Gurbani by numbers

Recently daas was asked by a member of the sangat at local Gurdwara sahib to contribute seva towards 125,0000 paths of Benti Chopai that sangat needs to do as a collective effort. Apparently some 'mahapurakh' has said that if sangat completes this target a collective ardaas will be done. This all is being done for a specific purpose about the building of the gurughar. Daas was given a target of 1100 path.

First of all daas has never done anything like this before. But out of curiosity daas has been trying to do these paaths. Very first observation daas made about this whole exercise is that most of my time was focussed on remembering the count of how many paths had been done which is a big distraction in enjoying the ras of Gurbani.

What are the views of members on this forum? Is this practice of counting the gurbani paaths right according to gurmat? If yes then how do you get away from the distraction of remembering the count while focussing on the bani. If not why is this practice not in line with gurmat. Please share your views.

IkOngkaarSreeVahigurooJiKiFateh!
VahiguroojiKaKhalsaVahigurooJiKiFateh!

Dass feels that it is Ok to read Gurbani by numbers, but at the same time telling others that one has done 'x' number of paaths is not good. It affects the spiritual jeevans.
The japping rosary or mala, for example, also has a finite number of beads. You get aware when you've completed certain number of malas.
This is from a personal experience:
Dass asked a Gupt Singh (not to be disclosed) the same question. His first remark was, "Guru Gobind Singh also counted banis for AmritVela and AmritSinchaar. They were in all five. Then what's the harm in counting and reading Baani."
He cautioned that "Counting and reading Baani is beneficial only when you are free of ego, i.e., you do boast others that you do certain number of paaths."

Dass
Harleen Singh

look at it this way :

what was before the count -- bit of sharda or nothing ?

then came the count - started getting somewhere -- no - now there is shanka on the count as being detrimental to Gurbani abyaas

Your own mind/ego is playing the trick - that is it's way it will keep thinking that way till you tire it out by just doing it

so just do it -- and count afterwards!

For many, the counting of Paaths works wonderfully but for others it causes tension and as Akaal74 jee pointed out, it keeps the mind engaged in counting. The main thing is to do Paath and Simran. If doing Paath by having a certain target for the day, works for you, results in you doing more Paath, and brings Anand to you, then you should continue to do Paath this way.

We have seen in history that many Gurmukh Pyare used to do Paaths and Simran during the day, by having a lofty target. Take an example of Sant Attar Singh jee Mastuanewale who did 125,000 Paaths of Siri Jap jee Sahib at Hazur Sahib. He used to have a target of doing 175 Paaths a day and he met this target everyday. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee too used to do x number of Paaths a day, and this resulted in his Avastha rising.

If at a certain point, one finds out that counting Paaths is being detrimental to your Avastha, then you should discontinue and just do Paaths all day long, with Anand, without focusing on the number of Paaths.

It's not wrong to have a target for the day when doing Paaths and also there is nothing wrong in just doing Paaths all day long, with Anand, without caring about how many Paaths you did. Do what works for you.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib, first ask yourself this, if you had not been told to do 1100, would you have ever completed these paths. If you had not given a bachan do finish them, would you have completed these paths? Having a target goal, in my opinion is one of the, if not the best way to increase your nitnem. At the beggining your mind may not be focussed on Gurbani, but this is the same for any situation. If your mind won't wonder on the numbers, then it will wonder somewhere else. However, Guru Sahib has stated "Sunieh, lageh sehaj dhian." By listening over and over, eventually the mind will concentrate on gurbani. The first efforts, no matter how we do it, will be with our minds wavering.

Someone mentioned that counting the number of paths leads to ego. This could not be more wrong. No matter what reason we engage in Gurbani/Naam Abiyass, the end result will be the killing of ego. Even if for example, one sets out to do a Sukhmani Sahib path for the purpose of showing off to others that he does one sukhmani path everyday, the power of Gurbani outweighs the persons egotistical intentions. That persons level of ego will decrease, rather than increase, after doing a Sukhmani Sahib path, even though his intention were wrong.

It is also proved psychologically, when studying, the best way to complete ones work is to set out to do spend a certain amount of time studying, or memorizing a set amount of facts in a day. The goal should also be reachable. If someone aims for a goal that is TOO high, and he is unable to complete it, then eventually they give up all together, and they don't try completing it at all.

I dont like to set a certain amount of paat i should have done by the end of the day...i just do it when im not doing amything...any breath that isnt used for speech, use it for gurbani

Daas
Binodh Singh

Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, pl do add the detail about Bhai Randhir Singh Ji doing X no. of paths.

Today, I went to Sri Harminder Sahib. A bibi ji was sitting near the entrance and was asking the sangat coming out, if they are ready to do Sri Jap Ji Sahib before the Gurpurab of Sri Guru Ram Dass Ji. I stopped a while to see the response she was getting for this request. She told that Bhai Gur Iqbal Ji has set a target of some thosuands of Jap Ji Sahib before October 2012 Gurpurab. She contacted three persons and could not get any positive response. I offered for five PATHS and she quickly wrote 725 in her diary. She thought that I was saying five PATHS a day for the full year. She also showed a similar entry of 725 in her diary. But I requested her to correct it to only 5 PATH during this year. She did it. May be she was not very happy with my poor offer.

Quote

Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, pl do add the detail about Bhai Randhir Singh Ji doing X no. of paths.

From Jail Chithiaan:

ਜੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਅੱਕ ਥੱਕ ਜਾਵਾਂ ਜਾਂ ਮਨ ਅੜੀ ਕਰ ਖੜੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਫੇਰ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਤਹੋਡਾ ਦੇਣ ਲਈ ਹਠ ਕਰਕੇ ਮਧ ਲਵਾਂ ਕਿ ਐਨੀਆਂ ਪੱਕੀਆਂ ਮਾਲਾਂ ਫੇਰ ਕੇ ਸਾਹ ਲੈਣਾ ਹੈ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਹਰ ਵਕਤ ਮੇਰੇ ਹੱਥ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਸੀ। ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਨੇ ਬੜੀ ਹੀ ਸਹਾਇਤਾ ਦਿਤੀ, ਛਿਨ ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਭੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੇ ਤੋਂ ਉਕਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਦਿਤਾ ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਦੀਆਂ ਕਲਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ ਜਾਪ ਪਦਵੀ ਤੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਜਾ ਚਾੜ੍ਹਿਆ। ਹੱਥ ਜਦ ਸਚੀ ਕਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਤਦਰੂਪ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਤਾਂ ਮਾਨੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਮੁਜੱਸਮ ਸਾਵਧਾਨਤਾ ਹੀ ਬਣ ਗਿਆ। ਆਲਸ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ, ਦਲਿੱਦਰ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ। ਥਕੇਵਾਂ ਅਕੇਵਾਂ ਤੇ ਢਿੱਲਪੁਣਾ ਖ਼ਬਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿੱਧਰ ਨੱਸ ਭੱਜ ਗਏ।

Bhai Sahib has written above that in order to stay in Chardi Kala he used to vow to do x amount of Mala of Naam. This passage proves that it's not against Gurmat to set a target of doing x amount of Paaths of Simran for the day or a given time. Normally he did not get indulged in how much Simran he was doing, nor he was counting it but when his mind became weak or he felt some fatigue, he employed the method of setting a target amount of Mala of Naam Simran. Of course, this was before he attained Darshan of Vaheguru jee.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, pl do add the detail about
> Bhai Randhir Singh Ji doing X no. of paths.
>
> From Jail Chithiaan:
>
> ਜੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਅੱਕ ਥੱਕ
> ਜਾਵਾਂ ਜਾਂ ਮਨ ਅੜੀ ਕਰ
> ਖੜੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਫੇਰ ਮਨ
> ਨੂੰ ਤਹੋਡਾ ਦੇਣ ਲਈ ਹਠ
> ਕਰਕੇ ਮਧ ਲਵਾਂ ਕਿ
> ਐਨੀਆਂ ਪੱਕੀਆਂ ਮਾਲਾਂ
> ਫੇਰ ਕੇ ਸਾਹ ਲੈਣਾ ਹੈ,
> ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ
> ਮਾਲਾ ਹਰ ਵਕਤ ਮੇਰੇ
> ਹੱਥ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ
> ਸੀ। ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ
> ਦੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਨੇ ਬੜੀ ਹੀ
> ਸਹਾਇਤਾ ਦਿਤੀ, ਛਿਨ
> ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਭੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੇ
> ਤੋਂ ਉਕਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਦਿਤਾ
> ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਦੀਆਂ ਕਲਾਂ
> ਵਾਲੀ ਜਾਪ ਪਦਵੀ ਤੇ
> ਮੈਨੂੰ ਜਾ ਚਾੜ੍ਹਿਆ।
> ਹੱਥ ਜਦ ਸਚੀ ਕਾਰ ਵਿਚ
> ਤਦਰੂਪ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਤਾਂ
> ਮਾਨੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਮੁਜੱਸਮ
> ਸਾਵਧਾਨਤਾ ਹੀ ਬਣ
> ਗਿਆ। ਆਲਸ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ,
> ਦਲਿੱਦਰ ਦੂਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ।
> ਥਕੇਵਾਂ ਅਕੇਵਾਂ ਤੇ
> ਢਿੱਲਪੁਣਾ ਖ਼ਬਰ ਨਹੀਂ
> ਕਿੱਧਰ ਨੱਸ ਭੱਜ ਗਏ।
>
> Bhai Sahib has written above that in order to stay
> in Chardi Kala he used to vow to do x amount of
> Mala of Naam. This passage proves that it's not
> against Gurmat to set a target of doing x amount
> of Paaths of Simran for the day or a given time.
> Normally he did not get indulged in how much
> Simran he was doing, nor he was counting it but
> when his mind became weak or he felt some fatigue,
> he employed the method of setting a target amount
> of Mala of Naam Simran. Of course, this was before
> he attained Darshan of Vaheguru jee.
>
> Kulbir Singh


What is the meaning of ਮੁਜੱਸਮ?

Thank you Veer Kulbir Singh Ji for reproducing the inspiring words of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji. I think you will agree with me that the target of Bhai Sahib was of different nature as compared to the target of doing x no of paths (as being said in the present context). It may be difficult for me to explain the difference. But I have a feeling that this modern custom of fixing a target and then distributing a part of it to others is not a good practice.

We can have our own targets, but why request others for it? Bhai Sahib Ji did not distribute the targets to others. His targets were for himself.

Nevertheless, times have changed. It is machine age. We need to respond to our fellow Gursikhs very humbly, even if we do not agree with them.