Below is a response to Bhai Harmanjit Singh Akali who raised a number of issues with respect to AKJ, Taksal and other organizations and the differences between them. This email was written to another Singh but Daas is taking liberty of responding to these questions. By citing these differences Akali jee is trying to justify his opposition with Dasam Granth. Debate on the authenticity of Dasam Granth will not be done here.
Harmanjit Singh Akali jee,
Originally the subject of discussion was Dasam Granth but now AKJ and Nihungs are being discussed. You have raised many questions in your post and I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge.
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Do you know the overall general concept of God? It is written in mool mantar. Please understand it. You will learn something new and oppose DG. What is the saroop of your Waheguru? Four arms, red toungue, snakes around neck, anklets, bells, etc.? Is that the saroop of your Waheguru? I am sorry but Gurbani doesn't consider some weird looking creatures to be God.---------
Remember that Gurbani talks about Nirgun and Sargun saroop of Vaheguru. The ultimate saroop of Vaheguru is Nirgun and this is the saroop that is explained in the Mool Mantra. But this does not mean that in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, his Sargun Saroop is not discussed. Please ponder upon the following pankitis from Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee’s baani:
ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ ॥ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਨਕ ਜਿਨ ਲੰਮੜੇ ਵਾਲਾ ॥ ਕੰਚਨ ਕਾਇਆ ਸੁਇਨੇ ਕੀ ਢਾਲਾ ॥
Here Vaheguru has been shown to have a beautiful nose and long hair. Vaheguru jee’s body has been shown to be beautiful like gold.
In the pankiti below, Vaheguru’s gait (chaal) has been said to be pleasant and his talk to be sweet like nightingale and has been called an embodiment of youth (Taral jawaani).
ਤੇਰੀ ਚਾਲ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ਮਧੁਰਾੜੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕੁਹਕਨਿ ਕੋਕਿਲਾ ਤਰਲ ਜੁਆਣੀ ॥
What is Sargun Saroop of Vaheguru? This too is explained in Siri Anand Sahib:
ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ॥
This world that is his creation is also his Sargun Saroop. Sargun means one that has Traigunni worldly attributes. Nirgun is that saroop that is beyond the worldly attributes and therefore is Nirgun i.e. without any worldly qualities.
According to Bhagat Naamdev jee, when he called upon Vaheguru, the saroop of Vaheguru that came to his rescue was not the saroop listed in Mool Mantra but the saroop that was similar to Vishnu. He came seated on Garuda. Why? Because this is the saroop of Vaheguru that Bhagat jee knew at that time. Later when Bhagat jee came into contact with Guru Sahib, he realized the Nirgun Saroop. Please ponder upon the pankiti below:
ਪਾਖੰਤਣ ਬਾਜ ਬਜਾਇਲਾ ॥ ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਇਲਾ ॥੧੫॥
ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥ ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੧੬॥
Does the God of Mool Mantra come on Garuda?
Let’s talk about the Narsingha roop that God created from his jyot. Gurbani clearly says that “ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦੁ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥“
This form that Vaheguru manifested from his jyot was not a pleasant form. It was extremely scary and the Earth shook when Narsingha came to kill Harnaksha. Hopefully this settles the issue of why Siri Dasmesh jee has sometimes described the warrior saroop of Vaheguru in Dasam Granth.
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You said we challenged raagi meaning you were / are ready to debate raagi. That is cool and dandy. How about debating other anti-DG Sikhs here in Toronto? Nihungs who do bajjar kurehits and parkash third party books and call AKJs as naasticks are members of Panth now and opponents of Dasam Granth aren't? Double standards eh?-------------
Prof Darshan Singh has been declared Tankhaiya from Siri Akal Takhat Sahib and Nihungs are not. So we are not going to go around saying that they are not part of Panth just as we don’t say Missionaries are not part of the Panth. When Santa Singh was excommunicated from Panth, all Singhs including AKJ supported this move and today they are supporting the excommunication of Prof Darshan Singh.
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Since Prof. Darshan Singh didn't show up at damdama sahib, why didn't AKJ, Nihungs, taksal and other deras try to solve any other panthic issues? They could have solve the keski or kes issue there. No? They couldn't solve an issue of two words and yet were out to solve issue of a granth of 1428 pages?---------
This is because Singhs gathered there to give answers to Prof Darshan Singh for his anti-Dasam Granth rhetoric. If they had gathered to solve the Keski or Moolmantra issue they would have done the same.
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They could have worked on solving the following issues:
1) Kes or keski
2) Raagmala or not?
3) Cannabis or not?
4) Up to Gurparsaad or Hoasee Bhee sach?
5) Parvan or bhog?
6) Red and green allowed or not?
7) Read lambee chaupai or 25 stanzas only?
8) Jot, nareeal, etc. during Akahnd Paath or not?
9) Okay to desecrate old historical artificats and buildings on name of kar seva or not?---------------
The above listed issues are unfortunate and have caused severe division in our Panth. They caused damage during the 1980s when the Sikhs were fighting for freedom. But this division or issues of contention within Panth do not justify another division and that too at this time when we are fighting for survival.
Another point to note is that most of the above issues are not a big deal. These are trivial issues. Below they are discussed one by one.
When AKJ says Keski as Kakaar, it does not replace it with Kesh. Kesh too remain as they are listed in the 4 Bajjar Kurehits. Keski is just on top of the SGPC mandated rehit maryada. It does not violate the maryada. It’s just an addition. But when you raise the Dasam Granth issue, you want to totally eliminate a rich tradition of Khalsa.
Raagmala issue is big but it has been going on for about 150 years and Panth has given a resolution on this – Let the bhog of paath be as per Sathanak Reeti. This issue is a dead issue at this time and is not causing any major friction in Panth.
About Cannabis, the whole Panth is united including many Nihung Dals. This is not a major issue at all. No one is going hyper over trying to declare Bhang legal in Sikhi. It’s a dead issue.
Red and Green colour issue too is a dead issue and also a trivial one. Singhs who know Gurmat avoid these colours and if someone wears these colours, no one raises a hue and cry.
Regarding degh Parvaan hove or Bhog lavo, what’s the big deal and who is raising any hue and cry over this issue? Don’t list issues just for the sake of it.
Lambi Chaupai or 25 pauris along with two versions of Mool Mantra is not a big issue either. If someone does longer Mool Mantra, so what? I personally believe Mool Mantra till Gurprasaad but have no problem if someone reads it till ‘Hosi bhee Sach’. No one is raising these issues and there is no fight going on between Singhs over these trivial issues. You can see that Singhs are all united despite these issues.
Same thing is true with nareal or jot etc. We don’t keep these items during Siri Akhand Paath Sahib but if some Gursikh wants to keep it, so be it. These are very trivial things.
Now let’s talk about Dasam Granth issue. This issue is a major one because if we discredit Dasam Granth, then we also take away 300 years of Amrit Sinchaar tradition. All Panth is united on the 5 baanis read during Amrit Sinchaar. If this maryada is changed, Panth will be destroyed. We know for sure that this maryada is correct. How? Just look at the glorious history of Khalsa over the last 300 years. It is all because they took Khande Pahul.
Think about it. When does the Dasam Granth issue get heated? When someone from anti-Dasam Granth lobby stirs this issue. What is the pressing need for them to raise this issue at this time? What is the emergency?
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How are my questions meaningless? Which panthic jathebandia believe in Dasam Granth? Vehlaa lafangaa saadh laanaa? Other group is nihungs. Whoever wants to get away from police becomes a nihung. Biggest example is poohlaa. There was one in my villge too and was discussed in the videos you claimed to have seen.----------
Would you classify Bhai Vir Singh, Dr Pyara Singh Padam, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Sant Gurbachan Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Sirdar Kapur Singh as “Vehla Lafanga Saadh Laana”? Mere Veer, show some respect for your fellow Gursikhs and your Bazurgs (elder Gursikhs). It is not Gurmat to resort to such name calling.
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So all the Gurbani quotes that were given in videos are wrong and poet Shyam's Dasam Granth is right?---------
What is the problem with Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee using a pen name different from his own name? So many poets do this. Names of our 5 Guru Sahibaan who wrote baani were different from “Guru Nanak”, yet they used the pen name of “Nanak”. Sheikh Ibrahim who was also called Farid Sani used the pen name ‘Farid’ to write baani, even though his name was not Farid. All poets use different pen names.
If you say that why did Guru Sahib use more than one pen name, then please note that many poets use more than one pen name. Mirza Ghalib originally used “Asad” as his pen name but later changed his pen name to Ghalib.
Also note that these pen names are used by Guru Sahib only when composing literary compositions. You don’t see these pen names in Siri Akal Ustat, Siri Jaap Sahib, Siri Shabad Hazare, 33 Savaie, and Benti Chaupai.
Below I will humbly attempt to answer your questions:
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1) Akaal Takht marayda say to say parvan hove, do you say parvan hove or laavo bhog?-----------
As explained above, it is a trivial issue. What difference does it make what you say. Is there a hukam from Siri Akal Takhat Sahib to not use ‘bhog lave”? This issue is so trivial that most people don’t even know it’s an issue.
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2) Do you ever wonder why maryada said to only read Chaupai up to 25 stanzas?-----------
Lambi Chaupai or 25 pauris along with two versions of Mool Mantra is not a big issue either. If someone does longer Mool Mantra, so what? I personally believe Mool Mantra till Gurprasaad but have no problem if someone reads it till ‘Hosi bhee Sach’. No one is raising these issues and there is no fight going on between Singhs over these trivial issues. You can see that Singhs are all united despite these issues.
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3) Do you accept Kes as Kakkar or Keski?-----------
When AKJ says Keski as Kakaar, it does not replace it with Kesh. Kesh too remain as they are listed in the 4 Bajjar Kurehits. Keski is just on top of the SGPC mandated rehit maryada. It does not violate the maryada. It’s just an addition. AKJ accepts Keski as Kakaar based on historical evidence from Bhat Vahees. Most Singhs belonging to Taksal and other Panthik organizations, promote the use of Keski for women as well as men. The only difference is that they don’t call it a Kakaar. We have no issues on this. We are united despite this small difference.
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4) Do you also transfer naam by giving hugs? If yes, show me where in Akaal takht marayda.------------
No one transfers Naam through hugs. It is to make Naam driR and to ensure that the method or vidhi of Naam is fully understood. Show me in Siri Akal Takhat Sahib maryada where it prohibits Singhs from hugging other Singhs while japping Naam.
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5) Do AKJs do Amrit Sanchars according to Akaal Takht maryada? If not, why should Prof. come to discuss something with them?-----------
90% maryada is same. Same baanis are read, same baana for Punj Pyare, same Sarblohi Khanda Baata, same order of reading baanis. Please note that the differences are not significant or anti-Gurmat, otherwise, AKJ too would have been summoned to Siri Akal Takhat Sahib as Prof Darshan Singh has been. All panthik organizations have minor differences in Amrit Sinchaar maryada. So what?
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6) Do AKJ give out copies of Akaal Takht maryada at Amrit Sanchars? If not, why should Darshan Singh come to discuss DG with them?-------------
Punj Pyare don’t give out copies of maryada but as per tradition they orally impart the Rehit Maryada to new amritdharis.
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7) If AKJs can do parchar that Keski is kakkar and not kes, they can give pahul with different maryada, why can't Jeonwala say that Pahul should be prepared by only reading Gurbani?-----------
Because the Keski/Kes difference is trivial. Keski does not replace Kes but Jeonwala on the other hand is asking Punj Pyare to replace and change Amrit Sinchaar baanis. This is a very big issue. A person who has not even become a Sikh yet, cannot tell Punj Pyare what to do.
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8) What moral do we get from Chariter 68?-----------
The moral of this story is that if you deceive your best friend and take his wife through deceit and cleverness, you will be punished. The son of barber took his friend’s wife by deceit / force and got killed for this. Please realize that this story has been dramatized as was the case with all stories in those days. Just refer to the famous story collection written by Soma – Kathasaritsagara. It’s got similar stories but the difference is that these stories are not necessarily moral-giving as Charitropakhyan is. Another thing is that you should not look at these stories in isolation. Sometimes a group of stories give one moral.
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9) Since you said letter is fake, how come no one said it is fake until Lamba came along?-------------
This is not an acceptable answer. Please prove that it is authentic. It’s not about Lamba Sahib. It’s about the fake letter.
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9) Could you please tell me which granth is for face and which is for bavasiir?
10) How about sarabloh? What is that for? Face or bavasiir?-----------
I don’t know what you mean here.
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11) You people can question Raagmaalaa, question kakars and be Sikhs while normal Sikhs can't even question third party content like Dasam Granth?-------------
Ragmala is a settled issue for now. Siri Akal Takhat Sahib has given its verdict as to read it or not read it as per Sathanik Reeti. Kakaars issue as written above is not a major issue. Dasam Granth issue is a major one because it affects the Amrit Sinchaar maryada.
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12) Is Guru Granth Sahib Ji sampooran Guru? If yes, then you got the answer. If no, then I can't help you.--------
It is sampooran Granth. It is sampooran Guru. No doubt. My only concern is that using this argument, some people go as far as saying that since Kakaars are not mentioned in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, we should not wear them. None of the Khalsa Rehit maryada is written in Siri Guru jee. So are we to conclude that Khalsa Rehit is not required?
In the end, I request you mere Veer to not cause disunity in our Panth by unnecessarily raising the Dasam Granth issue. Let’s all work on the chardi Kala of Panth and when Panth gets settled, these issues can be dealt with then. Now’s not a good time to cause disunity in Panth by raising such issues.
Bhul chuk dee maafi jee.
Kulbir Singh
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਬਚਨਕਮਾਵਣੇਸਚਾਏਹੁਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥