The Lack of Chardikala Bibia in the Panth

Needless to say there have been great Gursikhs (who happen to be male) in the Panth in recent times including - Bhai Sahib, Sant Gurbachan Singh ji, Baba Harnam Singh, Bhai Rama Singh, Giani Amolak Singh ji and many many more who have been an inspiration to the Panth.
But can we say the same about the Bibia? Maybe Bhai Sahib has referred to some in Rangle Sajjan, but there is still a distinctive lack compared to the males is there not?

Perhaps I am just so ignorant that I cannot see it – but I do not know any Singhni of that calibre today.

Also before I get bombarded by the feminists on this forum – I must say that I don’t mean that no Bibi that is inspirational. Of course our history is full of examples.

BUT:

I just want to ask the sangat who are the great inspirational bibia of the last 20-30 years??? and if there are any where are they??

I don’t think we can always blame it on the raising of children either. Bhagat Namdev’s Shabad reveals that you can do work with your hands and feet but your consciousness should be with Waheguru. So lets not come up with that silly excuse. The common excuse I have heard is the women get caught up in raising children, cleaning duties etc that they cannot do bhagtee. I mean come on! If they are coming out with these petty excuses then i guess we know how bad the situation really is.

I think there is definitely an obligation to the Panth from our mothers, sisters and daughters in relation to doing Parchar, Keertan, Seva.
Taking the back seat all the time does not help. Perhaps this is a male thing and they are not getting a chance to do Seva (I don’t know how true this is).

It should not always be the Singhs that raise this problem too – do the bibia not see it?

The bibia I come across just are so un-inspirational! It is a very sad thing to think that we are a kaum that thinks the role of the woman is very important (maybe even higher than the man's role) because at the end of the day she gives birth to Gursikhs and kings etc.

What can be done? As silly as it sounds, maybe there needs to be a revolution by the Singhnia. If they think that the Singhs are keeping them back from participation in Gurdwareh, then they need to take a stance! Just take the example of Mai Bhago.

What is everyone's thoughts??

Not sure what part of the world you live in bhaji, but there are many inspirational bibia where I live. The only thing is..they're all gupt :-)

A lot has to do with our cultural setup where Bibiyaan usually are discouraged to take a leading role. They are rather encouraged to keep a low profile but this does not mean that there are is a famine or shortage of Chardi Kala waliyaan inspirational Gurmukh Bibiyaan.

I think now with changing times and Bibiyaan coming out of their low-profile role, we will see more visible Chardi Kala waliyaan Bibiyaan. Guru Sahib's shower of mercy falls on all in equal proportion and it is hard to believe that Bibiyaan are behind Singhs as far as Chardi Kala is concerned.

Kulbir Singh

I do not agree with Veer Ji, for his criteria of Chardi Kala. Our standards are wrong. Parchaar is no sign of Chardi Kala, Kirtan is again not a sign for that, in general.

Keeping Silent is a sign of Chardi Kala. The silent Sewa of Bibian, without any requirement of Show off, is a good sign of their Chadi Kala. I see hundreds of Singhs, much less in Chardi Kala than their Singhnis or Sisters.

I agree with Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji much has to do with cultural.
In many Sikh families boys are encouraged to take Amrit, and
practice Sikhi while girls are just encouraged to keep the hair on
their head. They are not taught Gurbani, Rehat , Gatka, etc so how
in the world can someone born in such an environment be in
" Chardi Kala". Because Punjabi Culture looks down on women
and regard them as inferior its very difficult for them to practice
Sikhi.

On the other hand if you look at women who are Sikh converts
they seem to be more passionate then their punjabi counterparts.
The obvious reason is they are not born in a Punjabi culture which
looks down on the female gender.

By no means am i saying that the criteria for Chardi Kala – is Keertan and Parchar only. That was just an example of taking a role.

Perhaps it is just where I am from. If Sangat feels that the bibia at their local Gurdwara are just as inspirational that the Singhs, that is excellent news.

I agree with Bhai Kulbir Singh that our cultural setup has a lot to do with it. But even with the young generation where I am from lack this.

In my own life, I can (but am not going to) name a lot of Singhs who are inspirational, but it is unfortunate to say that I cannot think of more than two Singhnia. To be honest, I imagine the Singhnia probably take their inspiration from these Singhs too which is fine. But it is hard to believe that the bibia are inspiring other bibia.

The rest only Guru Sahib knows, but it does seem to be heavily linked to Punjabi culture – but in a world which is increasingly becoming ‘westernised’ – maybe bibia will come forward. I hope for all our sakes they do.

Bibi Amarjit Kaur - singhni of Bhai Fauja Singh ji
Shaheed Bibi Ravinder kaur
Mata Kishan Kaur Konke - amazing bibi
wife of Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh
Bibi Manmohan Kaur

I could mention 3-4 UK bibian, but prefer they stay gupt...

all of the buzurg bibian that do seva in langar hall in all the gurdwaras around the world.

because not many bibian do seva in the Panj Pyares, they often do not get highlighted as much, but Guru maharaj has rare gems in the sadh sangat

The title of this thread should be "Lack of Chardikala Bibia in the Front of the Panth"

There are just as many bibian who have amazing gurmukh jeevans - if not more - than Singhs, but they are all gupt. They are gupt because of our patriarchal Punjabi culture, which keeps women in the home and in the kitchen and prevents them from being regular participants in outreach activities such as parchar, keertan and katha.

My santhiya teacher is a bhagat, the wives and mothers of many of the Gursikh Singhs we respect are also chardi kala Gursikhs. When the sun sets - it doesn't disappear - it is just that our earth is rotating so we can't see it. Similarly, a lot of bibiyan have chardi kala Gursikh jeevans but we don't see them.

Dear Veer jio,

I agree with the heading. ACTUALLY, we all are bibians in front of our param purakh. And we are really not in chardikala other wise preetam piyara mil janda hun tak. Bheno, koi preetam di baat hi suna devo.

Dass,

Kawaljit Singh

They say there is lady behind every successful man. So, certainly they are there, when we see successful Singhs. Those Bibian have preferred to take low profile, not due to any discouragement from Singhs, but mainly because of their own choice.
This character of Bibian goes well with Gurmat life style.

I would also like to get confirmed if this back home, silent feeding role of Bibian was typical with Punjabi culture or it was every where in the world. Do we find leading women in churches or mosques?

As Jagjit Singh Veer Ji hints at, all those old or young ladies serving meals and cooking food, selflessly, without any craving for limelight are in every Gurdwara and home. When men are busy in deciding the fate of community in long useless meetings and speeches; they are silently busy at home and doing SUKHMANI SAHIB or SEHAJ PATH and praying for it to the GURU.

My argument is that there to be a lack of chardikala bibia in the panth, and that it needs to change. It seems as though people on this forum think everything is perfect the way it is. Maybe the sangat feel as though nothing needs to be changed. That’s fine, but I just feel differently. I think they NEED to take the front role in parchar to inspire other women to take amrit.

I think yet again we have found the bibia another excuse. If it isn’t the children, its the housework. Maybe the idea of the ‘gupt’ bibia in the kitchen and the culture issue is just becoming another excuse.

Of course the bibia in the kitchen serving langar are amazingly hard working - but the common complaint I hear these days is that there is no Gurbani being recited when langar is being made. This tradition is becoming very rare today in the standard Gurdwara.

Also I don’t think you do find leading women in churches and mosques, but in Sikhi, there is a rejection of treating the woman as inferior. Those traditions have their own views about the status of women which I would rather not get into right now. We as Sikhs believe woman is, to some degree, higher than the man. But then why does is appear that they do not appear to have the same amount of kamai as the Singhs?

Are we saying that the bibia in the kitchens of every Guru-ghar is on par (in terms of chardikala) with the likes of Bhai Sahib, Sant Gurbachan Singh, Bhai Rama Singh and so on??

Observe and reflect....

108 Puran Brahmgiani Sant Baba ______________ Singh Ji

But have you ever heard of...

Sant Mata/Bebe/Bibi __________ Kaur Ji ?


Point of the post : The observation above speaks for itself

Chota veer

HS1NGH Wrote:

>
> Are we saying that the bibia in the kitchens of
> every Guru-ghar is on par (in terms of chardikala)
> with the likes of Bhai Sahib, Sant Gurbachan
> Singh, Bhai Rama Singh and so on??


H Singh Jeeo,

How do you know if those BIbia who do seva in the " kitcheN" are
not as Chardhi Kala as other GUrmukhs. Doing seva in Gurus langar
is no small thing. One who does such seva receive the greatest rewards.
If you serve Gurmukhs you eventually become a Gurmukh, in GUru Sahibs
langar there is no shortage of Gareebi ( naam Abhiyaasi) GUrmukhs. After
Sri Darbar Sahibs , Langar Halls are the most majestic places in the world.

I also would like to see more bibian at the forefront and that a bibi revolution is needed. I'm not sure why bibian always tend to fall into the kitchen role. Hopefully we start getting more bibian who can't cook so they're forced to do something else.
With that said, I think Guru Sahib will do kirpa and as things start to shape up, we will see the rise of chardikala Kaurs once again.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!!1

HS1NGH jeeo -- there are just as many chadee kala bibia out there and always has been in the past and in future-- why? -- the personalities you meniton, all must have had great mothers with immense gupt kamai for them to have born such personalities you mention above.Their mention is of the least that is the trouble -- i personally feel great research needs to be done here and a separate thread on the mothers of such personaliies only. I heard of a bibi who did immense nitnem and japji while preganant- Once the child was born before the age of five the child knew nitnem by heart.-- A chardi kala Gursikh went to visit this bibi and the child , while they were sitting in the other room this child wass playing in the room next door. His mum called the child over to see this Gursikh - upon seeing the Gursikh he asked him was you doing next door son? The Gursikh was shocked at what the child said to him -- " I was talking to Guru Raam daas jee he told me to tell you that when you go to Harimandar sahib please ensure to degh there..Gursikh was in tears and advised his rohms were like on electirc as soon as he heard the child this. The he sat him on his lap and asked him to start Jaap Sahib from the middle and indeed the child did so.

Thing is HS1NGH Jeeo - chardi kala has always been and will remain so- but it's up to individuals to inspire and come forward and really do some homework on such things. Bibbian contribution to Sikh kaum is immense and remains so even TODAY!!

NS Ji,

Thanks for the account. This reminds me of a child who was born in the ''70s in the UK who had Amritdhari parents, and he had many spiritual experiences at a very young age. The boy had Darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Guru Nanak Dev Ji at the old Havelock Rd Gurdwara in Southall. When he went to India at the age of 5, he had Darshan of the Chottay Sahibzade in a rickshaw, would find himself in a beautiful places surrounded by mountains and a lake, at one of the Gurdwaras he visited he noticed a tiger on the parkarma, all of these events only he could see but he always informed his mother. By the age of 9 he had completed Sehaj paath of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

It is true that the mother who performs bhagti whilst the child is in the womb reaps many benefits.

HSINGH Ji,

I would agree with some of the other posts that the majority of Bhagti waliyaan Bibian are gupt and do not come to the forefront due to their roles within the family.

Sorry that should read that the child of the mother who performs bhagti reaps many benefits

HS1NGH Ji,

Your intentions are good, but misdirected.

You mentioned Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji, Baba Gurbachan Singh ji, and Bhai Rama Singh ji. Of those - how much do you know about their wives? Their wives were also gurmukhs. In fact, there are many Gursikh bibiyan who are bhagats, but they are just not in the front.

If you want to change something, change the patriarchal system so that Bibiyan have more opportunities to do keertan, katha and parchar.

Gursikhs should be gupt. There are lot of Gurmukh chardikala Bibiyan, most of them wants to remain Gupt. This is a true quality of Gursikh anyway.

The other possibility which GurSangat already mentioned, we have cultural issues where we restrict Bibiyan in doing prominent sewa like punj pyarey di sewa, doing kirtan in Sri Harmander Sahib etc, which is anti-gurmat.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Some interesting points have been raised in this topic. Like i said before, if the sangat thinks there is no lack – then that is great. My own experiences tell me otherwise though.

I just want to raise 3 things;

1. Do u think it is fixed that if a Singh is Chardikala/Gurmukh then his spouse automatically is too?? (I have experienced the total opposite to be absolutely honest)
2. Why does no-one ever hear from these Singhnia of those great Gurmukhs? (A note, I read the book a long time ago, but I think Bhai Rama Singh was not married.)
3. Do you think the young Singhnia of today take inspiration from Bhai Sahib or Bibi Ji (his wife)?

Also I cannot change the patriarchal system because to some degree I am a part of it. For example, if men say that women can do this and that. It is still exercising some sort of power on them. The women need to take charge of it themselves.

Take this forum for example- I don’t know the gender of individuals because of the anonymous names but it appears that it is the men that are raising the issues and the men who are defending. Where are the women?? And then tell me that things are fine the way they are.