What is Bir Rass ?

1) Please stop mentioning Chandi Di Var is neccessary for all Singhs. Puratan marayda that you have read is OBIOUSLY reffering to Ardas
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The above is not correct. Bahi sahib Bhai randhir singh made chandi di vaar recitation as part of Nitnem everyday.
Apart from that his personal sri sahibs have inscrption of Dasam bani on them.

That shows that he had very deep resepct for Dasam Granth banis.Obviously khalsa will not ignore bani of his spiritual
father as all shashtras of khalsa originate from this bani.

Chandi Ki Vaar falls under Beer russ Bani category, because beer rus is what it gives. All in all there are 3 types of Guru Kirt in Sri Dasam Granth.Beer Russ banian being the war aspect of Sri Dasam Granth.


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Admin jeo, its about time you remain more vigilant in allowing self proclaimed delusional scholars from presenting their twisted interpretation on this site freely. Because, in the long run innocent minds might see it as the "right" as per gurmat .

Chota veer

Chandi Di vaar is a story of Sri sahib. and havoc warriors display on battlefield while wielding it.
It will not be written in Bani that it is bir rass. The wording of bani will prove that as below.


ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
PAURI

ਸੱਟ ਪਈ ਜਮਧਾਣੀ ਦਲਾਂ ਮੁਕਾਬਲਾ ॥
स्ट पई जमधाणी दलां मुकाबला ॥
When the trumpet, enveloped by the hide of the male buffalo, the vehicle of Yama, sounded, the armies attacked each other.

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥
धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥
Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥
चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥
She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥
कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥
It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton.

ਪਾਖਰ ਤੁਰਾ ਪਲਾਣੀ ਰੜਕੀ ਧਰਤਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
पाखर तुरा पलाणी रड़की धरति जाइ ॥
And it further pierced through the saddle and caparison of the horse, and struck on the earth supported by the Bull (Dhaul).

ਲੈਦੀ ਅਘਾ ਸਿਧਾਣੀ ਸਿੰਗਾਂ ਧਉਲ ਦਿਆਂ ॥
लैदी अघा सिधाणी सिंगां धउल दिआं ॥
It moved further and struck the horns of the Bull.

ਕੂਰਮ ਸਿਰ ਲਹਿਲਾਣੀ ਦੁਸਮਨ ਮਾਰਿ ਕੈ ॥
कूरम सिर लहिलाणी दुसमन मारि कै ॥
Then it struck on the Tortoise supporting the Bull and thus killing the enemy.

ਵੱਢੇ ਗਨ ਤਿਖਾਣੀ ਮੂਏ ਖੇਤ ਵਿਚ ॥
व्ढे गन तिखाणी मूए खेत विच ॥
The demons are lying dead in the battlefield like the pieces of wood sawed by the carpenter.

ਰਣ ਵਿਚ ਘੱਤੀ ਘਾਣੀ ਲੋਹੂ ਮਿਝ ਦੀ ॥
रण विच घ्ती घाणी लोहू मिझ दी ॥
The press of blood and marrow has been set in motion in the battlefield.

ਚਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਚਲਗਿ ਤੇਗ ਦੀ ॥
चारे जुग कहाणी चलगि तेग दी ॥
The story of the sword will be related in all the four ages.

Chandi di vaar

Unquote

Bhai rattan Singh ji Bhangu writes in Prachin panth parkash

Pahul khande tyar karvai, jal madh aan mithai pai
Teh madh rakhi karad gadai, satgur rakhi karad dhare dai

Dohra

Sri satgur satnam rahio karta purakh uchar
akal akaleh jaap kar teri kirpa nijh dhar

Chaupai

Pritham bhagauti vaar jo pauri, par prithme aap satgur jori
Nau patshahian lau dhiaye, ab dushman par hoin sahaye

Bahur swaiye batti uchare, sri satgur sri mukhon vichare
tej tej jo chandi bani, Sau pahul ea madhe thani

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I still believe Kharag SIngh is an imaginary character. Why do you assume Guru Sahib
can not use imaginary/mythological characters as a means to deliever a message?

The modern day missionaries believe that there is no heaven or hell, messengers of death etc. and that these are just metaphors. They also say that references of Puranic and Vedic characters too are imaginary. Now you are saying the same thing. On one hand you very boldly have stated in this thread that Krishnavtar is "Dhur kee Baani" and then you also state that the characters used in it are all imaginary. I don't know what to make of this.

We need to realize that Dhur kee Baani is Sachkhandi Baani and it is Satt Satt and nothing but Truth. It is irresponsible to call a Baani "Dhur kee Baani" on one hand and then turn around and say that it contains imaginary concepts or characters. I strongly suggest that you revisit your concepts.

It is established that the Rachna or the compositions of Dasam Granth are Guru Sahib's but I have not heard any scholar claim that all Dasam Granth compositions are Dhur kee Baani. When Guru Sahib Himself is stating again and again that he is translating (e.g. Bhagvat Puraan), then how can someone claim that this translation is Dhur kee Baani? It clearly is a literary composition.

Same way, it is repeatedly stated in Charitropakhiyaan that it is "Mantri Bhoop Sambade", then how can it be Dhur kee Baani? If the Mantri (minister) is from Maatlok (this world) and the Bhoopat (king) is from Maatlok, then how can their Sambaad (conversation) be from Sachkhand? Please, stop making such irresponsible statements as stating that Mantri-Bhoop Sambade is Dhur kee Baani.

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Chandi Di Vaar is not about a battle bewteen Durga and Mahakisur as you claim; instead
the bani is about a battle between Good and Evil. Guru Sahib used famous characters as
a means to depict this daily battle between good and bad.

Please show me where Guru Sahib is saying this. At the most, this is your personal opinion and that is fine but don't make it sound as universal truth. In Chaubees Avtaar Guru Sahib has clearly stated his reason for translating this work. The purpose is same here i.e. Dharamjudh ko Chao.

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If Chandi Di Vaaris a remaking of the Puranas then please tell me why are Muslims ( quazi) mentioned . Quazis
did not even exist during the creation of the puranas. Quazis did not even exist during the time
of the old testament which is much newer then the Puranas..

Please make a note of my posts. I have been stating all along that Chandi dee Vaar and Chandi Charitters are "Independent" translations and not word to word translation. In any case, inclusion of Qazis and Muslims in the Baani does not make it Dhur kee Baani. It is a great literary work of Guru Sahib. The first part of Vaar Siri Bhagauti jee kee is Baani and is recited by Sikhs everyday twice at least.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Inder Singh jee,

No one is questioning the recitation of Chandi dee Vaar but what we all are questioning is the assertion by Veer Sukhdeep Singh that Chandi dee Vaar is part of the daily Nitnem of a Sikh. This is not correct. The daily Nitnem includes 7 Baanis and Chandi dee Vaar is not part of it. The Ardaas part of Chandi dee Vaar surely is part of our Nitnem but it is wrong to add or subtract any Baani from the 7 Baani Nitnem.

Such statements as Bir Rass comes from Dasam Granth and Shant Rass comes from Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, are misleading. The truth of the matter is that Shant Rass and Bir Rass are one and the same thing. They are the two sides of the same coin. What we should be saying is that both Shant Rass and Bir Rass come from Gurbani (doesn't matter from which Siri Granth Sahib). Baani is Baani. Is Siri Jaap Sahib any inferior Baani to Siri Sukhmani Sahib? Does Siri Jaap Sahib contain any less Shant Rass than Siri Jap jee Sahib, or does Siri Anand Sahib contain more Shakti than Siri Benti Chaupai?

Both Shant Rass and Bir Rass are by-products of Naam Rass and Naam Rass is derived from Gurbani and Gurmantr. We should not make any statement that may directly or indirectly imply that Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee lacks any kind of Rass. Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is perfect and Poora Satguru and contains all Rass of the world. In order to promote and do Parchaar of Dasam Granth, we don't need to say that Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee lacks a certain Rass and that we need to get that Rass from Dasam Granth. Dasam Granth is Guru Sahib's Mauj. It contains great Baanis and literary compositions. Jaikaar to Maharaj jee's Kautaks.

Kulbir Singh

Very well put.

It seems there is a new wave of thinking. Sree Guroo Granth Sahib jee is Shant Rassi and Dasam Granth is Bir Rassi.
This is totally absurd, Both contain Shant Rass & Bir Rass, This new thinking has caused a lot of Dubidhaa in the Panth.

Sukhdeep Singh jee I keep getting the feeling you are trying to make out people are always against you for some reason.
A slight twist in wording you tend to do and you always go off the point. Nothing is gained from this.

Way back in my childhood, One Baba Ji, used to say to our friends, that this bani when read creates anger and fight. Do not read it. But we enjoyed it and used to read it sometimes. (This Bani was also there in a book by a Panjab University for a degree course in Panjabi. This bani or a part of it is also included in some Hindi course for an Indian University, probably). Anyway, we used to read and repeat parts of it. It was our newly found love at that time. We used to talk about the beautiful pankities from it, which we remembered by heart.

Interestingly, whenever a discussion is there about it on this forum, debate is hotter.

Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji is never without a reference. But, I feel that, in the course of discussion, we happen to make some harsh statements, which are taken note by others and the topic gets hot.

I personally feel that Dhur Ki Bani and Literary Work, classification, is man made and for our convenience. This classification is not God given. When Veer Ji says, every word of my father is "Dhur KI Bani", nothing is Literature; he is able to make his point but does not help us to solve the issue. Every body knows that these two are from the mouth of GURU SAHIB and He is father of all of us. The issue here is to differentiate between the contexts of JAAP SAHIB and the CHANDI DEE VAAR. Former is about JAAP (of Akal Purakh) and latter is about an already written subject of Hindu mythology. If Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji has some better words to explain the difference in contexts of these two types, he should suggest us. Otherwise there is nothing wrong to classify as above.

Now, I have something from Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, which I am not convinced with, i.e. about imaginary characters. Why Guru Sahib cannot quote imaginary characters? I agree with Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji here. His point is convincing. I feel that by reproducing or adding or creating such characters to the established mythological characters, Guru Sahib gives us a hint. Do not bother about the truthfulness or untruthfulness of these tales. These are merely and merely gone away characters. Do not bother who wins or who loses.

That is all falsehood. No one of them, was near the ULTIMATE TRUTH.

Now, I have something which I am not convinced with Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji. You said,"That is battle between Good and Evil". How do you conclude it? Where does Guru Sahib said so in Chandi Di Vaar ? I still remember a Pankiti from Chandi Di Vaar, which says, to teach a " Proud-breaking" lesson to Devtas,God produced Demons.

I think, we can read and enjoy CHANDI DI VAAR, without giving a little importance to any good or bad characters of this story, who win or lose. Nevertheless, what is important for us that Akal Purakh is a major character in this story. His reference is there. That is sufficient. (Please do not get offended, when I am using the word story.)

Bhul Chuk Maaf Hove Ji. It is long I have read CHANDI DEE VAAR.

Bhai Kulbir Singh ji

i respect your post. But the issue is much bigger. There are posters who make a statement
as below

1) Chandi di vaar was read when singhs were to go to battlefield.As there is no battles to be fought
now. So there is no need of it.

my query;

Does that mean that we will disregard our puratan maryada just because times have changed.

2) Bhai Randhir singh never read chandi di vaar.

Ans

Surely he read it everyday

3) Babbar jodhas did not read chandi di vaar

Most babbar khalukhdev singh and sulakhan singh especially read this bani.

4) Why do we read bani from a second granth when we have one already.

My point

That statement seems to be seconding missionaries.

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Sikhs in the past have been reciting Dasam bani as part of nitnem. Bhai sahib Bhai randhir Singh ji had been reciting Chadi di vaar
and bachitra natak everyday.this i know from personal account ofv Bhai sahib's relatives.We have collections of his eprsonal effects such as sri sahib that has incription of tuks from dasam Bani.

There is also a sandesh from Bhai Surat ji for singhs of AKJ when there was a tendency among opponents of dasam bani to belittle it
on one or the pther pretext.Press note can be viewed here.

[tapoban.org]

Good points SIngho. Perhaps these new age Singhs will read the press release.

Chandi di Vaar is completely an independent bani of Guru sahib.It is not translation of purana. It is in Punjabi.

Towards end of Chandi charitra Ukti blas guru sahib writes

ਚੰਡਿ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਵਿਤਨ ਮੈ ਬਰਨਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਰਸ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਮਈ ਹੈ ॥
चंडि चरित्र कवितन मै बरनिओ सभ ही रस रुद्रमई है ॥
I have narrated this Chandi Charitra in poetry, which is all full of Rudra Rasa .

ਏਕ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰਸਾਲ ਭਇਓ ਨਖ ਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਲਉ ਉਪਮਾ ਸੁ ਨਈ ਹੈ ॥
एक ते एक रसाल भइओ नख ते सिख लउ उपमा सु नई है ॥
The stanzas one and all, are beautifully composed, which contain new similes from beginning to end.

Chandi charitra ukti blas part 1

markandey Purana has 124 chapters whereas guru sahib has taken only 8 chapters from there and altered those to render it his own style.

Nobody is questioning the supremacy of Sahib SGGS ji. It is our Guru eternal as guru sahib has left his jyot in it.
Dasam bani is bani of sahib sri Gobind Singh ji and is very important for a sikh to read.

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No one is questioning the recitation of Chandi dee Vaar but what we all are questioning is the assertion by Veer Sukhdeep Singh that Chandi dee Vaar is part of the daily Nitnem of a Sikh. This is not correct. The daily Nitnem includes 7 Baanis and Chandi dee Vaar is not part of it. The Ardaas part of Chandi dee Vaar surely is part of our Nitnem but it is wrong to add or subtract any Baani from the 7 Baani Nitnem.

Kulbir SIngh Jeeo,

Why are you so fixated on numbers? DO you actually believe Puratan SInghs only recited 7 banis as part of their
nitnem. This is an extremely ignorant statement. I have never once claimed Sri Chandi Di Vaar is part of the Panj Bania
and should be recited at Amrit Sanchar. So what harm is it in saying banis like Chandi DI Vaar, Aaarti, were nitnem
for Puaratan SInghs, and one should make efforts to build their rehat to Puratan standards.. Can you please provided any historical references which says Puratan SInghs had only 7 nitnem banis.

I have provided too much evidence which shows Aaarti and Chandi Di Vaar was included in the nitnem of Puratan SInghs.
Never once have I stated if a Gursikhs does not add these banis they are not Gursikhs or they are not going to Sach Khand.
GUru Sahib decided who is a Gursikh and Guru Sahib decided who will enter Sach Khand. We can only try to practice
maryada to the best of our ability and understanding.

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Such statements as Bir Rass comes from Dasam Granth and Shant Rass comes from Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, are misleading. The truth of the matter is that Shant Rass and Bir Rass are one and the same thing. They are the two sides of the same coin. What we should be saying is that both Shant Rass and Bir Rass come from Gurbani (doesn't matter from which Siri Granth Sahib). Baani is Baani. Is Siri Jaap Sahib any inferior Baani to Siri Sukhmani Sahib? Does Siri Jaap Sahib contain any less Shant Rass than Siri Jap jee Sahib, or does Siri Anand Sahib contain more Shakti than Siri Benti Chaupai? Both Shant Rass and Bir Rass are by-products of Naam Rass and Naam Rass is derived from Gurbani and Gurmantr. We should not make any statement that may directly or indirectly imply that Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee lacks any kind of Rass. Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is perfect and Poora Satguru and contains all Rass of the world. In order to promote and do Parchaar of Dasam Granth, we don't need to say that Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee lacks a certain Rass and that we need to get that Rass from Dasam Granth. Dasam Granth is Guru Sahib's Mauj. It contains great Baanis and literary compositions. Jaikaar to Maharaj jee's Kautaks.

If banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were meant to create bir ras in the battle field then why did Sri Hargobind Sahib create
Dhaadi Vaars during battles. Why did GUru Gobind SIngh JI write banis like Krishna Avtaar, Bachitar Natak, AKal Ustat
during periods of war? My statements about shant ras and bir come from the original statment by a member who stated
people recite Chandi Di Vaar and they act aggresively. I simply was mentioning people dont follow the maryada in reciting bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji before reciting Chandi DI Vaar. This maryada is mentioned by Baba Nihal SIngh Ji and
you need to understand the maryada of CHandi Di Vaar before jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth. CHandi Di Vaar maryada and satkar of Shasters maryada go hand in hand. In the words of my Pooran Satguru, Sri Guru
Hargobind Sahib Ji " You cannot keep two swords in one sheath".

You mention top Sri Dasam Granth Scholars claim bani in Sri Dasam Granth are liteary works. Can you please provide
the names of three scholars and give references to such claims. You are the only person I know who makes such claims.
Next you will say verses
ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥

Are not DHur Ki Bani because they came from Chandi Chratirs ( tales of Chandi) instead they are liteary works. You need
to be careful in what you say. You are undermining Sri Dasam Bani by saying its mere liteary work.

What about the following verses from ChatriroPakhyan
ਸੁਨੈ ਗੁੰਗ ਜੋ ਯਾਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਈ ॥ ਸੁਨੈ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ਚਤੁਰਤਾ ਆਵਈ ॥
ਦੂਖ ਦਰਦ ਭੌ ਨਿਕਟ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਨਰ ਕੇ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਹੋ ਜੋ ਯਾਕੀ ਏਕ ਬਾਰ ਚੌਪਈ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ॥੪੦੪॥

Are these liteary works as well. Did Guru Sahib mix Dhur Ki Bani ( Kabyo Bach Benti) with "Liteary works"?

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Now, I have something which I am not convinced with Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji. You said,"That is battle between Good and Evil". How do you conclude it? Where does Guru Sahib said so in Chandi Di Vaar ? I still remember a Pankiti from Chandi Di Vaar, which says, to teach a " Proud-breaking" lesson to Devtas,God produced Demons.

MB SIngh Veer Ji, in the beginning of Chandi Di Vaar Guru Sahib mentions how Akal Purakh used numerous
avtaars and devtas to destory tyrants.
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

This is pure Dhur Ki Bani. Nobody can claim these verses are mere liteary works .
These verses are stricitly praising the power of Sri Akal Purakh who is
all good and destroys evil. AKal Purakh Ji is interpersonal he plays a role in the affiars of his
devotees. He always protects them from evil doers. The same way he saved Sant Prahalaad
from the naastic Harnkash. Next we will have people say such verses from Sri Guru Granth
Sahib Ji are mere literal works.

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I personally feel that Dhur Ki Bani and Literary Work, classification, is man made and for our convenience. This classification is not God given. When Veer Ji says, every word of my father is "Dhur KI Bani", nothing is Literature; he is able to make his point but does not help us to solve the issue. Every body knows that these two are from the mouth of GURU SAHIB and He is father of all of us. The issue here is to differentiate between the contexts of JAAP SAHIB and the CHANDI DEE VAAR. Former is about JAAP (of Akal Purakh) and latter is about an already written subject of Hindu mythology. If Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji has some better words to explain the difference in contexts of these two types, he should suggest us. Otherwise there is nothing wrong to classify as above.

Veer Ji you are right in saying the classification of DHur Ki Bani and Liteary work is a man made convenience.
How dare we equate the utterances of SatGuru Ji as man made literal works.

In regards to distinction between Sri Jaap Sahib and Sri Chandi DI Vaar there is not much. In Sri Jaap Sahib
we recite
ਨਮੋ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਣੇ ॥

Guru Sahib says he bows to AKal Purakh who bears weapons in hand and destroys the enemey. In Sri Chandi Di
Vaar the praise is not to Durga as many missionary minded people assume. The praise it to Sri Bhagauti ( Sri Sahib)
who destroys evil. Akal Purakh uses many figuers throughout history to destroy evil. The same way he use Ram Chander
to kill Ravan with a special arrow. Whether these evetns of Durga, Raam Chander, Krishan etc are factual is irrelevent.
The point is Guru Sahib is trying to portray a message which is AKal Purakh is interpersonal and he works through
his devotees to destroy evil.

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo, please respond to the questions asked to you, in my previous post. You have totally ignored those questions and are now asking new questions. Please respond to the previous post addressed to you. Only then we can move forward.

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Are not DHur Ki Bani because they came from Chandi Chratirs ( tales of Chandi) instead they are liteary works. You need to be careful in what you say. You are undermining Sri Dasam Bani by saying its mere liteary work.

And you are undermining Dhur kee Baani by stating that translations (independent translations of Puraans) are Dhur kee Baani. When Guru Sahib Himself is stating that He is translating from Bhagvat Puraan, how can you go against Guru Sahib's own Hukam and state that this composition is Dhur kee Baani instead of a translation?

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Why are you so fixated on numbers? DO you actually believe Puratan SInghs only recited 7 banis as part of their
nitnem. This is an extremely ignorant statement.

What we all are questioning is your statements like Chandi dee Vaar being mandatory Nitnem. Otherwise, if one wants to add some Baani to his Nitnem, that's fine but one should not claim that one MUST do a certain baani other than 7 Nitnemi Baanis. If you now agree that the mandatory Nitnem is only 7 Baanis and Ardaas, then we have no issues to discuss.

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What about the following verses from ChatriroPakhyan
ਸੁਨੈ ਗੁੰਗ ਜੋ ਯਾਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਈ ॥ ਸੁਨੈ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ਚਤੁਰਤਾ ਆਵਈ ॥
ਦੂਖ ਦਰਦ ਭੌ ਨਿਕਟ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਨਰ ਕੇ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਹੋ ਜੋ ਯਾਕੀ ਏਕ ਬਾਰ ਚੌਪਈ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ॥੪੦੪॥
Are these liteary works as well. Did Guru Sahib mix Dhur Ki Bani ( Kabyo Bach Benti) with "Liteary works"?

The most of Charitropakhiyaan is Mantri Bhoop Sambaade and is thus a literary work whereas Benti Chaupai is "Kabiyobaach" i.e. Guru Sahib's own bachan, therefore it is Dhur kee Baani. Yes Dhur kee Baani is lying throughout Dasam Granth, within literary works of Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

Perhaps there is a difference of opinion as to what "Dhur kee Baani" means.

1. Could you please explain what you think is the difference between ordinary Baani and Dhur kee Baani? Baani in itself just means words or sound.

2. Is there is difference between ordinary talk of Guru Sahib and Dhur kee Baani? As an example, if Guru Sahib asks someone to fetch a Baata of water, is that Dhur kee Baani?

3. When Guru Sahib used to ask Bhai Mardana to touch the Rabaab as "Baani aaye hai" what did that mean? Where was the Baani coming from?

4. When Guru Sahib says in Baani "Dhur kee Baani aayee||" it must mean something different from ordinary talk, right?

It would be greatly helpful, if you comment on and answer the above stated points.

Kulbir Singh

Very finely put together by Bhai Kulbir Singh jee.

There are myths used extensively in SGGS as well as Hindu mythology to drive home the point. So one has to use one's
budhi to understand the message.

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1. Could you please explain what you think is the difference between ordinary Baani and Dhur kee Baani? Baani in itself just means words or sound.

DHur Ki Bani are words which are imbued with naam and come from the holy mouth of SatGuru Ji. All banis in Sri Dasam Granth
are bir ras banis recited by Guru Sahib in times of war. You yourself stated bir ras comes from Naam Raas. Here is what you said.

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Bir Rass is such emotion, that is unique to Khalsa, that is full of enthusiasm to fight a Dharam-yudh (religious war) but this emotion is totally contained within the Naam Rass.

On the other hand you say these banis are literal works. THis is a contradiction. Please clear up your position. How can bani be Bir
ras and not Dhur Ki Bani, since Bir Ras derives from Naam Ras?

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2. Is there is difference between ordinary talk of Guru Sahib and Dhur kee Baani? As an example, if Guru Sahib asks someone to fetch a Baata of water, is that Dhur kee Baani?

Please dont refer to a Hukum as ordinary talk. If Guru Sahib gives Hukum then the Hukum contains naam inside of it. Even if its a simple
Hukum like go fetch some water. When Guru Sahib gave Hukum to Bhai Lehna Ji to eat a dead body. That was Hukum. There is no difference
between Hukum and Naam. Guru Sahib never spoke on his own account. His words are the words of Akal Purakh. When we follow instructions
of Guru Sahib naam goes automically. For example, rehatnamey are instructions. SOmeone might say getting up and taking a shower is ordinary
talk, but on the other I believe this is a divine hukum coming from Sri Sach Khand ( Sri Akal Purakh).

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3. When Guru Sahib used to ask Bhai Mardana to touch the Rabaab as "Baani aaye hai" what did that mean? Where was the Baani coming from?

Bani was coming from far off place ( Sri Sach Khand).


4. When Guru Sahib says in Baani "Dhur kee Baani aayee||" it must mean something different from ordinary talk, right?


Yes of course DHur Ki Bani is different then ordinary talk, but how can we claim Sri Dasam Bani to be ordinary talk. How can
we say anything Guru Sahib said was ordinary talk. Any words coming out of the mouth of Sri GUru Ji are sweet and full of naam.
Every instruction is divine and aides in naaam abhyiaas.

One last time, a humble request please stop stating banis such as Chandi Di Vaar are mere literally works. There are many people
including myself who recite this bani daily and believe it to be full of naam and amrit. We believe its Dhur Ki Bani and not a mere literal work
thus we include it in our nitnem. If you dont like to recite this bani in your nitnem then fair enoug,h but please dont undermine the bani. At the end
of this bani GUru Sahib says he composed this bani and then gives the Hukum who ever recites this bani will not go through rebirth. I have
belief in what Gurus hukum is so please dont undermine it or refer to it as ordinary language or mere literal works/translation of Hindu Granth.

ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪਾਠ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਸਭੇ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ॥
ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਇਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੫੫॥

GUru Sahib says he composed every Pauri not just the first pauri. Anyone who recite ALL pauris will escape
rebirth.

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo, you are entitled to your views and I have no motive to change them. You have not answered questions raised in my previous posts and I feel we are going in circles. I would be repeating myself if I respond to your last post above.

If a person does not want to obey even Guru Sahib's own Hukam that Guru Sahib is translating from Puraan (Krishnavtaar) and keep on insisting that it is Dhur kee Baani and at the same time also insist that this "Dhur kee Baani" contains imaginary characters (falsehood), then there is nothing I can do about it. There is a serious lack of rationality here.

There is no point continuing this debate. What has to be said has been said.

Kulbir Singh