ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥
Home          Santhiya          Gurmat Bodh          Gurmat Literature          Message Board          Multimedia          Contact
Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Daswand vs Daan

Posted by MB Singh 
Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 09:10AM
Recently, we have discussed daswand subject in detail. To make things, further clear, can we distinguish between the two. Is Daan different from Daswand? Should we call Daswand as Daan?
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 09:23AM
Veer Ji I would not consider the two as equal. Daan is to give to any charity, while Dasvand it to given back to Guru Sahib for the propagation of Gurmat Naam.

Guru Sahib out of ritual cleansing, donations, and good deeds the highest deed accounted in Akal Purakhs court is Naam.
ਮਜਨੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਭਾਈ ਦਰਗਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸੇਖੁ ॥


For this reason it would not be far to refer to Daan as Dasvand.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 10:05AM
Veer jee,
A large number of present day sikhs are unable to understand the difference between daan and dasvandh. It was with the dasvandh, that Khalsa army had horses, shastars. It was with the dasvandh that cities like Goindval Sahib, Kiratpur Sahib, Taran taran sahib etc were established.
Sikhs shud learn to use their dasvandh wisely instead of giving to Badal controlled gurdwaras.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 11:23AM
I agree with Bhai Sukhdeep Singh that Daan and Daswandh are two separate things. Daan is something we give as charity and we get rewarded for that but Daswandh is not something we give because it was never ours to begin with. It belongs to Guru Sahib and is a property of Guru Khalsa Panth. It cannot be classified as Daan. Daan is given by a Daata (giver). Who are we to give Daan to Guru Sahib? We are beggars of Guru Sahib and have no standing to give Guru Sahib anything (except for our mind).

Daswandh is something that belongs to Guru Sahib to begin with and we do no charity when we give it. It belongs to Guru Sahib. We are merely temporary custodians of Daswandh. It's true that sometimes in our texts, the term Daan has been used in place of Daswandh but still actual Daan is different from Daswandh. One is charity while the other one is not.

Some, out of ignorance, feel proud when the give Daswandh. They think that they are giving something in charity but nothing is farther from truth. Daswandh is the property of Guru Sahib and this is the reason it cannot be given to non-Sikh organizations and individuals. Guru's wealth is used by Khalsa and that too for the betterment of Khalsa Panth and Gurmat as a whole. How can Daswandh be given to Salvation Army, Red Cross, Heart Foundation or other such good organizations that are run by Manmukhs? Yes, Manmukhs can receive benefit of Daswandh but through the channels of Khalsa Panth e.g. partaking Guru ka Langar, attending Sangat at Gurdwara Sahibaan that are pillars of Gurmat Parchaar, reading Gurmat Books etc.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 02:19PM
so how do you know where the dasvand is going? who do you give it to to make sure it doesn't go into the wrong hands or wind up helping people who aren't sikhs?

if you give to united sikhs, the money could go to help victims of haiti earthquake or hurricane katrina. since those aren't sikhs, you're saying dasvand shouldn't help them, right?

if you give to a trust like pingalwara, the money might go for bribes or lining the pockets of the employees (as we've seen recently, pingalwara has reached this regrettable state.)

and if you give to gurdwara with corrupt management (most of them it seems), you never know what the money will wind up doing.

so how can one give dasvand and be sure it goes to guru sahib? is there a list somewhere of "accepted" places to give this money?
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 03:33PM
WJKKWJKF
bhenji is very right, how can we be sure that dasvandh is being used properly for the benefit of the Khalsa?
committees of gurdwaras even can mishandle the money and sometimes not use it most effectively, especially in india.
the best thing to do with money in terms of dasvandh would be to buy items that can be used like in langar or etc.
in terms of daan, the best approach would be to personally hand over money or items to those in need.
Veer Sukhdeep Singh is also right, as Mahapurkhs say, there are 24 hours and we should do dasvandh of time at least 2 hours a day in bandagi to Guru Ji. (2 hours can be either aside from nitnem, or including)
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 07:33PM
Why are so we attached that thing which we give? Why so must concern of where it goes how it is spent. Again the things is not ours in the first place as Veer Ji mentioned its the property of Guru Sahib. Who can take away Guru Sahibs property- meaning who can Con the great Guru who knows the secrets of all hearts. If one is to steal or misuse Guru Sahibs property then believe that person will eventually give back ( plus interest) what belongs to the Guru. As mere mortals all we can do is a humble ardas and thank Guru Ji for giving us the capacity to give back and fullfill our duty. The whole purpose of dasvand is to destroy the Ego not increase the Ego. Nowadays people give money to the Gurdwara Sahib and expect a receipt and expect their name and the amount they donated to be announced during Ardas. This is manmat.

Dasvand is quite simple we give back Guru Sahib and dont think twice about it. By letting go of attachments to these possessions then ones vand becomes pleasing. As long as we give to a Gurdwara Sahib that follows Gurmat Rehat Maryada i dont see why one needs to worry where the money goes. If there are some other Gurmat Orientated institutions that are doing parchar of Gurmat Naam then there is no harm in giving them . We should not expect receipts or feedbacks when we give to Gurmat Orientated Institutions managed by REhatvan Singhs. If we dont trust Guru Sahibs sangat then in reality we dont trust Guru Sahib.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
June 30, 2010 08:34PM
sukhdeep veerji,

i'm not attached to what i give or who it goes to. it's those who say it must go only to gurdwara/golak who are being attached to where it goes.

if we give in the spirit of gurmat, if we don't have access to detailed information on so-called gurmat organizations... then why not just give directly to those who need it?

if pingalwara (a sikh run organization) has become corrupt, why not give to a less corrupt charity for the mentally/physically ill?

if there is not gurdwara following gurmat rehet maryada where one lives, what should we do, mail it to your gurdwara?

my point isn't my "attachment" to guru sahib's dasvand. my point is that even with so-called "gurmat organiztions" we may never know where that money goes, so why not give dasvand to a reputable group, or simply to the poor themselves.

guru sahib said to treat the mouth of the poor as guru sahib's golak. why do we have to segregate money for gursikhs from money for the needy, regardless of faith?

sure, dasvand is guru sahib's. and guru sahib did immesurable charity for those of every faith. surely following in his footsteps with his dasvand can't be bad...
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 01, 2010 01:10AM
Bhenji has a valid point.
Guru Gobind Singh Sahib boiled the corrupt masandS alive. These masands misused the dasvandh for personal uses.
It is the duty of the sikhs to make sure dasvandh is used for the benefit of the khalsa panth. Dasvandh worth crores of rupees is collected by SGPC but still there is no parchar. The shaheed families are still suffering. No attempt is made to help the poor tribal sikhs like sikligar sikhs and vanjara sikhs.
Dasvandh is used by Sarna and DSGPC to sponser slandering of Sri Dasam Granth.
The solution is :
Give dasvandh TO AN ORGANIZATION RUN BY PUNJ PYARAAS AND WHERE THE PUNJ PYARAAS ARE SELECTED AND NOT ELECTED.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 01, 2010 02:33AM
I don't see where the complication lies. Dasvandh as already explained belongs to Guru Sahib and should be used specifically for Gurmat related parchar. Daan on the other hand can be used over and above Dasvandh to give to charities. There is nothing wrong with giving to other charities but first and foremost we should keep aside monies for Gurmat related activities.

I do believe however that we should do some research into where we give money and not to just any organisation.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 01, 2010 08:32AM
Quote

but first and foremost we should keep aside monies for Gurmat related activities.

my point is, isn't helping the poor a gurmat related activity?

did guru sahib EVER turn away the poor or needy? NO. do you think he just used his pocket money? or did he use the dasvand from the sangat?

WE are guru khalsa panth. why must we go through some corrupt gurdwara committee to use guru sahib's money in the same way we knew he used it? and yes, i have enough ego to think i know better how to use guru sahib's dasvand than some of the corrupt gurdwara management i have seen in india, so please forgive that.

how's this... if i place dasvand in guru sahib's golak in my own home, THEN may i take that money and give it to the needy? after all, i am the sevadar of the gurdwara in my home, correct? or do i need to take the dasvand from guru sahib at my home and give it to guru sahib somewhere else? smiling smiley
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 01, 2010 10:12AM
Quote

how's this... if i place dasvand in guru sahib's golak in my own home, THEN may i take that money and give it to the needy? after all, i am the sevadar of the gurdwara in my home, correct? or do i need to take the dasvand from guru sahib at my home and give it to guru sahib somewhere else?

Interesting way out. Bhein Ji is president of Gurdwara Management Committee at her house. She can manage things as per her talent and SHARDA. That is best. smiling smiley

Otherwise, Unjaan Ji has summarised the things very nicely. Thank you Veer Ji.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 01, 2010 01:21PM
MB Singh Jio,

This keera has little or no knowledge. I have only summarised in words what Gursikhs have already repeated in a previous Dasvandh post.

Regards

Unjaan
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 02, 2010 09:34AM
MB Singh Veer Ji thanks for bringing up this topic again it has given me more time to reflect on the matter.

For a long I have been wandering how the poor persons mouth is GUru Sahib golak? I never understood why the poor persons mouth is so important because in Sikhi ones economic condition is irrelevant . Why would a poor person have the great privilege of being the Gurus Golak and have the sangat serve at their feet. There are many poor people whom are drug abusers, criminals etc it does not make sense as to why the Sadh Sangat came into existence to cater to such people. It seems like ones physical condition is irrelevant in reality we are all poor due to our lack of Naam.


ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਗਰੀਬ ਦੀ ਰਸਨਾ , ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਗੋਲਾਕ ਜਾਣੇ।
Recognize the Gurus Goaak ( treasure box ) as the mouth of a poor GurSIkh.
Bhai Chaupa SIngh


A few weeks ago I posted this rehatnama mentioning that Guru Sahibs golak is the mouth of a poor Sikh. It seems like I have misunderstood this rehatnama. Poor Sikh is not referring to a Sikh whom is physically poor. Last night I was trying to see if Bhai Randhir Singh Ji mentions anything about Dasvant. I noticed in his book Gurmat Bibek , BHai Sahib does mention the concept of Dasvand and I found the section explaining Dasvand to be remarkable. Take a look at what Bhai Sahib says about Guru Sahibs Golak .

ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਗਰੀਬਾਂ ਦਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਲਕ ਹੈ।

The mouth(tongue) of the the poor Gurmukh is the Gurus golak.
BHai Randhir Singh Ji

Bhai Sahib goes on to explain that Gareeb does not refer to someone who is physically poor. Instead Gareeb means someone who is without ego in other words full of humility through surrendering their mind, body, and wealth to Guru Sahib. Bhai Sahib further mentions that the GUrus langar is full of faithful Gareebi Gurmukhs because the sevadars are Bibeki Singhs who jap Naam!

Bhai Sahib also mentions Gurbani pangtis that state through these Gareebi Gurmukhs the whole world is fed. How can this not be? If people stopped doing Naam Abhyiaas their would be no reason for this world to exist. How great would it be to serve those that through their Naam Abyiaas efforts the whole world is being fed. Nature ( Kudrat) worships and serves at the feet of such Gurmukhs ( Brahmgianis). Now there is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that dasvand is best given to Gurmat institutions like langar where Gareebi Gurmukhs reside. There is no harm in compassionately giving charity to those that are physically oppressed or poor, but Dasvand is Guru Sahibs and Guru Sahibs alone. In addition, it would be wrong to say Dasvand is charity to Gareebi Gurmukhs. They are completely careless they dont need any handouts the whole nature serves at their holy feet.

ਜੋ ਜਪਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਸੇਵੇ ਚਰਨ ਨਿਤ ਕਉਲਾ ॥

Maya serves at the feet of those who chant and meditate on the Lord, Har, Har, day and night.
In his book BHai Sahib also mentions the pauri of Guru Sahib

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਗਲ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜਪੈ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੪

In the Company of the God-conscious being, all are saved.|
O Nanak, through the God-conscious being, the whole world meditates on God. ||4||


In his book Bhai Sahib quotes the following pauri


ਸੇਵ ਕਰੀ ਇਨਹੀ ਕੀ ਭਾਵਤ ਅਉਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸੁਹਾਤ ਨ ਜੀ ਕੋ ॥
ਦਾਨ ਦਯੋ ਇਨਹੀ ਕੋ ਭਲੋ ਅਰੁ ਆਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਨ ਨ ਲਾਗਤ ਨੀਕੋ ॥
ਆਗੈ ਫਲੈ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਕੋ ਦਯੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਜਸੁ ਅਉਰ ਦਯੋ ਸਭ ਫੀਕੋ ॥
ਮੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਮੈ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਸਿਰ ਲਉ ਧਨ ਹੈ ਸਭਹੀ ਇਨਹੀ ਕੋ ॥645॥

It pleases me to serve them ( Khalsa). I do not prefer to serve anyone else. It is worthwhile to offer gifts to them whereas it is improper to donate to others.Grants awarded to them will flourish afterwards and will bring glory in the world. Gifts given to others are all of no value. My body, my mind, my wealth and even my head and everything of my house are at their disposal.(3).

and mentions how Sri Dasmesh Pita Ji has given us a model on whom and how Dasvand should be spent.


Now I understand why Guru Sahib says his golak is the mouth of the gareebi, and why Guru Sahib mentions serve the Gareebi Sikhs since he resides in those ego less Sikhs. It make more sense why GUru Sahib says not to give to those that commit Bajjar Kurehit, and to give and serve Gareebi Sikhs ( the Khalsa)


ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਗਰੀਬ ਸਿਖ ਨਾਲ ਨਾਤਾ ਕਰੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੰਢ ਪਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
BHai Chaupa SIngh


Thanks again this post has strengthened my convictions on the purpose of Dasvand and the purpose of life.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 02, 2010 10:18AM
Thank you Veer Ji, for your further research and inputs. Please, an image of those few pages be posted, so as we can read the powerful words of Bhai Sahib Ji.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 02, 2010 11:07AM
Sorry Veer Ji I do not have a scanner. It would literally take me around 10 hours to write this section in Gurmukhi, since I am very slow in writing Gurmukhi. If you have Bhai Sahibs Book - Gurmat Bibek it is in the Rehat Bibek chapter under section 9 -Gurmat Dan ( giving accordance to Gurmat) and section 10 - "Offering oneself- Meaning the offering of ones mind, body and wealth to Guru Sahib is the true giving according to Gurmat"

The section I quoted is in section 10 ਆਪਾ ਅਪਰਣ, ਅਰਥਾਤ, ਤਨ ਮਨ ਧਨ ਵਾਰਨਾ ਅਸਲ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾਨ : of Rehat Bibek. If you do not have this book I strongly recommend you get it. This section is truly wonderful . Bhai Sahib explains clearly that by giving back according Gurmat Maryada ones ego gets destroyed. I think they have this book at Satnam Plaza- Khalsa School in Vancouver. If it is not possible for you to get this book then through Gurus grace I will find a way to get this book to you since I am indebted to you. ( Leyna Deyna Khalsa Dee smiling smiley )

If there is a Gurmukh Gareebi who can provide these writings for SaNGAT to see it would be appreciated.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 07:13AM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Veer Sukhdeep Singh Jio

Daas will scan the pages tonight and post them.

On a side note, some of the things that can be done with Daswandh:

1. Donate to Khalsa Camp
2. Donate to Singhs who are developing Multimedia for Young Khalsa like Vismaad
3. Buy selected gurmat books and donate to local libraries
4. Organise Archery camps/Horse riding training in your local area for Sikh families (some Archery clubs charge to organise camps by providing trainers). These are Khalsa activities and should be justifiable to spend the daswandh.
5. Buy Kirtan CD's and distribute them amongst sangat

Bhul chuk di khima

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 08:19AM
Quote

1. Donate to Khalsa Camp
2. Donate to Singhs who are developing Multimedia for Young Khalsa like Vismaad
3. Buy selected gurmat books and donate to local libraries
4. Organise Archery camps/Horse riding training in your local area for Sikh families (some Archery clubs charge to organise camps by providing trainers). These are Khalsa activities and should be justifiable to spend the daswandh.
5. Buy Kirtan CD's and distribute them amongst sangat

what if monay go to khalsa camp?
what if non-sikhs watch these movies?
what if non-sikhs read these books?
what if monay go to these camps/training?
what if hindus are in sangat and listen to keertan CDs?


any of these wonderful ideas could cause that dasvand to go out of the hands of gareeb gurmukhs.

there is no safe way to be sure your dasvand only goes into the mouth of gurmukhs other than to hand them the cash.

and i have never met a gurmukh who would take a penny from anyone. rather they'd give their own possessions away in a second.

this thread is making dasvand sound nearly impossible. smiling smiley
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 08:52AM
1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> what if monay go to khalsa camp?
> what if non-sikhs watch these movies?
> what if non-sikhs read these books?
> what if monay go to these camps/training?
> what if hindus are in sangat and listen to keertan
> CDs?
>
>

Bhenji

In words of Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji from a post in this thread:

--------
Yes, Manmukhs can receive benefit of Daswandh but through the channels of Khalsa Panth e.g. partaking Guru ka Langar, attending Sangat at Gurdwara Sahibaan that are pillars of Gurmat Parchaar, reading Gurmat Books etc.
---------

So daas assumes that the activities listed by daas are being channled through the Khalsa panth.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 10:57AM
An important aspect of Daswand seems its regular flow and being spontenious in nature. Waiting for finding deserving hands is likely to lose its meaning. It must flow, even if there is some leakage in the channel. My imagination.

Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 12:27PM
Thanks Akali jee

1Kaur Bhen Jee- I think you are missing the point. Guru Sahib says his Golak is the mouth of the Gurmukhs meaning it pleases him most to serve and cater to those imbued in Naam. What better service is the service of Khalsa/Sadh Sangat?


DEGh TEGh FATEH!
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 05, 2010 01:36PM
I am not against helping poor. Its good to help them but we shud also realize that just because someone is poor, does not mean that person is free of trishna, or desires, or 5 chor.
Sikhs in Delhi have been feeding poor people for decades. Thousands of people get free food at Gurdwara banga sahib, Sees Ganj Sahib and other gurdwaras. But in 84, many of these poor people due to greed, used the oppurtunity to do looting and stealing of sikh houses. Few carats of gold was all they needed.
Real gareebi comes from Naam. Without Naam , THERE IS NO GAREEBI.
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 13, 2010 03:00PM
i just think that limiting our dasvand to only gursikhs is defeating the purpose..

theres no way to know that our money will be used for the same good that we intend it to, as 1kaur bhainji's pointed out several times..
and if the dasvand will be put to good use in the hands of poor/homeless/hungry nonsikhs
who's to say that if that dasvand was wasted?
like 1kaur bhainji said before, if guru ji wldn't turn away the poor/homeless/hungry
whether they're sikhs or not, then who are we to pick and choose who needs the dasvand more?

plz correct me if i'm wrong, but if our desire is to just get ppl fed, and clothed, would guru mahraj ji
dismiss it? versus, giving dasvand to a corrupt organization..

i think in the end of it all, give the dasvand to someone you know uses the money directly for a good use.
or use the dasvand on buying things for the gurdwara.. rumaley, another palki sahib, another palang?
chaur sahibs, buying cleaning supplies for the gurdwara and the sevadaars...
doesn't that count?

bhul chuk di maafi

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh
Re: Daswand vs Daan
July 13, 2010 06:58PM
buy battay and shastar and cholay, and then give them out to sangat.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login