..

..

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!!

The site's concept is good, noble, and required. I hope the admin keep their focus on the niche while supporting other Sikhi sites in their respective roles. What I mean is that this site should not attempt to contain everything Sikhi-related - Keertan, Panthic News, Political discussions etc. This should be a site where a user can expect to find answers to questions/issues as per Gurmat Bibek - Gurbani. A test for a Gurmat Bibek answer would be that it:
a) is supported by at least one reference from Gurbani and/or Gursikh Rehat Maryada
b) does not contradict any other 'tuk' from Gurbani, AND FOREMOST
c) supports the primary Gurmat Bibek Karam of Naam Jaap

I wish this to be a scholarly site that allows respectable, Panthic, Gurmat debate. It will be a lot of hard work.

Chardi kalaa!

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fateh,

All we can say is very good effort and stay in chardikala !

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fateh,

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo jee kee Fatheh!

The prospect of written santhiya of Nitnem banis and other commonly read banis is very exciting and would be such an invaluable tool. I'm really looking forward to it.

Everything else sounds very promising as well.

Waiting in anticipation for the site to grow and become populated with santhiya and other forms of knowledge.

Japnaam Singh

Vaaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

With the Sri Japji Sahib Santhiya there should be audio files along side each Tuk so we can hear how to pronounce as we go along.


Vaaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

Wow, what great initiative! I can't wait to see this site progress and reveal what online sangat has waited for and needed in so many years. I pray Guru Sahib blesses this site and its sevadars with the ability to suceed and inspire online sangat. I too can't wait for the online santhiya to gain a deeper understanding of the hidden gems within GurBani.

I second that, Chardikala!!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!

This forum seems very promising!

good to see it up

Bhai Harpreet SIngh Ji I dont know much about Gurmat Bibek, but I have always thought Gurmat Bibek consists of all part of a Gursikh life. Meaning Gurmat Bibek teaches how a Gursikh should think, act upon Gurus teachings in ones worldly life, and contemplating about ways in uplifting the Guru-Panth.

Vaheguru jee kaa khalsa vaheguru jee kee fateh

It would be great if everyone could try to site all of their information. It makes it easier to follow up on the information and allow learning for all naam jagyasoos.

just daas's two cents in japjee sahib
there is no shasha
in gurbani there is no shasha
instead of isheer its iseer instead of shabad its sabad thats how daas has been taught by sampardai singhs...

gsingh jeeo,

There are many schools of thought within our Panth, as far as Gurbani Uchaaran is concerned. Some say bindiyaan, some don't. Some say laghu maatra (aunkad and sihaari) at end of all words, some say laghu maatra at end of only haaha and others don't say laghu maatra at end of nouns, unless it is part of the root word i.e. mool ang of the word. All have good reasons behind why they do what they do. We as Gursikhs must respect each other's view point, while maintaining or doing what seems correct to us.

Daas will explain the reasons behind the uchaaran of shasha, zazza, khakha (Farsi wala khakha), etc. in another thread.

Kulbir Singh

Vaaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

No Doubt this is an excellent initiative/effort.

Only thing we need to make sure is that

-- We are open to discussions rather than thinking that only what I say is "RIGHT". We see that there are many forums around but they all end up with controversies. We should also carry forward this media discussions with the power of GURMAT/GURBANI rather than a background feel of any Samparda. We should keep the discussions as per Gurbani or Panth Maha Pursh's/scholars. I have seen that many such forums are divided due to these HARD LINES. Looks we are now divided enough and should try to unite back to/for PATH CHARDI KALA. I have a strong feeling that if we try agree to common Gurmat Marayada - we would be ONE again in no time.


Vaaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,
Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

hanjee teek ya kulbir singh but these letters shasha zaza wernt even around during guru jee's time so there isnt really a reason we should be using them.. but i look forward to the thread

Gagan Singh

Gagan Singh jeeo,

You are correct that separate alphabets for the sounds of Shasha and Zazza were not around at the time Gurbani was written but this does not mean that these sounds too were not around. Farsi contains both of these sounds and Sanskrit contains the sound of Shasha. Both of these languages have been around for long time.

Many alphabets in Gurmukhi have more than one sound and the alphabet that we today call Sassa, broadly speaking, has two sounds - Sassa and Shasha. The greatest proof of this is that in Bawan Akhri, Guru Sahib has clearly used one alphabet ਸ for the sounds of Shasha and Sassa. In Sanskrit the sounds of Sassa and Shasha are present and Guru Sahib used one alphabet ਸ for both sounds.

In English we see that the alphabet "C" sometimes has the sound similar to "S" and sometimes similar to "K". Same way some alphabets in Punjabi change their sound as they appear in the beginning of the word, in the middle and in the end.

The problem is that we should not read Gurmukhi through the lenses of modern Punjabi. Today we have created many more alphabets in Punjabi because there are more sounds than the original 35 letters but in olden days the same 35 letters were used for all sounds. If we try to read Gurbani by learning Punjabi, we would read it wrong. Punjabi today has up to 41 alphabets and as many or more sounds but Gurmukhi has 35 alphabets and more sounds. So many times these alphabets have multiple sounds.

Think about it. Many shabads have been created by Guru Sahib while talking to Pandits and Muslim Faqirs. Do you think while talking to Pandits, Guru Sahib was not saying "Shanti" or "Shabad"? Do you think Guru Sahib would be saying 'Sabad" and "Saanti"? Same way while talking to Muslim Kazis and Mullahs, Guru Sahib spoke Arabic and Farsi. There are pure Farsi shabads in Gurbani. Guru Sahib was adept in Sanskrit, Farsi and Arabic languages. How could Guru Sahib pronounce wrongly the Farsi and Sanskrit words?

Rest Bhai, Guru Sahib knows.

Kulbir Singh

hanjee makes sense but iv been taught to speak as its written

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!

Thank you for sharing this vital information that will help in understanding the Santhiya section of this website. Maybe this discussion could be moved to a new thread and can continue to serve as Santhiya discussion.

Vaheguru Vaheguru!

HS.

Veerjee Kulbir Singh,

Your explanation for why we should pronounce as "Shanti" and "Shabad" makes a lot of sense.

However... what about situations where Gurbani could have easily been written to reflect a certain pronunciation but was not?

A lot of times it might make sense to insert the tippee sound when it is not actually present (even though it was available to be used at the time).

Like for example, at the end of Anand Sahib... "Anand Sunho Vudbhaageeho..." - there is actually no tippee in Anand and yet Gursikhs still pronounce it as Anand.

Quote

However... what about situations where Gurbani could have easily been written to reflect a certain pronunciation but was not?

A lot of times it might make sense to insert the tippee sound when it is not actually present (even though it was available to be used at the time).

Like for example, at the end of Anand Sahib... "Anand Sunho Vudbhaageeho..." - there is actually no tippee in Anand and yet Gursikhs still pronounce it as Anand.

The reasons why Guru Sahib chose to leave out the tipee sound or bindi sounds are known only to Guru Sahib. As per Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, after Siri Dasmesh jee completed compiling the new (current Bir) Bir of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, Bhai Mani Singh jee (the scribe) asked, why Siri GUru jee had left out placing bindis (nasal sounds) at so many places whereas the original Bir written by Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee had more bindis. At this Siri Guru jee responded that this has happened as per the will of Vaheguru but knowledgeable Gursikhs will naturally pronounce the nasal sounds where required.

The third salok of Siri Sukhmani Sahib goes as follows:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਪੇਖੇ ਸਰਬ ਢਢੋਲਿ ॥ ਪੂਜਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਅਮੋਲ ॥੧॥

Notice that there is no tippee on first alphabet of ਢਢੋਲਿ but still while pronouncing it we should place tippee there i.e. make nasal sound. This has been instructed by Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale in his book Gurbani Paath Darshan.

Kulbir Singh

hi........ all its great forum i have ever seen.

sat shiri akal
i am also excited to learn paath.but at present i am trying to listen audios.so,eagerly waiting for your audio edition.

Thank you for this: [gurmatbibek.com]

It was very much needed! May Vaheguru ji continue to bless sevadaars with more seva to inspire!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.
2010 November was the subhaag bharaih mahina when I found a long lost part of my family that have been staunchly Akhand Kirtani Jatha followers and very active in the jatha for past 40 years or so and thanks to this I have connected to a vibrant Gurmat Bibek in practice and now in May 2011 I found out www.gurmatbibek.com - it looks to me that Guru Ji is lending me a guiding hand...somehow..somewhere there is a divine purpose in all this.
I look forward to learning - unlearning and re-learning a lot from the evolved souls contributing here and also contribute what Guru Ji has taught me so far. Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh.

Jarnail Singh Arshi ji I am few months behind you in membership here and eternity behind otherwise. Great to see you here at least I feel I am not in a wrong place.

Is the member Kulbir Singh ji actually Kulbir S. Thind, MD of Gurbanifiles.org. I will feel blessed many times over if such was further the case.

Sat Sri Akal to all

Welcome to the site, Ambarsaria jee.

No, this Kulbir Singh is not Sardar Kulbir S. Thind. I am a nimaana Sikh from Toronto.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the site, Ambarsaria jee.
>
> No, this Kulbir Singh is not Sardar Kulbir S.
> Thind. I am a nimaana Sikh from Toronto.
>
> Kulbir Singh
Kulbir Singh ji thanks for the welcome.

I take offense to you calling yourself Nimaana. No Guru's Sikh is Nimaana as we have been given our fair share of Maan by our Guru ji and humility is one thing but rejecting Guru's gift is not acceptable. This is the passive mindset that creates lot of sheep in Sikhism and is not going to correct present or create a bright future for next generation. Let Sikhs be proud, "Chardi Kala". I am saying all this in love and way I want to have people an uplifting view of our heritage.

You have a great site and I will have further questions in the future. One that comes to mind right away is,

....... I occasionally translate or write about shabads for discourse in English as part of self learning and hobby. I was wondering if it is OK to post such or there are any limitations or rules of format. Most of the time I read Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Darpan and Manmohan Singh ji's Teeka while checking word usage with Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa. Usually I accept Prof. Sahib Singh ji followed by Manmohan Singh ji and then Sant Singh Khalsa ji and in that order.

Sat Sri Akal.