What is Bir Rass ?

I asked a Bhai Sahib about Chandi Di Vaar and they told me that if you read this bani you will get bir rass
i didnt have the time to ask him what he meant by bir rass does anyone know the meaning of Bir rass ?

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written about Bir Rass in his book - Gurmat Bibek. Daas will try to post extracts from it at a later date.

Bir Rass is such emotion, that is unique to Khalsa, that is full of enthusiasm to fight a Dharam-yudh (religious war) but this emotion is totally contained within the Naam Rass. Since Naam Rass is unique to Khalsa, therefore, Gurmat Bir Rass too is unique to Khalsa. Bir Rass does not have even an iota of Krodh. Outwardly it may seem like an emotion similar to Krodh but it is not. Krodh has its origins in Maya whereas Bir Rass originates from Gurmat. Therefore, even though there is a perceived similarity between Bir Rass and Krodh, they are totally different.

Some differences between Krodh and Bir Rass are:

1. Krodh originates from Maya whereas Bir Rass comes from Gurmat Naam.

2. Krodh begets cruelty whereas Bir Rass is full of Daya (compassion).

3. In Krodh, one totally gets overwhelmed by Krodh and commits such mistakes that one later on gravely regrets. In Bir Rass, one is submerged in Naam Rass and as such Vaheguru Himself is working within such individual. One does not commit sins while under Bir Rass.

4. When in Krodh, one is governed by Maya and it's agents which results in one committing grave sins. When in Bir Rass, Gursikh is under Shaheedi Pehra and Guru Sahib Himself takes seva from the body of such Gursikhs. Guru Sahib does all the work, but the Gursikh whose body is used, gets all the credit. Only an individual who has experienced Bir Rass knows about it. Rest can only conjecture.

5. In Gurmat, Bir Rass and Shant Rass are two sides of the same coin. Whereas worldly Shanti and Krodh cannot co-exist. There was no difference in the Shant-Rass of Bhai Lachhman Singh and Bir Rass of Baba Deep Singh or the Shant Rass of Baba Bir Singh Narangabadi and Bir Rass of Sahibzada Baba Ajit Singh jee.

May Guru Sahib bless us with the true Gurmat Naam Rass, Shant Rass and Bir Rass.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Veer Kulbir Singh jio, Daas was planning to scan and post this extract from Bhai sahib's book later today and saw your post.

You have already summarised the Bir Rass very well, dass would like to just add two cents. Bir Rass is achieved through Naam abhyaas and naam ras. There is a common belief that reading the Dasam patshah's bani will give Bir Rass. That is true as long as we engage in naam kamai.
A lot of modern nihungs read Chandi di War but are engaged in anti gurmat practices at the same time. Anger on their face should not be equated to bir rass. Dass remembers two nihungs fought high on some drugs/sukha in India about 12-13 years ago in Sarovar parikarma of Gurdwara Bangla Sahib. They went to the extent of taking out swords and unfortunately one of them was killed in this fight. We can not equate these kind of actions to Bir Rass.

Very well explained by Kulbir Singh ji.

Here is bir rass kirtan from Chandi Charitra by well known Ragi by Bhai Balbir Singh ji

[www.panthic.org]

Thank you everyone

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A lot of modern nihungs read Chandi di War but are engaged in anti gurmat practices at the same time. Anger on their face should not be equated to bir rass. Dass remembers two nihungs fought high on some drugs/sukha in India about 12-13 years ago in Sarovar parikarma of Gurdwara Bangla Sahib. They went to the extent of taking out swords and unfortunately one of them was killed in this fight. We can not equate these kind of actions to Bir Rass.

This is because they dont follow the Maryada of reciting Chandi Di Vaar. According to Sri Guru Panth Parkaash,
and Puratan REhatnamey one should first read Sri Jap Ji Sahib or do Panj Bania before recting Chandi Di Vaar.
There was a video by Baba Nihal SIngh Ji on youtube explaing this maryada of Chandi DI Vaar in detail but unfortunately
I cant find the video. I have also heard one should do Naam Abhyiaas after recting CHandi Di Vaar.

If you think about it our nithem ( excluding Kirtan Sohila) consist of banis from both granths. Guru Sahib wanted us
to have shant ras combined with Bir Raas meaning a combination of Sant Sipahi.

I also forgot to mention another aspect in regards to the maryada of Sri Chandi Di Vaar
Chandi DI Vaar is basically an ardas of protection for ShasterDhari Singhs. Puratan SInghs would
recite this bani through memory while standing up before putting on their 3 foot Sri Sahib.

The marydaa of respecting Shasters is interlinked with the bani Sri Chandi DI Vaar. Miri
Piri Malak Sri GUru Hargobind Sahib Ji started the maryada of respecting shasters. He would
never place on a shaster without reciting the first 5 Gurus names. Nasroo Mansoor Guru Gobind SIngh,
never put on a shaster without reciting the names of the first 9 Gurus. Sad to say many modern day
SInghs just put on a Sri Sahib without following any maryada. They treat Sri Sahib likes its just some
piece of metal or its just some type of ornament.

Veerji, wouldn't that mean are Nitnem should be extended to 2 Jap Ji Sahibs a day, since one should be read with Chandi di var? Thus, 7 Bani's, plus Chandi di var, Aaarti, and Jap Ji Sahib making the grand total 10.

And as for Bir Raas, it is as hard as explaining the taste of naam.
Gunge ki mitaieee

Chandi Di Vaar is usually recited after Panj Bania. If one recites Panj Banai they dont have to recite Sri JapJi Sahib
again they just go straight to Chandi Di Vaar. On a side note we already recite JapJi Sahib twice a day.

ਜਬ ਦੋ ਪਹਿਰ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਹਾਥਿ ਪੈਰ ਧੋਵੈ, ਧੋ ਕਰ ਜਪੁ ਤੇ ਜਾਪੁ ਦੋਵੈਂ ਪੜੈ੍ l
Bhai Nand Lal JIs rehatnma

ਜੋ ਦੋਇ ਪਹਿਰ ਦਿਨੁ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਫੇਰਿ ਹਥ ਪੈਰ ਗੋਡਿਆ ਤਕ ਧੋਇ ਕਰਿ, ਇਕ ਵੇਰੀ ਜਪੁ, ਜਾਪੁ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਪੜੈ, ਫੇਰ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਰੈ।
prem sumarag

ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਪੜੈਯੋ, ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੁ ਦੁਇ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਪੈਯੋ

- Sri Guru Granth Parkaash

Your "on a side note" scheme is very annoying Sukhdeep Singh ji. Japji Sahib twice a day? Let me guess, another rehitnama of yours exclaims so. I find no harm in doing Japji Sahib 5 times a day, but which rehit states twice is a must ?

Bentee, please stay within the topic. Dhanwaad jee.


Here is the passage Bhai Sahib has mentioned from Gurmat Vichaar:



The fearless state of 'parupkaar' or beneficence is the pinnacle of naam maha-ras kamaiee. Only after reaching this state can someone be a par-upkaari (person dedicated to help others). Those whose spiritual state, through the power of meditation and baani, becomes such that it is beyond the body; those who make their jeevan rise above the self with spiritual power; those who are intoxicated with naam ras and have transcended their body and whose personal bhagti kamaiee is such that:

ਕਬੀਰ ਤੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਹੂਆ ਮੁਝ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਹੂੰ ॥
ਜਬ ਆਪਾ ਪਰ ਕਾ ਮਿਟਿ ਗਇਆ ਜਤ ਦੇਖਉ ਤਤ ਤੂ ॥੨੦੪॥

The meaning of the above vaak applies to them; those in whose every pore chardi kala bir ras is rising in waves, only that person can be a par-upkaari. The meaning of having this bir ras for par-upkaar is that if in front of them there are atrocities being inflicted on the weak, dharma is being insulted, injustice and tyranny are happening, they will have the instinct to protect the weak and defend the faith. But in this instinct, there is not even a trace of enemity or anger or ego. This instinct is the desire to sacrifice the body, mind, wealth and everything else. Only then can we know that true bir ras for par-upkaar has been born.

As this bir ras works inside, the naam khanda begins to vibrate with double the intensity. Inside this naam khanda is beating and outside, the sarblohi khanda is moving and destroying the tyrants and opposition. The internal connection to naam is not broken for even an instant: this is the mark of a bir-ras coloured par-upkaari warrior.

Sri Dashmesh jee says the following about this avastha:

ਧੰਨ ਜੀਓ ਤਿਹ ਕੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ ਜੁਧੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨ ਨਿੱਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਵ ਚੜੈ ਭਵਸਾਗਰ ਤਾਰੈ ॥ਧੀਰਜ ਧਾਮ ਬਨਾਇ ਇਹੈ ਤਨ ਬੁੱਧਿ ਸੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਜਿਉ ਉਜੀਆਰੈ ॥ ਗਯਾਨਹਿ ਕੀ ਬਢਨੀ ਮਨਹੁ ਹਾਥ ਲੈ ਕਾਤਰਤਾ ਕੁਤਵਾਰ ਬੁਹਾਰੈ ॥੨੪੯੨॥

The par-upkaari warrior has no fear of death and doesn't care about dying. He is not afraid of an army of hundreds of thousands facing him. He is jeevan mukat and those whom he dispatches with his sword, he gives them the sherbet of shahidi and makes them immortal. He then himself becomes a shahid. No one dies by his hand, instead, those who become a sacrifice for his Sri Sahib become immortal. It is for this reason that whenever any soldier in the opposing army was pierced by Sri Dashmesh jee's arrow he would say 'vah vah' and go into bliss, regardless of if he was Hindu or Muslim.

Tasting the shahidi ras of Baba Deep Singh jee's khanda, even those hearts burnt by hatred and enmity became cool and calm.

Shahid Baba Deep Singh's head was separated from his body, but the smiling and glowing face with its calmness remained unchanged. Having completed this game of sacrifice Baba jee's head rested on his left hand and watching the Hola of Shahidi around him. The headless body was still swinging the khanda and dispatching hundreds to death. No! No! Giving them a taste of shahidi sherbet! News of this is spreading far and wide and as a result the enemy army is scattering like ants in an instant. History is witness to this and Baba jee's name will remain for ages to come.

This is one example of the warrior spirit of the Guru-ghar's par-upkaar incarnate servants. This example is enough to demonstrate the bir-rasi parupkari's shaant ras (calm) avastha. This is the ideal of the bir-ras and shaant-ras Gurmat parupkar.

The meaning of this is that only those beloved Gurmukhs who rise above the body, walk with their head on their palm, with unbreakable connections (to naam) can become parupkaari bir-rasi bibekis whose connection is so solid that even under unspeakable torture it will not break and their glowing foreheads and internal shaant ras remain unchanged.

What power is it that kept warriors like Bhai Taru Singh, the embodiment of shaant ras, completely unmoved as his scalp was being removed? What power was it that kept beloved Bhai Vir Singh Naurangabad unmoving like a mountain, in smaadhi , as cannons boomed around him? What divine power was it that kept Bhai Mati Das, as he was being sawin alive, and Bhai Dayala jee in the boiling pot from feeling any pain? Which miraculous power was it that kept Bhai Mani Singh as he was being cut piece by piece, and Bhai Subeg Singh being broken on the wheel from even thinking of uttering a cry? It was only that solid connection to naam maha-ras. This is the enjoyment of supreme bliss. This is the state of chardi kala soorbirta. This is the true peace of treating pain and pleasure as the same. This is the high state of spiritual colours. This is the fearless state born from the true love and fear (of Vahiguru).

Without attaining this very state, true bir ras and the spirit of par-upkaar born from this are impossible. Here (in this state), bir ras and shaant ras are indistinguishable. This is the philosophy of Kalgidhar Paatshaah's Sarblohi Khanda, which Buddhists, Jains and Ahimsa-followers are unable to understand.


Translated by Sevadaars at Tapoban.org

Wonderful article SK ji, thank you for sharing it with everyone.

It is always better to do more Path. One can do 2 Sukhmani Sahibs, 20 Chaupai Sahibs or 5 Japji Sahibs, it all depends on the one's faith and desire.
Also, historically Singhs would read Chandi di Vaar before going into a battle. Nowadays, it makes no sense to do Path of this Bani, although one may choose to. There really isn't a necessity unless we are going for a battle.
Also, I don't understand what Russ Baani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji lacks that only a certain other Granth can fulfill. I thought our Guru was Pooraa.

Reading Dasam bani does not make SGGS ji adhoora as there is no rivalry between two granths.
Both granths are brothers. Rehatnama Bhai Chaupa singh states Guru sahib reading Chandi Di Vaar bani.

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Jaspreet Singh
Your "on a side note" scheme is very annoying Sukhdeep Singh ji. Japji Sahib twice a day? Let me guess, another rehitnama of yours exclaims so. I find no harm in doing Japji Sahib 5 times a day, but which rehit states twice is a must ?

Baba Ji, in my initial post I have already provided the historical references which tells us we should recite Sri JapJi Sahib
at least twice a day . What scheme am I plotting?

Quote

Also, historically Singhs would read Chandi di Vaar before going into a battle. Nowadays, it makes no sense to do Path of this Bani, although one may choose to. There really isn't a necessity unless we are going for a battle.

According to a majority of the historical text, the banis in Sri Dasam Granth were recited and written when Guru
Sahib was in battle with the Hill Chiefs and Mughals. IN the midst of these battles Guru Sahib created
the Khalsa panth which would have a strong combination of Sant and Warrior like qualities. In the AMrit Sanchar,
Guru Sahib included bir ras banis like Kabyo Bach Benti to give us courage and strength during battles. Does this mean
we should no longer recite this bani unless we are going to a war. Does it mean we should no longer bear shasters unless
we are going to a war. Does it mean there is no need for Dhadi anymore. Please enlighten us?

Quote

Also, I don't understand what Russ Baani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji lacks that only a certain other Granth can fulfill. I thought our Guru was Pooraa.

Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were not intended to prepare people for the physical battle field. However, banis in Sri Dasam Granth were
exclusively meant to create a warrior spirit and prepare the warrior for physical battle. Can you imagine SInghs choosing to recite Sri Sukhmani
Sahib instead of SRi CHandi Di Vaar before battle? .

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Your "on a side note" scheme is very annoying
> Sukhdeep Singh ji. Japji Sahib twice a day? Let me
> guess, another rehitnama of yours exclaims so. I
> find no harm in doing Japji Sahib 5 times a day,
> but which rehit states twice is a must ?
>
>
>
> Baba Ji, in my initial post I have already
> provided the historical references which tells us
> we should recite Sri JapJi Sahib
> at least twice a day . What scheme am I plotting?


Bill Gates Sahib on this forum is not me. It is someone from Calgary, Canada. How ironic, you have enemies lurking around everywhere. :O

>>>>>>>>>Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were not intended to prepare people for the physical battle field. However, banis in Sri Dasam Granth were
exclusively meant to create a warrior spirit and prepare the warrior for physical battle. Can you imagine SInghs choosing to recite Sri Sukhmani
Sahib instead of SRi CHandi Di Vaar before battle?<<<<<<<<<

Sikhs fought four battles during the reign of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, a time period when the writing of Dashmesh Pita had not yet come into existence, yet they fearlessly fought and won all four battles. As a matter of fact, the Sikhs during the times of Guru Hargobind Sahib were not even yet martially prepared to fight a battle, yet they withstood a battle against thousands of Mughals. I highly doubt you would last even a minute, had you been present in one of those battles.

Your statements made in your posts only reflect your faith and love for Gurbani. Your judgemental thoughts and views, however, are not backed up by any Gurbani Pangtee. And what is wrong with Singhs reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib before battle? Didn't Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji do continous rigorous Abyaas of Sukhmani Sahib Paths? Didn't he have Bir Russ? Have we forgotten the example when in jail, he tackled one of people who was in charge of the jail? Was that not Bir Russ? Did Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji read Chandi di Vaar? So, what you are saying, is that, the same Guru, Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, who through the Punj Pyaarey, gives Amrit di Daat and Naam to Abheylaakhis at the time of Amrit Sanchaar, lacks something? The living embodiment of the Ten Gurus, lacks some Russ? All this time, I thought Bani & Naam made one "Nirvair", and only God-fearing. All this time I thought Bir Russ had to do with the Russ of Naam, but you have proven both Gurbani & Naam wrong. What other theories do you harbor? Do feel free to share them.

vaheguru vaheguru!

jio, daas feels no enmity towards any forum member. please refrain from using such language for our brothers. but when a point doesn't make sense, or I disagree with it, I feel the need to voice my opinion.

sukhdeep singh ji, daas's name is not jaspreet singh. why would you assume such a thing.

maf karna ji.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, historically Singhs would read Chandi di
> Vaar before going into a battle. Nowadays, it
> makes no sense to do Path of this Bani, although
> one may choose to. There really isn't a necessity
> unless we are going for a battle.
>
> According to a majority of the historical text,
> the banis in Sri Dasam Granth were recited and
> written when Guru
> Sahib was in battle with the Hill Chiefs and
> Mughals. IN the midst of these battles Guru Sahib
> created
> the Khalsa panth which would have a strong
> combination of Sant and Warrior like qualities. In
> the AMrit Sanchar,
> Guru Sahib included bir ras banis like Kabyo Bach
> Benti to give us courage and strength during
> battles. Does this mean
> we should no longer recite this bani unless we are
> going to a war. Does it mean we should no longer
> bear shasters unless
> we are going to a war. Does it mean there is no
> need for Dhadi anymore. Please enlighten us?
>
> Also, I don't understand what Russ Baani of Sri
> Guru Granth Sahib ji lacks that only a certain
> other Granth can fulfill. I thought our Guru was
> Pooraa.
>
> Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were not
> intended to prepare people for the physical battle
> field. However, banis in Sri Dasam Granth were
> exclusively meant to create a warrior spirit and
> prepare the warrior for physical battle. Can you
> imagine SInghs choosing to recite Sri Sukhmani
> Sahib instead of SRi CHandi Di Vaar before battle?
> .

Sukhdeep Singh,

Shri Guru Granth Sahib jee is the answer to ALL and EVERYTHING. Who is any mortal to say what anmol Gurbani is intended for? Didn't Shaheed Bhai Mengha Singh jee recite all of Shri Sukhmani Sahib in the battlefield of '84 attack before giving his last swaas?!?

I suggest you rethink and reword your post!

ਦਾਗੇ ਹੋਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਜੂਝਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਦਾਗੇ ਭਗਿ ਜਾਈ ॥
ਸਾਧੂ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੈ ਹਰਿ ਲਏ ਖਜਾਨੈ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥

Bhagatjot SIngh ,

WHen one praises bani of Sri Dasam Granth Ji it doesnt mean they are undermining bani of
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You or anyone else have no right to say one bani is higher
then another! Bani is Bani and anything uttered by Guru Sahib is Dhur Ki Bani.

Guru Sahib has said what the intentions of Sri Dasam Granth bani is over and over. The purpose
is for war. If you read our history you will notice Singhs would often recite banis like Chandi Di
Vaar before going off to battle. I dont know of any historical records of SInghs reciting Sukhmani Sahib
before fighting a war. Guru Sahib even recited CHandi Di Vaar before preparing Amrit.
You need to read the history and the bani before jumping to conclusions.

Baani is Baani, and there is no need for us to pass judgement as to which Baani is of higher status and which one is not. Such arguments and debates are futile. Baani is there for us to devour it and not argue about. Whether Siri Jaap Sahib or Siri Sukhmani Sahib - both are full of Amrit.

Having said that, Sukhdeep Singh jeeo, Dasam Granth contains Dhur kee Baani and literary work of Guru Sahib. Siri Jaap Sahib, and Siri Benti Chaupai Sahib are examples of Amritmai Sachkhandi Baanis (Dhur kee Baani); and Chaubees Avtaar, Chandi Charitter and the latter part of Chandi dee Vaar are examples of literary work of Guru Sahib which are mostly independent translation of Purans like Bhagvat Puraan and Markande Puraan. The reason for these translations has been given by Guru Sahib Himself - Dharamjudh ko Chaao.

To say that Singhs did not recite Siri Sukhmani Sahib before or during the battle, is such a naive statement to make. It's recorded in history that many great Shaheeds recited either Siri Jap jee Sahib or Siri Sukhmani Sahib at the time of their Shaheedi. Before going to battle you need to know that this world is false and this body is temporary. Siri Sukhmani Sahib ensures that the reciter realizes this and furthermore, these Baanis give great strength. Of course Siri Sukhmani Sahib can be and should be recited before and during a battle.

Kulbir Singh

Quote

Dasam Granth contains Dhur kee Baani and literary work of Guru Sahib. Siri Jaap Sahib, and Siri Benti Chaupai Sahib are examples of Amritmai Sachkhandi Baanis (Dhur kee Baani); and Chaubees Avtaar, Chandi Charitter and the latter part of Chandi dee Vaar are examples of literary work of Guru Sahib which are mostly independent translation of Purans like Bhagvat Puraan and Markande Puraan.

To claim banis like Sri Chandi De Vaar as mere literary translations of hindu text is pure blasphemy. Sri chandi Di Vaar is a devotional prayer to
Sri AKal Purakh. Many Gumukhs including Baba Harnam SIngh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji have included this
in their prayer life ( nitnem). Why would these Gurmukhs feel the need to read "literary translations" on a daily basis? Please take back these
offensive statements.

Quote

To say that Singhs did not recite Siri Sukhmani Sahib before or during the battle, is such a naive statement to make. It's recorded in history that many great Shaheeds recited either Siri Jap jee Sahib or Siri Sukhmani Sahib at the time of their Shaheedi. Before going to battle you need to know that this world is false and this body is temporary. Siri Sukhmani Sahib ensures that the reciter realizes this and furthermore, these Baanis give great strength. Of course Siri Sukhmani Sahib can be and should be recited before and during a battle.

I specifically said Singhs recited bir ras banis from Sri Dasam Granth before going into battle. I did not say they would recite banis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as they were leaving this world. Please provide one historical incident in which SInghs recited banis like Sukhmani Sahib before facing the battlefield. Read the sections about " Bir Ras" written by Bhai Sahib in his book Gurmat Bibek. There is a reason why he only quotes banis from Sri Dasam Granth and no Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when mentioning Bir Raas. Why doesnt Bhai Sahib quote from Sukhmani Sahib or any other bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sukhdeep Singh, I have never yet responded to any of your messages over the years that have been anti-gurmat but today I just couldn't help myself. I'll try to say this in the most loving way possible, but you are absolutely confused on your theories of Gurmat, and it can have a very negative effect on those young people reading this forum who take what they read as truth without doing further research. So first benti, please stop the mentioning of
your controversial theories.

1) Please stop mentioning Chandi Di Var is neccessary for all Singhs. Puratan marayda that you have read is OBIOUSLY reffering to Ardas. It's not that hard to put together when you read the mention of Chandi di Var in rehetnameh or historical texts that Chandi di Var is reffering to Ardas. You seem to have a lot of knolwedge of historical documents, which I cant match, but your understanding is way off. For instance, your mention that Chandi di Var was read before the first Amrit Sinchar, is LUDICROUS. This is OBVIOUSLY talking about Ardas. No one on this forum, No Gyanee, No Mahapurkh, not even the lonely old man who lives with his cat down my street agrees with you. So, please stop mentioning this. We have heard your opinion many times on it i think that is enough. The same with Aaarti is, I can't stress this word enough, OBVIOUS, that Aaarti is reffering to keertan sohela. Mandatory Bani's of a Gursikh are Jap Ji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tuaprasad Svaiey, Choupie Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib and Keertan Sohela and nothing else!

2) Outside of Nitnem Banian, as per Bhai Randhir Singh, and other prominent Mahapurkhs, the most essential Bani is Sukhmani Sahib. Until we get Sukhmani constantly into our nitnem, only then should we try to add other bani's.

3)Please try another perspective of thinking when you analyze historical documents. It's ironic that you say the whole bani of Chandi di Vaar is metaphorical yet you don't use this same logic with rehitnameh. Rehitnameh shouldn't always be taken literal, there's a certain way weshould approach them. Plus, you don't try hard enough to differ from the real Rehitnameh and those that are fake/altered. The only book on Rehit that is 100% truth over the past century is Gurmat Bibek by Bhai Sahib Rhanndir Singh as this was made recently, and Bhai Sahib's avastha is known to the three worlds. Old rehitnameh can always be disputed

Conclusion, stop mentioning wild theories that noone agree's with over and over. One time is enough, even that is pushing it. Please keep the opinions to yourself. I say this only because it leads to confusion, and because you are the only person who believes in your theories, if there is more than one person supporting you, that is fine, otherwise, please stop

Quote

To claim banis like Sri Chandi De Vaar as mere literary translations of hindu text is pure blasphemy. Sri chandi Di Vaar is a devotional prayer to Sri AKal Purakh. Many Gumukhs including Baba Harnam SIngh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji have included this in their prayer life ( nitnem). Why would these Gurmukhs feel the need to read "literary translations" on a daily basis? Please take back these offensive statements.

I mentioned that the latter part (not the former part that contains Ardaas and true state of Avtaars) of Chandi dee Vaar is an independent translation or literary work that explains the battle between Durga and Assurs like Mahikhasur.

I am sorry if you found my statements offensive but most pro-Dasam Granth scholars agree that there are both literary and Dhur-kee-Baani compositions in Dasam Granth. Krishnavtaar is an example of a literary work. Chandi Charitters too are literary work (though there are Dhur kee Baani passages in these Baanis as well). Same holds true for Chandi dee Vaar too. The beginning part seems like Dhur kee Baani and the latter part showing fight between Durga and Mahikhasur etc. seems like a literary composition.

If you say that latter part of Chandi dee Vaar explaining fight between Durga and Mahikhasur is Dhur kee Baani and not Guru Sahib literary composition then you will also have to admit that Chaubees Avtaar including Krishnavtaar is Dhur kee Baani and not a literary composition of Guru Sabib.

Kulbir Singh

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If you say that latter part of Chandi dee Vaar explaining fight between Durga and Mahikhasur is Dhur kee Baani and not Guru Sahib literary composition then you will also have to admit that Chaubees Avtaar including Krishnavtaar is Dhur kee Baani and not a literary composition of Guru Sabib.

Any words coming from the mouth of my holy father is Dhur Ki Bani. Sri Chandi Di Vaar is Dhur Ki Bani, Krishnavtaar is Dhur ki bani, CharitroPakhyan is dhur ki bani.

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Sikhs fought four battles during the reign of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, a time period when the writing of Dashmesh Pita had not yet come into existence, yet they fearlessly fought and won all four battles. As a matter of fact, the Sikhs during the times of Guru Hargobind Sahib were not even yet martially prepared to fight a battle, yet they withstood a battle against thousands of Mughals. I highly doubt you would last even a minute, had you been present in one of those battles.

Yes Dasam Bani was not available during times of 6th guru. However, Gursikhs would recite Dhaadi Vaars before going into battle. This tradition still goes on at Sri AKal Takht. What do you mean Sikhs of Guru Hargobind Sahib were not ready to fight a battle. Guru Sahib was a master of Gatka . Gursikhs were well prepared during these times.

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Your statements made in your posts only reflect your faith and love for Gurbani. Your judgemental thoughts and views, however, are not backed up by any Gurbani Pangtee. And what is wrong with Singhs reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib before battle? Didn't Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji do continous rigorous Abyaas of Sukhmani Sahib Paths? Didn't he have Bir Russ? Have we forgotten the example when in jail, he tackled one of people who was in charge of the jail? Was that not Bir Russ? Did Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji read Chandi di Vaar? So, what you are saying, is that, the same Guru, Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, who through the Punj Pyaarey, gives Amrit di Daat and Naam to Abheylaakhis at the time of Amrit Sanchaar, lacks something? The living embodiment of the Ten Gurus, lacks some Russ? All this time, I thought Bani & Naam made one "Nirvair", and only God-fearing. All this time I thought Bir Russ had to do with the Russ of Naam, but you have proven both Gurbani & Naam wrong. What other theories do you harbor? Do feel free to share them.

Nobody is saying one should not read Sukhmani Sahib before battle. In fact is mandatory to read some bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji along
with Bani of Sri Dasam Granth. This way shant ras and bir ras work hand in hand. For your information Bhai Sahib recited CHandi Di Vaar daily
along with Sri AKalt Ustat and Bachitar Natak.

1) Please stop mentioning Chandi Di Var is neccessary for all Singhs. Puratan marayda that you have read is OBIOUSLY reffering to Ardas. It's not that hard to put together when you read the mention of Chandi di Var in rehetnameh or historical texts that Chandi di Var is reffering to Ardas. You seem to have a lot of knolwedge of historical documents, which I cant match, but your understanding is way off. For instance, your mention that Chandi di Var was read before the first Amrit Sinchar, is LUDICROUS. This is OBVIOUSLY talking about Ardas. No one on this forum, No Gyanee, No Mahapurkh, not even the lonely old man who lives with his cat down my street agrees with you. So, please stop mentioning this. We have heard your opinion many times on it i think that is enough. The same with Aaarti is, I can't stress this word enough, OBVIOUS, that Aaarti is reffering to keertan sohela. Mandatory Bani's of a Gursikh are Jap Ji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tuaprasad Svaiey, Choupie Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib and Keertan Sohela and nothing else!

If you think Gursikhs dont believe we should recite Chandi di Vaar or Aarti daily then you are living in a fantasy world. Giani Gurbachan SIngh Ji
mentions in his book that Aaarti was recited daily in Puratan times. Most historical Gurdwaras keep this tradition. Perhaps you know more then themand they should be singing kirtan sohila after rehras instead of Aaarti. I have provided way too much evidence on a separate thread about Aaarti there is no reason for me to go into detail again. In regards to Sri Chandi Di Vaar . I have not made up this rehat myself.
I have simply quoted Bhai Daya SIngh Jis rehatnama which states to recite Chandi Di Vaar everyday.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰੇ, ਚੰਡੀ ਕੰਠ ਸੁਧਾਰਿ ।
Praise AKal Purakh and recite Chandi DI Vaar through memory.

Chandi Di Vaar use to be Ardas for Gursikhs. This is why many Gursikhs still stand while reciting this prayer. Refer to recording by Baba Nihal SIngh Ji. You state GUru Sahib reciting CHandi DI Vaar before AMrit Sanchar is ludicrous. THis is mentioned in Sri Guru Panth Parkaash. It specifically says Chandi Bani.

ਬਹੁੜ ਸੱਵਯ ਬੱਤੀ ਉਚਾਰੇ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖ ਸਵਾਰੇ
ਤੇਜ ਤੇਜ ਜੋ ਚੰਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਊ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਏ ਮੱਧੈ ਠਾਣੀ॥੯॥

Another passage in Sri Guru Panth Parkaah mention Guru Sahib giving the following Hukum
ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਪੜੈਯੋ, ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੁ ਦੁਇ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਪੈਯੋ
ਔੌਰ ਅਨੰਦ ਰਹਿਰਾਸ ਜਪਯੋ, ਚੰਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਖੜੇ ਪੜੈਯੋ
Read Gurbani. Recite Jap andJaap twice a day. Recite
Anand Sahib and Rehars. Recite Chandi Di Vaar while standing.
Bhai Rattan Singh- Sri Guru Panth Parkaash

Once again there is mention of standing while reciting Chandi Di Vaar. Thus; we can conclude Chandi Di Vaar
was and still is a from of Ardas ( prayer).

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2) Outside of Nitnem Banian, as per Bhai Randhir Singh, and other prominent Mahapurkhs, the most essential Bani is Sukhmani Sahib. Until we get Sukhmani constantly into our nitnem, only then should we try to add other bani's.

Im not a follower of Bhai Sahib Im a follower of Guru Sahib. I quote rehatnamay and historical documents to encourage fellow Gursikhs to recite more bani and improve their rehat; I dont quote rehatnamey and historical pangtis to confuse people. How am I trying to confuse people by encouraging them to recite more bani. What is wrong with improving ones nitnem according to puratan standards. Yes, Puratan Gursikhs recited Sukhmani Sahib along with many other banis. But the best way to promote certain banis is by using historical references. THere is alot of mention of Chandi Di Vaar and for this reason I use these sources to encourage other Gursikhs to recite more bani. Unfortunately, there are liberal sikhs like you who are stating chandi di vaar just refers to the 1 pauri of ardas. More is better.

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Any words coming from the mouth of my holy father is Dhur Ki Bani. Sri Chandi Di Vaar is Dhur Ki Bani, Krishnavtaar is Dhur ki bani, CharitroPakhyan is dhur ki bani.

Is this why you believe that Kharag Singh is an imaginary character?

On one hand you believe Krishnavtar to be Dhur kee Baani which means it is all Sach but on the other hand you believe that Kharag Singh is an imaginary character. Please make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

Dhur kee Baani contains only Sach i.e. Truth. Dhur kee Baani is Truth and it contains only Truth and there is not an iota of falsehood in it. Please make up your mind whether Krishnavtar is Dhur kee Baani or not. If you consider it Krishnavtar to be Dhur kee Baani, you will also have reverse your previous stand that Kharag Singh is an imaginary character.

Kulbir Singh

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Is this why you believe that Kharag Singh is an imaginary character?

I still believe Kharag SIngh is an imaginary character. Why do you assume Guru Sahib
can not use imaginary/mythological characters as a means to deliever a message?

Chandi Di Vaar is not about a battle bewteen Durga and Mahakisur as you claim; instead
the bani is about a battle between Good and Evil. Guru Sahib used famous characters as
a means to depict this daily battle between good and bad. You are studying Sri
Dasam Granth form an objective lense instead of studying subjectively. You are trying to make
logic over the historical characters and historical chronology in such bani. If Chandi Di Vaar
is a remaking of the Puranas then please tell me why are Muslims ( quazi) mentioned . Quazis
did not even exist during the creation of the puranas. Quazis did not even exist during the time
of the old testament which is much newer then the Puranas.

I beg pardon as i could not reply as i was on travel.

Sikhs in the past have been reciting Dasam bani as part of nitnem. Bhai sahib Bhai randhir Singh ji had been reciting Chadi di vaar
and bachitra natak everyday.this i know from personal account ofv Bhai sahib's relatives.We have collections of his eprsonal effects such as sri sahib that has incription of tuks from dasam Bani.

There is also a sandesh from Bhai Surat ji for singhs of AKJ when there was a tendency among opponents of dasam bani to belittle it
on one or the pther pretext.Press note can be viewed here.

[tapoban.org]

Singhs of Babbar khalsa who sacrificed their lives especially Bhai sulakhan singh used to do 25 paths that of cahndi di vaar daily.There is an evidence to that effect.

Those who are not conversant with puratan maryada should seek clarification from singhs in India. ton read Dasam bani or not is personal choice of individuals but we should not minimise its historical importance singhs of charhdi kala.