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Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh

Posted by Kulbir Singh

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Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 10:38AM

Daas received these question in private email from someone. The answers to these questions are also herein.

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Can a normal sikh who isn't a gursikh do naam simran and whilst doing so with full dedication achieve Vak sidhi?
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First of all, no one can stop anyone from doing Naam Simran. One can chant Naam as one pleases. Secondly, if one wants some spiritual progress, then one must chant Naam after getting authorized to do so, from the true Guru. Now a days, one gets authority to Japp Naam, when one becomes Amritdhari. The whole purpose of becoming an Amritdhari is to obtain Naam and then chant Naam to meet Vaheguru.

In olden days when Guru Sahibaan used to be in human form, then Guru Sahib themselves gave Naam to the new candidates but since 1708, there can be no human Guru, therefore, Naam is given by Punj Pyare, in the Hazoori (presence) of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, at the time of Amrit Sinchaar. Only, Naam Abhyaas done after receiving Naam from the Guru, can one progress spiritually to meet Vaheguru.

Having said that, if one just wants Vaak Sidhi or other such worldly objects, then one can just do Gurbani Paath with full concentration or even Naam Jaap, without authority. Many people who are not Amritdhari have been heard to have attained worldly objects and Vaak Sidhi kind of powers by chanting Naam and reciting Gurbani.

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also did you do your ardas prior to naam simran?
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Normally just a gupt informal Benti Roopi Ardaas is done prior to Amritvela Abhyaas. There is no tradition of doing full formal Ardaas prior to Naam Abhyaas, albeit there is no harm in doing so.

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Is Naam simran and Namm abhyas th same thing?
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Yes, many Gursikhs use these terms interchangeably.

Bhul chuk dee Maafi jee.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 11:06AM

abhyaas means practise

abhyaas can be, shareer daa abhyaas (exercising)
paran daa abhyaas (studying)

naam daa abhyaas (khanda khadkaaying)

=)

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 11:59AM

Quote
Bh. Kulbir SIngh jee
Secondly, if one wants some spiritual progress, then one must chant Naam after getting authorized to do so, from the true Guru. Now a days, one gets authority to Japp Naam, when one becomes Amritdhari. The whole purpose of becoming an Amritdhari is to obtain Naam and then chant Naam to meet Vaheguru.

I know a few who want to pesh, but no proper in such areas because Tat Gurmat minded elder or sangat is not present. A number are young, so traveling abroad is not within their reach.What do such youngsters do then?

I personally requested to an AKJ unit to conduct an amrit sanchar seva once in a country where proper Tat Gurmat amrit sanchar never take place, as they did so in their continent. Answer was, 'We will only do so if there are at least 10 abhilakhis otherwise the $$$ spent would not be proportionate'.

The current Jatha as a whole really needs to learn a lot from Bhai Rajinder SIngh Chalda Vaheer(UK) nishkaam seva.

Chota veer

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 01:03PM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Pyasi chatrik jeeo when you mention :

"I personally requested to an AKJ unit to conduct an amrit sanchar seva once in a country where proper Tat Gurmat amrit sanchar never take place, as they did so in their continent. Answer was, 'We will only do so if there are at least 10 abhilakhis otherwise the $$$ spent would not be proportionate'."

This narrow mindedness thought process is the BIGGEST DEATH to the sikh ਪੰਥ ਦੀ ਅੱਜ ਦੀ ਤਰਸਯੋਗ ਹਾਲਤ ਦਾ ਕਾਰਨ

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 01:41PM

narrow mindedness ?

i see

we all want our kids and younger generation to attend the best schools and do office jobs!
we all want them to be top notch members of society

a naujawaan who is born, raised and educated abroad is looked down upon, is he or she chooses to pursue something like truck driving, lets say for instance!

now that is narrow minded ness my friend. chatrik jees action came based solely on what these naujawans wanted, not something chatrik pressured them into doing, from what he has written.

does not look like narrow minded ness to me.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 01:45PM

Chatrik jeeo, I am sure there are definitely more than 1 candidate in the country you live in. See if an Amrit Sinchaar can be arranged in your place.

And yes, we all definitely need to learn from the exemplary life of Bhai Rajinder Singh jee. With respect to Bhai Rajinder Singh jee, an old memory has come into mind. When I had not yet gotten pesh in Jatha, I was still an Amritdhari who was looking to get Naam DriR in Jatha. In one of the UK newspapers in early 1990s, that used to also come to Canada, I saw a Samagam notification in some country. There was a picture of Bhai Rajinder Singh jee riding a horse. Right there, I wished that he be one of the Punj Pyare when I get Pesh. Later on I forgot about this wish but soon when I got Pesh in Jatha, in a Samagam in Hamilton, Canada, I was pleasantly surprised that he was the Jathedar of Punj at that time. His beard was very long and almost touched ground. That was the only time, I had his Darshan.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 02:04PM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Upkar Singh Jeeo please don't take my comments out of context, issue was the jatha unit compared to lost $$$$ not with Pyasi chatrik's request

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 03:46PM

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Kindly explain this terminology "pesh in Jatha". Are the Punj Pyare in the "Jatha" different than those of the Panth? Do they tell you at the end that you have become a member of the "Jatha" or do you become a Sikh of the Panth? Is the "Jatha-Peshi" something above and beyond what other "non-Jatha" Sikhs are subject to in front of th Punj Pyare? Is this insinuating that no other Jathebandi imparts the Gurmantar?

Khals Ji, my above near-rhetorical questions are there because the "Jatha" is a group of Sikhs who do Nirbaan Keertan together, not a separate entity from the Panth or in any way superior to a Gursikh from Nanaksar/Nihung Dal/Taksal/your average Joe Singh/Kaur following Panthic Maryada like me. Countless times, I have heard someone saying they were subject to a peshi of the "Jatha", which makes no sense. I could understand peshi for Naam Dhrir or Naam Daat or whatever analagous terminology being used, but such terms of "pesh in Jatha" serve to divide the Panth into factions, covertly insinuating that the "Jatha" Punj Pyare offer something that no others can or do, where there is hardly one person on this forum who will challenge the authority of the Punj Pyare, duly elected by the Sangat and Gurmat. Factually, this is also incaaurate, because even the Budha Dal Sundar Gutka and Khalsa Nitnem Gutka state that every Gursikh should get up at Amritvela and do Swas Swas Simran and the Jatha's own parchar states that this has been around since the time of the Das Patshahian.

Please take this into consideration before using the words "Pesh in Jatha" - it carries divisive connotations.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 29, 2011 06:23PM

Apparently, the Toronto Jatha units have a lot of potential in doing aboard, if they choose to do so. There is no shortage of Jatha Sangat in Toronto, and many Singhs, I think, can take out the time and money to travel elsewhere where Parchaar needs to be heavily done. Satgur Mehar Karan, sojhee bakhshan. Satguru Mehar Karan, Chaah Utshaah Bakhshan, Darsh Pyaas Bakhshan, Naam di Daat Bakhshan.

Jaspreet Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 09:01AM

Quote
Bh. Kulbir Singh
Chatrik jeeo, I am sure there are definitely more than 1 candidate in the country you live in. See if an Amrit Sinchaar can be arranged in your place.

effort was done a few years ago, but it was of no use due to the apathy among gursikhs I talked to.

Bhai Rajinder Singh jee once borrowed 10, 000 pounds from the Bank to support parchar missions he had taken up, which he later repaid himself.(there might have been other instances...only this is known to us)
He was a great abhiyaasi too, so the challenges never moved him a bit.

Quote
Bh. Kulbir Singh
There was a picture of Bhai Rajinder Singh jee riding a horse. Right there, I wished that he be one of the Punj Pyare when I get Pesh. Later on I forgot about this wish but soon when I got Pesh in Jatha, in a Samagam in Hamilton, Canada, I was pleasantly surprised that he was the Jathedar of Punj at that time. His beard was very long and almost touched ground. That was the only time, I had his Darshan.

maybe this will rekindle back some memories for you , taken by the pehredaar after the amrit sanchar...

Chota veer

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 09:33AM

Thanks Chatrik jee. Do you have his picture riding a horse?

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 10:34AM

Bhai Sahib, I think you are referring to this photo:

Here's another photo of Bhai Sahib. Notice the Sarbloh Kamandle to his right:

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 10:59AM

Beautiful Pictures! Singhs look so good on horses. I think horse is the best vehicle for Singhs.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 04:24PM

Quote
ms514
VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Kindly explain this terminology "pesh in Jatha". Are the Punj Pyare in the "Jatha" different than those of the Panth? Do they tell you at the end that you have become a member of the "Jatha" or do you become a Sikh of the Panth? Is the "Jatha-Peshi" something above and beyond what other "non-Jatha" Sikhs are subject to in front of th Punj Pyare? Is this insinuating that no other Jathebandi imparts the Gurmantar?

Khals Ji, my above near-rhetorical questions are there because the "Jatha" is a group of Sikhs who do Nirbaan Keertan together, not a separate entity from the Panth or in any way superior to a Gursikh from Nanaksar/Nihung Dal/Taksal/your average Joe Singh/Kaur following Panthic Maryada like me. Countless times, I have heard someone saying they were subject to a peshi of the "Jatha", which makes no sense. I could understand peshi for Naam Dhrir or Naam Daat or whatever analagous terminology being used, but such terms of "pesh in Jatha" serve to divide the Panth into factions, covertly insinuating that the "Jatha" Punj Pyare offer something that no others can or do, where there is hardly one person on this forum who will challenge the authority of the Punj Pyare, duly elected by the Sangat and Gurmat. Factually, this is also incaaurate, because even the Budha Dal Sundar Gutka and Khalsa Nitnem Gutka state that every Gursikh should get up at Amritvela and do Swas Swas Simran and the Jatha's own parchar states that this has been around since the time of the Das Patshahian.

Please take this into consideration before using the words "Pesh in Jatha" - it carries divisive connotations.

ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਧੁਰੋਂ ਕਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਭਈ ਹੈ, ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਜਨਮ ਵਿਖੇ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਉਣ ਦਾ ਸੁਭਾਗ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ| ਪਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਹੈ| ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਵਡੇ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਮਨੁਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ, ਫੇਰ ਅਤਿ ਵਡੇ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰ ਵਿਖੇ, ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ ਘਰਾਣੇ ਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰਿੳ ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਗੁਰ-ਦੀਖਿਆ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ|
ਜਿਸ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਜਨ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਦਾਤਿ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਅਤੇ ਪੰਥ ਵਿਚਿ ਆ ਰਲਦਾ ਹੈ| ਐਸੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ-ਵਿਰਲਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਮੂਹ ਹੀ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਹੈ| ਬੇਖਾਸ ਤੇ ਬੇ-ਖ਼ਾਲਿਸ ਮਲੇਛੀ ਭੇਖੀ ਬੰਦੇ, ਜੋ ਨਾਮ ਅਭਿਆਸ ਦੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦੇ, ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਸਦਾਉਣ ਦੇ ਅਧਿਕਾਰੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ|
ਅਜਿਹੇ ਮੰਦ-ਕਰਮੀ ਮਲੇਛ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਨੇ ਹੀ ਪੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਬਦਨਾਮ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ| ਦਿਨ ਆਵੇਗਾ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਪਰਦਪਰ ਖਹਿ ਖਹਿ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਖੈ ਹੋ ਜਾਣਗੇ|
ਤੱਤ ਨਰੋਤਮੀ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਕੌਮ ਜੁਗੋ ਜੁਗ ਅੱਟਲ ਅਤੇ ਅੱਮਰ ਰਹੇਗੀ| ਇਹਨਾਂ ਮਲੇਛ-ਕਰਮੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਭੀ ਕੋਈ ਵੱਸ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹੀ| ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਪੂਰਬਲੀ ਲਿਖਤਕਾਰ ਹੀ ਐਸੀ ਹੈ|
(Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee, Gurmat Adhiaatam Karam Philosophy, page 18)

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
June 30, 2011 10:02PM

What an amazing and extremely strong quote from Bhai Sahib jee. Thanks for sharing Jaspreet Singh jeeo.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 03:30AM

WJKK WJKF, MS514,dass shared one incident of KARTARPUR SAHIB SMAGAM.One gursikh came with their realitive singh in smagam and he was belong panth's topest jathebandi.His relative was to be peshi in smagam.THAT GURSIKH see all the smagam and then he them self pesh in that smagam.AFTER smagam he said that he done some avagya in past he pesh in his jathebandi.But seeing here way of peshi he was not satisfied his past peshi so was have to pesh here.Dass was not kintu prantu on punj singh or amrit but in last april amrit sanchar held dass nearer gurdwara.Their was150 amrit abhilakhi.PUNJ SINGH was also thier one of the top jathebandi of panth.But their all 15 chullas gave by two person to all amrit abhilakhi which was not right. BUT in jatha their was not any small compromise on amrit sanchar maryada gave us by SHRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI on1699. bhag heen bhram chotan khave

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 10:38AM

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Thank you Bhai Jaspreet Singh for the Panthic view of Bhai Sahib, who represents what a Sikh/member of the Khalsa Panth is.

Bhai/Bhenji Bhag Heen, I am very happy for the Gursikh who obtained something from the Amrit Sanchar. But the point was that one should at all times represent himself/herself as a Sikh/member of the Khalsa Panth and never ascribe to being made a member of any Jathebandi or group through an Amrit Sanchar. Amrit from the Panj Pyare can only make a person a Sikh/member of the Khalsa Panth, and cannot/does not entitle a Sikh to additional titles. I have not heard of one Amrit Sanchar where the Panj Pyare said, "Now you belong to AKJ/Taksal/etc.". Rather, they prescribe the Maryada of being a Sikh, having a spiritual mother and father, having a new home and city etc. If such instruction is being provided, please clarify with the sevadaars who are organizing the Amrit Sanchar, because such instruction does not have a precedent in Gurmat.

And while the Jatha believes that it has the most untainted Rehat Maryada (which is your mauj to believe), such an opinion should not be made public, as it creates friction amongst other Gursikhs who may believe otherwise. And I assure you, there are enough points of contention on Maryada that such views lead to very hurt feelings and even animosity amongst Gursikhs when such claims are made. There are Mahapurakhs from other Jathebandis which have differences in view of Maryada from AKJ and those Jathebandis have produced some very Chardi-Kalaa Gursikhs, and unless one has obtained Brahm-Gyan, one should not ever even think of weighing which Mahapurakh was a bigger Gursikh or which Maryada is original/better/superior/best.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 12:19PM

Here are some more questions and answers received privately:

Vaheguru jee ka Khalsa Vaheguru jee kee fateh!

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Can you make spiritual progress to meet waheguru without being an amritdhari,
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Sometimes, based on our previous kamaaee (spiritual earnings) we rise in spirituality despite being non-Amritdhari but once one reached one's previous life's high Avastha, one cannot progress further up, without becoming an Amritdhari. So in essence, real Tarakkee (rise, progress) is not possible, without becoming an Amritdhari.

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and is 3 hours of Naam simran enough to have vak siddhi and be close to waheguru?
---------------

As for how many hours are required to get Vaak Sidhi, this is never the subject of Sikhi because Sikhi teaches us to not seek Ridhi Sidhi. Whatever Ridhi Sidhi comes to us naturally is fine but one should not work for it. Still answering your question, the amount of effort required for Vaak Sidhi in your case would be dependent on your level of spirituality. If you were a high Avastha Sidh in your previous life, then just a small amount of Gurmantr or Gurbani Paath will bring Ridhi Sidhi to you because you probably had them from previous life. Otherwise, it will take longer. Everyone is at a different level of spirituality and thus would take different amount of effort to get there.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 12:25PM

Veer ms514 Ji you seem to unnecessarily worry about things, which are never said, at least in this thread.

By the way what is wrong in agreeing to a fact that some among our Khalsa Panth, give more and due significance to an important major activity during Amrit Sanchar, which many of them generally underestimate and thus are likely to bypass? And what is wrong in naming those people, who at least, try to follow a procedure, may be for name sake?

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 01:13PM

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Bhai MB Singh, please spend time with the youth and you will see what the problem is. They are literally stuck in their Jathebandis and call themselves "AKJer" or "Taksali" and do not reserve themselves from slandering each other. Where do they get these thoughts from? Parents, who pass on such lovely thoughts that Gursikhs of the AKJ bark like dogs while doing Simran and that Taksali Gursikhs don't do Amrit Vela Simran at all.

These are not isolated incidences. Naam Dhrir is thrown around like "I have it, you don't", while others engage in slander over the fifth Kakkar or Raag Malaa. Without even knowing what the issue is, the youth blame each other for being pakhandis and incomplete Sikhs thanks to these petty issues. Rather than learning from each other and growing, they stagnate in their own little groups. God Forbid anyone here join Facebook and read what the Gursikh youth say to each other based on Jathebandi.

Or would you like me to detail you how one Singh, who does seva in the Punj Pyare no less, told me one to one in conversation that because I was not "pesh in Jatha", that I was not given Naam? When I told him that I was indeed given Naam (though the technique of imparting it was different - you may read Gurmat Rehat Maryarda from Taksal as to how Naam Dhrir is imparted by the Punj Pyare in Amrit Sanchars arranged by Taksal. However, my Amrit Sancher was not organized by Taksal, nor affiliated with them), I was essentially told that what they gave, the PUNJ PYARE, was a SHAM (mind you, the Punj Pyare in the my Amrit Sanchar actually said, Hun Asi Thaunau Naam Dhrir Karavangae)??? his words were "Oh Ta Ami Karade Neh" - what if I was to say this to some impressionable youth who was just given Amrit??? What gives any Sikh authority to make judgment on another's Amrit Sanchar? Is someone from AKJ going to dismiss Taksal Maryada because they don't agree with its details, the same Maryada that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale preached (the same Baba who, when pressured to answer, stated that his Simran had not stopped since the day he was given Amrit by the Punj Pyare)? Needless to say, I brushed off the comments by the Bhai Sahib because I had seen plenty of such ignorant comments, but such comments can cause a LOT of hurt.

Sangat Ji, there is plague of division and lack of respect in the Panth that we need to wake up to. You can dismiss it as "just a bunch of kids who don't know better", but these same kids grow up to lead Jathebandis and don't always leave the ignorance behind.

I know it sounds insignificant, but terminology as "pesh in Jatha" do have implications beyond their seemingly benign wording, because if one person verbalizes their issue with it (me, a moorakh), there are at least 100 who are thinking it.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 02:21PM

Veer ms514 jeeo, I fail to understand your intent on touching on topics of ragmala, Keski and the fact that AKJ does Simran Dhunni during Keertan. Originally, this thread was started to answer questions Bhai Kulbir Singh jee received in a private email. These questions are centred around the idea whether non-Amritdharis are allowed to or are able to do Naam-Simran. There was no question on a specific Jatheybandee, but you brought a different tone to this thread and touched on Naam-Dhrirr. This was not the question, because a non-Amritdhari can not be Naam-Dhrirr.

You have started talking about Nihung Sundar Gutkeys, Damdami Taksal and Akhand Keertanee Jathaa. Just because one poster has shared their experience and views of Jathaa, does not mean that that certain individual is targeting other Sikhs or Jatheybandees.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 02:39PM

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ms514 Jeeo -- you know you are 100% spot on - i have witnessed some of this in the UK youth-- i cannot see any make beleive in what you have mentioend above at all .Overall it makes me feel sad, lonely, miserable, and downright negative as possible. It even sometimes makes me personally cry-- i have to admit again that the countries we're born in -the west- we as a kaum have to learn patience from them, learn the art of working together- learn to respect everyone without a doubt with love, honesty-- the west is ruling the world at present on those principles they are way way way ahead of us generations ahead, not to say they don't have any weak points .

Until we can't get those basics right we'er going nowhere fast no matter wihch jathebandi one belongs to.

The future no doubt is "phelaa DHan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib JEEk a SIKH pher jathebandi"

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 07:38PM

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI. KI FATEH

The topic was diverted because when phrases like "Pesh in Jatha" are introduced in answers, it brings in a concept of separateness of the Jatha from the Panth. the questions were asked about non Amritdharis, so why introduce them to a concept of "Jatha Pesh" when no such concept exists and not provide an answer that can be applied universally across Sikhism? surely the person who asked the question is reading the answer on here? it is an inaccuracy in the answer I pointed out. When others questioned was making a big deal out of it, I expanded what the consequences of such seemingly benign phrases can have a larger than anticipated impact. Anyone who has any doubts of such impact can feel free to visit the U.K. and see exactly how divided the youth are over these trivial issues.

At all times, my intent has been, is, and will be to represent to the best of my meager abilities the Panth's view, especially if something stated on this website seems at odds with it. I am not ignorant to how many people these posts impact and will do my best to represent the other side within Gurmat. So please forgive the intrusion in the topic to provide input. I have made my point, so please carry on.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 01, 2011 07:58PM

Veer ms514 Ji, I am sorry that I was unable to understand the background, which makes you post like that. I am really sorry and also feel concerned about the divisions we have, as you say. I am not aware of such youth or aged, neither on internet nor in Sangat.

We have a lot of scope to improve. Let us discuss nothing more, on such shortcomings of ours. We can discuss ways to improve the situation on a separate thread.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Hove Ji.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 07, 2011 10:53AM

Here is another picture I found of Bhai Sahib Rajinder Singh jee Dudley. Here, he is seen standing with Sangat after an Amrit Sanchaar Smaagam that took place in Malaysia in the late 90s. Beside Bhai Sahib is another recognizable Singh whom I won't name.

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
July 09, 2011 01:07PM

Quote
upkaar singh wrote:
narrow mindedness ?
>
> i see
>
> we all want our kids and younger generation to
> attend the best schools and do office jobs!
> we all want them to be top notch members of
> society
>
> a naujawaan who is born, raised and educated
> abroad is looked down upon, is he or she chooses
> to pursue something like truck driving, lets say
> for instance!
>
> now that is narrow minded ness my friend. chatrik
> jees action came based solely on what these
> naujawans wanted, not something chatrik pressured
> them into doing, from what he has written.
>
> does not look like narrow minded ness to me.

we have the same name singh jeo,

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
August 02, 2011 06:30AM

ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Quote
I know a few who want to pesh, but no proper in such areas because Tat Gurmat minded elder or sangat is not present. A number are young, so traveling abroad is not within their reach.What do such youngsters do then?

I personally requested to an AKJ unit to conduct an amrit sanchar seva once in a country where proper Tat Gurmat amrit sanchar never take place, as they did so in their continent. Answer was, 'We will only do so if there are at least 10 abhilakhis otherwise the $$$ spent would not be proportionate'.

Bhai Chatrik Jio,

Please email this Daas exact place and other info and if Guru Sahib wished Amrit Sanchaar will be granted in your country without any "$$$" and if possible Sri Akhand Paath Sahib will be conducted before Amrit Sanchaar. Daas will request AKJ-USA sangat to help you out.

With Regards,
Daas

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
August 02, 2011 09:07AM

ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Regarding this topic there are countless Gur Parmaans (Gurbani-quotes) that say without becoming Gursikh or Gurmukh one’s Bhagti is not true Bhagti. May be non Gursikh will gain some temporary worldly gain from reading Gurbani, for example wealth or health or as Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee mentioned some Ridhi Sidhi but even such gain would not stay long. True Bhagti will be counted only if we submit our self to true Guru Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and take Khanday de Pahul and keep all the Rehats otherwise see what Guru Sahib says in following Gur Parmaans.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 768)

and

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 31)

and

ਇਸੁ ਜੁਗ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਪੜਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਭਾਈ ॥
ਪੂਰੈ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਭ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
ਐਥੈ ਅਗੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਖਾਈ ॥1॥
ਰਾਮ ਪੜਹੁ ਮਨਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਉਤਾਰੁ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 230)

and

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਹਜ ਘਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਮਰਿ ਆਈਐ ਜਾਈਐ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਸੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਉ ਜਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਵੈ ॥
ਅਕਥੁ ਕਥਾਵੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥
ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਲੋਗ ਅਵਰ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥
ਸਾਚਉ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥2॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 686)

and

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਮਿਲਤ ਨਹੀ ਜਗਦੀਸੈ ॥3॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 1205)

So it is very very very important to take Khanday de Pahul only then Naam-Bani will prosper one’s life. There is no Shutkara without Satguru.

Baani is agaadh bodh may Guru Sahib and sangat forgive this daas.

With Regards,
Daas

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
August 02, 2011 10:49AM

Singh jeo, please check your MSN mail

Chota veer

rakhin charna de kol

Re: Naam Simran without becoming Gursikh
August 11, 2011 04:33PM

Kulbir veerji, u talked above about Vaak Sidhi. are these type of powers really exist ? nowadays a some sikh scholars said that any kind of power donot exist in this world. these are the views of brahmins who thought that these kind of powers exist but it is totally wrong. they call the sikhs who believes in powers and naam simran 'WAAHEGURU' as Sant Samaaj and as followers of hinduism. they are totally against the view that Guru Nanak Dev ji and other nine Gurus is our gurus but daas means bhagat. Guru is Waaheguru and Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the Gian guru that is just a book not the spiritual Guru that has powers.i m totally confused with these type of sayings. please help to get me out of this complexive issue. i think this issue is not only limited to me but many of others who r getting trapped in this dangerous situation. Waaheguru ji ka Khalsa Waaheguru ji ki fateh

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