Achkann

Is wearing achkann Gurmat?

Yes!

Absolutely, wearing Achkan is Gurmat. The pictures of Gurmukhs posted by Amritvela jee are a proof of this.

Kulbir Singh

what's "achkan"?

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what's "achkan"?

An "Achkan" is what Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji is seen wearing over bana with gatra ontop.

so it's a coat? so was the question about this specific article of clothing, or is any jacket ok? i hear it gets pretty cold in canada and the UK...

there's a bazurg gurmukh in california who wears a high-tech fleece hiking jacket and running shoes with his bana... looks pretty darn cool.

An achkan is as much a coat as a pjama is a pent.

it looks like bhai sahib had round specs.

my specs are square. are square specs gurmat? or should i get a new style? is there a rehet maryada somewhere we can consult?

please clear my doubts...

but coats are ok too, right?



not really curious, just making a point. we worry way too much about the small things.

i bet if we spend as much time on simran and paath as we do on worrying about what to wear, everything will work out fine in the end.

I see no harm in wearing an Achan , Coat , or sweater on a cold day. I also see Veer Damandeep Singh Jis question as a valid and important question for those of us who try to keep BaNa at all times. Sikhi is a religions of rules ( Hukums) . Guru Sahib has told us what to wear and what not to wear. For example, Guru Sahib tells us not to wear red, green, hats, yogi necklaces, Bahamn loincloth, etc Instead Guru Sahib tells us to wear blue, white, yellow, keep 5 kakkars, etc. If one is to consider themselves to be a bridesmaid of Guru Sahib they will dress in a fashion which pleases Guru Sahib. For a Gurmukh BLue/White BaNa is their wedding dress that they strive to wear everyday.

Guru Sahib has stated


ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ। ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਉ ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਾ। ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹੇ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ। ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਪਰਤੀਤ।
WHEN KHALSA REMAINS DISTINCT THEN I WILL GIVE THEM ALL MY POWER (RAJ) BUT WHEN THEY FOLLOW THE WAYS OF OTHERS I WILL not PLACE ANY FAITH IN THEM.

Guru Sahib has made it clear on what a Gursikh should wear, but there are some instances in which Guru Sahib has not given a definite answer on what to near- things like sweaters , achans have not been discussed. I think one can wear these items as long as they keep distinct.

God forbid the Khalsa Fauj changes their dress code and we start to have a Khalsa generation dressed in Polo Jeans and Tommy Hilfiger Sweat-shirts along with Ray Band glasses. This will be the doom of the Khalsa panth.

Lovely thoughts Sukhdeep Singh Ji!

Sukhdeep Singh Veer Ji has given some special statements in his latest post. I agree with the spirit of the post. We must learn to live in Gurmat discipline. But I take the risk of disagreeing with some points. Just to think cool. Please do not mind.

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Sikhi is a religion of rules ( Hukums) .

Neither Sikhi is a religion, nor it is religion of rules. Religion is a term invented and adopted by majority of the world population. Guru Sahib wanted us to be a sikh, He did not say follow Sikh Religion. Please note the difference. I leave this point here.

Regarding religion of rules. Who said it? Does Rehat means rules? Every religion has its rules, what is special in saying Sikhi like that.

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Guru Sahib has told us what to wear and what not to wear.

I feel Guru Sahib is least bothered about the way we dress, we eat and so on. It is the choice of the Sikh that he or she chooses or not chooses a particular Gursikh Bana.

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Khalsa generation dressed in Polo Jeans and Tommy Hilfiger Sweat-shirts along with Ray Band glasses. This will be the doom of the Khalsa panth.

I do not dress like that. But again I disagree. It should not be a doom. That will be a new look of Khalsa, provided the Khalsa wears it.

Sorry Veer Ji.

Veer Ji to me the word rule is equivalent to order ( Hukum) thats why I say Sikhi is a religion of rules. For example; Guru Sahib has given us the rule to not cut kesh and has given us an additional rule to take care of Kesh. The rules Guru Sahib gives us are so beautiful

I understand your sentiments when you state Sikhi is not a religion . This is somewhat true when we apply Religion to the common meaning of religion, but on the same hand Sikhi is a Dharma with customs and practices ex Amrit Sanchar, Anand Karaj etc. One who undergoes these customs of Amrit Sanchar and Anand Karaj must commit themselves to certain rules if they cannot commit to these rules then generally people cannot take part in these customs.

In regards to dress I strongly believe that it please Guru Sahib to wear BaNa. Guru Sahib says that those that seek my Darshan should never come without Kesh and and Shaster. It would seem strange to wear a Sri Sahib with a 3 piece suit? BaNa is the dress of a warrior king whom is independent . Sri Guru Sahib says my Sikhs are

Zair Amir Butan Fakir
On the outside they look like Kings, but on the inside they are Saints.


In the old days only Kingly Muslims were allowed to wear Chola, wear dastar, bear arms, and ride horses. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib afforded this right to us. Before many people did not have any dignity . Muslims would spit on Kafirs ( non- Muslims) . Sri Dasmesh Pita Ji said boldly " I will make Kings in to these poor people". When we wear BaNa we are making GUru Sahibs words come true- we are honoring his words- we are pleasing our Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib said he would continue to give us blessings as long as we stay distinct . Nevermind the pursuits of Maya; Guru Sahib said he would promise us a divine kingdom on earth if we keep distinct in our rehni behni.

ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ। ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਉ ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਾ। ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹੇ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ। ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਪਰਤੀਤ।

We were born in to the house of King of Kings Sri Guru Nanak Sahib Ji it does not seem right for us to dress like Manmukhs?

Ha Ha, I agree with you Sukhdeep Singh Ji. You are right. We have to obey the orders.

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I do not dress like that. But again I disagree. It should not be a doom. That will be a new look of Khalsa, provided the Khalsa wears it.

Veer MB Singh jeeo, the problem is that Khalsa (as Panth) will never wear it. Anything that Khalsa does is Tat-Gurmat and wearing Gurmukhi Baana is part of Tat-Gurmat. By wearing Patloon-Shirt Khalsa would have to compromise with modesty and as such Khalsa will never adopt it.

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I feel Guru Sahib is least bothered about the way we dress, we eat and so on. It is the choice of the Sikh that he or she chooses or not chooses a particular Gursikh Bana.

Veer jeeo, Guru Sahib surely cares about what we wear. as per the following Pankiti:

ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਪੈਨਣੁ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਪੈਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Wearing such clothes that cause our mind to become evil (Bikaari) are not allowed. For this reason, Khalsaai Baana is recommended and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has emphasized on this in his book Jyot Vigaas.

Kulbir Singh

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We were born in to the house of King of Kings Sri Guru Nanak Sahib Ji it does not seem right for us to dress like Manmukhs?

i can appreciate this sentiment, but at the same time, there are plenty of manmukhs who dress like khalsa. seems to me they're far more damaging to the panth.

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God forbid the Khalsa Fauj changes their dress code and we start to have a Khalsa generation dressed in Polo Jeans and Tommy Hilfiger Sweat-shirts along with Ray Band glasses. This will be the doom of the Khalsa panth.

is guru sahib's khalsa really so weak it can be "doomed" by a change of clothing? no way.

look at authentic drawings of how nihangs dressed in the 1700s. conical dumallay, short cholas barely to the waist, and gigantic kachhera ballooning out from their hips. many didn't even wear chola, but just went bare chested with kachhera and lohi if it was cold. images of bibia from that time show a tiny keskee covered with a long chunni, a skirt of some sort (!) and lots of jewlry (nose piercing, etc). should we all go back to that dress?

all things evolve with time. guru sahib's kakkars have not changed. guru sahib's bani has not changed. guru sahib's sikhi has not changed. it cannot change. no matter how we alter fashions over the years.

so many questions on this board of late are about how we appear to the world. it seems to me that gurmat bibek has far more to do with how we behave inside, than with what kind of coat we're wearing.

sorry if i'm being too harsh, it's just my way of speaking.

sorry i can't edit my post above to add photos.

here:






sorry, i know it's "puratan", but i'm not dressing like that. a modern punjabi suit is far more appropriate and modest. heck, a pair of jeans and a sweater is more appropriate and modest than this bibi's dress...

MB Singh Wrote:
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> Ha Ha, I agree with you Sukhdeep Singh Ji. You are
> right. We have to obey the orders.


Veer Ji I mean no disrespect whenever I disagree with you. You are a senior Singh and you are much wiser and better Sikh then I am. I only disagreed because I have strong beliefs that Gurus Dress is greatly appealing to Guru Sahib and important for the image of Khalsa panth.

Hopefully one day we can bring back the glory of BaNa back into the panth. In the old days when someone saw a Singh dressed in blue they would get great comfort inside the same way a victim of crime feels when they see a police, the same feeling a highly injured person gets when they see an ambulance it would bring great comfort to see a praupakaree Singh who would stand out in a crowd of thousands as prophesied by Guru Sahib. May Guru Sahib give all of us the himmat to live up to his image.

1 Kaur Bhein Ji, The pictures you have posted should not be considered as depicting the actual dress or size or color or design of the Singhs or Singhnis. It is to give us the main idea mainly. This is mostly imagination of the artists. I do not know much about these old paintings, but mostly these are very disproporinate, funny and simple. There is very poor sense of depth or third dimension in these old paintings. Women had to be differentiated from men, by focusing on the body or dress. Just note that body of the child is very disproportionate as compared to the mother. It seems like a toy. So, plesae do not give much importance on the details of such paintings.

Kulbir Singh Veer Ji, You are very much right about the importance of Gursikh Rehat. Poem "The Blessing" of Bhein Ji has also recently said that. I agree with you cent percent. Certainly Khalsa does not wear that. But there must be a side note with this writing.There could be a case that an Amritdhari will have to wear these modern clothings under job or other compulsions. I am inconvenient to say these are very convenient in some cases. (No need to iron or wash, heavy fabric which can protect from small scrathes on the body, less prone to accidents related with loose garments.) Certainly we should avoid SHUKINI. We are very uncomfortable with this dress in Sangat. Prof Puran Singh Says modern dresses as KOT PATLOON DEE KAID i.e. Imprisonment in Coat and Patloon.

ਜਿਤੁ ਪੈਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ
I will say that Gursikhi Bana is still important, even if the body or mind is not uneasy, with a particular modern dress. Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan Ji. We keep the Bana always on.

Please read the Second para second line as ,

Certainly Khalsa does not wear that odd modern dress mentioned by Sukhdeep Singh Ji.

Bhain jee 1Kaur jeeo,

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is guru sahib's khalsa really so weak it can be "doomed" by a change of clothing? no way.

Is Khalsa so weak that it would exchange its Gurmukhi Baana for Pant-Kameez?

Yes, if Khalsa does reach such a stage that it changes its attire for some worldly reason, then its doomed, without doubt. If Punj Pyare start wearing Pant-Kameez while administering Amrit, then definitely Khalsa is doomed because Khalsa would have then compromised its Rehit for some worldly reason.

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look at authentic drawings of how nihangs dressed in the 1700s. conical dumallay, short cholas barely to the waist, and gigantic kachhera ballooning out from their hips. many didn't even wear chola, but just went bare chested with kachhera and lohi if it was cold. images of bibia from that time show a tiny keskee covered with a long chunni, a skirt of some sort (!) and lots of jewlry (nose piercing, etc). should we all go back to that dress?

As Bhai MB Singh jee pointed out, these images are paintings and that too from such an era when painting art was not developed enough to express actuality with full accuracy. What we should deduce from these paintings is that Sikh women used to wear a Keski and that Singhs who were living in jungles were scarce of clothing. Also, these images may be of one or few individuals and do not reflect the overall picture of Khalsa. If a painter was to walk into a Gurdwara today and paint an image of a modern Gurdwara going Singh wearing pant-kameez, should the future generations believe that pant-kameez is an acceptable attire for going to Gurdwara Sahib.

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so many questions on this board of late are about how we appear to the world. it seems to me that gurmat bibek has far more to do with how we behave inside, than with what kind of coat we're wearing.

Its true that Gurmat Bibek is how we behave inside but it is also how we behave outside and how we appear to the world. How can a Gurmukh who is a Sant from inside, be a manmukh from outside? A Gurmukh is a Sant inwardly and outwardly. Wearing acceptable Baana is also part of Gurmat Bibek and should not be belittled or considered insignificant.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Shaitani Purush Fir Pargat Hoya. A pity that the pictures are missing though:

[www.amritworld.com]

[www.amritworld.com]

[www.amritworld.com]

[www.amritworld.com]

[www.amritworld.com]

[www.amritworld.com]

Just for fun...kinda.... Also to make mention, many of the Gurmukh Mahapursh/Sants/Gursikhs were also recruits in the army. I don't think they were wearing cholae while in service.

Note: I have no problem with anyone wearing Banaa - I tend to comply with it myself as it is the most comfortable and conservative dress compared to Western clothing. It does honor to Guru Sahib's image and appears to have BECOME a distinct dress of the Sikhs. But sorry, there are many Gursikhs in the world that do not wear Banaa and do wear Western clothing. I find it very interesting that we are speaking of Banaa and Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji in this post about Banaa - he is not exactly decked out like a Nihung Singh. Traditional dress of the Puratan Sikhs fighting for survival against the Mughals was a blanket/shawl (and not much else except the Panj Kakkars). So if you wanted to go completely traditional, then these coats/vests/sweaters/etc. of firangi design are not Banaa either.

Reply to ms514, Bhai Sahib is decked out with shaster.

On another note, i shocked that this thread has got so long, what was a simply question has turned messy. When there's quality posts from others users there seems to be less thoughts and feelings posted there and more on little issues. Kirpa kareh Naam Valeh Post Karoh.

Bhul Chuk Maafi

I think we have to be very careful with "our holier than thou" attitude before labeling others who do not fit to our image of a "banna" as less than Sikhs. No doubt, simple Gurmukhi clothing is the best, but Sikhi is not based on outward Banna alone.

Is there a Panthic accepted version of what exactly is Banna? Nihangs Singhs don't believe that kurta pajama is Banna, they say it is borrowed from the Muslims, yet the same can be said about a cholla. Muslims were wearing chollas long before Sikhs. Nihang despise churridaar pajamees, yet there is proof and documentation that our Guru Sahibans wore them.

Chollas in the 18th and 19th century were above the knees, moderns chollas are all below the knee. Many Jatha Singhs think it is improper to wear a short kurta above the knee, yet many kurtas back 50-80 years ago were above the knee.

Modern Nihang Singhs often scoff and redicule anyone that does not wear a banna resembling theirs.
If a Singhs is wearing a churridaar pajamee, they will call him a kacha-pilla, if a Singh does not wear a kammar-kassa, he is called "dhilla."
Modern Taksali Singhs have the same issue with a churridaar pajamees or Dumallas, and many modern Jatha Singhs redicule those who do not wear a white hazooria 24/7.

Yet, there are thousands of wonderful RahitVaan Gurmukhs who do conform to our above requirements, yet they are still Guru kay Piyaaray.
Calling them manmukhs, or kachay-pillay or dhillay is just our own self insecurity.

Sri Maan Akali Kaur Singh Ji is in the above picture is wearing a coat like Achkann and a pant like pajama, no hazooria or kammarkassa. Does that make him a manmukh or a "British sellout" ?

This Gurmukh had the entire contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Kaanth, how many modern Nihangs in Bhudha Dal who wear Banna 24/7 can claim that? Akali Jee did immense Naam Abhyaas and Panthic sewa, which Bhai Randhir Singh Ji attests to in his books. Many modern Nihangs redicule the way Akali Ji and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji dressed. Would wearing a traditional Nihang Banna made Akali Ji ir Bhai Sahib a better Sikh?

Is Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Ji dressed as a manmukh in the pictures below?





Jathedar Bhai Ram Singh Ji at Sri Akal Takht Sahib wearing a simple shirt and pant.


Or how about Baba Puran Singh Ji from UK who was a close associate of Giani Amolak Singh Ji of UK.
In the image below, he is wearing a two piece suit, what does that make him?



Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha in clothing similar to Akali Kaur Singh Ji's.


Giani Ditt Singh Ji, one of the key founders of the Singh Sabha Movement wearing British inspired clothing. Giani Ji was also a professor at the Oriental College in Lahore.


The 13 Shaheeds of 1978, at least six of them did not wear banna 24/7. Does that make then any lesser Sikhs?

^^^^^


thank you veerjee for saying what i was unable to say.

Bana is an amazing rehit but I do feel in today's times only a charrdikala khalsa shud wear bana as it carries lot of responsibility( once we have a dharmi raj and a dharmi society, all sikhs shud wear bana). I used to wear bana when I used to keep strong rehit. But when my rehit went down,(thanks to my own karams) I removed the bana as welI as I dint have the inner power to carry it.
Wearing Bana ( and keeping strong rehit alongside) makes a person feel like a SOUL BRIDE. One remains NIARAA from the outside world.

Bhai Naranjan Singh jeeo,

Basically the crux of your post is that if the above pictured Gurmukhs are wearing Pant-Kameez, then it must be Gurmat to wear it for all Gurmukhs. If we go by this argument, then one can post a number of pictures of Gursikhs who were not Sarblohi and Bibeki. From this, can we derive that Sarbloh and Bibek is not a mandatory Rehit of Guru Sahib? Many Gursikhs pictured above also used to eat meat. We believe that consuming meat is Manmatt. Does that mean that we are disrespecting the above pictured individuals? This line of argument can't get us anywhere. Gurmat principle can't get shadowed just because a number of Gursikhs have not been following it.

Gurmat principles cannot be rejected just because certain Gursikhs did not used to follow them. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has rejected Angrezi attire - Patloon (pant) - in his writings but at the same time, we all know that many prominent Gursikhs used to wear army uniform in military. This was tolerated because it was their majboori to wear this dress at work but no one went around saying that since some Chardi Kala Singhs had to wear these clothes while working, so these type of clothes are acceptable in Gurmat for Gursikhs to wear.

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Is there a Panthic accepted version of what exactly is Banna? Nihangs Singhs don't believe that kurta pajama is Banna, they say it is borrowed from the Muslims, yet the same can be said about a cholla. Muslims were wearing chollas long before Sikhs. Nihang despise churridaar pajamees, yet there is proof and documentation that our Guru Sahibans wore them.

This Daas writes what he has learned from the books of Gurmukhs like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and from sangat of Gurmukhs he has been associating with. NIhungs or Taksalis or some modern AKJers can say whatever they like and it makes no difference to us. This Daas expresses what he has learned and believes (and preaches) that along with the Nihung Baana other Baana like what Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Bhai Vir Singh jee used to wear is part of the Khalsa attire.

Daas has written many times that it is okay if Gursikhs have to wear Western clothes to work or at other places where we they are helpless but Daas does not believe that since the majority of Gursikhs have started wearing the modesty-lacking Western clothing, it should not be considered part of Gurmat.

If Gursikhs are not going to preach and promote Gurmukhi Baana, then who is? If there is a Rehit that we can't follow, we should at least not belittle it or try to prove it insignificant. It's unbelievable that our own brothers and sisters, belonging to our own Jatha are speaking against the principles of Gurmat that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee promoted all his life. Maharaj Kirpa karan.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Kulbir Singh

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Bana is an amazing rehit but I do feel in today's times only a charrdikala khalsa shud wear bana as it carries lot of responsibility( once we have a dharmi raj and a dharmi society, all sikhs shud wear bana).

i think this is incredibly important, because when a singh in bana does something wrong, EVERYONE knows it was a sikh and sikhs start to get a bad reputation.

i'm not saying don't wear bana. i'm saying why obsess about bana first before more essential rehets (naam, bani, etc) are kept. i can't even count the number of young singhs i see at samagams running around in bana and dumallay, acting like idiots in the parking lot of the gurdwara, using bad language, showing themselves to be complete manmukhs... it makes the bana look bad.

i think manmukhs in gurmukhi dress are far more of a threat than gurmukhs in "manmukhi" dress.

Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji,

The intention of my post was NOT to promote western clothing, or belittle Gurmukhi Banna. It that is your take, then let it be.
The point I was trying to make is we should not blindly belittle or judge anyone just because their clothing does not fit our "image" of what Banna is.

This seems to be a common trend with youngsters who link themselves with the Jatha, Taksal or the Nihangs. There are judging others entirely at a physical level either by the clothing they are wearing on a particular day or in a certain photo or how they don't conform to the norms of their own jathaybandee.

For example, in the photo I posted of Jathedar Bhai Ram Singh Ji. Jathedar Ji is wearing western clothes while visiting Sri Akal Takht Sahib.
I am sure there was no majboori did he have for him to do that, but, who am I to judge him according to the clothes he was wearing on that day. We all know he was a chardhi-kala wala, naam abhyaasi, bibeki gurmukh. Who are we to judge him simply by the clothes he wore?

Bhai Fauja Singh Ji while working as a agricultural inspector often wore western clothes to work, and they were not even mandatory for him.
Do we want to just judge him on the clothes he wore? There was much more to Bhai Fauja Singh Ji than his clothes.

Are we saying, Bhai Fauja Singh Ji and Jathedar Bhai Ram Singh Ji are then promoting western clothing and rejecting Gurmukhi banna?
This type of attitude is troubling. I think there is a big difference in preaching Gurmat and belittling others.


If we going to use Bhai Randhir Singh Ji as a role model, then we need to rememeber that Bhai Sahib promoted not just the banna but the entire concept of Tatt Gurmat and everything that goes with it, Bani and Banna, Rehat and Behat - everything. If he wore the Banna 24/7 - he was engrossed in Naam- Banee 24/7, and followed the principles that are neccesary for a Sikh soldier who wears that Banna.

He did not pick and choose, like we do these days. How many of us can claim to follow those principles as a whole, instead of slicing them up in pieces and judging others on what is convenient to us?