ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥
Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Question on Taksal

Posted by mahamoorkh 
Question on Taksal
October 19, 2011 06:42PM
I don't want this topic to turn into a debate, but is there proof damdami Taksal was started by Guru Gobind Singh Jee. It's important this is discussed. Many gursikhs say Bhai Sundar Singh started Taksal off.

Please keep on topic!
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 19, 2011 09:38PM
This is coming from a personal viewpoint. My own personal views on the Taksal. You may agree or may not agree. I may be wrong. I have no links to the official Taksal. My views are not 100% in line with the modern day Taksal. I have just studied under one of the students of the various branches of the Damdami Taksal, learning santhia and some knowledge, which I believe to go back to Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

It is claimed by Taksali Singhs that their lineage goes back to Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Even Mahapurkhs like Sant Jarnail Singh, Sant Kartar Singh state that this is Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s Taksal. I see nothing wrong with this statement. The Taksal definitely has its traces to the teachings Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave in 1706 at Damdama Sahib. However, saying the teachings from then have been preserved 100% and EVERYTHING is the same, does not make sense. It is quite obvious that everything cannot be the same. The modern day Taksal, is so much different maryada wise, (i.e. importance of sarbloh, bibek etc.) even from the times of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee, who was the Jathedar 50-60 years ago. Having said that, the Taksal has legitimate claim to say their style of santhia and arths (meanings of Gurbani) go back to the teachings imparted by Guru Gobind Singh Jee to the Sangat at Damdama Sahib.

The Tradition of Gurmat knowledge was started at Sri Damdama Sahib by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. This has been mentioned in Older Granths, such as Sooraj Parkash and Naveen Panth Parkash. To continue the Gurmat Teachings a Gurmat Centre was set up by Baba Deep Singh at Damdama Sahib. The Meaning of the word Taksal in Mahaan Kosh:

ਟਕਸਾਲ - takasāla
ਟੰਕਕਸ਼ਾਲਾ. ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਟਕੇ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਘਰ. ਉਹ ਮਕਾਨ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਰੁਪਯਾ ਆਦਿ ਸਿੱਕੇ ਬਣਾਏ ਜਾਣ,. Mint.
੨. ਭਾਵ- ਸਤਸੰਗ। "ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ." (ਜਪੁ )
੩. ਉੱਤਮ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਾ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲੀ ਪਾਠਸ਼ਾਲਾ.

ਟਕਸਾਲੀ - takasālī
ਟਕਸਾਲ ਨਾਲ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਸੰਬੰਧ।
੨. ਉੱਤਮ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਰਹਿਕੇ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਵਿਦ੍ਯਾ ਅਤੇ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਹੈ.
Bhai Kahn Singh, under the Dasam Granth writes about the Taksal’s existence in the 18 century.

ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੯੪ ਵਿੱਚ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾ ਸੱਚਾ ਨਮੂਨਾ ਦੱਸਕੇ ਲਹੌਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਹੋਏ. ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਦੇਹਾਂਤ ਪੁਰ ਪੰਥ ਨੇ ਦਸਮਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਦਮਦਮੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਜੋ ਉਸ ਸਮੇਂ ਵਿਦ੍ਯਾ ਦੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ (ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਾਸ਼ੀ ਕਰਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ) ਸੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਲਈ ਭੇਜ ਦਿੱਤਾ.

Now the question is that if this Taksal was doing parchar then, is it still around today? My personal belief is that there is no single Taksal, or single group that is THE Taksal of Baba Deep Singh. There are many groups and jathe that have links to the original Taksal at Damdama Sahib. We cannot say that there has been one Taksal since the time of Baba Deep Singh, there have been many small Taksals that have grown. Just like when a tree grows, it has one large trunk, but from that trunk many larger branches grow, from those branches even more branches grow, and from them even more, and then twigs grow, and then leaves.

An example is:



So all these singhs went around doing parchar and setting up various centres of Vidhia, where santhia, katha is taught. Various lineages have started from it. And the arths of Gurbani have been passed down seena-baseena, orally throughout history. One famous lineage is the Bhindrawale Jatha. Sant Sundar Singh Jee had gained knowledge from Baba Bishan Singh Jee and had come back to his birth village of Bhindree. However the Jathedar of Baba Bishan Singh Jee’s branch of the Taksal, was not Sant Sunder Singh, it was another Gurmukh Pyara. Sant Sundar Singh came home and started teaching. From them, many students learned, one of them being Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee. Who would later pass on the seva to Sant Kartar Singh Jee, and then later on to Sant Jarnail Singh Jee, who would make the Taksal famous. This branch of the Taksal, undoubtedly the most famous branch, then became to be known as the Damdami Taksal. Every branch of the Taksal that has developed since the time of Baba Deep Singh has the right to call themselves the Damdami Taksal, as their knowledge base originates from the original Taksal of Baba Deep Singh that was based at Damdama Sahib. However, this one being the most famous, they gained the most fame as being the Damdami Taksal.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 04:52AM
੧.ਟਕਸਾਲ ਦਾ ਮੁਖ ਦਫ਼ਤਰ ਇਸ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਦਮਦਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਨੇ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਉਥੋਂ ਚਲਾਈ ਹੈ ਨਾ ਕੀ ਭਿੰਡਰਾਂ ਜਾਂ ਮਹਿਤੇ ਤੋਂ !
੨.ਕੀ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਨੇ ੧੬੯੯ ਚ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਸਾਜਨ ਤੋਂ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਦਮਦਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤਕ ਅਪੜਨ ਤਕ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ ਚ ਕੋਈ ਘਾਟ ਜਾਂ ਓਹਲਾ ਰਖ ਲਿਆ ਸੀ ਕੀ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਇਹ ਘਾਟ ਜਾਂ ਓਹਲਾ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਚਲਾ ਕੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ !
੩.ਕੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਵਲੋਂ ਵਰੋਸਾਏ ਹੋਏ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ ਜੋ ਇਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਡ ਇਕ ਸੰਸਥਾ ਚਲਾਉਣੀ ਪਾਈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਗਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਥਾ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰੋੜਤਾ ਕੀਤੀ !ਜੋ ਹੁਣ ਤਕ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਵਿਚ ਚਲੀ ਆ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ !
੪. ਬਚਪਨ ਤੋਂ ਦਾਸ ਇਹ ਸੁਣਦਾ ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਸੀ ਕੀ ਦਮਦਮੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਚਲਾਈ ਜੇ ਇਹ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਵਲੋਂ ਚਲਾਈ ਮੰਨ ਲਈਏ ,ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਬਾਬਾ ਤੋਂ ਸੰਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਪਦਵੀ ਤਕ ਕਿੰਵੇ ਅਪੜ ਗਈ !
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 04:53AM
Anyone who has taken the Khande Baate da Amrit has direct relation with Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When our pita is Guru Gobind Singh who can challenge our lineage.

"Ek Pita Ekas Ke Ham Barik"

So we all are part of that overall taksaal called Gurmat Dharm.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 06:16AM
I personally researched on this matter but found no evidence till date.

If we look at a number of handwritten puratan saroops that are 300-120 years old in the panth. We will realize that a big number of them contain kachi bani like Ratanmala & Jit Dar Lakh Muhamadan and so on. Majority of Gurudhams were being taken care of mahants & Nirmalas. Many of them also wrote saroops. Readers can register here and see hand written saroops from the past, to get an idea what I mean:

[www.panjabdigilib.org]
(just search for SGGS jee)

If it was started by Guru Sahib, it must have had huge influence in the panth back in those days, logically speaking.

Lets assume if the linage that is said to have existed 300 years ago existed all this while. I on a personal level find it very difficult to believe that jathedaars of taksal from the past would have done nothing to stop kachi banis being added to saroops in the Panth. Yet today we see taksal for past 100 year as the most strong advocate that defends ragmala. (yes, i know globalization has occured but still think about it.)

Guru Saahib did teach at Damdama Sahib, history of it is also well recorded. But , the is no concrete evidence that links it to present day taksal. Anything devoid of evidence cannot be called history.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 07:02AM
Daas makes a humble benti to please spare this forum of this debate on Taksal.

This forum is the best in terms of promoting Gurmat.

This debate is probably better to do in sangat form face-to-face.

Lets learn from these great Gursikhs from Taksal, Sant Sundar Singh ji was a great Gursikh as was his father, Sant Khazaan Singh ji. Sant Jarnail Singh ji was at the forefront of the sikh struggle for rights/khalistan.

Also it is important to note that Gursikhs from both jatha's had pyar for each other despite differences, bhai Jeevan Singh ji - Sant Kartar Singh ji and bhai sahib bhai Randhir Singh ji - Sant Gurbachan Singh ji.

These debates have taken place on other forums and majority of time end up in a slandering match which benefits no-one.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 07:12AM
gsingh's post makes a lot of sense. We clearly see that the Jatha today is not what it used to be before 1914. The Jatha at the time of Bhai Sahib was much closer to Guru Sahib's Rehit, than it is today. We can say the same thing about Jatha Bhindran. Under Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale, Jatha Bhindran had a glorious time and under Dhuma now, it is at its worse level.

Are we to believe each word of Dhuma since he is sitting on the same seat as Sant Sundar Singh jee or Sant Gurbachan Singh jee? Can we claim that this Jatha is same today as it was 50 years ago? No. It is quite hard to retain and preserve the original tradition and Rehit, over the centuries.

It does not matter which Jathebandi is old and which one is new. What matters is which Jathebandi follows Guru Sahib's Hukams. Period.

Kulbir Singh
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Re: Question on Taksal
October 20, 2011 07:13AM
We have accepted "Gupt1" request and have decided to close this thread. We doubt, we will gain anything spiritual from this thread, if we go on. What has been said so far, is enough.

Admin.
Reply Quote TweetFacebook
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.