Keet Krishan DROWNED in world ocean

According to Bhai Sahib Randir Singh in his book 'Gurmat Lekh', below shabad is about Vishnu ( and his incarnations) who came to this world and had the power to kill 10 or so demons.
The line in bold clearly states Guru Sahib saying that how Vishnu Incarnation can cause someone to cross the world ocean when he himself drowned in it.

[www.sridasam.org]

ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥
रागु कलिआन पातिशाही १०॥
RAGA KALYAN OF THE TENTH KING

ਬਿਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨ ਕਿਰਤਮ ਮਾਨੋ ॥
बिन करतार न किरतम मानो ॥
Do not accept anyone else except God as the Creator of the universe;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ਼ੀ ਤਿਹ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ ਜਾਨੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आदि अजोनि अजै अबिनाशी तिह परमेशर जानो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
He, the Unborn, Unconquerable and Immortal, was in the beginning, consider Him as Supreme Ishvara……Pause.

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਆਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਦਸਕੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ ॥
कहा भयो जो आनि जगत मै दसकु असुर हरि घाए ॥
What then, if on coming into the world, one killed about ten demons;

ਅਧਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਸਭਨ ਕਹ ਆਪਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੧॥
अधिक प्रपंच दिखाइ सभन कह आपहि ब्रहमु कहाए ॥१॥
And displayed several phenomena to all and caused others to call Him Brahm (God).1.

ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਜਾਤ ਗਿਨਾਯੋ ॥
भंजन गड़्हन समरथ सदा प्रभ सो किम जात गिनायो ॥
How can He be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Almighty and Eternal,

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅਸਿ ਕੋ ਘਾਇ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੨॥
ता ते सरब काल के असि को घाइ बचाइ न आयो ॥२॥
Who could not save himself from the wound-causing sword of mighty Death.2.

ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥
कैसे तोहि तारि है सुनि जड़ आप डुबयो भव सागर ॥
O fool ! listen, how can he(Vishnu Incarnation) cause you to cross the dreadful ocean of Sansara (world), when he himself is drowned in great ocean?

ਛੁਟਿਹੋ ਕਾਲ ਫਾਸ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਗਹੋ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਜਗਤਾਗਰ ॥੩॥੧॥
छुटिहो काल फास ते तब ही गहो शरनि जगतागर ॥३॥१॥
You can escape the trap of death only when you catch hold of the prop of the world and take refuge in Him.3.

ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥

What a beautiful Pankiti that shows that ones who themselves are drowning cannot save others. Vishnu, Brahma and Mahesh themselves are subject to Kaal; therefore they can't help anyone attain salvation.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ
> ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ
> ਸਾਗਰ ॥
>
> What a beautiful Pankiti that shows that ones who
> themselves are drowning cannot save others.
> Vishnu, Brahma and Mahesh themselves are subject
> to Kaal; therefore they can't help anyone attain
> salvation.
>
> Kulbir Singh


Veer jee,
Braham, shiv and vishnu and subject to Jamm. Lets not become Ram Rai ( who changed the word from musalmaan to bayyemaan) and change the word Jamm to Kaal.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

Quote

Braham, shiv and vishnu and subject to Jamm. Lets not become Ram Rai ( who changed the word from musalmaan to bayyemaan) and change the word Jamm to Kaal.

There are Pankitis in Dasam Granth that also say that these Devtas are subject to Kaal. I did not have this Pankiti from Savaiye in mind when I wrote the above passage. If I find such Pankitis, I will post them.

I don't have an Aurangzeb sitting on my head that I have to change the word to mitigate the effect of a Pankiti. It was not my slightest intention to use Kaal instead of Jamm. I had different pankitis in my head when I wrote the above passage.

Kulbir Singh

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ॥੨੮॥
All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.

[www.sridasam.org]

Bachittar Natak, confirming the use of KAAL in the context of Sri Krishen.

Thanks Veer ms514 jeeo for providing the required Pankitis that show that these Devtas were subject to Kaal (death). This means that their positions are not eternal and once they exhaust their time at these positions, they are subject to Kaal.

Kulbir Singh

Word Jamm and Kaal mean the same thing. Jaam Faas refers to noose of death. See Mahan Kosh.

Veer Kulbir Singh Jeeoo,
I am not doubting your intentions. U are a sweet dear bro of mine. What I meant was that the 3 devtaas are subject to Jamm. They are subject to Kaal as well. But when we use the word kaal, some scholars (with vedanta mind set) argue that even the sargun saroop of Guru Sahib was subject to Kaal.

In the war between Kharag Singh and Krishan, Krishan uses deceit twice. But, thats not it, he uses deceit the third time to kill a warrior named Krata Singh.

[www.sridasam.org]

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥
सवैया ॥
SWAYYA

ਚਾਰ ਮਹੂਰਤ ਜੁੱਧੁ ਭਯੋ ਤਕ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਇਹ ਘਾਤ ਬਿਚਾਰਯੋ ॥ ਮਾਰਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਕਹਯੋ ਸੁ ਸਹੀ ਮੁਰ ਕੈ ਅਰਿ ਪਾਛੇ ਕੀ ਓਰ ਨਿਹਾਰਯੋ ॥
चार महूरत जु्धु भयो तक कै हरि जू इह घात बिचारयो ॥ मारहु नाहि कहयो सु सही मुर कै अरि पाछे की ओर निहारयो ॥
The war continued throughout the day, then Krishna devised a method. He said, "I am not killing you," and saying this, when the enemy looked behind,

ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਤੀਛਨ ਲੈ ਅਸਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰ ਕੀ ਗ੍ਰੀਵ ਕੇ ਊਪਰ ਝਾਰਯੋ ॥ਐਸੀਏ ਭਾਂਤ ਹਨਯੋ ਰਿਪ ਕਉ ਅਪਨੇ ਦਲ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਨਿਵਾਰਯੋ ॥੧੩੬੮॥
ऐसे ही तीछन लै असि स्री हरि श्त्र की ग्रीव के ऊपर झारयो ॥ऐसीए भांत हनयो रिप कउ अपने दल को सभ त्रास निवारयो ॥१३६८॥
He very quickly at that very instant, struck a blow on the neck of the enemy with his sharp sword and in this way, killing the enemy, removed the fear of his army.1368.