤੁਮਦੀਵਰਾਤਉਹਮਬਾਤੀ॥
ਜਉਤੁਮਤੀਰਥਤਉਹਮਜਾਤੀ॥੨ ॥

ਮਾਧਵੇਤੁਮਨਤੋਰਹੁਤਉਹਮਨਹੀਤੋਰਹਿ॥
In this Pangti most people do the Pad Chhed at ਮਾਧਵੇ ਤੁਮ ਨ ਤੋਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਤੋਰਹਿ॥
However according to Sampardai Tradtion the Pad Chhed is done like this ਮਾਧਵੇ ਤੁਮਨ ਤੋਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਤੋਰਹਿ॥

Proffesor Sahib Singh does the arth as: ਹੇ ਮਾਧੋ! ਜੇ ਤੂੰ (ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਲੋਂ) ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਹ ਤੋੜੇਂ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੋੜਾਂਗਾ;

However I feel this is putting a condition on Akaal Purakh. Who are we as his slaves to say a thing like that to our Master Lord. That if you do not break away from us then we wont either?

The arth done in the Ameer Bhandar Samparaee Teeka is:



In the Fareed Kot Teeka it says:
ਹੇ ਮਾਧਵ ਤੁਮ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਥ ਪ੍ਰੀਤੀ ਤੋੜੋ ਤੌ ਤੋੜੋ ਪਰੰਤੂ ਹਮ ਆਪ ਸੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤੀ ਕਬੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੋੜੈਂਗੇ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਆਪ ਸੇ ਤੋੜ ਕਰ ਹਮ ਔਰੁ ਕਿਸ ਸੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤੀ ਜੋੜੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਤੇਰੇ ਜੈਸਾ ਔਰ ਮੁਝ ਕੋ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਵਤਾ ਹੈ॥੧॥

Sant Gurbachan Singh in Katha says
Maharaj jee you may break away from us but we will never break away from you, we will always stay with you. However Sant Jee does do an arth with the pad chhed as ਮਾਧਵੇ ਤੁਮ ਨ ਤੋਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਤੋਰਹਿ॥ Saying Maharaj! Please do not break us away by getting us stuck in maya i.e protect us from Maya. This seems ok to me as well. But original pad chhed and arth ਮਾਧਵੇ ਤੁਮਨ ਤੋਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਤੋਰਹਿ॥ makes more sense to me.

I of course have no knowledge of Gurbani Viakarn, so can sangat please enlighten me why Prof. Sahib Singh does Pad Chhed at ਮਾਧਵੇ ਤੁਮ ਨ ਤੋਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਤੋਰਹਿ॥

Very interesting Vichaar, Gagan Singh jeeo.I have heard this before but feel that the Prachalat (generally accepted Paath) is fine. It is hard to find this pronoun word ਤੁਮ written as ਤੁਮਨ anywhere in Gurbani. Some scholars argue that if one claims that even if Vaheguru jee breaks his Preet (love) even then one would not break love with Vaheguru, there are traces of Haume in this claim.

If we look at this Pankiti closely we realize that it is actually a plea of Bhagat jee that O Vaheguru if you don't break our Preet with you, then we (in our capacity) would never break it from you.

In other words, if Vaheguru jee does not cause us to break Preet with Him, then we would never break it. This Pankiti is not saying that Vaheguru would break His own Preet with us because this scenario is not possible. He loves us, no matter what. It is like we commonly say that unless Vaheguru makes me do this, I would never do this.

Kulbir Singh

Thank you Bhai Sahib for that explanation.

Reminds me of a story of Bhagat Soordaas jee which my late daadee jee told me when I was a kid.

Bhagat jee was a shardhalu of Krishan jee's baal roop, and was also blind (only by physical eyes). Krishan jee once assumed the form of a little kid and came to stay with Bhagat jee. He would serve him all the time, and Bhagat jee would wonder who is this kid. But it didn't take too long before he realized who he was dealing with. After all, how can you stay hidden from your Lover, and for how long? Bhagat jee grabbed the kid's hand and said tell me who are you. The kid (Krishan jee) freed his hand and ran away. Then Bhagat jee smiled and uttered the following phrase

ਹਾਥ ਛੁੜਾ ਕੇ ਜਾਤ ਹੋ, ਨਿਰਬਲ ਜਾਨ ਕੇ ਮੋਹਿ
ਹਿਰਦੇ ਸੇ ਜਬ ਜਾਓਗੇ, ਮਰਦ ਬਖਾਨੋ ਤੋਹਿ

Meaning: You've snatched your hand away from me and run away because you know I am weak. But if you think you are a real man, I dare you to walk out of my heart.

Daadee jee used to say that Bhagat jee had so much atutt bhagti and beant Rabbee prem in him that he was so confident that nothing could reduce that prem for his isht.

Please forgive me if this sakhi is not in accordance with Gurmat, but I always felt that it has a different shade and flavor of Rabbee deevaangee that showers on some and drenches them in masti.

I thought it was more like, even if you break bonds with me O Vaaheguroo, I still will love you
or something like that anyway...
Bhul chuk maafi
Vjkk Vjkf

daas123

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Bhagat jee was a shardhalu of Krishan jee's baal roop, and was also blind (only by physical eyes).

This is because he belonged to Vallabhacharya's Samprada that preaches Shudh Advaita. The followers of this Samprada worship only the childhood form of Siri Krishna. If I am not wrong, their Mantra is "Shri Krishna Sharnam Mamah" which I believe has 16 Maatra and for that reason is called the Khodsa Mantra.

The Soordaas whose Baani is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is not this famous Soordaas because this Soordaas remained a Krishna Bhagat till his very end. He composed numerous Bhajans adoring Siri Krishna. The Bhagat Soordaas whose Baanis is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee was known as Madan Mohan Soordaas and he too was blind from eyes and lived around the same time as the famous Soordaas. He started off as Krishna Bhagat but later on under the influence of Gurmat realized the Nirgun Vaheguru. He may have met Siri Guru Amardaas jee when Guru Sahib went to Hindu Teeraths to preach Gurmat because he was from around that time.

Kulbir Singh

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This is because he belonged to Vallabhacharya's Samprada that preaches Shudh Advaita. The followers of this Samprada worship only the childhood form of Siri Krishna. If I am not wrong, their Mantra is "Shri Krishna Sharnam Mamah" which I believe has 16 Maatra and for that reason is called the Khodsa Mantra.

The Soordaas whose Baani is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is not this famous Soordaas because this Soordaas remained a Krishna Bhagat till his very end. He composed numerous Bhajans adoring Siri Krishna. The Bhagat Soordaas whose Baanis is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee was known as Madan Mohan Soordaas and he too was blind from eyes and lived around the same time as the famous Soordaas. He started off as Krishna Bhagat but later on under the influence of Gurmat realized the Nirgun Vaheguru. He may have met Siri Guru Amardaas jee when Guru Sahib went to Hindu Teeraths to preach Gurmat because he was from around that time.

Vaheguru! Thanks for sharing Bhai Sahib jee, I had no idea!

This is very interesting, daas came across this shabad just this past week, and pondered upon the same thought.

Thank you for shedding light jee.

I dont believe the pangti is putting any condition on Guru Sahib; instead, Bhagat Jee is merely saying his love for Waaheguru is completely DEPENDENT upon Guru Sahib.