Can Other Religions Reach Sachkand?

I just wanted to add this from what sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale said about other religions reaching sachkand. I've just copied and pasted some answers that show how other religions can reach sachkand and are equal in obtaining waheguru. (Below is copied and pasted from another forum.) I also wanted to write this here as some person was doing ninda of krishan bhagwan (Waheguru) etc. Also to confirm this I also heard another brahmgiani confirm these questions below with exactly the same answers that sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale said. It's amazing how divine knowledge (brahm gian) can help us all clear our doubts.

I sincerely hope this clears the doubts of many people.

6. In Kalyug, can Sachkhand be attained without Khande Batte Da Amrit ?

- Sant ji said, whoever did naam di kaamie from any bhek will attain sackhand. There are many ways to meet Vahiguroo, whosoever did naam kaamie after receiving spiritual discourses from saints will get to sachkhand. However, there is only condition, sant/mahapursh should be pooran gyanvan/bhramgyani. He/she could be from any matt, jatt/patt.

7. Did the devi/devtae (Krishan Bhagwan etc) attain Sachkhand, if so how, because in Bachitar Natak Guru Ji states they all got lost in maya and that why Guru Ji had to come?

- Sant ji said, krishan maharaj is also avtar of vahiguroo, he is always in sachkhand. Wherever he steps, that place becomes sachkhand.

8. Are the bhatts/bhagats who have their writings in Guru granth Sahib Ji, actually the Devi/Devtae reborn and attained SachKhand through Guru Ji?

- Sant ji said, guru maharaj took gurbani from bhagats who were mukht(liberated). They were mukht before sri guru nanak dev ji came in physical form. Vahiguroo is only one, vahiguroo is the one takes avtar from ages to ages. Some people call him narsingh, raam, krishan, sri guru nanak dev ji etc there all one. To see any distination or have any partiality is work of agyani pursh(ignorant ones) not aim or work of gyanvan bhramgyanis.

manswisdom, can you please give some gurbani evidence that says krishan is wahiguroo's avtar?

can you give any gurbani evidence that proves that other religions reach sachkhand?

only through naam can one reach sachkhand. only through guru sahib can one have naam. seems pretty simple to me.

Ok this may sound weird to you bhagauti but I once used to read a lot of english translations of gurbani from various books, internet etc. I thought the english meanings were correct and got the gist meanings at least of gurbani, but the more I read and learnt the more questions that arised about sikhi. Of course my knowledge increased but so did the number of questions like for e.g. right now I have quoted the brahm gian of a saint to you and you have replied with questions. Hence this was happening to me when I was learning the arth of gurbani in english.
Anyway my point is this that 1 day with Maharaj ji's kirpa I met a brahm giani and I asked him a lot of questions regarding gurbani and some of them were the questions addressed above in my original post about krishan bhagwan. I quoted how gurbani said this and punjabi and english translations said that etc. Basically when I said certain stuff the brahm giani started to correct me and I came to the conclusion that the english and panjabi arth(meaning) were "terrible" and some were completely wrong! BTW just to let you know each tuk of gurbani cannot be translated in 1 line.
You got to remember that the tuk in english or panjabi is translated by a person who is not a brahm giani, how can they explain gurbani?! Anyway each tuk was responded with true arth from the brahm giani and with each tuk came a huge sakhi. I had a list of so many question regarding gurbani but I barely went through 3 tuks and it took the brahm giani 3 hours to explain to me. I was furious with how the english tuks are soooo bad! Anyway then I asked how can I obtain the true meaning of gurbani and he goes through self realisation (i'm not going to talk about self realisation as that is another huge topic). He goes once obtaining a lot of kamai all your doubts will vanish and you understand everything you read in gurbani and get divine knowledge.
But still to this day I am not self realised so I am not going to quote any translations of gurbani that I am not sure of. Hence I will only try to spread information I've obtained from a brahm giani and your two questions I cannot address Bhaguati. But you can always ask sant Jagjit singh when he comes to the uk or if you go india. There will surely have the anwser and proof you seek through gurbani for your questions.

N.B.
I am not telling anyone not to read the meanings to gurbani as it was guru jis' kirpa that by reading them I started to have more prem for waheguru. But all I am saying is that once you have enough prem for guru ji do do bani, simran, amritwela etc. Don't get too caught up in the meaning as they will cause a lot of confusion etc (as explained above). But personally for beginner to sikhi they need to first learn the arth to make them understand gurbani (even though they are not all correct) but some are spot on. For e.g. You may wonder why people debate on gurbani because they are using their own interpretation on gurbani that they understand, while another will be using his own interpretation hence causing an argument. But have you ever seen a brahm giani debate with another brahm giani? No, because the devine knowledge and interpretation of gurbani is the same and was from the beginning.

manswisdom if you can't provide gurbani evidence that krishan is waheguroo's avtar, then stop making claims. gurbani is full brahmgian and if there is no gurbani line that proves that krishan is waheguroo, then he is not waheguroo.

rss also says krishan is waheguroo and you are also saying the same thing. whats the difference? stop turning sikhism into hinduism.

To 1kaur you wrote:
"only through naam can one reach sachkhand. only through guru sahib can one have naam. seems pretty simple to me."
Your first part is spot on that naam can get you to sackhand but your second half of your sentence isn't wrong either but requires some further elaboration. It seems to me your thinking of guru sahib here in your sentence only in sargun form (physical form), which he came in form in 1469 but guru ji was in nirgun form since the beginning but so were raam, narsingh, krishan bhagwan etc (as they were all 1 (waheguru)) However they took sargun form at different times.

Like sant jagjit singh says here: "Sant ji said, guru maharaj took gurbani from bhagats who were mukht(liberated). They were mukht before sri guru nanak dev ji came in physical form. Vahiguroo is only one, vahiguroo is the one takes avtar from ages to ages. Some people call him narsingh, raam, krishan, sri guru nanak dev ji etc there all one. To see any distination or have any partiality is work of agyani pursh(ignorant ones) not aim or work of gyanvan bhramgyanis."
So in contrast to what you said. Naam was here in the beginning but was being meditated upon in a different way for e.g. har, ram etc and then only in kaljug was the mantar of waheguru. So not only guru sahib but all the other avatars of religions can give you naam and get you to sachkand as they were all 1. Also even pooran brahm giani can give naam as stated by sant ji.

Through the ages it has been described by the Vedic Rishis’ as Akaash Bani, Kattha Akattha and the Hebrew sages as ‘Memra’. In Biblical terms it is the Word, Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit. To the ancient Greek philosophers it is Logos or Gnosis. Sufi faqirs referred to it as Kalma, Baagi- Asmani. The Gurus and Bhagats eloquently described it in verse as Mithi Bani, Naam, Anhad shabad and Anhad bani to name but a few. So all religion have naam or prayer to get to sachkand. Further for e.g. Bhagat Kabeer Ji was already liberated by japping ram ram before guru nanak even came to sargun form.

Also here is something interesting for you to think about, this was another question asked to sant jagjit singh.

2. Sikhs beleive in first dhuni(resosance) is ong, hindus beleive in first dhuni in aum, islam beleive in first dhuni being kun which one is it?

Sant ji said the whole creation is made in maya(upadi). Even dhuni has an element of upadi. Therefore, nirgun paratma doesnt have any change. All the dhunis are there, there are all lower than nirvakalap samadhi. In that stage, there is no shabad nor there is a dhuni. just vismaad avastha.


To Bhaugti did you read what I wrote? OK you know what write these questions down and ask a brahm giani yourself but I advise you not to give the same reply you gave to me to them.(Calling them rss)

You wrote:
"and if there is no gurbani line that proves that krishan is waheguroo, then he is not waheguroo."

Like I said gurbani does prove that krishan is waheguru, why would Sant Jagjit say the above and another brahm giani I spoke to said the same as well? Thats why I'm asking you to clear your doubts yourself (You probably have been reading the english translations of the internet/books etc which won't help in this situation as they don't dig deep enough to show what each tuk really means.)

Also you asked:
"rss also says krishan is waheguroo and you are also saying the same thing. whats the difference? stop turning sikhism into hinduism."

If you read my first post your answer was there I'll rewrite what sant ji wrote again.

"Vahiguroo is only one, vahiguroo is the one takes avtar from ages to ages. Some people call him narsingh, raam, krishan, sri guru nanak dev ji etc there all one. To see any distination or have any partiality is work of agyani pursh(ignorant ones) not aim or work of gyanvan bhramgyanis"

Also this is what I wrote a few days ago addressing another issue on another forum but I think it ties here quiet well to each religion can reach sachkand and meet waheguru. My post is on this page under the name of MansWisdom here:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/53559-is-having-hair-mandatory-in-sikhism/page__st__30

Also here was another question asked to Sant Jagjit Singh:

16. Can we contemplate on our own vairaat saroop as well like how krishan maharaj contemplate on his vairaat saroop and how krishan maharaj showed his vairaat saroop to arjan ji -

- Sant ji said, krishan maharaj showed huge saroop of Isher(Sargun form of God) in which 7 ethers/sky are consider isher (head), 7 patals are consider his feets, vital force system is consider his nostrils, chand(moon) and sooraj(sun) are considered his eyes. His heart is considered as Vishnu and bhram and shiv are considerd his two hands. All nadis(ocean) are consider his veins and all the mountains are consider his bones and all the nature are considered his praticles(rom).

We cannot contemplate on our own vairaat saroop because we are not made of shud satogun(maya). Avtars are made of maya, they make their own body as big they want or as small they want.

yes, i agree, naam has always been here, and will always be.

but the idea that it somehow means krishan or raam avtaar were guru sahib? no. that's not gurmat.

i'm not interested in what other faiths teach, shabad guru is perfect, it teaches everything i need to know.

so please quote gurbani, not "sants" when making stories about krishan being guru sahib.

krishan jee could not BE guru, because gurbani says he fell at the feet of the guru.


ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਆਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥
Service to the Guru is pleasing to the Lord Himself.

ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੁ ਬਲਭਦ੍ਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਗ ਲਗਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥
Even Krishna and Balbhadar meditated on the Lord, falling at the Guru's Feet.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਤਰਾਵੈ ॥੪॥੫॥੪੩॥
O Nanak, the Lord Himself saves the Gurmukhs. ||4||5||43|


krishan jee and raam chandra achieved their status through the Guru:


ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਿ ਗੋਵਰਧਨ ਧਾਰੇ ॥
Through the Guru's Teachings, Krishna lifted up the mountain of Govardhan.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਾਇਰਿ ਪਾਹਣ ਤਾਰੇ ॥
Through the Guru's Teachings, Rama floated stones across the ocean.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ॥੧੦॥
Accepting the Guru's Teachings, the supreme status is obtained; O Nanak, the Guru eradicates doubt. ||10||

Manswisdome jeeo,

Ultimately, we must rely on Gurbani for Gurmat fundamentals. It is quite possible that what Baba Jagjit Singh jee has said may not be what has been translated as his true intention may have been lost in the translation. Nevertheless, views may be different but this Daas has full respect for Baba jee's Nirmal jeevan and vast knowledge. Hopefully, we can do Gurmat Vichaar with mutual respect and love for each other. If we can't talk about different views, with love and respect, then there is no point in discussing at all.

Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan.

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Sant ji said, whoever did naam di kaamie from any bhek will attain sackhand. There are many ways to meet Vahiguroo, whosoever did naam kaamie after receiving spiritual discourses from saints will get to sachkhand. However, there is only condition, sant/mahapursh should be pooran gyanvan/bhramgyani. He/she could be from any matt, jatt/patt.

Since you have invoked that we should ask Brahmgyani, Daas invokes Bonafide Pooran Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee. Bhai Sahib has written in very clear words that without the true Naam no one can reach Sachkhand and without Satguru no one can give Naam. This means that without Satguru no one has ever attained Vaheguru. Please ponder upon the following Pankiti:

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਪੁ ਰਖਿਓਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥
(No one has attained Vaheguru without Satguru because Vaheguru has placed himself in Satguru).

There is only one Satguru and that is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. No other Bhekh can reach Sachkhand because no other Bhekh talks about Sachkhand. Gurmat is the first Matt that talks about Sachkhand and other faiths are not even aware that there is a Sachkhand. They believe in Baikunth, Swarag, Jannat, Heaven, Nirvana etc. depending on their religion. If they don't believe in Sachkhand, how can they reach Sachkhand? The concept of Sachkhand was introduced to the world by Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee.

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Sant ji said, krishan maharaj is also avtar of vahiguroo, he is always in sachkhand. Wherever he steps, that place becomes sachkhand.

Siri Krishna is an Avtar of Vishnu who inturn is a creation of Vaheguru and a product of Maya as per this Gurbani Pankiti:

ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
ਇਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥

Siri Krishna's did some really good works when he took avtar and that have been praised in Gurbani but all his power was the power of Guru Sahib. As for the status of Siri Krishna, he himself is stuck in taking births, how can the world be saved by him:

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਰਗਾਸੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
(Through Brahma the Ved Baani appeared but he himself stays stuck in the attachment of Maya)'

ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਵਰਤੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਤਾਮਸੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
(Mahesh (Shivjee) is said to be knowledgeable but he is full of anger and ego)

ਕਿਸਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ਰੂਧਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਲਗਿ ਤਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥
(Vishnu himself is always engaged in taking births, through whom would the world be saved?)

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਰਤੇ ਜੁਗ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹ ਗੁਬਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
Only those who are coloured in the Gurmukh Gyaan (Guru's Gyaan) get their darkness of attachment removed).
What doubt remains in the light of above Pankitis, that the 3 Supreme gods of Hindus are creation of Vaheguru and don't reach anywhere near Sachkhand.

The thoughts expressed above are based on this Daas' understanding of Gurbani and views of Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

A very befitted reply Singh ji
and the Gurbani pangti quoted by Phen ji leaves no doubt!

Chota veer

In Sri Dasam Granth, Krishan is called a KEET (WORM).

ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

Satguru is the ocean of humility and Satguru has called Himself keet, neech in Gurbani. Even Bhai Gurdaas Jee who was a brahamgyani sikh called himself chor, haramkhor.
BUT, nowhere in Gurbani a specific individual and that too someone as popular as Krishan has been called keet. Only Krishan has been caleed keet.
Krishan made people worship him which is a big sin. He also had kaami relations with gopis who were supposed to be his sisters.

I haven't got time to go throgh each point of everybody's here but go through the kathas of sant Gurbachan Singh khalsa Bhindran wale about Krishan Avtar.
and by going through them you will see these points being proved below:

7. Did the devi/devtae (Krishan Bhagwan etc) attain Sachkhand, if so how, because in Bachitar Natak Guru Ji states they all got lost in maya and that why Guru Ji had to come?

- Sant ji said, krishan maharaj is also avtar of vahiguroo, he is always in sachkhand. Wherever he steps, that place becomes sachkhand.

8. Are the bhatts/bhagats who have their writings in Guru granth Sahib Ji, actually the Devi/Devtae reborn and attained SachKhand through Guru Ji?

- Sant ji said, guru maharaj took gurbani from bhagats who were mukht(liberated). They were mukht before sri guru nanak dev ji came in physical form. Vahiguroo is only one, vahiguroo is the one takes avtar from ages to ages. Some people call him narsingh, raam, krishan, sri guru nanak dev ji etc there all one. To see any distination or have any partiality is work of agyani pursh(ignorant ones) not aim or work of gyanvan bhramgyanis.




Since putting the links here individually will be time consuming, you can go to gurmatveechar.com yourself and click under sant gurbachan singh khlasa and then click on the folder on krishan avtar. Listen to them all please and you will realise and learn a lot.

Also sant Gurbachan Khalsa does a lot of arth of gurbani and now I will prove my other point that the english and panjabi arth found on Internet and books are not good. You will find that a portion of the arths are wrong on the internet and books when compared to the arths in the katha.


Also sant isher singh rara sahib wale says the same thing in his kathas so does Sant Dalel singh virakat. (Please listen to them before you make sure mind up on this issue, they are all on gurmatveechar.com)

Also kulbir singh wrote:

"Since you have invoked that we should ask Brahmgyani, Daas invokes Bonafide Pooran Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee. Bhai Sahib has written in very clear words that without the true Naam no one can reach Sachkhand and without Satguru no one can give Naam. This means that without Satguru no one has ever attained Vaheguru"


Also in the above post it mentions about Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's description on the believes of other religions on liberation or heaven. But a person in any particular religion may have a fixed believe of how heaven and liberation will happen however if she or he starts to fully commit to their religion and starts praying a lot and starts building their kamai they will start to lose their ego, desires and start getting the gift of self realisation. This knowledge will enhance a devotees thinking and reasoning and their minds will start to mould to the believe of what gurbani mentions about liberation(sachkand). But Sikhi is a gift when waheguru himself came as guru avatar to help and destroy the mirage of believes and false acts people had accumalated over time when practising their religion, which had made their progress of self realisation very difficult by acts of cutting their hair, eating meat, false rituals etc.

so the Guru's had made sikhi to correct the rehit of others and challenge the believe system of many so they could aid them to a faster path to sachkhand(liberation). As you got to remember if other religions couldn't meet waheguru then the Guru's would of destroyed all the religions in the world! and why would Guru Teg Bahadar Ji take shaheed to save the whole of hinduisim from being circumcised(Being converted to islam). Guru Ji could of easily have said you have no chance to meet waheguru in this life and could of said don't worry in your next live I will make you sikh so you can go to sachkand. But no, all religions can meet waheguru.

Ok you maybe thinking that why not be a part of another religion if they can all meet waheguru the answer is that it is more harder to get to sachkand and merge with the supreme due to the differences and possible weaknesses in rehit. This life is a golden ticket given by waheguru and is 1 out of 8.4 million to get this life again. So why would you want to be part of another religion than sikhi, which is the fastest route to waheguru as each swas(breath) is important and why waste it!!!


Kulbir Singh wrote:
Gurmat is the first Matt that talks about Sachkhand and other faiths are not even aware that there is a Sachkhand. They believe in Baikunth, Swarag, Jannat, Heaven, Nirvana etc. depending on their religion

Actually the vedas talks about sachkand if you dig deep within the granth. But anybody from any religion can get self realisation they will get the knowledge about these khands as I have answered you above.


Also sant dalel singh maharaj goes in his kathas that Shivji was sitting in sachkand himself as well. Its in 1 of the katha's on gurmatveechar.com I think


Also you said that "Bhai Sahib has written in very clear words that without the true Naam no one can reach Sachkhand and without Satguru no one can give Naam. This means that without Satguru no one has ever attained Vaheguru"


I agree with this 100% percent but like Sant Jagjit Singh said and I wrote in the posts before that satguru was nirgun form from the beginning and came as narsingh, ram, guru nanak dev ji throughout time.



You wrote this:"There is only one Satguru and that is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee"
Can I ask did bhai sahib write this in the exact words and did he only say that guru nanak was the only satguru? Or did you use your own knowledge and the Gurbani interpretation of the internet to say this.
Because I would be surprised as if he did because it goes against all the Brahm giani's I know?


Please listen to the kathas and for 1kaur you wanted me to use gubani and through these katha I know the brahmgiani's will back it up for you with a lot of bani

Also to 1kaur I suggest you learn more about brahmgiani's as your last post showed some concern for the respect of them. Please listen to this just for you and others who don't know much about saints. Real saints in sikhi (right click and save it).

All in all we are all going through a learning curve but I hope the kathas will clear the doubts of others who don't believe me. Unless you are all are self realised (have devine knowledge) then I suggest you learn this.


So all I ask first go through all the kathas by sant gurbachan singh khalsa, then sant dalel singh maharaj and then sant isher singh. Please then make your mind up

You got to remember waheguru is universal and not just for 1 religion only.

Also please read the biography of sant Jagjit singh before you try to prove him wrong by quoting lines of sikhi to the max etc. Understanding gurbani and arth is very difficult and just quoting 1 liners is no way understanding gurbani.
You can read it here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/26191-baba-jagjit-singh-harkowal-wale/page__st__10

Manswisdom jeeo,

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You wrote this:"There is only one Satguru and that is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee"
Can I ask did bhai sahib write this in the exact words and did he only say that guru nanak was the only satguru? Or did you use your own knowledge and the Gurbani interpretation of the internet to say this.
Because I would be surprised as if he did because it goes against all the Brahm giani's I know?

Yes, Bhai Sahib has said it unequivocally that Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee is the Satguru. He has written this in not one place but many places across 40 of his books. I urge you to read his books because everything he has written is backed up by Gurbani.

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Actually the vedas talks about sachkand if you dig deep within the granth. But anybody from any religion can get self realisation they will get the knowledge about these khands as I have answered you above.

I urge you to read Vedas. You will find nothing but a collection of different Mantras there. Yes the appendix to Vedas - the Upanishad - do contain some great thoughts of wisdom but there is no mention of Sachkhand in Upanishads either. The Puraans talk about Shivpuri, Brahmapuri Baikunth and Swaraglok and has no mention of Sachkhand, a realm much above the aforementioned puris. Please quote from Vedas and prove that they talk about Sachkhand.

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Also sant dalel singh maharaj goes in his kathas that Shivji was sitting in sachkand himself as well.

Dear brother, it is impossible that Shivji was ever sitting in Sachkhand. Gurbani says that he is a candidate for Jamm-Faas i.e. noose of the Jammdoot. Just read the 8th pauri of Tvaiprasaad Savaiye:

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥
(Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Indra, in the end will get the noose of Jammdoot).

Please tell me who should we believe Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee or someone else? Guru Sahib clearly says that Shiva will get noose of Jammdoot and you are saying that he was in Sachkhand. How can a person sitting in Sachkhand get noose of Jammdoot?

I humbly request you to backup your claims through Gurbani. Gurbani is eternal truth. Everyone else is below Gurbani.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

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Kulbir Singh
There is only one Satguru and that is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. No other Bhekh can reach Sachkhand because no other Bhekh talks about Sachkhand. Gurmat is the first Matt that talks about Sachkhand and other faiths are not even aware that there is a Sachkhand. They believe in Baikunth, Swarag, Jannat, Heaven, Nirvana etc. depending on their religion. If they don't believe in Sachkhand, how can they reach Sachkhand? The concept of Sachkhand was introduced to the world by Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee.

This is my favourite argument. The other faiths were not even aware Sachkhand exists! How can they attain it? Krishna, Vishnu, Shiv jee, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad etc are all in Gyaan Khand, so how will their followers go to Sachkhand? We have the pangtee ਜੈਸਾ ਸੇਵੈ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੋਇ All these Bhekhs were creations/entities of Vaheguru, whereas Sri Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Jee Maharaaj is Vaheguru themself. The Bhagats whose Bani is included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee were not mukht without The Satguru (i.e. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Jee Maharaaj) and they had to become Gursikhs too. I'm sure the respected Gursikhs on the forum can give more information on this, as well as the book Bhagat Bani da Ithiaas by Gyani Gurditt Singh Jee.

A lot of people seem confused about this, I have even heard parcharaks saying the same on Gurdwara Sahib stages, that all religions are a path to the same place etc etc. I am not a fan of this wishywashy talk, Sikhee is ultimate Dharam and only through Sikhee i.e. Khanda Bata Amrit - Naam can we attain Vaheguru. The short answer to your topic question MansWisdom "Can Other Religions Reach Sachkhand?" is a resounding No

Your using the 1 liner quotes again please listen to the kaths and the arth there. Brahmgiani's are true (read sukhmani sahib) and have devine knowledge. But did bhai sahib say only guru nanak was satguru and the others were not. Like did he say that ram and krishan, narsingh etc are not satguru?

Ok I personally now don't think this debate will end. So all I will say is that if you don't believe in brahm giani's then thats your view. All I can say is to do simran, bani etc and ask guru ji to bless you with darshan and self realisation. Then you will discover the truth as all doubts will clear and the meaning of gurbani will come crystal clear. Waheguru Ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh

MansWisdom Wrote:
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> Your using the 1 liner quotes again please listen
> to the kaths and the arth there. Brahmgiani's are
> true (read sukhmani sahib) and have devine
> knowledge. But did bhai sahib say only guru nanak
> was satguru and the others were not. Like did he
> say that ram and krishan, narsingh etc are not
> satguru?

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨੀਚਹੁ ਉਚ ਥਪੇ ॥

BHai Sahib I would humbly advise that instead of following a human person you should follow Satguru Ji whom is the Embodiment of WaaheGuru. . Humans are full of fault and prone to error. What ever Vasta a Gursikh is at is due to Guru Sahibs grace. Guru Sahib can raise or lower a person according to his wish. SO the vasta of a Gursikh goes up and down, but the vasta of Guru Sahib is always high, the highest. For this reason we should only follow Guru Sahib and Guru Sahib alone. If a Gursikh is at high stage or low stage we should accept this as Gurus will, and never follow or mock anybody depending on the Gursikhs stage.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨੀਚਹੁ ਉਚ ਥਪੇ ॥

This is the problem with Sikhs, we assume that because a person has SANT infront of their name, whatever they say must be true!? even if its against what our Guru is saying.

My questions to you Wisdom will be how do you know so and so is a Sant? Do you have a machine to measure their spirituality? Im not saying that these people arent spiritual, but Ive found True Gurmukhs would never allow Sant/Baba infront of their name, they would shout at someone for calling them a Sant. They hide away from the limelight.

Of course a Sant is going to say everyone can get to Sachkhand, if they didnt, their following would dwindle lol!

The fact of the matter is only with Gurujis Kirpa, Naam dhrir, Gurbani, Naam abhyaas and Rehat can one reach Sach khand and these souls are virle, may I have the good fortune of meeting them........