Rattan Mala?

Is there any online site which show the writings which were excluded from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji such as " jis muhammad likh da" and " rattan mala"?

What year where these writings excluded? Also where did Bhai BhanoJi receive these writings? I have heard that Rattan Mala comes from a Sakhi when Sri Guru Ji travelled to Sri Lanka; however, I have not found these writings in any Janam Sakhi. Bhai Kahn Singh mentions these writings are centred on Hath yoga. I remember reading these writings some time ago from an old gutka sahib they did not seem like they were propagating Hath Yog, and they seemed very similar to the bani Siddh Gosht. More info will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

There is no need to beat this dead horse any more. These topics have been discussed and the Sarbat Khalsa has already sorted out these issues. There shouldn't be a need restart such topics or debates.
I hope this thread is either closed or deleted.

Bhai Sahib, there is nothing to debate about these writings. Nobody in their right mind would say they needed to be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The panth has already decided that these writings cannot and should not be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If these topics have already been discussed the can kindly provide pm with the links. I have asked many people about these writings and I have not received any concrete answers.I just want to know where these writings come from and if we can view them somewhere online?

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਕਈ ਸਰੂਪਾਂ ਚ ਇਹ ਰਤਨਮਾਲਾ, ਰਾਗਮਾਲਾ ਅਤੇ ਸਲੋਕ ਮ :੫ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਕਾਰ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ |

Bansvalinama mentions how people like Mehrvan would often have writings similar to Gurbani with the stamp Nanak . We know people belonging to the Gurus lineage had access to pothi sahibs so I was curious if its possible that Rattan Mala is one of these writings? Its been awhile since I read Rattan Mala but I remember it seems very much like Gurbani and has the stamp Nanak.It does not seem like its propagating Hath Yoga as Bhai Kahn SIngh proclaims. Also, where can I get access to the other excluded writings and what they do talk about?

WJKK WJKF

I believe the below two links will help you:

“Sodhi Prithi Chand Di Rachna” by Prof. Pritam Singh and Joginder Singh Ahluwalia
Sikhnet Review of "Sodhi Prithi Chand Di Rachna"


“The Minas and Their Literature” by Jeevan Deol
JSTOR : The Minas and Their Literature

WJKF

Navroop Singh

Thanks for the links Navroop Singh Veer Ji

After my limited research I have discoverd the writings do not actually come from Prithi Chands son "Merhvan". According to Bhai Vir SIngh Ji and Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji these excluded writings were added in Bhai Bhano Jis bir in Lahore. How they get there and from which person is vague to say the least. However, there are some more detailed historical accounts on the writings "Rattan Mala".

Prithi Chands son wrote a Granth which included the first four Gurus banis and in the end of the the Granth he added the Bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. In the midst of this granth he added his own kachi bani and while raagis were singing these kachi banis the sangat become confused. Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji then told Bhai Gurdas Ji to compile a granth seperating the kachi bani from sachi bani. After receiving the previous banis from Sri Guru Amar Das Jis son " Bhai Mohan JI" ,Sri Guru Ji said "now we have all the writings from the previous Gurus the only thing that is missing is Rattan Mala". He then sent Paira Mokha ( scribe of Bhai Bala Janam Sakhis) to Sri Lanka to get the copy of this granth. According to the Bhai Bala Janam Sakhis this bani was recited to Raja ShivNabh Nath in Sri Lanka. Also, even though this bani was recovered it was never added in the Kartarpur bir by Bhai Gurdas Ji but was added by Bhai Bhano Ji along with other writings which we dont find in the Kartarpurbir Sahib. Sri Guru Ji told Bhai Bhano Ji to make admendments to his bir which match with the bir Bhai Gurdas Jis compiled.

Again the following is based on my limited research and I dont know what is true and what is not true. There is much more info that I did not add for the purpose of avoiding controversey.

As far as I know, Ratan Maala was written by Udasis (perhaps by Anand Ghann) along with other compositions which the 3rd Guru Sahib rejected as “kachi bani”. Udasi was the only group composing kachi bani at the time. It talks about yoga.

Hakikat Rah Mukaam describes the journey of a Sikh (not Paira Mokha who was already dead by the time) to Sri Lanka to obtain Pran Sangali which was attributed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. When Guru Arjan Dev Ji acquired it he rejected it as faulty due to it being unauthentic or being altered and diluted. As far as I know, Pran Sangali is not one of the kachi banis included in some puratan saroops but Hakikat Rah Mukaam is.

Jitt Dar Likh Muhammada was written by Meharbaan praising Mohammad just like he wrote compositions praising Rama and Krishna.

Siahi Ki Bidh found in many saroops is not a composition but an ink formula. Other than this, I can’t provide any more information.

Quote

As far as I know, Ratan Maala was written by Udasis (perhaps by Anand Ghann) along with other compositions which the 3rd Guru Sahib rejected as “kachi bani”. Udasi was the only group composing kachi bani at the time. It talks about yoga.

Hakikat Rah Mukaam describes the journey of a Sikh (not Paira Mokha who was already dead by the time) to Sri Lanka to obtain Pran Sangali which was attributed to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. When Guru Arjan Dev Ji acquired it he rejected it as faulty due to it being unauthentic or being altered and diluted. As far as I know, Pran Sangali is not one of the kachi banis included in some puratan saroops but Hakikat Rah Mukaam is.

Jitt Dar Likh Muhammada was written by Meharbaan praising Mohammad just like he wrote compositions praising Rama and Krishna.

Siahi Ki Bidh found in many saroops is not a composition but an ink formula. Other than this, I can’t provide any more information.

Thanks for the feeback Bhai Bijla Singh Ji,

According to my understanding Praan Sangali and Ratan Mala are one and the same composition and it was Paira Mokha who at an old age went to Sri Lanka to recover this composition ( Mehma Parkaash) . Which source did you learn that Jit Dar Lakh Muhmamadda was written by Meharvaan? Thanks

Also , is there any place where I can view these excluded writngs. Nihang Gutkey Sahibs and other older Gutkey Sahibs use to have Rattan Mala but not anymore? Anyplace online where they can be viewed?

ਦਾਸ ੧੯੯੦ -੯੫ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਕਾਰ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਹਜੂਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਰਸ਼ਨਾਂ ਲਈ ਗਿਆ ਸੀ ਉਸ ਸਮੇਂ ਰਸਤੇ ਵਿਚ ਬੁਰਹਾਨ ਪੁਰ ਜਿਥੈ ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਾ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਕ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ |ਉਥੇ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਪਿਤਾ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਦਸਤਖਤਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ ਸਰੂਪ ਸੁਭਾਇਮਾਨ ਹੈ ,ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਲੋਕ ਮ =੫ ਤੇਰਾਕੀਤਾਜਾਤੋਨਾਹੀਮੈਨੋਜੋਗੁਕੀਤੋਈ || ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਰਤਨਮਾਲਾ ,ਸ਼ਿਹਾਈ ਦੀ ਵਿਧੀ ਤੇ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਰ ਕੀ ਕੁਝ ਦਰਜ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਅਖੀਰ ਵਿਚ ਜਾਕੇ ਰਾਗਮਾਲਾ |ਜਿਸਦੇ ਅੰਗਾਂ ਦੀ ਗਿਨ੍ਨਤੀ ਲਗਭਗ ੧੦ ਤੋਂ ੧੫ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਕਾਰ ਹੈ |

Harsh Singh Jee, please stop discussing Raag Mala on this thread. This thread is about Rattan Mala and other exlcluded writings. Im not interested in discussing Raag Mala. Thank you ji

I think Bhai Harsh Singh Jee simply mentioned what he saw in one Saroop about RATAN MALA and others.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also , is there any place where I can view these
> excluded writngs. Nihang Gutkey Sahibs and other
> older Gutkey Sahibs use to have Rattan Mala but
> not anymore? Anyplace online where they can be
> viewed?


Sukhdeep Singh jio dass only replied for your questions and if rattan mala or other mala was not gurbani then what is problem to discuss both on same thread.

Ratanmala appears in Bhai Banno type Birs, always before Raagmala. The Sirlekh says Raag Ramkali Ratanmala Mahala 1. The Manglacharan Ik Oankaar appears first, almost always. In some Birs the "Mahala 1" is missing.

The Chaal of Ratanmala is very smooth and the Chaal of the Pankitis is similar to Chaupai i.e. has 15-17 Maatra for each Pankiti but there are 6 Pankitis in each Pauri (some Pauris are 7 also); therefore, we can't call it Chaupai which should have 4 Pankitis. I have not done a deep study of this composition but from the shallow look that I have had, this composition is not Gurbani, albeit it is Gurbani-like in constitution. Gursikhs can tell the difference between Amrit and sweet-water.

The subject matter is Bhagti and redefining Hatha Yoga. The teaching or the Updesh is definitely good but I fear that if this composition is part of the Meena literature (Meena means anything related to Prithi Chand and his successors), then reading this composition would be like doing Sangat of these Bemukh people and it can have adverse affect on us as per this Pankiti:

ਓਇ ਅਗੈ ਕੁਸਟੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਫਿਟਕੇ ਜਿ ਓਸੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਕੁਸਟੁ ਉਠਾਹੀ ॥
(They are lepers and whoever meets them (mingles with them), gets infected with leprosy (leprosy of Bemukh-ness)

Here is a sample Pauri from this composition:

ਆਸਨ ਸਾਧ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਰਹੈ।
ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਕਾ ਨਿਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕਰੈ।
ਥੋੜੀ ਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਅਲਪ ਅਹਾਰੀ।
ਸਾਧ ਕਾ ਪਿੰਡ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ।
ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਿਚਖਣਾ।
ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹੈ ਜੋਗ ਕੇ ਲਖਣਾ।1।
(First few Pauris end with the last Pankiti of this Pauri).


We should have faith in the Wisdom of Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee Maharaj. Anything that is beyond Guru Sahib's seal - Mundavani - should not be considered Gurbani. Even Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee did not pass the seal Mundavani and any Baani He added was added to the left of Mundavani.

When the Panth first started printing Guru Sahib's Saroops and when these Baanis were left out, there was a big hue and cry with respect to these Baanis. Many Deras continued to read these so called Bhog Baanis. It's only when that generation of Deredaars died, that their successors stopped reading these Baanis at the Bhog of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Even Taksals used to read these Baanis and this is why many Gutkas of old times had these Baanis, including Naseehatnama.

Let's have faith that Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee's Baani alone is sufficient to do Kaliyaan of the whole universe. No need to do Paath of these Kachi Baanis.

Guru Sahib Baksh lain.

Kulbir Singh

Thanks for the feedback Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji,

I knew that these excluded writings were kachi bani but from a histroical perspective I was curious as to how and why these banis were included in Bhai Bhano Jis bir. According to Gurbilas it was added when Bhai Sahib was going to Lahore to bind the bir, but the description on how, why, and who persuaded Bhai Sahib to add these writings are vague. Bhai Sahib was a good Gursikh and he knew the importance on safeguarding the bani from other sources. So how and why these writings were included still preplexes me. I guess this something we will never know. Perhaps it is possible that some followers from some anti panthic cults such as the Meenas were present in Lahore and convinced Bhai Sahib these were the writngs of Sri Guru Ji this is the only thing I can think of.

WJKK WJKF Sukhdeep Singh,

Prof. Sahib Singh in his book about the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, states the following dates, as noted in the respective birs:

Original, Kartarpri Bir completion date: August 2, 1604 (Bhadon Vadi 1, 1661)
Sri Aad Granth Parkash at Harimandir Sahib : August 16, 1604 (Bhado Sudi 1)
Bhai Banno Bir completion date : August 30, 1604 (Asuj Vadi 1)

Prof. Sahib Singh states that these dates show that the story regarding how these Kachi Banis made their way into the Sri Aad Granth, as per Kavi Santokh Singh and Gurbilas are not true. In summary, (the book is quite exhaustive) Prof. Sahib Singh states that he believes that these Kachi Banis were added by the heretic Niranjania sect of Baba Handal, after the Shaeedhi of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib. He also states that it is these people who are also responsible for the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi.

An english translation of Prof. Sahib Singh's book is available here:
Compilation of SGGS, Prof. Sahib Singh

WJKF

Navroop Singh

[www.panjabdigilib.org]
ਇਹ ਇਕ ਲਿੰਕ ਹੈ ਜਿਥੇ ਰਤਨਮਾਲਾ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਕਈ ਲਿਖਤਾਂ ਦੇਖੀਆਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ |

Navroop Singh Ji- I dont agree with some of the contents of that book especially the part about Bhai Bala Janam Sakhis being written the Niranjalas during the time of Sri Guru Hargobind Ji. It doesnt make sense. The author claims that he believes so because their is one sentence where Handa is given higher precedence then Sri Guru Ji. Its true that Im sure some anti panthic forces tampered with this book, but to discredit the whole book is baseless. Most of the chapters are in praise of Naam and Sri Guru Ji and teach us the maryada of Sri Guru Ji such as the importance of Gursikh Sadh Sangat. To say the book was written by anti sikh forces doesnt make sense at all.

Also, there is not much evidence for the claim that Bhai Banno Jis bir was written at a much later date. Writing Gurbani in Sikhi is a Gurmat tradition Im sure when Bhai Gurdas Jis bir was complete Sri Guru ji continued to have Gursikhs such as Bhai Baano Ji write more birs.

Harsh Singh Jee, the link does not open

[www.panjabdigilib.org]

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ਦਾਸ ਮੁਆਫ਼ੀ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿਉਂ ਲਿੰਕ ਜਦੋਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਤਾਂ preview vich ਦਿਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਪਰ post ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਖੁਲਦਾ |

The links will not work because the website requires signing in to view pages 51-1548. I suggest that readers should simply sign in and search for the term 'MN-001350' in the search textbox of the home page. This will lead the reader to the manuscript and from there on reader can navigate to the relevant pages. If you wish I can download the images and stick them up in dropbox for you. Its only a matter of opening the relevant pages and saving the jpg images embedded within the pages. Although it is not permissible but I shall do it considering that it is not being done for commercial purposes or profit except academic. They are allowing public viewing in any case, they just need viewers to sign in so that they can keep a track.

Hanji eyesacadmic Ji kar deo kirpa

Ratanmala images on dropbox

If the link does not work, please let me know and I shall try and fix it.

ਬਹੁਤ ਬਹੁਤ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਿਆਰਿਓ |

Quote

The subject matter is Bhagti and redefining Hatha Yoga. The teaching or the Updesh is definitely good but I fear that if this composition is part of the Meena literature (Meena means anything related to Prithi Chand and his successors), then reading this composition would be like doing Sangat of these Bemukh people and it can have adverse affect on us as per this Pankiti:

Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee,

After reading the 1st pauri of Rattan Mala which you posted
ਆਸਨ ਸਾਧ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਰਹੈ।
ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਕਾ ਨਿਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕਰੈ।
ਥੋੜੀ ਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਅਲਪ ਅਹਾਰੀ।
ਸਾਧ ਕਾ ਪਿੰਡ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ।
ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਿਚਖਣਾ।
ਨਾਨਕ ਕਹੈ ਜੋਗ ਕੇ ਲਖਣਾ।1।

I did not detect anything contrary to Gurmat. The pauri is mainly saying true way of the yogi is to discipline the body by practices such as eating little and sleeping little. Likewise Sri when Sri Guru Ji gives instructions to the Yogis in Shabad Hazarey he states
ਅਲਪ ਅਹਾਰ ਸੁਲਾਪ ਸੀ ਨਿੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਦਯਾ ਛਿਮਾ ਤਨ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ॥

This weekend I had the opportunity to review all of Rattan Mala, and after reviewing its contents I cant understand why you assume it was written by someone like the Meenas or perhaps Bijla Singh Ji can explain why he thinks the Udasis? Could you exlplain why you assume the Meenas have written this bani. I could not find any pangti which seemed to propagate manmat nor can I find any reference to Sri Chand or Prithi Chand.

The main theme of this bani is to discipline the passions of the body and mind through strict recitation of Guru Shabad ( naam) in which the inner breath is reversed and the charan Kamal blooms. The bani also mentions without the Guru Shabad ( naam) when is stuck in heaven and hell , and religious text stuck in the three qualities. This bani seems more in line with Gurmat Sehaj Yog then Haath Yog. Anybody who misreads these verses can easily mistake it with Haath Yog the same way people misinterpret Siddh Gosht with Haath Yog and other Gurbani verses with Haath Yog.Whoever wrote this bani definitely had an understanding of Gurmat Yog. I

This bani seems way too sophisticated for the vemukh cults such as the Meenas and Udasis. The style of poetry seems very similar to the discussions Sri Guru Ji had with the the Naths and Siddhas recorded in the Janam Sakhis. Siddh Gosht is recorded in Gurbani but there are other convesations ( ex. conversation with Gorakh Nath) which we dont find in Gurbani but are written with such a magnificent flow and sophistication. In addition these conversations dont contradict Gurmat instill they are indebted to Gurmat. Is it not possible that Rattan Mala is a conversation between Guru Sahib and the yogis which like many other conservations in Janam Sakhis we do not find in Gurbani?? There are many deep and spiritual convesations Sri Guru Ji had with the Fakir and Yogis of the world which do find way in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Im not claiming that Rattan Mala was written by Pehli Paatshah as the bani is titled or was originally part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but I cant see the Udasis or Meenas responsible for this work.

Well there is lot of udaasi literature which does not essentially contradict Gurmat teachings. I remember reading 'Parchi Addhan Shah Ji ki' many years ago and it was well written poetry in proper chands. And it did not go against Gurmat (as far as I can recall).

So I guess we may read anything for inspiration and motivation as long as it is in line with Gurmat and we do not consider it equal to Gurbani.

Quote

This weekend I had the opportunity to review all of Rattan Mala, and after reviewing its contents I cant understand why you assume it was written by someone like the Meenas or perhaps Bijla Singh Ji can explain why he thinks the Udasis? Could you exlplain why you assume the Meenas have written this bani. I could not find any pangti which seemed to propagate manmat nor can I find any reference to Sri Chand or Prithi Chand.

About Ratanmala, Gursikhs are sure about one thing - it's not Gurbani because if it had been Baani of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee, as the title claims, then it would have been included in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee by Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee. Since it's not in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, it can't be a Baani of any of our first 9 Guru Sahibaan.

Having said that, the next thing to consider is that Ratanmala is not Gurbani, yet it contains the Mohar of our Guru Sahibaan - "Nanak". The only conclusion one can draw from this is that this composition has been written by a non-Sikh because no Sikh can dare to use the Mohar-Chhaap of Guru Sahibaan. Only an apostate can have the audacity to write something using Guru Sahib's Mohar - "Nanak". No Sikh can do so. Bhai Gurdaas jee has written such great Baani but never used "Nanak" as Mohar in his Baani. So we can safely assume that whoever wrote Ratanmala is a Dokhi of Guru Sahib.

Thirdly, the Meena literature too contains mostly Updesh that is very similar to Gurmat because after all PrithiChand was a Sahibzada of Siri Guru Raamdaas jee. Meharbaan the son of Prithi Chand had been trained under Siri Arjun Dev jee. He was a great scholar and a very learned person. The Meena literature too contains only good things. This is why in my previous post I had referred to it as "Mitha Paani" (sweet water). Gursikhs know the difference between Amrit (Gurbani is Amrit) and non-Gurbani good literature (Mitha Paani). The Meena literature is no doubt Mitha Paani i.e. it contains good things but it also contains the poison of Bemukh-ness. To do Paath of Ratanmala or other such compositions that have "Nanak" Mohar-Chaap but are not in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, is like drinking poisoned sweet water. When one first drinks poisoned sweet water, one feels good but when the effect of poison kicks in, then one greatly regrets.

Kulbir Singh