Shud dastaar be lowered in front of non-devotees ??

In Hindu-stan, there is a tradition of touching feet of elderly people. I have seen there are many sikh families who also follow this tradition. Some time back I attended a function and an old police inspector who drinks and has trimmed beard came there an an entire amrtidhari family touched his feet. I found that so wrong.
I dont suffer from hindu phobia but I sincerely feel that in Gurmat, age has no effect on a person's spirituality. We have been blessed with Dastaar and that dastaar shud not be lowered in front of non-devotees while touching their feet. We have been blessed with the 'Vaheguru jee kaa khalsa Vaheguru jee kee Fateh' and thats enough.

I guess its a personal choice. Some feel its nimarta to touch an elder's feet, they are right. Others feel we shouldn't bow before non-Gursikhs, thats also right. I am not too sure about this. I have been taught from childhood to touch the feet of all elders, and I still do, even though all elders in my family are non-Sikh, who always are hesitant to let me touch their feet after I took Amrit. Especially my taayaa jee, who always says “tu huN pairi hath nah laaya kar, tu lawaya kar”. I think what I respect is the relation, the rishta. No matter how much of a Gurmukh we may become, we will still be kids in the eyes of our elders. It’s their seniority only in the rishta that makes me touch their feet, not their spiritual avastha. Besides, I am no one to judge anyone’s spiritual avastha. I am not sure if I could show hankaar and refuse to touch feet of non-Sikh elders, although I am sure they wouldn’t care. I just see it as an act of nimarta that helps in killing haumai. My dad’s words always come to mind “pairi hath laun naal koi nuksaan ni hunda, jeede laaogey ohne aseesa hee deniya”.

I could be totally wrong. Baki Guru Sahib jaanan.

I totally agree with the statement .even the puratan singhs aged around 80s they ingore their feets to be touched,they just believe in guru fateh on the other hand these dunniyavi log due to their haumme they feel pleased and respected when other people touch their feets.

Out of pure humility for Guru sahib I believe an aMRITdHAREE should never touch the feet of a non- sikh. Guru Sahib has given full praise of Khalsa. Guru Sahib says Khalsa bows down to known other then Akal Purakh. How would it look if a Gursikh in Bana is bowing down to a Nigura? It would be shaming Guru Sahibs image. If we are to take on the image of GUru Sahib then we must live up to this blessings and accordingly. The bowing to others in an Indian( hindu) tradition it is not a Khalsa tradition . Once we take Amrit, non - Sikhi traditions should no longer be practiced. It is possible to practice humility without bowing down and touching the feet of a Nigura. One can simply fold their hands and lower their head in greeting. Once we take Amrit, our family is the Khalsa we should not do things that bring dishonor to our family.

There is rehatnama that says a AmritDhari Sikh should bow to a non- Sikh . Next time I come across it I will post it.

The tradition of touching feet of elders is fading out in India. Before they used to actually touch feet of their elders but then they resorted to just saying "Pairee Painda jee". This is more popular in Khatri urban families though.

This practice is not too much of a danger to to our Sikhi because the practice has almost ceased in the new generation. The new generation hardly practices touching the feet of their elders. The elders themselves now belong to the baby-boomers generation and are not that fond of this practice.

Kulbir Singh

Can we hug them? Or is that forbidden as a sin as well? Just confirming.

Thanks

Expressing love and respect for your elders while observing the restraints of Gurmat is just a fine thing to do. If the elder is a smoker, then obviously you would avoid hugging him but otherwise, there is nothing wrong in respecting and loving your elders who are not Amritdhari. An Amritdhari person has love for not only his worldly relatives but for the whole world. Everyone who meets a Bhagat feels loved and accepted.

Kulbir Singh

Large majority of wrong happening in this world is by the hands of elderly people. A large majority of politicians are elderly people and they are killers of humanity. The punj chor (5 thieves) dont die with age. Elderly people who are devoid of Naam suffer from all the 5 thieves. With age, the manmukh elders develop cleverness, learn to play with words, learn to play politics and start ruining the world.
Even in our Gurdwaras, elders use their politics and clever use of words to keep youth away from power.
I personally feel a young manmukh is less dangerous than an old manmukh because an old manmukh learns clever politics and clever use words.

Giving respect to your elders is not against Gurmat. We have our own traditions. I can understand that due to western and communist influence many of our modern generation are now against giving respect to our elders, but please do not make it Gurmat to not respect Buzurgs. Communism has done much to erode traditions like respecting one's parents, elders etc, this is especially what happened in China. Even in India, the baby boomer generation which were heavily influenced by westernism and communism, giving respect to elders began to be seen as a taboo sort of ``old fashioned`` or ``backwardness``. A person should venerate and take care of their elders.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Satan's Advocate here again:

ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰੇਹੀ ।
pairee pavan n shhoddeeai kalee kaal reharaas karaehee||
Humbly touching of the feet should not be rejected because in the dark age, this quality is the only asset (of the human personality).
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib Var 1, Pauri 3.

ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕੁ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ।
raanaa ranku baraabaree pairee paavanaa jagi varataaiaa|
Equating the poor with the prince, he spread the etiquette of humbly touching the feet.
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib Var 1 Pauri 23.

And yes, the content of the entire Shabad was read for its specific application to Gursikhs only. While one could make that argument for the first verse quoted (and even then it is not without contention), it would be difficult to apply to the second verse - jag vartaaiaa does not bind the tradition of touching feet to Sikhs only - it implies a global presence.

Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can we hug them? Or is that forbidden as a sin as
> well? Just confirming.
>
> Thanks


Whenever I meet family member or old friend who is not Sikh I hug them instead of shaking their hands or any other greeting. I dont think its sinful to show affection to others as long as we stay firm in Gurmat principles.

ms514 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
>
> Satan's Advocate here again:
>
> ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ
> ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ
> ਕਰੇਹੀ ।
> pairee pavan n shhoddeeai kalee kaal reharaas
> karaehee||
> Humbly touching of the feet should not be rejected
> because in the dark age, this quality is the only
> asset (of the human personality).
> Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib Var 1, Pauri 3.
>
> ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕੁ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ
> ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ
> ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ।
> raanaa ranku baraabaree pairee paavanaa jagi
> varataaiaa|
> Equating the poor with the prince, he spread the
> etiquette of humbly touching the feet.
> Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib Var 1 Pauri 23.
>
> And yes, the content of the entire Shabad was read
> for its specific application to Gursikhs only.
> While one could make that argument for the first
> verse quoted (and even then it is not without
> contention), it would be difficult to apply to the
> second verse - jag vartaaiaa does not bind the
> tradition of touching feet to Sikhs only - it
> implies a global presence.



I think the pangti you have quoted

> ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰੇਹੀ ।

refers to Gursikhs because Bhai Sahib mentions how the other faiths greet each other. Even though I see no harm in touching a Gursikhs feet I think this pangti is not referring to the physical feet but instead the internal feet. I think the pangti is referring to Naam Japi. Because Bhai Sahib says net to let go of your swas ( ਪਵਣੁ) and do praise ( rehras) while on the inner feet. There is a pangti in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which also says " breath on Guru Sahib charan" it does not make sense to say phsically breathe on Gurus Charan obviously the pangti is referring to the internal charan. When I come across the pangti I will post it.



HJ SIngh not touching an elders feet has nothing to do with Sikhi. In Sikhi we touch a persons feet not out of mere custom but out of purpose. If somebody does alot of seva or Naam Abhyiaas then we are always feel compelled to touch their feet out of respect, but a Gurmukh would never just do such an act out of mere cultural customs. I would never touch a persons feet who smokes, drinks, or eats meat it doesnt matter how old they are. We need to stop mixing Hindu customs with Tat Gurmat.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Pavanh is not referring to breath. Pavanh refers to Paina - Pairi Paina means to fall at someone's feet.

Quote

Satan's Advocate here again:

Ha Ha, ms514 Veer Ji, I am with you for this "court" case, again.

Baba Farid Ji, tells to kiss the feet of the enemies. ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੈ ਮਾਰਨਿ ਮੁਕੀਆਂ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਮਾਰੇ ਘੁੰਮਿ ॥ ਆਪਨੜੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪੈਰ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਚੁੰਮਿ ॥੭॥ And that SINGH JI on "railways station booking window" did that to that police man. (For those who know that incident, which we discussed under humbleness.)

May be presently we are not discussing humbleness.

Guru Fateh is enough, as Harinder Singh Ji says. It certainly looks odd when a Gursikh bows to a Patit. But humbleness is rare too.

ms514 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
>
> Pavanh is not referring to breath. Pavanh refers
> to Paina - Pairi Paina means to fall at someone's
> feet.


ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰੇਹੀ ।
ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕੁ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ।


In the following pangtia I think its safe to say the pangti is referring to the meeting of Gursikhs with one another. I think we can all agree with this. Thus no where does it mention touching the feet of any patit. I have not come across any pangti in which Bhai Sahib recommends touching the feet of non- Sikhs.

In regards to Pairi Paina Na Chhadeeah I am of the opinion that the meaning is do not let the breath go of the internal charan of Guru Sahib when meeting Gursikh. Meaning always remember Guru Sahib when meeting a Gursikh. Lets take a look of the pangti before

ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰੇਹੀ ।

The pangti is

ਗੁਰਭਾਈ ਸੰਤੁਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਤੁ ਲੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਿਵੇਹੀ ।

The Gur-Brothers ( Gursikhs) get contentment from drinking the Charan Amrit. next BHai Sahib mentions
ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਕਲੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰੇਹੀ ।

One cannot drink Charan Amrit from another Gursikhs feet. How can this possibly be? Charan Amrit only comes from Guru Sahibs charan. no doubt Gurmukh- Sants are imbued in Amrit but we cannot say their feet is CharanAmrit such a gift only comes from the Guru in which all GuruBhais equally share amongst meeting each other. The meaning is Gursikhs get great contentment through quenching the Amrit via Naam Jaapi ( rehras) when meeting each other.

In the following Shabad

[www.sikhitothemax.com]

Bhai Sahib mentions through this method of Naam Jaapi there is no distinction between poor and rich, old and young. All Guru Bhais are equal. So its fair to say touching the feet of elders is not a Gurmat tradition, because in Sikhi there is no distinction between old and young. It does not seem right for a Guru Ka Sikh to touch the feet of a veymukh. There are plenty methods of showing humility , pyaar, respect etc without touching their feet. For a Gursikh it only seems right to bow at Guru-Khalsa.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Chalo, you have your own interpretations and views. That is the point of playing Devil's Advocate...to make it obvious that not everything can be interpreted only one way, though I will admit that your interpretation of Pavanh is unique, but it does not sit well with me. What is to stop me from taking that one should not stop grabbing the air with one's feet? The translation of Pavanh in your interpretation seems to be against common logic of a common Punjabi phrase.

"I think we can all agree with this." - obviously not.

In the words of Bhai Kulbir Singh, Guru Sahib knows better.

ms514 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
>
> Chalo, you have your own interpretations and
> views. That is the point of playing Devil's
> Advocate...to make it obvious that not everything
> can be interpreted only one way, though I will
> admit that your interpretation of Pavanh is
> unique, but it does not sit well with me. What is
> to stop me from taking that one should not stop
> grabbing the air with one's feet? The translation
> of Pavanh in your interpretation seems to be
> against common logic of a common Punjabi phrase.
>
>
> "I think we can all agree with this." - obviously
> not.
>
> In the words of Bhai Kulbir Singh, Guru Sahib
> knows better.


There are many mystical meanings in Gurbani . Lets not forget Gurbani is divine poetry we cant take every word for its literal meaning even if seem logical or relates to punjabi phrases. Air is referring to Swas, and Charan ( holy feet) is not referring to ones feet, but instead referring to Guru Sahibs amrit Charan.

Take along at the following pangti

ਲੇ ਪਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਝਲਉ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਲਾਵੇ ॥2॥

Holding the fan, sitting at His Feet, I wave it over my Beloved. The five demons who tortured me have run away. ||2||

The following translation does not make sense it would seem ludicrous for one wave to wave a fan ( pakha) over their beloveds ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ( Guru Sahibs ) holy feet? Actually it seems illogical for one to do such a thing. Instead pakha ( faN) like Pavan is referring to swas . It cannot be possible that feet in this pangti is referring to the physical feet of Guru Sahib.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"There are many mystical meanings in Gurbani." Right...and yet, you insist on proving that your interpretation is correct over someone else's (the translator of Vaarn Bahi Gurdas Sahib, not me). So if you admit that there are many mystical meanings in Gurbani, and that Gurbani can speak in the same words many meanings to individuals with different levels of spirituality/intellect, then why is only your interpretation correct and you are intent on proving it?

"Air is referring to Swas, and Charan ( holy feet) is not referring to ones feet, but instead referring to Guru Sahibs amrit Charan." - so says the verse to you. To others, it says something else. If Gurbani is called an Aagadh Bodh, it is precisely because it is not so simple as to be translated only one way and no other way is correct. I would go as far as to apply this to Bhai Gurdas Sahib's work as well.

ms514 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
>
> "There are many mystical meanings in Gurbani."
> Right...and yet, you insist on proving that your
> interpretation is correct over someone else's (the
> translator of Vaarn Bahi Gurdas Sahib, not me).
> So if you admit that there are many mystical
> meanings in Gurbani, and that Gurbani can speak in
> the same words many meanings to individuals with
> different levels of spirituality/intellect, then
> why is only your interpretation correct and you
> are intent on proving it?
>
> "Air is referring to Swas, and Charan ( holy feet)
> is not referring to ones feet, but instead
> referring to Guru Sahibs amrit Charan." - so says
> the verse to you. To others, it says something
> else. If Gurbani is called an Aagadh Bodh, it is
> precisely because it is not so simple as to be
> translated only one way and no other way is
> correct. I would go as far as to apply this to
> Bhai Gurdas Sahib's work as well.


Im not insisting people accept my interpretation nor have I stated my interpretation is the most correct. If I have made any misinterpretations then please carefully point them out to me as I am willing to learn from my mistakes.

My main point is the pangti you initially provided has no mention of Gursikhs touching other peoples feet keeping in mind this is what the original discussion was about. Khalsa does not touch any non Gursikhs feet This is an important rehat/principle to follow so If someone tries to use Gurbani and say it is acceptable to touch a veymukhs feet then I only feel obligated to refute their claims.

Veer Kulbir Singh Ji Kirpa Karo, kindly let us know your views; may be very precisely.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"This is an important rehat/principle to follow so If someone tries to use Gurbani and say it is acceptable to touch a veymukhs feet then I only feel obligated to refute their claims."

So far, two pangti have been provided brom Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Sahib about touching feet. You have provided your unique interpretation of them. I have already stated that others do not agree with the translation. You assert that it is not within Gurmat to touch a "Veymukhs" feet. Citation of history of Guru Raam Das Sahib and Baba Sri Chand, Guru Amar Das and Bhai Datu, and a Rangle Sajjan from Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh's time seem at odds with this.

If it is so unequivocally against Gurmat and Rehat, please provide a Rehatnama /Gurbani verse that states that bowing down and touching the feet of elders (not counting cigarette smokers and daughter killers...those have been expressly forbidden) in a sign of respect.

Rest, Sangat can decide.

The following translation does not make sense it would seem ludicrous for one wave to wave a fan ( pakha) over their beloveds ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ( Guru Sahibs ) holy feet? Why?
Actually it seems illogical for one to do such a thing. Why?

Instead pakha ( faN) like Pavan is referring to swas . It cannot be possible that feet in this pangti is referring to the physical feet of Guru Sahib.

Ok, now please care to explain what is implied by ਕੇਸ in the following panktees

ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ - ang 387
ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਦਾਸ ਪਗ ਝਾਰਉ ਇਹੈ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਮੋਰ ॥੧॥ - ang 500
ਕੇਸਾ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਬੀਜਨਾ ਸੰਤ ਚਉਰੁ ਢੁਲਾਵਉ ॥ - ang 745
ਕੇਸਾ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਚਵਰੁ ਢੁਲਾਵਾ ਚਰਣ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ - ang 749
ਟਹਲ ਕਰਉ ਤੇਰੇ ਦਾਸ ਕੀ ਪਗ ਝਾਰਉ ਬਾਲ ॥ - ang 810
ਦਿਵਸ ਰੈਨਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਾਉ ਪਲੋਸਉ ਕੇਸ ਚਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਫੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ - ang 969
ਨੈਨਹੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਚਰਨ ਝਾਰੀ ਕੇਸਾਇਓ ॥ - ang 1217

Here Gurbani talks about cleaning Gurujee's charan with kes, wiping the charan of sants with kes, and even brushing away flies with kes. How would you translate a mystical version of these tuks and translate ਕੇਸ mystically? If charan was not referring to Gurujee's physical feet, then what does ਕੇਸ refer to in the above mentioned tuks? Please shed some light, now I am really interested.

Perhaps I was not clear in my previous post. I have never once said it was wrong to touch the feet of a Gurmukh.

Bhai Methab Singh Ji I the pangti you mentioned I take literally . I donot see it as wrong to apply the saints ( Gurmukhs) feet to ones Kesh ( dhara) . This is why we are advised to do Joria Seva and apply to the dust to our matha and dhara. Guru Sahib gives us the Hukum to " give me the dust of sangats feet) - thus is does not go against to wipe the joria of Sants feet and apply to ones Kesh.

MS514- Veer Ji

In regards to Guru Sahib touching a Veymukhs feet I have not heard this before. My understanding is that the upset Baba Chand arrogantly asked Guru Sahib why he has such a big beard, and Guru Sahib decided to teach the arrogant Baba Chand a lesson. Guru Sahib then replied " to wipe the dust off your feet". Through this act Baba Chand realized why he was the True Guru. Guru Sahib did not wipe his feet because he was older or out of mere custom, instead Guru Sahib wiped the dust of the arrogant persons feet to teach him a lesson on humility and who is the True Guru . Same with Guru Amar Das Ji he also wanted to teach the arrogant Bhai Datu a lesson in humility. If we are touching an elders feet as a formality this has nothing to do with humility. Khalsa does not believe in such formalities.

This is all getting too contradictory.

I donot see it as wrong to apply the saints ( Gurmukhs) feet to ones Kesh ( dhara) . This is why we are advised to do Joria Seva and apply to the dust to our matha and dhara. Guru Sahib gives us the Hukum to " give me the dust of sangats feet) - thus is does not go against to wipe the joria of Sants feet and apply to ones Kesh

On one hand it is forbidden to touch feet of a veymukh, fine, and on the other hand we are fine if we apply a Gurmukh Sants dust to our forehead (matha)? Where is the dignity of the dastaar now? You said "give me the dust of sangats feet", how do we define sangat here? Is it only Amritdhari Gursikhs or is it anyone who comes to the Gurdwara (because that is also sangat). Most importantly, by which measuring scale are we going to measure if someone who seems to be or looks like a Gurmukh is infact a Gurmukh or not? Because someone who merely looks like a Gursikh could be in fact the worst person ever (for example myself).

Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is all getting too contradictory.
>
> I donot see it as wrong to apply the saints (
> Gurmukhs) feet to ones Kesh ( dhara) . This is why
> we are advised to do Joria Seva and apply to the
> dust to our matha and dhara. Guru Sahib gives us
> the Hukum to " give me the dust of sangats feet) -
> thus is does not go against to wipe the joria of
> Sants feet and apply to ones Kesh
>
> On one hand it is forbidden to touch feet of a
> veymukh, fine, and on the other hand we are fine
> if we apply a Gurmukh Sants dust to our forehead
> (matha)? Where is the dignity of the dastaar now?
> You said "give me the dust of sangats feet", how
> do we define sangat here? Is it only Amritdhari
> Gursikhs or is it anyone who comes to the Gurdwara
> (because that is also sangat). Most importantly,
> by which measuring scale are we going to measure
> if someone who seems to be or looks like a Gurmukh
> is infact a Gurmukh or not? Because someone who
> merely looks like a Gursikh could be in fact the
> worst person ever (for example myself).



Bhai Sahib in the pangtis you provided Guru Sahib is regarding sangat to those Gurmukhs who live in accordance to Gurmat. If a person has taken Amrit and is genuine in wanting to follow Gurmat then they are to be considered as Gurmukh even if they make mistakes by fault. Many times when Guru Sahib become the dust of everyones feet- everyone is referring to everyone in the Sadh Sangat- meaning do make distinctions between your brothers and sisters. Guru Sahib has given us three simple principles to live by

1. Offer your head to Gur-Sangat
2. Abandon all hopes but the hope to serve at the holy feet of Sadh-Sangat/khalsa
3. Be the dust of the entire Sadh Sangat

By following these principles then we get Darshan of Guru Sahib.

ਪਹਿਲਾ ਮਰਣੁ ਕਬੂਲਿ, ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਛਡਿ ਆਸ ॥
ਹੋਹੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁਕਾ ਤਉ ਆਉ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥

YEs you are right many people go to the Gurdwara and do not live in accordance. Wiping their shoes is different then touching their feet. Because when we wipe the sangats ( Gurmukhs who live in accordance to Gurmat) we do without a cunning mind. We dont think or contemplate about it. We just recite Gurmantar and wipe the shoes off the GUrmukhs. If it happens to be that a veymukhs shoes are around then there is no harm. Besides such Veymukhs must have some fortune to go out of their way to come to the Gurdwara even if they come for the wrong reasons. Again this is different then picking a specific individual like a relative and touching their feet. When wiping sangats shoes we do randomly we dont wipe them because so and so put their shoes there we wipe the shoes without a cunning mind. Then we apply the dust to our kesh ( beard) and face. I never mentioned putting dust on dastar , but still I see no harm in putting a Gurmukhs dust anywhere on the body. Cleaning ones body with their dust is the true ishnaan.When Guru Sahib mentions sangat he is referring to sadh sangat and taking applying their dust to ones body is the true ishnaan.


ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਮਜਨੁ ਕੀਆ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਗ ਨਾਏ ਧੂਰਿ ॥੨॥

Through great fortune we have been initiated into the Gurus society ( SatSangat) we should strictly be concerned about being the dust of GUru Saibs society. How are we to progress in Sikhi if we have a "Hardeghi Chamcha" mentality and start adopting other customs outside of Gurmat?Again , touching a persons feet due to their age or family status is a Hindu Custom and is not part of Gurmat Tradition. I hope you are not getting offended . In no way am I saying to disrespect your parents. You can give them love and respect without touching their feet, but the choice is yours. You are at liberty to practice Sikhi how you see it. My understanding is that an AmritDhari Singh would never touch the feet who is not part of Gur-KHalsa panth.

Bhai Gurdaas jee's Vaars clearly write that when Gursikhs used to meet, they used to touch each others Charan but Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee after creating Khalsa, ordered them to say Fateh when meeting, instead of touching each other's feet. Now normally when Gurmukhs meet, they say fateh to each other. Having said that, still it is not wrong to attemp to touch a Gurmukh's Charan.

Normally, Gurmukhs don't touch feet of non-Gurmukhs but there is a very interesting incident from the life of Bhai Sarvan Singh Phalewal, who was a companion of Bhai Sahib. Bhai Sarvan Singh was standing on the platform of a railway station and went into Samadhi. He was in divine mystical state when a policeman came and said something to Bhai Sarvan Singh jee but since he was in a state of Samadhi he could not hear the policeman's voice. At this the policeman slapped Bhai Sarvan Singh across the face and this resulted in Bhai Sahib jee coming out of Samadhi. Extreme humility took over Bhai Sahib jee and he immediately fell at the feet of the Manmukhi policeman seeking forgiveness for violating his orders. As soon as he had done this, the policeman cried out loudly and fell on the ground crying in pain. A very excruciating pain took over the policeman because a Jyot-vigaasi Gurmukh had touched his feet causing a huge bad Karma to hit him.

The detailed account of this Saakhi can be found in Ranglay Sajjan book by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee. The aforementioned Saakhi proves that in some cases, Gurmukhs do touch feet of Manmukhs. I have seen Bhai Jeevan Singh during middle of Ran Subaayee touching feet of a person who was very much against him. Bhai Sahib was sitting downstairs in Langar hall then. This individual happened to come and stand near Bhai Sahib jee. Bhai Sahib touched his feet and said something to him in a very humble way. From that day onwards, this individual softened up his stand for Bhai Sahib.

This Daas is not saying that Gurmukhs should go around touching other people's feet but the point this Daas is trying to make is that it is not outright kurehit to do so. In some cases exceptions are taken to this rule of not touching anyone's feet.

Kulbir Singh

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"My understanding is that an AmritDhari Singh would never touch the feet who is not part of Gur-KHalsa panth."

"This Daas is not saying that Gurmukhs should go around touching other people's feet but the point this Daas is trying to make is that it is not outright kurehit to do so. In some cases exceptions are taken to this rule of not touching anyone's feet."

Ahhhh...there it is. Thank you all.

I hope you are not getting offended . In no way am I saying to disrespect your parents. You can give them love and respect without touching their feet, but the choice is yours. You are at liberty to practice Sikhi how you see it. My understanding is that an AmritDhari Singh would never touch the feet who is not part of Gur-KHalsa panth.

No Bhai Sukhdeep Singh ji, not offended, just trying to clarify doubts. Like I said before, after I took Amrit, my family members (all non-Sikhs) stopped expecting me to touch their feet. I was only concerned because I didn't want to be viewed as a hankaari if I refused to touch feet of elders, since then they would presume that all Gursikhs are hankaari. But I see your point and now I can see how things fall in place. Thanks for taking the time to explain. As stated earlier, I guess a full-blown "Punjabi japhee" should do the trick as elders would prefer those and it wouldn't give them time to think "he didn't touch my feet", LOL!

This Daas is not saying that Gurmukhs should go around touching other people's feet but the point this Daas is trying to make is that it is not outright kurehit to do so. In some cases exceptions are taken to this rule of not touching anyone's feet.

You are right Bhai Kulbir Singh ji, but alas, I don't know if I can ever reach the avastha of the 2 Gurmukh pyaare you mentioned.

Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope you are not getting offended . In no way am
> I saying to disrespect your parents. You can give
> them love and respect without touching their feet,
> but the choice is yours. You are at liberty to
> practice Sikhi how you see it. My understanding is
> that an AmritDhari Singh would never touch the
> feet who is not part of Gur-KHalsa panth.
>
> No Bhai Sukhdeep Singh ji, not offended, just
> trying to clarify doubts. Like I said before,
> after I took Amrit, my family members (all
> non-Sikhs) stopped expecting me to touch their
> feet. I was only concerned because I didn't want
> to be viewed as a hankaari if I refused to touch
> feet of elders, since then they would presume that
> all Gursikhs are hankaari. But I see your point
> and now I can see how things fall in place. Thanks
> for taking the time to explain. As stated earlier,
> I guess a full-blown "Punjabi japhee" should do
> the trick as elders would prefer those and it
> wouldn't give them time to think "he didn't touch
> my feet", LOL!
>
> This Daas is not saying that Gurmukhs should go
> around touching other people's feet but the point
> this Daas is trying to make is that it is not
> outright kurehit to do so. In some cases
> exceptions are taken to this rule of not touching
> anyone's feet.
>
> You are right Bhai Kulbir Singh ji, but alas, I
> don't know if I can ever reach the avastha of the
> 2 Gurmukh pyaare you mentioned.


Your right Veer Ji sometimes family members may assume that we are a hankaree when following certain Gurmat maryada. Over 90 percent of my family are Veymukhs, and many often think Im a hankaree for not eating from them or socializing with them when they go to places that have meat and alcohol. I remember some young relatives go real upset when I mentioned that they could not tie rakhree on me anymore. They to assume that all Sikhs are full of Ego and think their better then others because they dont follow the same customs as them.

Following Rehat Maryada becomes difficult at times when belonging to or living amongst non - Amrithdhari people. But in a way this is also a blessing in a disguise because its a way of challenging us and keeping us on our toes.

Quote

This Daas is not saying that Gurmukhs should go around touching other people's feet but the point this Daas is trying to make is that it is not outright kurehit to do so. In some cases exceptions are taken to this rule of not touching anyone's feet.

Thats rite.
I went to a hilly area in HP some time back. Its not visited by many people and is a very lonely place ( I like lonely places). There is an old non-sikh pahaari lady (about 75) who lives there. I needed a place to cook my food. She invitied me to her small hut and told me that I can cook whatever I want. She talked to me like I was her son. When I was about to leave, I felt like touching her feet.
So I agree its not an outright kurehit to touch a non-sikh's feet but the point I was trying to make in my original post was about the uselessness of Indian (hindu) ritual of touching feet of ANY elderly person to meet.