Question for bibekis

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh jeeo!

Well I'm not bibeki (yet),but just want to ask the bibekis a question. Basically there are some products which people don't expect are not acceptable, eg. sugar which has been filtered through bone char. I don't think most people would think to check about their sugar.There are also things like vanilla flavouring which contain alcohol, which I think most would not suspect.
I was wondering if bibekis readily eat bibek food, take parshad as an example, without checking whether the sugar used has come from the correct source, knowing that it is possible it may not have occured to the Gursikh making it to check? What is the stand on this issue?

Most white sugars i know of in the UK are not suitable. However there a few brands which are, i rang them to find out.But i always use brown sugar it's healthier and safer and says on the packerts suitable for vegans.

I think sugar in India is suitable to consume, maybe other Gursikhs can share the process of how sugar is made in India by Singhs and what the Puratan Gursikhs think.

brown sugar is just white sugar mixed with molasses, so it's not really safe either unless marked so. in the US we don't have vegetarian labeling, so i wouldn't risk it.

if you buy organic evaporated cane juice (turbinado sugar), it's always safe. beet sugar is safe too.

the organic sugars give a sublime taste to the kara prashad... this must be how sugar was made in guru sahib's time. no big factories to make it artificially white.

Thank you for providing that info, but what I meant to ask was in regards to eating food prepared by ANOTHER gursikh. I mean in the case where one is offered food made by a Gursikh and say that there are some items in that which may or may not be suitable depending on brand (eg sugar in degh) and which many Gursikhs would not be aware of the need to check is it acceptable to simply eat the food without first asking the Gursikh if they had checked the suitability of the ingredients? Or is it enough just to say that one is eating from a Gursikh and according to bibek standards have fulfilled the requirements and there is no more need to check?

you can ask them, it shouldn't be a problem. there are some milk brands with animal ingredients, when paneer or dahi is used in langar, i check to see that they're using a "safe" brand of milk. i imagine a gursikh would be happy if you educated them (politely) on hidden animal products in sugar, milk, etc.

what's the worst that can happen? they'll think you're overly cautions about keeping bibek? there's nothing wrong in that.

true i suppose checking is not really that big a deal.. on a side note I was just wondering what most gursikhs actually feel about the issue of bone char filtered sugar? I did a quick search on a few forums and it appeared some Gursikhs did not see it to be a problem.

i personally don't use it, but i didn't use it before i even knew what bibek was. from a personal standpoint, i just think the idea of it is disgusting. the meat industry (and that's what it is, an industry!) has really disgusting practices that are horrific to the animals as well as disgusting and unhealthy to the consumer. if you have time, read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair about how meat is produced and all of the disgusting things that go into it.
note: it's a difficult read if you have compassion for animals, which i imagine every singh does!

on a personal note, i started to explore a vegetarian diet before i even knew about sikhi, probably 10 years back after reading a book by the bhuddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh. he wrote that it is essential to stop eating animal products in order to have a peaceful life. his teaching is that when an animal is slaughtered, it produces fear and anxiety chemicals/hormones which flood the body. so when you consume that animal, you're literally consuming it's fear. and that fear goes right into you.
i think this also is inline with the hindu idea of rajas gun... khatris (warrior class) used to do chhatka, which is clearly an aggressive act. eating the flesh of an animal killed in such an aggressive way makes the one who eats it more aggressive. which is fine if you want to be stuck in rajas gun for your whole life... but sikhi teaches us to go beyond the three guns, so clearly it's wrong for sikhs.


anyway, sorry for the rant, hope i didn't go too far off topic!

I want to start living on only fruits and milk, but I am already 93% bones and will vanish if I quit roti, HAHA! So now, someone who is a hopeless (and lazy) cook and wishes to start keeping Bibek, bit by bit in small steps, oh ki karey?

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I want to start living on only fruits and milk, but I am already 93% bones and will vanish if I quit roti, HAHA! So now, someone who is a hopeless (and lazy) cook and wishes to start keeping Bibek, bit by bit in small steps, oh ki karey?

ardaas, ardaas, ardaas!

and learn to cook! go practice in the langar of the gurdwara, the other sevadars will surely teach you how. or ask Manjula Aunty, if you can't cook by direction, maybe you can cook by video!
[www.manjulaskitchen.com]

if all else fails, get married. did you know that when shaheed bhai fauja singh jee and bibi amarjit kaur jee were discussing marriage, bibi jee said that she cannot cook. bhai sahib said, that's ok, he already cooked his own meals and now he would cook hers too.

1kaur Wrote:
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> if all else fails, get married.


So you are bent on authorizing my warrant for life sentence!

I just want to clarify that I am amritdhari and 100% vegetarian, why I asked was because apparently none of the bone char enters the sugar, and also the bones are supposed to be from animals that died naturally (not sure how true this second point is).

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Patshae used in Amrit Sanchars are made of white sugar. Don't know of any Patshae that come from brown sugar (would be brown then right)?



P.S. Not all sugars are cane sugar. Supposedly, beet sugar is naturally white and can be used just like cane sugar. Not that the sugar companies advertise when they use beet sugar.

ok, this thread has made me do some research...

first, it looks like all of the major sugar refineries in india do use bone char. however, because it's used as a filtering agent and the end product does not contain any animal product, it is considered vegetarian (green dot).

however, jews and muslims both consider sugar processed with bone char to be haram, so if you find halal sugar in india, or kosher sugar in the west, it's probably better than the non-halal variety. which is kind of strange, but whatever.

there was also a bit in the news last year around dushera about patasa factories where the patasa were made in unhygienic conditions and were put on dirty floors and walked over by the employees etc... so i hope the ones we use for amrit sanchar are made by singhs!
(although personally i think bani can purify anything, so no matter what you put in the bata at the beginning, at the end, it will be amrit)

also, bone char has been used in the UK to filter municipal water (the stuff you get from the tap!) so i don't even know what to say about that... dig your own well?

oh, and that silver foil you get in india on some sweets (varak)... besides being totally not bibek, it's also manufactured using the intestine of cows. so don't eat that either.


source: various jain and hari krisna websites. those folks are almost as strict as we are.

In regards to the points about patashe, they are fairly easy to make yourself. A singh once showed me how to make them, and the only ingredients are sugar and water, and heat of course. I am not good at making them though, so I can't really put up a recipe. If anyone else knows how, please do share. Im pretty sure that Bhai Kulbir Singh's Singhni makes really good patashe, so, karo kirpa mata jee, post the recipe.

Yes, Harkiran Kaur makes good pataase. There really is not a recipe for it. It is basically water and sugar. It's more of a technique than recipe.

Kulbir Singh

what a wonderful idea! we should implement this in amrit sanchar... pataase must be made by bibekee singh/singhee. obviously mata sahib kaur would have made her own, right?

thanks!

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGUURU JI KI FATEH

Yes, please share recipe and technique...Youtube is your (and my) friend!!! >< This came up on another forum before, but no recipe was provided.

I have serious suspicions that Patashae being used at many Amrit Sanchars are imported from India and are made commercially - have seen the little bags..

Also, on the topic of brown sugar - in the West Coast region of the U.S., we have this brand of sugar which is unrefined brown sugar called Zulka. It seems that it is not filtered - thus the light brown color. This is converse to the "brown sugars" where they mix regular white sugar with molasses to get "browned" sugar. In case anyone was interested.

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Also, on the topic of brown sugar - in the West Coast region of the U.S., we have this brand of sugar which is unrefined brown sugar called Zulka. It seems that it is not filtered - thus the light brown color. This is converse to the "brown sugars" where they mix regular white sugar with molasses to get "browned" sugar. In case anyone was interested.

so to clarify, there are several different types of sugars (as if this wasn't all confusing enough!)

refined white sugar- non veg.
powdered or confectioner's sugar - non-veg. simply pulverized white sugar. you can make your own by grinding veg sugars.
regular brown sugar (light and dark)- non-veg. brown sugar is just regular refined white sugar mixed with molasses.
organic white/brown sugar- pure veg. since they can't be sure of the source of the animal bones (many come from carcasses in foreign countries), they don't use it.
evaporated cane juice (unrefined sugar- lighter than brown sugar, kind of tan)- pure veg. sugar cane juice is simply dried and allowed to crystallize, so it's not processed at all. in europe it's called "unrefined sugar".
turbinado or "raw" sugar- same as above
gur/jaggery- pure veg.
beet sugar- pure veg. beet sugar is a white refined sugar that does not need to be filtered.

pure veg sugar alternatives- honey, brown rice syrup, agave nectar, maple sugar, maple syrup.