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Colour

Posted by Hum Kookar 
Colour
December 08, 2010 12:19PM
Vaheguroojeekaakhalsa
Vaheguroojeekeefateh!

I was asked a question about colour.
Can gursikhs wear colours that are not considerd "khalsa colours"?
(Blue ,Black,Orange,White,Yellow)
And were does it state that them colours are khalsa colours ??

Pul chuk maaf

Vaheguroojeekaakhalsa
Vaheguroojeekeefateh!
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Re: Colour
December 08, 2010 06:12PM
You can wear any colour your spirit desires to wear. See God in every colour and be thankful that our world is not limited to only certain colours and neither is the Lord!!! And be happy!smiling bouncing smiley
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Re: Colour
December 08, 2010 06:51PM
vaheguroo jee

leafy jee has a good point, colors arn't where god exists. our mind shouldn't be so narrow, yet long-sighted. We always do ardaas for Mann Neevaa, Matt Uchee.

Regardless, each army in this world, past or present has had its unique uniform, martial art, strategy and appearance.

Guroo Kee Laadlee Fauj has been blessed with a simple blue chola, navy blue dastaar, a basanti nishaan sahib and white hazooriaa/kamarkassa.

Our martial art is Gatka.

Our inspiration is "Jo Lare Deen Ke Het"

If we wish to identify ourselves as members of this fauj, then the appropriate colors must be worn. We can't question this or suggest more suitable or desired colors.

The night before operation blue star occured, Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale had the avastha to know what was coming. He was seen in a navy blue dastar (as always) but also a blue chola and a kamarkassa. Daas can't find the video link at the moment, but it is on youtube regardless.

Neel Bastar are the most appropriate and suitable bastar. Of course, white and black is acceptable.

Vaheguroo jee
bhul chuk muaaf

gurmukhon, feel free to enlighten the topic furthermore.
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Re: Colour
December 08, 2010 08:31PM
For a Singh green and red are strictly forbidden. It has nothing to do with narrow-mindedness. Orthodox Singhs do not wear these colors out of honor for their history especially the honor of puratan Shaheed Singhs who kept a distinct identity and never adopted the ways and appearance of the Mughals. In addition, numerous rehats say not to wear these colors. This has been a Gurmat tradition neglected by many modern and liberal Sikhs.
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Re: Colour
December 08, 2010 09:30PM
well said, narrow mindedness was a comment by daas for people, who take the color scheme to the next level

in terms of their:
car
wall paint
carpet

and this kind of stuff.....

but for our bastars, neela rang is best =)
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 01:12AM
And I will never understand that even if it is a written rule.
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 03:16AM
Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a Singh green and red are strictly forbidden.
> It has nothing to do with narrow-mindedness.
> Orthodox Singhs do not wear these colors out of
> honor for their history especially the honor of
> puratan Shaheed Singhs who kept a distinct
> identity and never adopted the ways and appearance
> of the Mughals. In addition, numerous rehats say
> not to wear these colors. This has been a Gurmat
> tradition neglected by many modern and liberal
> Sikhs.


Bhai Sahib Sukhdeep Singh Jeo,

Can you please refer to the specific rehatnamas that forbid green and red colours? Thanks!
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 07:04AM
My dear friend,
Waheguru ji created all the colours in this universe; which means he approves of all colours. Does this help you in figuring out which colour you can wear? Kind regards.
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 07:50AM
Quote

In addition, numerous rehats say not to wear these colors. This has been a Gurmat tradition neglected by many modern and liberal Sikhs.

Veer Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

kindly put together few quotes from Rehitnamas that forbid Khalsa to wear Green and Red clothes. It would benefit the Sangat immensely.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 01:49PM
੧ ਸੁਰਮਈ ੨ ਸਵਯੇ ੩. ਪੀਤ ੪ ਹਰਤ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ।ਬਸਤ੍ਰ c ਕੋ ਨ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ
Wear fresh blue, white and yellow clothing. Do no wear Red.
Bhai daya Singh Ji


ਸੂਹਾ ਪਹਿਨ ਲਏ ਨਸਵਾਰ, ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜਮ ਕਰੈ ਖੁਆਰ (10)
Guru Gobind Singh Ji says those that wear red will go to hell
Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji


In regards to not wearing the color green this has been an Gurmat principle observed through oral tradition ( Seena Baseena).

Leafy and Gurpreet in response to your statements.

During Dasmi Paatshahs time society was divided by dress. Similar to our own society. For example, If someone is rich they wear fancy clothes. If someone is poor they wear simple tattered . Where I went to High School the rich white people would wear Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hillfiger and other designer brands. While the poor people would wear cheap brands. The only difference is in India people were divided not by wealth but by social stratification. Muslims wore green, had a beard, and wore a turban. Turban was a symbol of high status and those in governance wore them. Jahangirs administration under Wahabbi ( fanatical branch of Islam) prevented other faiths from wearing a Turban, along with carrying arms and riding horses. However, Sri Hargobind Sahib Ji did not pay attention to these orders and demanded his Gurmukhs to continue to wear Dastar, and instead of giving dasvand of money they should give weapons and horses.

Going back to color and social stratification. One would often wear a color associated with their caste and disposition ( Trigun).The common belief was that people were born into a certain disposition due to their karma and would suffer or gain happiness according to their respective caste. For example, Brahmins wore white meaning they were pure and should be the official heirs of governance.

Khatris wore red the color of sacrifice which meant they were brave warriors who would sacrifice their life for the "faith". Within the Khatri caste exist the Khanna caste who were the most militant also were known as Khadag-dhari’ (Sword wielding) .At a young age many of the boys belonging to Khatri caste practiced their rituals ( ex Choti tradition ) and wore the red dress to familiarize them with their future role in society.

The Vasaiyas wore brown or yellow which symbolized they were the working/trading caste and should be working in the fields, outside etc. The lowest of the low were associated with dark-black blue aka Banwari Blue.T Because according to Hindu Tradition they were good for nothing and had no contribution to make to society their life was destined for pain. They did not wear clothes they were just associated with this dark color. This is the same color that yogis who cast themselves outside of society paint on their bodies.

Guru Sahib was against this concept of color/varna ( caste) and states that in the beginning there was no caste or color so then how did one get inflicted by pain or happiness.

ਜਬ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
ਤਬ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥


Guru Sahib who regarded himself as the low of the lowest took on this Udasi color of Navy blue ( Akali Blue) when going on his sojourns. Guru Sahib did not take on BLue to resemble Krishna but instead as means to portray he was the lowest of the low and belonged to no previous religion/caste ( Hinuds or Muslims) instead he came to establish a third religion which was the true pathway to God. Dasmi Paatshah gave this dark color to Khalsa so they would not resort back to their previous social affiliations and they would remain distinct as a humble- single brotherhood. This uniformal dress appearance destroyed old age prejudices that were extremely popular in those times.

Going back to rehatnamey that forbid red. Some self willed people read these rehatnamey and they think "Wow, that is extreme. Going to hell for wearing red?" They fail to take this rehatnama in its historical context; thus missing the Gurmat principle behind these rehatnamey

Look at the Bhai Nand Lal Jis rehatnama for example: ਸੂਹਾ ਪਹਿਨ ਲਏ ਨਸਵਾਰ, ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜਮ ਕਰੈ ਖੁਆਰ (10)

Guru Sahib has only banned the color red associated with the Khatri caste in this rehatnama. Why is this case? Thats because the other colors, yellow, white and blue are part of the Khalsa tradition which is mentioned in Bhai Daya Singh Jis rehatnama.

੧ ਸੁਰਮਈ ੨ ਸਵਯੇ ੩. ਪੀਤ ੪ ਹਰਤ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ।ਬਸਤ੍ਰ c ਕੋ ਨ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ

Navy blue reminds Khalsa that they should no attachment to any status in society. They should be completely detached from society and not afraid to die for a just cause. While white reminds us we should live like Swans in the midst of maya we should remain unaffected.

If a Singh is wearing Blue but thinks he is high or better then other Gursikhs then in reality he is wearing red and will go to hell. Navy blue reminds us that we have taken birth in the holy city of Anandpur Sahib and our previous caste, religion, social status has no significance.

This does mean that navy blue has no place in modern society? People who think so must think Sri Sahib has no place in society as well. Today people dress themselves according to their minds pleasing instead of dressing to gain Guru sahibs happiness.
ਜੋ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਖਾਦੇ ਪੈਨਦੇ ਸੇ ਮੁਏ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੇ ਕੋੜ੍ਹੇ ॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 306)
Those who eat and dress (means enjoy materials) without serving to Satguru (here serving could means Naam and Bani), they remains in cycle of reincarnation and lives like lepers.

Fair enough if one does not want to wear traditional Navy blue or white they should at least dress in simple Gursikh attire and regard themselves as Guru Sahibs slave; instead of dressing according to their minds thinking or with the intent of showing off and trying to impress others.The biggest problem we have in Sikhi is divisions. We have divided our self by caste, economic status, jathebandi,etc. If we stayed true to blue and saw ourselves as simple servants of the panth instead of competitors in this Manmukhi world who knows where the state of Sikhi would be today. Guru Sahib says as long as we stay distinct he will bless us with Raj, when we wear Banwari Blue it reminds us Khalsa Raj will be coming soon. In addition , it reminds us how Khalsa raj will come.

ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ। ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਉ ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਾ। ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹੇ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ। ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਪਰਤੀਤ।

As Long as Khalsa remains distinct I will give them authority to rule. But when they start adopting the ways ( dress and beliefs) of others I will not have faith in them.

Through obedience of Guru Sahibs Hukums/rehats we will eventually merge our minds in the color of his name.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji has given us Sri Akal Purakhs every notion
Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji breath is the sky his saliva is every ocean
Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji sweet orders put the whole world in motion
So how can we break his orders after drinking his magic potion?
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 04:32PM
Hmmm enlightening, lol i should bleach my red clothes and make them white now :0) i hope it will work lol.
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Re: Colour
December 09, 2010 11:58PM
Quote
sukhdeep singh
Going back to color and social stratification. One would often wear a color associated with their caste and disposition ( Trigun).The common belief was that people were born into a certain disposition due to their karma and would suffer or gain happiness according to their respective caste. For example, Brahmins wore white meaning they were pure and should be the official heirs of governance.

Khatris wore red the color of sacrifice which meant they were brave warriors who would sacrifice their life for the "faith". Within the Khatri caste exist the Khanna caste who were the most militant also were known as Khadag-dhari’ (Sword wielding) .At a young age many of the boys belonging to Khatri caste practiced their rituals ( ex Choti tradition ) and wore the red dress to familiarize them with their future role in society.

The Vasaiyas wore brown or yellow which symbolized they were the working/trading caste and should be working in the fields, outside etc. The lowest of the low were associated with dark-black blue aka Banwari Blue.T Because according to Hindu Tradition they were good for nothing and had no contribution to make to society their life was destined for pain. They did not wear clothes they were just associated with this dark color. This is the same color that yogis who cast themselves outside of society paint on their bodies.



What is the source of your color theory?
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:04AM
Quote
Sukhdeep Singh
Within the Khatri caste exist the Khanna caste who were the most militant also were known as Khadag-dhari’ (Sword wielding) .At a young age many of the boys belonging to Khatri caste practiced their rituals ( ex Choti tradition ) and wore the red dress to familiarize them with their future role in society.


Sukhdeep Singh,

Your theory of Khanna surname is totally flawed. Please source your claims.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:06AM
ਵਰਨ ਰੂਪ ਵਰਤਹਿ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੇ ॥
In all colors and forms, You are pervading.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 06:43AM
ਸਰਬੀ ਰੰਗੀ ਰੂਪੀ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਖਸੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
You are in all colors and forms; he alone is forgiven, upon whom You bestow Your Glance of Grace. ||1||Pause||

ਅੰਡਜ ਜੇਰਜ ਸੇਤਜ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਭਿ ਵਰਨ ਰੂਪ ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਈਆ ॥
Life is born from the egg, from the womb, from sweat and from the earth; God created the beings and creatures of all colors and forms.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:07PM
i agree God is in every colour and red is a beautiful colour,it is the colour of blood, I find it very energizing..i don't understand how a person can go to hell by wearing red? why wouldn't Guru ji give a reason behind this ????? It seems very odd that He wouldn't...
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:37PM
bhenjee, don't worry too much about it. the panth approved sikh rehet maryada doesn't say anything about the colors you wear effecting your soul's status after death. if the panj didn't say anything about it during amrit sanchar, then it's clearly not a big deal. history tells us that baba banda singh bahadur and his fauj wore red, do we really think gurmukhs like that are going to hell?
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:42PM
ਵਰਨ ਰੂਪ ਵਰਤਹਿ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੇ ॥
In all colours and forms, You are pervading.
ਏਕਸੁ ਤੇ ਸਭਿ ਰੂਪ ਹਹਿ ਰੰਗਾ ॥
All forms and colours come from the One Lord.
ਹੁਕਮੇ ਅਨਿਕ ਰੰਗ ਪਰਕਾਰ ॥
By His Order, there are so many colours and forms

BUT!
ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਹੈ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੀ ॥
There are so many colours and flavors of attachment to Maya.
ਕੁਸਮ ਬਾਸ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗੁ ਘਣੋ ਸਭ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਬਲਬੰਚੁ ॥
The many colours and scents of flowers - all worldly deceptions are transitory and false.
ਹਰ ਰੰਗੀ ਤੁਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਪਾਲੀਅਹਿ ਕਿਤੈ ਕਾਮਿ ਨ ਆਈ ॥
He may breed horses of various colours, but these will not be of any use to him.

Bhul Chuk Maaf !
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:43PM
Leafy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i agree God is in every colour and red is a
> beautiful colour,it is the colour of blood, I find
> it very energizing..i don't understand how a
> person can go to hell by wearing red? why wouldn't
> Guru ji give a reason behind this ????? It seems
> very odd that He wouldn't...

Guru Sahib is saying a person who renounces the distinctness of Khalsa and goes back to the ways of their previous caste/culture will not get mukhti. In other words those who renounce the distinctness of Khalsa by wearing Red are veymukhs- people who turn away from the Gurus ways.

MahaPappi

Go to the library and read some books about the origins of caste and social stratification. If you dont have time refer to the following internet links.

[www.friesian.com]
[www.articlealley.com]
[en.wikipedia.org]

* This issue is not up for debate. Importance of Bana has been discussed in its entirety on a previous thread for those that are interested. I quoted Guru Sahibs rehatnamey because 2 veer Jis asked, and thought I should give an explanation before some liberal Sikhs try to criticize the rehatnama about going to hell for wearing red. Either way I have posted the respected rehatnamey it doesnt bother me if a person doesnt like and respect Khalsa traditions. They are more then free to wear whatever their self willed mind dictates them to wear. Again the issue is not up for debate; I dont like discussing Conservative Sikhi with liberal Sikhs. I dont eat from liberal Sikhs because it ruins ones Naam Abhyiaas , I also try to avoid doing Veechar with liberal Sikhs , because it also ruins a persons Naam Abhyiaas.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:44PM
note: i'm not discounting the importance of khalsa colors. as stated above, khalsa is an army, and armies must have uniforms. clearly it's best for a member of the khalsa fauj to wear the correct uniform.

however, the notion that wearing certain colors will send you to "hell" is simply absurd.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 12:48PM
ਵਿਣੁ ਗਾਹਕ ਗੁਣੁ ਵੇਚੀਐ ਤਉ ਗੁਣੁ ਸਹਘੋ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਗੁਣ ਕਾ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਉ ਗੁਣੁ ਲਾਖ ਵਿਕਾਇ ॥
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 01:50PM
For those interested in historical evidence of blue bana

refer to the following link which is well documented

[www.tapoban.org]



Muslim blue is sky blue ( light blue), Khalsa Blue is amrit vela blue ( dark blue)
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 03:01PM
You should stop reading the words of "liberal Sikhs" as well. They can be devastating.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 03:36PM
Quote
Sukhdeep
MahaPappi

Go to the library and read some books about the origins of caste and social stratification. If you dont have time refer to the following internet links.

[www.friesian.com]
[www.articlealley.com]
[en.wikipedia.org]



Your links doesn't prove a thing you have written. As you are more learned veer and you have read all the books in the libraries, why don't you refer me a book and a page you got the information from?

Waiting for a good reference source from Veer Sukhdeep Singh.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 04:02PM
Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should stop reading the words of "liberal
> Sikhs" as well. They can be devastating.


Yeah I know that why I left Sikh Sangat, lol
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 04:17PM
Sukhdeep Singh Veer Jee is trying really hard to show everyone that Gursikhs cannot wear red or green.

This is a valid rehat and is given as hukam in Amrit Sanchaars to this day.

What is the big deal? If one is wearing bana then there is blue, white, yellow, and black if one is protesting against the British. If for whatever reason one does not wear bana all the time, then simply avoid wearing red or green. There are plenty of other colours and shades to choose from. With something like a jacket or shoes that have a red or green stripe or something like that, then that's not really a big issue.

Baba Banda Singh Jee Bahadur and his army's wearing of red was one of the reasons for the split with Tatt Khalsa.

Those who are quoting Gurbani pangtees in their support should think very carefully as to what they are tying to infer. There's a lot of stuff the SGPC Rehat doesn't mention but we have no problem following that, then as soon as something we don't like pops up, it's "Oh, the panth approved rehat maryada doesn't mention that". With the logic some Gursikhs are using in this thread, we could say if Vaheguru Jee created all animals why don't we just eat all of them?
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 04:18PM
Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mehtab Singh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You should stop reading the words of "liberal
> > Sikhs" as well. They can be devastating.
>
>
> Yeah I know that why I left Sikh Sangat, lol


Yes, and thanks! LOL! grinning smiley
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 04:21PM
A History of Civilization in Ancient India
R. C. Dutt


Stratification and Power
Structures of Class, Status and Command

JOHN SCOTT
pg 1


Maha Pappi consider this my last response to your post on this thread.
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 05:04PM
Veer Sukhdeep Singh,

I don't have any personal issues with you, I am not here to prove you wrong. I am just concerned about the wrong information you are providing on this thread. I would humbly accept my mistake If proved otherwise. Forunately, the name of the books you provided are very much available on Google books. You can choose to ignore my replies but the fact remains that there is no good proof of the things you wrote on this thread, the links you provided were flawed .

Now the page number of the book you mentioned doesn't proove anything on Khanna caste or color theory you had. I will still give you a benefit of doubt and try to dig further in the books you mentioned as you fail to provide me the relevant chapter/page number. Here are the links of the ebooks.

Stratification and Power
Structures of Class, Status and Command
JOHN SCOTT
pg 1

[books.google.com]

A History of Civilization in Ancient India
R. C. Dutt


[books.google.com]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
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Re: Colour
December 10, 2010 05:40PM
ਸੂਹਾ ਪਹਿਨ ਲਏ ਨਸਵਾਰ, ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜਮ ਕਰੈ ਖੁਆਰ (10)
(Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee has stated that one who wears Sooha (Red) and consumes Nasvaar (tobacco) would get hurt by the Jamm.)

The above quote from Bhai Nandlal jee's Rehitnama is pretty strong. Sooha is a Chanchal colour and does not befit a Gursikh. The thread on tapoban.org that Sukhdeep Singh jee quoted and is reproduced below has pretty good evidences from History on wearing the Blue colour:

[www.tapoban.org]

A very good reference is from the Bhatt Vahees:

...ਸਭ ਕੋ ਨੀਲੰਬਰ ਪਹਿਨਾਇਆ, ਵਹੀ ਵੇਸ ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ।
(Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee made everyone (who took Amrit in the first Amrit Sinchaar) to wear Blue clothes and himself too wore the same attire)


ਯੋਂ ਉਪਜੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਭੁਜੰਗੀਏ ਨੀਲੰਬਰ ਧਾਰਾ । ( Bhai Gurdas Singh jee (second))
(The Singh Bhujangi who got created all adopted Blue clothes)

Some Gursikhs here have quoted Gurbani Pankitis that say that all colours are of Vaheguru, He created all colours and He is in all colours; therefore, it must be okay to wear these colours. If we use this line of argument, one could argue that Vaheguru created tobacco and poppy seeds; therefore it is okay to consume these drugs. The conclusion is that use of such Gurbani Pankitis to make the point that wearing Red and Green is okay, is not right.

In Sikhi there is no compulsion. No one is going to force anyone to wear a certain colour but by the same token, no one should try to make certain colours acceptable in Sikhi. The sight of Punj Pyare wearing Red Dastaars and Cholay would be horrible.

Kulbir Singh
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