ਕੰਠ ਖੇਡ

In Gurmat there are certain guidelines in how to handle Gurbani. These days within Akhand Kirtani Jatha it is widely accepted that we use the Amrit Kirtan pothi during Kirtan. This however was not the case during the times of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, especially before 1914. The Amrit Kirtan Pothi was created in the 1950’s and is in itself a great tool for finding Shabads. There is however a protocol in handling the Pothi. It should be placed on a reyl, not on the Vaja. The vaja has never been a suitable place to put Gurbani on. Understandably some will place a rumala neatly on the vaja for the Pothi to be put on, this still does not make it a good place for Gurbani to be placed.



Other disrespect we see of the Pothi during kirtan is Gursikhs sitting behind the kirtani will place a Pothi on a reyl – the Kirtani therefore has their back towards Gurbani. This is very disrespectful. Seldom do Gursikhs wash their hands before touching the pothi and then go on to flipping the pages over like they are searching the Yellow Pages. Other things we see are people will put the Pothi on their laps (again a non-suitable way of doing Parkash of Gurbani). On a few occasions the Pothi has been seen falling off the Vaja due to hard pumping. This is not just a set of songs put together.



ਲੋਗੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਇਹੁ ਗੀਤੁ ਹੈ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥

Kanthaagar (memorised) Gurbani singing is most efficacious for the kirtani and the sangat. When the kirtani knows they will not have the Pothi infront of them during kirtan they will make an effort to memorise Gurbani. This is also great for their jeevan since they are memorising more Gurbani. The ras (taste) of Kirtan is taken to new heights when Abhiyaas of the shabad has been done prior to singing it.



What we have to understand is that there are no limits to the degree of respect we can give to the Pothi sahib.



ਪੋਥੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਾ ਥਾਨੁ ॥



Guru Arjan Dev ji’s bani has brought to light that the pothi is the home of God and in the pothi God himself resides, so is it not the duty of the Sikhs to honour their Gurus order? When taking back the Goindwal Pothis from Baba Mohan, Guru Arjan Dev Jee ordered that they be carried on the head of Baba Buddha Jee as a form of respect. At the same time Baba Jee carried the pothis Guru Arjan Dev Jee was constantly doing parkarma (circumbulance) around them. Again, is it not the duty of the Sikhs to honour their Guru?



ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥



Bhai Atma Singh from Panjokhra Sahib was staunchly against using the Pothi on the Vaja during Keertan. If we look at the jeevan of these Gursikhs from old times we can see how much Sikhi they had inside them. Bhai Atma Singh was aptly named as ‘Pothi Jee’ by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and others in the Jatha. This was because Bhai Atma Singh had most, if not all of Siri Guru Granth Sahib memorised. In keertan Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh would sometimes signal to Bhai Atma Singh to finish of the pangtee. This was the jeevan of Puratan Singhs.



Unfortunately during the 1980’s Bhai Atma Singh was seen as a ‘hardliner’ and extremist by some leading figures in the Jatha and therefore was not allowed to take part in Jatha affairs. Bhai Sahib passed away in the early 1990’s.



The most disappointing factor is that in todays day and age we are slowly drifting away from the principles adopted by puratan Gurmukhs, codes conducts that were put in place for the reasons of respect and honour of Guru Sahib are no longer valued and don’t seem to hold any sort of significance.



To this day the maryada at Siri Harmandar Sahib Darbar Sahib Amritsar is that the Kirtan has to be done from memory. If we look back to the times of the Gurus up until the 1900’s all Kirtan was done Kanth as in them days there were no Harmoniums (introduced by the West). All Keertan took place using stringed instruments. This conduct is still in place at other Takhats and historical Gurdwaras across India.



When looking at the pothi one has to constantly keep referring back to it, therefore, there is not 100% concentration on the Shabad being sung. Our Kirtan merely becomes a performance of show and ego. These days Gursikhs who come across as being strict and ‘hardcore’ and have the biggest dumaley and Kirpans struggle to memorise small Shabads. These Gursikhs boast the strictest Rehat Bibek, unfortunately they are lacking Simran Bibek. They do not practice reading Gurbani or meditating on Naam in their own time. On the contrary our elder generation of Kirtanis will have much Bani Kanth and many Shabads Kanth. Famous Ragis of the Panth also have all their Shabads memorised. Not once have they been seen using a Pothi on top of the Vaja.

WJKK WJKF

Agree 100% -- I would like to add the speed at which naam simran done these days is way way way too fast by some kirtanis. Where is the sehaj?

A lot needs changing as menitoned above - but how - first of all is to sit with all kirtanyias and tell them to memorize shabds otherwise not allowed on stage- i.e if they have so much pyar for Guru sahib then surely they will do so and follow Harimandar sahib maraydaa. Communication is key.

KhalsaPanth jeeo, without starting a debate on this topic, much of what you have written is already written here: [www.tapoban.org] and here [tapoban.org] and also discussed in this thread: [gurmatbibek.com]

Here is some photographic evidence to the contrary:





I agree that is always better to have Gurbani Shabads memorised, but there is a way to go about this. If it was such a big issue like some Gursikhs are making out, don't you think Bhai Sahib would have spoken up, with it happening right in front of them?

A sikh is a learner and hopefully is humble enough to realise when wrong on a topic. I request Bhai Kulbir Singh to officially change his stance on "kirtan has to be from memory and pothi on vaja is major beadbi" to "it's fine to have pothi on vaja" We have now seen photographic evidence.

That's the problem with todays textbook sikhs, and I'm afraid we probably all are. We read then make our own philosphies, we haven't yet received the true gyaan from guru sahib.
Another e.g. I've heard it is unacceptable to wear trouser style pajama , but I've seen a photo of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji with it on: [akj.org]

There are other examples of manmade rehit philosphy but a sikh should try not to offend others too much so I'll leave it here.

However I'm confident guru sahib eventually does kirpa and turns a sikh from textbook rehitvaan singh (who does have some pyaar and desire for akal purakh) to jot vigaasi rehitvaan singh.

Less of the manmade theory and more of the kmayee please.

However I'm sure we can all agree that more bani kanth the better.

Since we already have Sikhitothemax which displays each shabad on the screen
what is the purpose of having a pothi sahib on the Vaja? I remember reading
somewhere that during BHai Sahibs time the Singhs wouldnt Singh a shabad
unless they have it memorized and made efforts the follow the Hukums in the shabads
they Singh.
I also heard they use to sing ( practice) the Shabad for hours before doing
kirtan seva for Sangat. I have seen many pictures of pothi sahibs on vajas during
Bhai Sahibs time but I have never seen any pictures in which the kirtani was reading
off the pothi sahib while singing kirtan. Perhaps they were there for some other reason like
if someone from sangat wanted to Sing along and didnt know the shabad through memory
they could use the Pothi Sahib???

ਗਾਂਵਣਾ ਕੰਠ ਕਾ
Sing through memory
- Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji Rehatnama

Vivek jee,

Just because someone does a dhil, does not mean that we should say it is okay to do.

Sometimes in certain situations things happen which we do not understand, but to use that as a reason to say that it is okay to place a pothi on the vaja is not very smart. If we start to say that it is okay to do such things, then there is nothing firm in the way of doing such dhils. We should always only give advice that is fully inline with Gurmat, even if the advice is almost impossible to follow, and maybe was not followed by certain prominent gursikhs.

It is true that in Bhai Sahib's time, bibian only tied a keski, but does that mean that we should stop at that? I see no harm in saying that bibian should wear keski and dastar, just as singhs do. Giving bibian the option of only tying a keski is just opening up a space for dhils.

I do not feel that by saying "kirtan has to be from memory and pothi on vaja is major beadbi" we are saying anyone who has done it before is any less of a sikh, or has any less kamayee. We are only trying to give advice that is fully inline with Gurmat.

Vivek jeeo, my stance is still that Kirtan should be from memory and Pothi should not be done Prakash on the Vaaja. Bhai Sahib jee himself used to always do Kirtan from Kanth and never used to use a Pothi on Vaaja to do Kirtan. He however did used to use "Pothi jee" (Bhai Atma Singh jee) when doing Kirtan.

Daas and Gursikhs in Sharan of whom I live, all don't allow Pothi Sahib on the Vaaja but do allow Pothi Prakash on a rael for ones who can't memorize Shabads for Kirtan, during Kirtan Samagams.

Rest, Pyara Pritam Singh has said all that Daas wanted to say.

Kulbir Singh

And, what a wonderful article Khalsa Panth jee has written. Shabaash!

"KhalsaPanth" jio! What a refreshing article! Bohat bohat dhanvadh!

Whats wrong with doing Simran 'really really fast' jee?

Well, I'm not a Kirtanayia, although I would like to be as I feel this is huge Bakhshish of Sache Patshaah. KhalsaPanth jio! Aap ji ne bohut hee informative article likheya hai, shukriya ji. From personal experience I can tell you, Avasthaa increases hugely by reading certain Baanis everyday, which eventually become Kantth.

And Sangat ji as far as I concerned, when Daas was pesh and was blessed with Amrit Ki Daat, after gving Daas Amrit, Guruji's Punj Pyaare blessed with Naam Di Daat. They taught the Swas-Giraas Gurmat Vidhi of Japping Gurmantar. As far as I am concerned, there was no Vaajaa at the Amrit Sanchaar, nor was there a Updesh given to do "VaaheGuroo, VaaheGuroo" Simran using a Vaajaa, but the Punj did say this that you are get up everyday at AmritVelaa and Jap Gurmantar Swas-Giraas, and at least 2.5 hours should be spent in Naam-Simran. So I would like to ask the Sangat ji, this practice of doing "VaaheGuroo, VaaheGuroo" using a Vaajaa with various tunes, is this an old practice? Has it been lost? Did Puratan Singhs also do this? Please clarify jee. Thank you.

VaaheGuroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa VaaheGuroo Jee Kee Fatheh!!!!

Even though I think the pothi sahib issue is important I think there are two more important puratan maryadas being neglected during Akhand Kirtan programs.

1. Kirtan should be AKHAND; Naam simran should be gupt ( kept inside/non-vocally)

2. Kirtan should not be be performed by a Kurehiti!!!

WJKK WJKF

Sukhdeep Singh Jeeo;s it' ok making points as ou have is there or has there been any progress in making those changes you mention and not just - anyone else for that matter - even Kulbir Singh jee-as he has been the main contributor on this forum for ages??

I do not think there is anything "wonderful", "refreshing", or "informative" about this article. It's made up almost entirely of recycled posts that I have listed in my earlier post and is overly critical.

I am tired of seeing posts criticising the Kirtan Smagams of today, the youth of today, or that Kirtan is not performed to their own lofty requirements. We are really creating differences and isolating different Gursikhs over these minor issues like Pothi Sahib on Vaja, Simran Dhunni in Kirtan etc. I know chardikalaa Gursikhs who love Simran in Kirtan, in fact they have said that is what attracted them to AKJ in the first place. We should go to Kirtan Smagam to take enjoy, take lahaa, have Darshan of Guru Jee and Sat Sangat, but instead we are stuck in these things.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee allowed someone with a cut beard (who might be described by some Gursikhs on this forum as a patit, kurehiti, malech, manmukh etc whatever you wish to call) to do Kirtan, but at the same time they did not allow someone who tied their beard to do Kirtan. Who can claim to make judgements like a Brahmgyani Gurmukh? This type of copycat Sikhi is not going to lead us far. I think many Gursikhs of today have made innovations in rehat in this way that were not the case in Bhai Sahibs times. Rest of the time it's what was done in Bhai Sahibs time goes, but now, I think many have become so over zealous and not wishing to listen to anyone on issues like this and rehit bibek etc. Bhai Jodh Singh Jee has proved this in his book "Saun ChiRee ChaRee Rain".

If someone can answer my question in the earlier post, that would be beneficial to this discussion and we could actually progress. How could that the same Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee, who gave Gyani Amolak Singh Jee a slap after 14 hours playing the tabla because he was trying to undo his top collar button as he was feeling hot and said not to do that, can openly allow written Gurbani Pothi Sahibs and Gutka Sahib on the vaja right in front of them? Please and thanks.

WJKK WJKF

Bhai Jaskirat Jeeo,

an equally wonderful post and very valid points- it does seem as I mentioned in an earlier thread - a thread is needed on interpetations by singhs -akj- tapoban whoever on all of his writings- as there seems to be so many many discrepancies and interpetations and Gursikhe even more complex than it needs to be.

ns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WJKK WJKF
>
> Sukhdeep Singh Jeeo;s it' ok making points as ou
> have is there or has there been any progress in
> making those changes you mention and not just -
> anyone else for that matter - even Kulbir Singh
> jee-as he has been the main contributor on this
> forum for ages??


NS Jeeo- I really dont understand your question?

Jaskirat Singh Jeeo- Bhai Sahib mentions in his books that kirtan should be non- continuous,
and the seva should be performed by a non- kurehti. We cant go by rumors about what he said and did especially
when we have his writings easily available. THe problem is nowadays we have a milgobi ( modern) mentality we are more concerned about "ekta" even if it means watering down Sikhi.

What is the sangats stand on having Gurbani on a phone?
Obviously we should make every effort to learn Gurbani off by heart, but in the instance that we need to use a Pothi Sahib and there isn't one available, is it okay to read a shabad off our phone? Similar to having it on a laptop..

WJKK WJKF

Sukhdeep Singh Jeeo,

What I mean is that this issue has been discussed for over 15 odd years in a variety of forums and 3 of which are akj and nothing has changed practically in front of our eyes when we goto smagams. On the other side of the coin any kirtania that uses the pothi sahib first and does the same shabd -4-5 tiems it will be kanth won't it??? So Pothi sahib does serve a purpose. Instead of trying to form one kind of Singhs with one kind of thinking we should be open and welcome all ideas and keep continue to learn and change if possible. You will never have a soceity with the same interpetation about something in the world let alone in one's own family we all have differing view this is universal law.

Another example if Mahraj Guru Sahib was not around when Bhai Kanhiyaaa did his seva of the enemy what do you think the narrow minded sikhs who reported him would've done to him??


We have to be adaptable and flexible to change and remain in protocol as who we are dealing (joe public and us) change rapidly over time don't they?

i dont know if you guyz have noticed but some kirtanis just write the shabad that they are going to recite on a piece of paper and put it in thier lap, and then do kirtan....

ns jee

Quote

narrow minded sikhs who reported him would've done to him??

. The Singhs that reported Bhai Kanihaya Ji were not narrow minded. Singhs in the past were far more Chardikalaa than the ones we have these days. Maharaj ne os vele apni khel vartayee see, apne vargey moorkaan noo mat dhen layee.

...as for the original post, anyone who has performed kirtan with their eyes closed, only they know the benefits...something that canot be done with Amrit Kirtan pothi. Also Kirtanis from Darbar Sahib have all Shabads kant, this must be tradition for a reason.

Unjaan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ns jee narrow minded sikhs who reported him
> would've done to him??. The Singhs that reported
> Bhai Kanihaya Ji were not narrow minded. Singhs in
> the past were far more Chardikalaa than the ones
> we have these days. Maharaj ne os vele apni khel
> vartayee see, apne vargey moorkaan noo mat dhen
> layee.


I agree with Unjaan Veer Ji it is wrong to call those Puratan Singhs narrow minded.
THose " narrow minded" Singhs became shaheed so that me and you can enjoy Sikhi
today. We should be more thankful and grateful to Singhs who sacrificed their life so others
like us can enjoy the beauty of Sikhi.
Any person in their right mind would have been stunned if they saw someone
giving food to the opposition. Bhai Ghanayia Singh Ji was right in doing so, but at the
same time those Singhs were not wrong in questioning him.

Quote
Sukhdeep Singh
Jaskirat Singh Jeeo- Bhai Sahib mentions in his books that kirtan should be non- continuous,
and the seva should be performed by a non- kurehti. We cant go by rumors about what he said and did especially
when we have his writings easily available. THe problem is nowadays we have a milgobi ( modern) mentality we are more concerned about "ekta" even if it means watering down Sikhi.

Khalsa Jee, those are not rumours, but factual events confirmed by Gursikhs that I have posted. Everything I have written above in earlier posts is true, I am sure Gursikhs like Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee can confirm this, even though they might not agree personally with it, which of course is their right to do so.

If we are so focused on how things were done "back in the day", then there is no greater time than the times of first 10 Guru Sahibaan, according to this, then we should say only Raag Kirtan from classical instruments is allowed. However everyone is willing to make exception to this because Bhai Sahib did, but similarly why not then make exception for the Pothi Sahib on Vaja?

We often hear it said and written online that no Vaheguru Simran Dhunni was done or Kirtan was performed exclusively from memory in Bhai Sahibs times. The second has already been proved incorrect. Regarding Simran, yes it is true that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee themselves never did Simran in Kirtan, but Simran was done in those times by other Kirtanis, similarly parmaans (pangtees sung from different shabads in relation to the one currently being sung) were also done, and this was while Bhai Sahib was still alive. Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Jee, Bhai Mehar Singh Jee, Bhai Mohinder Singh Jee SDO, and Gyani Amolak Singh Jee have all clarified this. If these were such big issues then I think Bhai Sahib would have spoken against it.

Is Akhand Kirtan allowed at Sri Harmandar Sahib? Are Bibi Jees allowed to do Kirtan at Sri Harmandar Sahib? We know the answers to these questions jee, so I don’t think it’s valid to keep using that example to try and prove a point.

I am surprised that no one has yet suggested that only Sarbloh Bibekis can perform Kirtan? Or perhaps that Sarbloh Bibekis can only listen to the Kirtan done by Sarbloh Bibekis? That is the sad direction we are taking these days Khalsa Jee. I am sure many Gursikhs are not going to be pleased with me for writing this, but at the risk of gaining their durassees I am still writing it because I feel it to do be truth.

Rest, I don’t have the kamaaye or jeevan to keep arguing with Gursikhs so please forgive me on this one.

Benti to all,

Please refrain from repeating posts. Several posts under this thread have been mentioning the same thing over and over again. It get's confusing after a while.

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

Jaskirta Singh Jeeo--

Guru Sahib never demanded that we learn raag and classical kirtan. If there is a rehatnama/hukum that says so please reference it. However, Guru Sahib has given hukum to sing Gurbani through memory.
ਗਾਂਵਣਾ ਕੰਠ ਕਾ
Sing through memory
Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji Rehatnama

In regards to reciting Naam Simran, during Akhand Kirtan programs it does not make sense
to recite Gurmat Naam in front of Aaam sangat. In addition, it seems odd to call oneself AKHAND
Kirtan Jatha if one is not doing Akhand Kirtan.

In regards to your comment

"I am surprised that no one has yet suggested that only Sarbloh Bibekis can perform Kirtan? Or perhaps that Sarbloh Bibekis can only listen to the Kirtan done by Sarbloh Bibekis?"

I am disappointed that you are thinking this way . Its never a good sign when someone ridicules for those who make efforts to follow Gurmat principles.

Please refer to the bottom link for more proof regarding this:
[gurmatbibek.com]

Quote
Bhai Kulbir Singh jee
I don’t remember when exactly I met Bhai Jeevan Singh jee for the first time but it must have been sometime in early nineties. Bhai Sahib at that time was in his prime and fully healthy. Around his white and rosy cheeks his snow white beard gave a very spiritual look. His Blue Dastaara was always adorned with Khanda and Chakra. It gave him the look of a Singh of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee’s times. Bhai Sahib’s countenance always reflected humility and serenity. In my whole life, I have never witnessed a person more humble than Bhai Sahib. It is hard to imagine how he would look if he was upset.

1)When he did kirtan, it seemed as if he was deeply engrossed in it and drinking nectar from it. He always kept his eyes closed while doing kirtan and if he ever happened to forget a pankiti, his wife would say it in his ears. Now when I hear his kirtan through CDs, I so much regret why I did not take full advantage of listening to his kirtan live, when I had a full chance to do so.

2)Once I said fateh to Bhai Sahib after samagam. I noticed he was wearing a watch. It looked awkward on his wrist as he was wearing Karas. I commented something along the lines that the watch he was wearing was nice. He immediately removed the watch and gave it to me. I tried not accepting it but who could say no to Bhai Sahib. If you liked his Khanda, he would remove it and give it to you. He had absolutely no attachments.

3)Once I gave Bhai Sahib a ride to Malton Gurdwara Sahib. On the way, I requested Bhai Sahib to tell me a spiritual experience from his life. He humbly replied that he was a great sinner. I persisted but he too persisted in not telling me any spiritual experience. After that I got sad and just went quiet. I did not say anything. He too kept quiet. When we reached our destination, he looked at my face which probably showed my disappointment or some other mercy-invoking expression. Bhai Sahib quietly laughed and then briefly narrated me one experience from his life. He said that once he was sitting in Kirtan behind Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee was in some great divine and spiritual colours. Bhai Sahib jee had Sarblohi mala in his hand. Bhai Jeevan Singh too was in very bairaagmai avastha. All of sudden Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee looked back at Bhai Jeevan Singh and with love touched his Sarblohi Mala on his forehead. As soon as Bhai Sahib’s mala touched Bhai Jeevan Singh jee’s forehead, he lost worldly consciousness and went to the spiritual realms. He experienced the Parkash of divine jyot.

4)Many years later, he came to Weston Gurdwara Sahib where Singhs used to gather and do abhyaas. After abhyaas, there were at least 5 or 6 Singhs who had a small talk with Bhai Sahib. During the talk we asked Bhai Sahib about dhuni in Kirtan. The first question we asked was if Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee used to do dhuni in Kirtan. He said no. Next question was if he used to do dhuni in Kirtan and he again said no. The last question was how he started doing dhuni in Kirtan. His answer was “Dekha dekhi.” Bhai Sahib said that the form of dhuni that is prevalent today was not in olden days. Dhuni only happened when it was divinely inspired or the kirtaniya could not help it. It was done in rare cases but when it did occur, it went on for hours.

May Guru Sahib do mehar and may we get darshan of Gursikhs who are beloved of our Guru Sahib.

Humbly,
Kulbir Singh

Now lets look at the bolded points numbered from 1-4.

Point 1: When he did kirtan, it seemed as if he was deeply engrossed in it and drinking nectar from it. He always kept his eyes closed while doing kirtan and if he ever happened to forget a pankiti, his wife would say it in his ears. Now when I hear his kirtan through CDs, I so much regret why I did not take full advantage of listening to his kirtan live, when I had a full chance to do so.

Such was the Jeevan of puratan GurSikhs of Jathaa. Bhai Sahib Bhai Jeevan Singh jee is an example. How many Kirtanis do you see these days who are actually engrossed in GurBaani Keertan? How many do you see getting the Russ of GurBaani? All it is just simply loud Dhunni on Vaajaa, and banging the Tabla like there is not tomorrow, and such behavior makes those outside of Jathaa dislike or hate Jathaa Singhs. We have to live to the lofty standards of True Gurmat Bibek. Ask yourself this question: do we really want to ruin the name of Jathaa? Do we really want others to slander Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Jee?

Point 2: Once I said fateh to Bhai Sahib after samagam. I noticed he was wearing a watch. It looked awkward on his wrist as he was wearing Karas. I commented something along the lines that the watch he was wearing was nice. He immediately removed the watch and gave it to me. I tried not accepting it but who could say no to Bhai Sahib. If you liked his Khanda, he would remove it and give it to you. He had absolutely no attachments.

I don't know what to ponder upon on this point, but we can dig out one key element. And that is wearing a watch is absolutely not Gurmat, as this falls under jewellery. For a GurSikh, Guruji's Karre and Kirpaans are the ultimate outside Jewels, while Naam-GurBaani is the spiritual Jewel, the Anand-Bismaadi Jewel. As Bhai Sahib Kulbeer Singh Jee pointed out, the watch looked rather awkward on Bhai Sahib's wrist. Please watch the following video of Bhai Sahib Joginder Singh Jee Talwara. Notice towards the end of the video when he is done Keertan, only then does he again wear the wristwatch which he had removed before dong Keertan. This video is from 1984, when Jathaa did Keertan at Siri Darbaar Sahib.




Point 3: Once I gave Bhai Sahib a ride to Malton Gurdwara Sahib. On the way, I requested Bhai Sahib to tell me a spiritual experience from his life. He humbly replied that he was a great sinner. I persisted but he too persisted in not telling me any spiritual experience. After that I got sad and just went quiet. I did not say anything. He too kept quiet. When we reached our destination, he looked at my face which probably showed my disappointment or some other mercy-invoking expression. Bhai Sahib quietly laughed and then briefly narrated me one experience from his life. He said that once he was sitting in Kirtan behind Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee was in some great divine and spiritual colours. Bhai Sahib jee had Sarblohi mala in his hand. Bhai Jeevan Singh too was in very bairaagmai avastha. All of sudden Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee looked back at Bhai Jeevan Singh and with love touched his Sarblohi Mala on his forehead. As soon as Bhai Sahib’s mala touched Bhai Jeevan Singh jee’s forehead, he lost worldly consciousness and went to the spiritual realms. He experienced the Parkash of divine jyot.

Such was the Jeevan of Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh jee that just by running Siri Sarboh Mala along Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh ji's forehead, made Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh jee to go in spiritual realms. Such was the atmosphere at Smagams, Singhs were in Charrdikalaa and in Vairagmai Dashaa(condition). Singhs were colored in the Love of VaaheGuroo jee. Singhs saw and had Darshan. How many occurenses such as this is likely to happen today, considering the fact how much Jathaa has stopped doing Bhagti? Bhai Jaskirat Singh jee pointed out that some Charrdikalaa Singhs in Jathaa today claim that is the VaheGuroo Dhunni that made them come into Sikhi & Jathaa, but the above point says otherwise.

Point 4: Many years later, he came to Weston Gurdwara Sahib where Singhs used to gather and do abhyaas. After abhyaas, there were at least 5 or 6 Singhs who had a small talk with Bhai Sahib. During the talk we asked Bhai Sahib about dhuni in Kirtan. The first question we asked was if Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee used to do dhuni in Kirtan. He said no. Next question was if he used to do dhuni in Kirtan and he again said no. The last question was how he started doing dhuni in Kirtan. His answer was “Dekha dekhi.” Bhai Sahib said that the form of dhuni that is prevalent today was not in olden days. Dhuni only happened when it was divinely inspired or the kirtaniya could not help it. It was done in rare cases but when it did occur, it went on for hours.

Now take a very deep look at the above point. Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh jee has clearly said that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji never did Dhunni while doing Keertan. He also said that he himself did not do Dhunni either. And Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh jee has admitted that he started doing Dhunni because he saw others doing it, perfect example would be Mohinder Singh SDO, who was actually the one to first do this the most. Again, Bhai Sahib Bhai Jeevan Singh jee did not at all once say that Dhunni is bad, but he did point out that Dhunni only happened at extremely rare cases,
and that when the Kirtaniya could not control because he/she was lost in Anand-Vismaadi Divine Colors of Naam-GurBaani, and this Dhunni would go on for hours. How many Kirtaniyes do you see these days that are at this level to do Dhunni? Kirtanis these days purposely choose to do Dhunni on certain GurBaani Panktis, at their own will.

VaaheGuroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa VaaheGuroo Jee Kee Fatheh!!!!

Regarding Simran, yes it is true that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee themselves never did Simran in Kirtan, but Simran was done in those times by other Kirtanis, ------------------and this was while Bhai Sahib was still alive

Veer Jaskirat Singh Ji, as you are sure Bhai Sahib never did it and you also report that it was done by others, is misleading. It is most probable that it was not there by others also.

I personally do not like to discuss this topic on forum, but your statement needs to be confirmed. If you are informed like that as you say and you are convinced about it, It is OK.