Who are the Nirmaley sect?

Who and what are the Nirmaley sect?

Why would Guru Sahib create a sect to study the Vedas.

Is this a authentic sect? I was at a camp that had a nirmala speaker, he was very confusing and he mentioned things that i just can not believe the True Guru would do, like creating other sects who didnt have to keep their kesh in tact etc.......

Nirmalas are part of the so-called "sanatan" tradition, blending sikhi with hinduism. there's some debate on whether they were really begun by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.

if they were sent by Guru Sahib, the logical explanation would be that since Sanskrit was considered a "holy language" of Hindus, and only brahmins were allowed to learn it, the Nirmalas were supposed to learn Sanskrit in order to open schools where it could be taught to Sikhs. in this way Sikhs could better understand that part of Gurbani which is written in Sanskrit. They could also teach Vedic history which is often mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, so Sikhs would not be dependent on brahmins for such knowledge. however, along the way, their interaction with Hindus seems to have influenced their behavior.
since modern Nirmalas view Amrit as optional, they cannot be considered Sikhs according to the definition of the Panthic Rehet Maryada.

I think within the Nirmala Samprada there are ones who strongly believe in being Amritdhari and there are ones who don't think it is mandatory to be Amritdhari. We are mainly concerned with the ones who believe it is mandatory to be Amritdhari. The ones who are not Amritdhari have been led astray and they don't concern us.

Within the Panth there are many organizations that have different practices but if they accept Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee as their Guru, believe in 10 Guru Sahibaan, believe and practice Khalsa initiation (Amrit Chhakna), then they are part of the Panth. Panthik Nirmalas have done great service to the Panth through their knowledge and teaching Gurbani.

I have only couple of reservations about Nirmalas. Nirmalas believe that Guru Sahib themselves sent 5 Sikhs to Kashi to learn Sanskrit and study Vedas. I don't believe Guru Sahib needed to send anyone to Kashi to learn Sanskrit. Siri Guru Sahib's Darbar was the greatest source of knowledge in those days. Great scholars of Sanskrit, Braj, Farsi and other languages and arts were at Guru Sahib's disposal right at Siri Paonta Sahib and Siri Anandpur Sahib. Guru Sahib themselves translated Sanskrit Granths to Braj and Punjabi. Why would they send someone to Kashi to learn Sanskrit?

Second reservation that this Daas has about Nirmala Veers is that they emphasize too much on Advaita Vedanta and interpret Gurbani through the lens of Advaita Vedanta. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was a fierce opponent of this practice and he has openly written against this in his books. I don't think Sikhi supports or is in agreement with Advaita, Vishishta Advaita or Duvaita. Gurmat is unique and different from all 5 main schools of Vedanta.

Another thing that really surprises me is that most prominent Sikh scholars from Nirmala background were opposed to Raagmala but today their descendants keep a deafening silence on this issue. Mahakavi Santokh Singh, Giani Gian Singh, Pandit Tara Singh Narotam, Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha etc. were fierce opponents of Raagmala.

Having said that, I respect the knowledge culture of Nirmalas. I respect their commitment to achieve their spiritual goals. I respect their contribution to preserve Sikh heritage during the times when Singhs were pushed to live in jungles (1700s). I respect their massive contribution to Sikhi parchaar through teaching Gurbani paath, Gurbani arths etc.

Kulbir Singh

Could you please explain what advaita vedanta is veerji?

not veerji, but if i may...

advaita vedanta is a branch of hinduism. they believe in one formless god (brahman), who occasionally takes sargun form (krishan, raam, etc). they believe that the whole world is maya, and only when we escape maya can we merge with brahman. they believe that we're simply a part of brahman but are deluded to believe we're separated because of maya. they also believe in the necessity of a human (dehdari) guru to get salvation.

as far as i know they do not have concept of Naam, but try to reach salvation through bhagti alone.

so SOME of their ideas are similar to sikhi. RSS type hindus use this to try to convince sikhs that we're part of the hindu dharm. but there are very large differences, most importantly the lack of emphasis on naam simran, and the need for a dehdari guru.

a very respected gursikh once told me that a famous follower advaita vedanta is waiting to take birth as a sikh so he can receive naam and reach sachkhand.

Bhain jeeo and Veer "Alas" jeeo,

Quote

they believe that we're simply a part of brahman but are deluded to believe we're separated because of maya.

This is the whole problem with Advaita that they don't believe the self to be part of Brahman (God) but believe that the Self is Brahman. The world is an illusion caused due to Avidya or Maya and the Self is same as Brahman. This is why they have slogans like अहम ब्रह्मास्मि (Aham brahmāsmi) which means "I am Brahman" i.e. I am God. Another Slogan of Advaita is - अयमात्मा ब्रह्म (Ayamātmā brahmā) which means that the Self (Atma) is Brahman.

They don't believe that the Self or the Atma merges with Brahman but believe that when the Maya or Avidya is burned, then one realizes that one is Brahman. So there is no merging with Brahman but just realizing that one is Brahman.

This is why, in Advaita, the way to attain Salvation is not Devotion (Bhagti) but Gyaan (Jnana). When one gets divine Gyaan one becomes Brahman.

Daas will be writing about Advaita in detail at a later point.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhain jeeo and Veer "Alas" jeeo,
>
>
>
> they believe that we're simply a part of brahman
> but are deluded to believe we're separated because
> of maya.
>
>
> This is the whole problem with Advaita that they
> don't believe the self to be part of Brahman (God)
> but believe that the Self is Brahman. The world is
> an illusion caused due to Avidya or Maya and the
> Self is same as Brahman. This is why they have
> slogans like अहम
> ब्रह्मास्मि (Aham
> brahmāsmi) which means "I am Brahman" i.e. I am
> God. Another Slogan of Advaita is -
> अयमात्मा ब्रह्म
> (Ayamātmā brahmā) which means that the Self
> (Atma) is Brahman.
>
> They don't believe that the Self or the Atma
> merges with Brahman but believe that when the Maya
> or Avidya is burned, then one realizes that one is
> Brahman. So there is no merging with Brahman but
> just realizing that one is Brahman.
>
> This is why, in Advaita, the way to attain
> Salvation is not Devotion (Bhagti) but Gyaan
> (Jnana). When one gets divine Gyaan one becomes
> Brahman.
>
> Daas will be writing about Advaita in detail at a
> later point.
>
> Kulbir Singh

It appears that many groups that sprung up during Singh Sabha Movement submit to this Advaita Vedanta philosophy. Yet they they state their group originates from Dasmi Paatshahs time. They go to the extent of calling themselves a" Puratan Samprada" its more like a "Sanatan Samprada"

Shame on such people who try to bahamnize Prem Bhagti.

When I went to Anandpur Sahib I remember seeing a Nirmala I think he fits in the category of "ones who don't think it is mandatory to be Amritdhari. " While we were listening to Kirtan in Gurdwara Sees Ganj I noticed the Nirmala Baba was singing with such devotion and passion while the AmritDhari Singhs did not seem to keen about the Keertan. This Baba Ji was singing so loud with passion he did not care who was around. It appeared that he was genuine and not faking it. He also seemed to be careless and completely indifferent to the world.

But I noticed two things about him.

1. He was uneducated about Sikhi principles. When it was time for rehras he got up arrogantly and felt like it was a ritual.
2. He was lonely; he was searching for God within yet he did not have Guru Sahib as his guidance.

I really felt sorry for such a person. His heart was at the right place. He had devotion and he was searching for God, but he did not understand he cant reach God and end lakh charsee without Guru Sahibs blessing. He seemed like someone who was serious about spirituality unfortunately he did not have a brother to guide him to the right direction. I remember when I saw him I felt like giving him a hug and telling him to take Amrit, but that would seem funny since I myself was not Amritdhari at the time. This was one of the experiences that made pushed me even further to taking Amrit. Even though this person was somewhat devoted to Gurbani he did not have the love of Guru Sahib in his heart so JaamKaal was still hoovering over his head it was a complete wake up call.Is it possible that these Nirmalas were orignally the KesDharis mentioned in the Rehatnamas. Is there any reference to Nirmalas in the Rehatnamey?

its a shame that such spiritual potential goes to waste in India. There are only a few rare places in India where thirsty souls can go to get where they are looking for. It seemed like many of the SInghs in Sri Anandpur Sahib were more into Politics and less into sprituality and Gurmat parchar .

I think this Baba purposely avoid Amrit and the Sikh Sangat perhaps he thought the Sikhs are to worldly , and have no desire for high spiritual goals. Hopefully he will eventually take Amrit one day. As Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned there must many nirmalas who have purposely strayed from Sikhi and try to devalue the purpose of Amrit such people should be avoided, but then there are the others who dont know the blessings of Amrit because nobody has taught them.

I am under the belief that the Nirmaleys were originally KesDhari Brahmins.

In the past the main protectors of the Brahmins were the Khatree but they abandoned their religion and started to adopt the ways of the Mughals. Guru Sahib mentions in Asa Di Var


ਖਤ੍ਰੀਆ ਤ ਧਰਮੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਮਲੇਛ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਗਹੀ ॥

The K'shatriyas have abandoned their religion, and have adopted a foreign language.


For this reason Brahmins have always turned to the Khalsa for shelter even before Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib sacrificed their life for the Kashmiri Brahmins. Shaheed Bhai Mati Das Ji, and Shaheed Bhai Sati Das were born as Brahmins before they took Amrit. Also Bhai Chuapa Singh Ji was also born as a Brahmin before taking Amrit.

The Turks knew that the Brahmins and their laws/customs needed to be completely wiped out for Islamic law to be in full effect. Thus the Brahimns had no where to turn to for help but the Khalsa. Many of them went to Anandpur Sahib for shelter.
Guru Sahib told Bhai Desa Singh Ji

ਗੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਕੀ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕਰੈ l ਤੁਰਕਨ ਸੋਂ ਅਤਿ ਹਠ ਕਰਿ ਮਰੈ

ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੱਘ ਜੀ

Protect the Brahmin and the Cow, and end the fanatical force of the Turks.



At Anandpur Sahib Dasmi Paatshah put these educated Brahmins to work. Eventually these Brahmins decided it was best to become Singhs so they started accepting the ways of Sikhi and Guru Ji gave them seva to do. Because these Brahmins were so use to their ancient rituals it was hard for them to give up some of their customs, and resort back to their trickery ways. Some of the customs that many could not give up were wearing the janue, wearing orange robes, and robbing the people. Guru Sahib made it clear that they must stay distinct and renounce all their clever ways if they want to be accepted as Sikh.

That KesDhari Sikh who wears a loincloth ( Brahmin robe) consider him an apostate.
ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਲੱਗੋਟ, ਸੋ ਭੀ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ

and

ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਬਗਲਬੱਦੀ ਜਾਮਾ ਪਾਏ ਸੋ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ

Those fake Kesdharis who wear orange robes regard them as apostates.

Even in the past the Pakhandi Brahmins would act like Muslims, adopt their ways when Hindus werent looking, and then they would act like Brahmins when the Muslims were not looking GUru Sahib says.


ਨਾਨਕ ਕੂੜੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੇੜਿ ਧੋਤੀ ਕਖਾਈ ॥
ਹਥਿ ਛੁਰੀ ਜਗਤ ਕਾਸਾਈ ॥
ਨੀਲ ਵਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
ਮਲੇਛ ਧਾਨੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥
ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥


O Nanak, they are totally permeated with falsehood.
The sacred marks are on their foreheads, and the saffron loin-cloths are around their waists;
in their hands they hold the knives - they are the butchers of the world!
Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers.
Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the Puraanas.
They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them,
but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas.


Guru States wanted to make sure that these Brahmins did not try to deceive the Singhs. So he warned us in numerous Rehatnamey. In rehatnama by Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji

In Bhai Nand LaLS rehatnama Guru Sahib states

ਅਤੇ ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਨ ਤਮਾਕੂ ਪੀਵੈ ਅਤੇ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਵੈ ਤਿਸ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਜੱਞੂ ਪਾਵਨਾ ਮਹਾਂ ਹਤਿਆ ਹੈ

ਕਿਓੁ ਤਮਾਕੂ ਅਤੇ ਗਓੂ ਮਾਸ ਖਾਵੈ,ਤਿਸਾ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਹੈ

that those Brahmins who use tobacco and eat meat, but then put on the janeu ( Brahmin thread) are the biggest butchers. Consuming tobacco ( hukkah of the Muslims) is as sinful was eating a Cow.



Guru Sahib then states that do not give to such Brahmins

ਤਿਸੁ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਨ ਨੂ ਦਾਨੁ ਨਾ ਦੇਣਾ

In Bhai Daya Singh Jis rehatnama Guru Sahib states the following

ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਚੋਰ ਹੈਂ, ਲੱਗੋਟ ਧੋਤੀ ਧਵਲੀ ਕਤਿ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਔ ਕੇਸ ਨਗਨ ਰਖੈ, ਸੋ ਮਹਾਂ ਨਰਕ ਭੋਗੈ

Theifs of the Guru include those whom wear a loincloth ( orange robe), and keep their heard uncovered. They will end up in hell.

A few lines down GUru Ji says

ਬਾਮ੍ਹ੍ਣ ਕੇਸ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਹਾਥ ਕਾ ਨ ਖਾਇ

That Bhaman who is without Kes and Amrit do not eat from such people.

Guru Sahib then states

ਦਨ ਨ ਦੇਇ ਜੋ, ਜੋ ਪਰਨਾਰੀ ਭੋਗੇ, ਫਾਰਸੀ ਪੜੈ੍, ਨਾ ਮੇਂ ਓੁਹਦਾ, ਨ ਵਹ ਮੇਰਾ

Do not give to those who enjoy multiple women ( other peoples wife), and read Farsi. I am not their Guru and they are not my Sikh.

It is clear from this rehatnama that any KesDhari Brahmins who practices the Islamic ways is a kurehati ( apostate). In the same pangti Guru Sahib then explains not to eat and drink from the hands of such people.

So it seems from these rehatnamey that perhaps these early KesDhari Brahmins use to collect money for Guru Sahib, and they were on the path of becoming full fledged Sikh.

The following rehatnama indicates that Brahmins were taking Amrit

ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ, ਤਾਂ ਓੁਸ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਟਹਲ ਕਰਨੀ ਦੂਣਾ ਨਫਾ

If a Brahmin becomes a Gursikh, then serve him and you will receive twice the benefit.

Because these Brahmins as KesDhari were in Gurus company the Singhs would serve them. But Guru Ji was saying that by serving Singhs one gets twice the benefit then just serving Kesdhari.

I believe that term Nirmala was perhaps a nickname for KesDhari Brahmins. Maybe because these KesDhari were still stuck in their purity/cleansiness rituals. Even today many Nirmalas wear a pinkish/orange robe, and many of them believe in the Advaita Vedanta philosophy as Bhai Kulbir SIngh Ji mentioned. Plus if Guru Sahib sent 5 nirmalas to Benares to study the Vedas then they must have been Brahmins, because only Brahmins were allowed to study the Vedas.

so is every keshdhari in an orange robe/orange dumalla a nirmala? or do regular singhs dress this way too?

i took this photo at gurdwara bangla sahib, delhi. he looked so serene and sat in the same place for hours. i didn't know much about sikhi at the time, and i just assumed he was a singh who chose to wear keseri.

thoughts?

I dont think so.

That Singh i wearing a Sri Sahib plus he has a khanda on his dastar. Also he has a black vest. Kesri is a color accepted in the panth. But I am often suspicious of any "Singh" who wears all orange withot a Sri Sahib.

Im referring to a type of Robe which can be seen here

[www.iloveindia.com]

Worn by Arya Samaj founder

ahh, yeah, that's a different style altogether.